Schools closed until March/April? (part 4) **Mod warning in OP 22/01**

MerlinSouthDub

Smacruairi wrote: »

Schools are closed all across Europe and beyond and will stay that way until the numbers drop.

Schools are open in France, Italy and Spain, for example. Are those countries not in Europe?

Smacruairi

MerlinSouthDub wrote: »

Schools are open in France, Italy and Spain, for example. Are those countries not in Europe?

Did I say all schools are closed?

MerlinSouthDub

Smacruairi wrote: »

Did I say all schools are closed?

You said "closed all across Europe". But schools are closed in some parts of Europe, not "all across Europe".

penny piper

Does anyone think that it's time Norma Foley decided upon what will happen regarding the LC this year? It seems highly unfair to both students/teachers to not come up with some solution asap.......Also
considering that the new varient of coronavirus is so infectious, surely, schools will not return until atleast the mid term february break? (even if that)......health & safety reasons....what about contact tracing in schools will this be no longer used either?

Smacruairi

If you want to pick away at words, fine, be my guest.

khalessi

penny piper wrote: »

Does anyone think that it's time Norma Foley decided upon what will happen regarding the LC this year? It seems highly unfair to both students/teachers to not come up with some solution asap.......Also
considering that the new varient of coronavirus is so infectious, surely, schools will not return until atleast the mid term february break? (even if that)......health & safety reasons....what about contact tracing in schools will this be no longer used either?

I think they wil try to push for reopening 1st of Feb but doubt it will happen.

MerlinSouthDub

Smacruairi wrote: »

If you want to pick away at words, fine, be my guest.

Your post gave the impression that schools were closed everywhere, not picking at words, just giving the complete picture.

khalessi

MerlinSouthDub wrote: »

Your post gave the impression that schools were closed everywhere, not picking at words, just giving the complete picture.

No, you interpreted that way but not everyone did.

MerlinSouthDub

khalessi wrote: »

No, you interpreted that way but not everyone did.

If I interpreted it that way, then others might also. We've cleared it up now, which is great.

SAMTALK

This is like being in school !!

Lillyfae

Smacruairi wrote: »

https://twitter.com/DrZoeHyde/status/1336612124835995648?s=20

This should contain all the context you need. Yet another study.

It doesn’t though because it’s a Twitter post. Where is the actual reference? Not to mention the post is from the 9th of December, by which time the UK variant had already been detected.

By the way, while some schools are closed in Europe, they are open for practical work, and for the children of front line workers, including teachers.

downthemiddle

hurler32 wrote: »

Teachers and leaving cert students should be prioritised in the vaccine roll out .No
Would teachers try and prevent this happening to get more time off would be a concern though Those pesky teachers think of everything or would their union be looking for a pay rise for getting the vaccine ? Great idea!!!

.

Smacruairi

Lillyfae wrote: »

It doesn’t though because it’s a Twitter post. Where is the actual reference? Not to mention the post is from the 9th of December, by which time the UK variant had already been detected.

By the way, while some schools are closed in Europe, they are open for practical work, and for the children of front line workers, including teachers.

Did you read the thread?
https://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/full/10.5694/mja2.50823
There was the paper cited originally and she is updating it to reflect newer research? You might read the paper when you get a chance if you don't want the twitter distillation. It actually goes all the way back to before October I think. Fairly detailed. Why is that not enough for you, you might share your thoughts.

She references pieces from Brazil and Italy. I stopped looking at her notes after that as she seemed very very knowledgeable on the subject. You might tell me where you find flaws in her method when you get a chance.

JimmyVik

MerlinSouthDub wrote: »

Your post gave the impression that schools were closed everywhere, not picking at words, just giving the complete picture.

Not to me it didnt.

Crocodile Booze

MerlinSouthDub wrote: »

Schools are open in France, Italy and Spain, for example. Are those countries not in Europe?

So you want schools open?

Do you follow the news at all?

Look I hate having my kids at home as much as the next person but ......

MerlinSouthDub

Crocodile Booze wrote: »

So you want schools open?

Do you follow the news at all?

Look I hate having my kids at home as much as the next person but ......

No, I don't want schools to open here until virus numbers are under control again and hospitals are not under pressure.

Lillyfae

Smacruairi wrote: »

Did you read the thread?
https://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/full/10.5694/mja2.50823
There was the paper cited and she is updating it to reflect newer research? You might read the paper when you get a chance if you don't want the twitter distillation. It actually goes all the way back to before October I think. Fairly detailed.

She references pieces from Brazil and Italy. I stopped looking at her notes after that as she seemed very very knowledgeable on the subject. You might tell me where you find flaws in her method when you get a chance.

I'm simply urging you to look for the reference and not screengrabs. By the way, you might want to read her study yourself:

Schools are clearly neither inherently safe nor unsafe. The risk associated with these settings depends on the level of community transmission and must be continuously evaluated. Schools must not remain open for face‐to‐face teaching in the setting of substantial community transmission. In regions where community transmission is low, risk reduction strategies should be implemented in schools as a matter of urgency. Comprehensive guidelines have been developed (Box),43 but at a minimum, interventions should include the wearing of face masks by staff and students, increasing ventilation and indoor air quality, and the regular disinfection of shared surfaces.

Smacruairi

Lillyfae wrote: »

I'm simply urging you to look for the reference and not screengrabs. By the way, you might want to read her study yourself:

I didn't give you a screen grab, I gave you a link to a thread to read, and it seemed that you didn't do it.
I read the synopsis and her updates, thanks,id appreciate it if you didn't try to imply I didn't.


"Children therefore have the potential to play a role in community transmission, particularly given the large number of contacts children have in close contact settings such as childcare centres and schools. In a contact tracing study comprising 5706 index cases and 59 073 contacts in South Korea, non‐household contacts of child index cases were as likely to be infected as contacts of young adult index cases (attack rate, 1.0% v 1.1%)."

So while we are in high levels of lockdown, the evidence supports schools closed as kids can drive the disease back to the community. I think we can draw a line under that one, Lillyfae.

Stateofyou

average_runner wrote: »

Kids haven't be proven to be spreaders of it at the moment.



We first got to look after people who are contact with other adults via work first.



What is Europe doing first ? Are we doing it different to them?

I think that's an untrue statement. Of course children are spreaders. Often asymptomatically. Not sure if you meant it more along the lines of schools/children "aren't drivers" of spread?

Lillyfae

Smacruairi wrote: »

I didn't give you a screen grab, I gave you a link to a thread to read, and it seemed that you didn't do it.
I read the synopsis and her updates, thanks.


"Children therefore have the potential to play a role in community transmission, particularly given the large number of contacts children have in close contact settings such as childcare centres and schools. In a contact tracing study comprising 5706 index cases and 59 073 contacts in South Korea, non‐household contacts of child index cases were as likely to be infected as contacts of young adult index cases (attack rate, 1.0% v 1.1%)."

So while we are in high levels of lockdown, the evidence supports schools closed as kids can drive the disease back to the community. I think we can draw a line under that one, Lillyfae.

I don't have a Twitter account, a Twitter thread has the potential to be full of crazies and people pretending to be more knowledgeable than they actually are.

And I'm actually in agreement with you. The numbers in Ireland are out of control and schools can't be opened until the community numbers are under control, which because of the opening of gastropubs and restaurants at SUCH an opportune time is now not likely to happen until the vaccine starts making a difference. I just don't buy into the conspiracy theories bandied about such as hiding numbers in school settings and purposely not contact tracing because childcare. Obviously if childcare was the priority then pubs wouldn't have opened.

Stateofyou

hurler32 wrote: »

Teachers and leaving cert students should be prioritised in the vaccine roll out .
Would teachers try and prevent this happening to get more time off would be a concern though or would their union be looking for a pay rise for getting the vaccine ?

Who's getting more time off? All the teachers here are flat out and even helping boards people on the side and over pm. My own kids teachers are doing live videos, recording videos, making phone calls, returning emails, returning notes from the children, correcting work, sending translations, and I'm sure IT help and lesson planning. GTFOH.

12 January 2021

Parents of students receiving remote learning

Dear Parent/Guardian

I hope that you and your families are keeping safe and well at this difficult time.

As you know, from yesterday Monday 11 January, schools will be closed to students and all students at primary and post-primary level will now move to a programme of remote learning.

While NPHET is of the view that schools remain safe environments, the decision to close schools was taken in order to minimise mobility of the entire population and to support the suppression of the Covid-19 virus in the community. This will allow everyone to reduce their contacts, with a view to reducing the spread of the virus and a swift return to school for all.

Remote Learning during this period

Following the initial period of school closure last year, the Department has engaged with the education partners to revise remote teaching and learning guidance. This was agreed with all stakeholders last year and guidance for primary and post-primary schools was subsequently published online in October and December 2020 respectively.

As such, during this time, all teachers, including special education teachers (SETs), are required to continue to support teaching and learning for all pupils/students in their class/subject group or on their caseload.

Schools have been advised of the need to ensure appropriate provision and support for pupils/students during this time. Every school has been advised of the need to develop a contingency plan for remote learning that is appropriate to children’s different ages and stages, and has been provided with guidance on best practice. The guidance provided to schools notes that it is crucially important that the learning of all pupils/students, especially those with special educational needs and those at risk of educational disadvantage and/or early school leaving, are supported at this time. These guidelines are listed at the end of this letter.

Schools have been provided with funding as part of the Digital Strategy for Schools. In 2020 funding totaling €100m in 2020 was provided to schools and schools have been advised to prioritise supporting the purchase of devices for students who may not have access to devices for remote learning. The School Support services that are funded by the Department have developed a suite of materials to assist teachers in using an online platform to support teaching, learning and assessment. Furthermore, there is a range of supports available to schools from the National Council for Special Education (NCSE), the National Council for Curriculum and Assessment, Junior Cycle for Teachers, An Chomhairle um Oideachas Gaeltachta agus Gaelscoilaíochta, National Educational Psychological Service, Education Centres and the Centre for School Leadership.

There has been an excellent take up by teachers throughout the country of training and supports provided in this area, and I know that schools will do their utmost in these difficult circumstances to provide the best possible experience for students. Schools will contact parents directly with their plans and arrangements for remote learning.

The Inspectorate of the Department will continue to offer an advisory service to schools to support the delivery of remote learning and to provide assistance to school leaders in particular. The Inspectorate will also evaluate and report on the quality of educational provision for students at this time.

Returning to in-person learning for all schools
The Department is conscious that closing schools has hugely adverse consequences at individual, family and societal level. For children, it impacts on wellbeing, learning, on social and emotional development.

School closure has significant impacts on children with special educational needs. School closure also heightens student anxiety, particularly for the Leaving Certificate cohort, in relation to state examinations.

The Government decision included provision that in-person learning would be maintained for two specific cohorts from Monday 11, pupils/ students attending special schools and classes and final year Leaving Certificate students. Despite the confirmation by Public Health that schools remain safe, unfortunately it has not proved possible to get agreement to provide in-person learning for these two groups. In these circumstance there is no alternative but to pause the limited reopening and continue engagement with partners. I will keep parents of these students updated on this engagement.

The latest public health advice received by Government is available here. It clearly outlines that schools are safe environments, and that the protective measures and the considerable supports put in place to support schools have been successful.

Where there have been cases in schools, the enhanced school teams put in place by Public Health and the Department have worked effectively to support schools, and the level of transmission in schools has been low. Because of this, we continue to aim to return all students to in-person learning as soon as it is possible to do so.



Supports and wellbeing
It is important that students experience continuity of learning during this period to the extent that is possible for your family, bearing in mind your child’s age and stage. Research conducted in Ireland concluded that while online learning worked for some students during the period of school closure, it did not replicate the in-school learning experience – this was also the experience internationally.

We all know that it can be difficult to achieve maximum interaction with remote learning, with many competing demands and restrictions. The best advice is that you provide the support that is possible for your family to your child and that you prioritise your child’s and your own wellbeing, balancing that with supporting learning, during this period.

Links to some supports available are provided below.

I wish you and your family all the very best at this time, and hope to communicate soon with you on a safe return to in-person learning for all.



Regards,



______________________________
Norma Foley TD
Minister for Education



Id say Ms Fooley is fully intending on reopening our "safe environments" come feb 1st

khalessi

TheTorment wrote: »

12 January 202

Id say Ms Fooley is fully intending on reopening our "safe environments" come feb 1st

The woman is delusional

History Queen

khalessi wrote: »

The woman is delusional

I have to say I hope schools are opened as soon as it is safe to do so. And I've no problem with a phased reopening. It doesn't have to be all or nothing, but the Department are going to have to think outside the box.

wirelessdude01

TheTorment wrote: »

12 January 2021

Parents of students receiving remote learning

Dear Parent/Guardian

I hope that you and your families are keeping safe and well at this difficult time.

As you know, from yesterday Monday 11 January, schools will be closed to students and all students at primary and post-primary level will now move to a programme of remote learning.

While NPHET is of the view that schools remain safe environments, the decision to close schools was taken in order to minimise mobility of the entire population and to support the suppression of the Covid-19 virus in the community. This will allow everyone to reduce their contacts, with a view to reducing the spread of the virus and a swift return to school for all.

Remote Learning during this period

Following the initial period of school closure last year, the Department has engaged with the education partners to revise remote teaching and learning guidance. This was agreed with all stakeholders last year and guidance for primary and post-primary schools was subsequently published online in October and December 2020 respectively.

As such, during this time, all teachers, including special education teachers (SETs), are required to continue to support teaching and learning for all pupils/students in their class/subject group or on their caseload.

Schools have been advised of the need to ensure appropriate provision and support for pupils/students during this time. Every school has been advised of the need to develop a contingency plan for remote learning that is appropriate to children’s different ages and stages, and has been provided with guidance on best practice. The guidance provided to schools notes that it is crucially important that the learning of all pupils/students, especially those with special educational needs and those at risk of educational disadvantage and/or early school leaving, are supported at this time. These guidelines are listed at the end of this letter.

Schools have been provided with funding as part of the Digital Strategy for Schools. In 2020 funding totaling €100m in 2020 was provided to schools and schools have been advised to prioritise supporting the purchase of devices for students who may not have access to devices for remote learning. The School Support services that are funded by the Department have developed a suite of materials to assist teachers in using an online platform to support teaching, learning and assessment. Furthermore, there is a range of supports available to schools from the National Council for Special Education (NCSE), the National Council for Curriculum and Assessment, Junior Cycle for Teachers, An Chomhairle um Oideachas Gaeltachta agus Gaelscoilaíochta, National Educational Psychological Service, Education Centres and the Centre for School Leadership.

There has been an excellent take up by teachers throughout the country of training and supports provided in this area, and I know that schools will do their utmost in these difficult circumstances to provide the best possible experience for students. Schools will contact parents directly with their plans and arrangements for remote learning.

The Inspectorate of the Department will continue to offer an advisory service to schools to support the delivery of remote learning and to provide assistance to school leaders in particular. The Inspectorate will also evaluate and report on the quality of educational provision for students at this time.

Returning to in-person learning for all schools
The Department is conscious that closing schools has hugely adverse consequences at individual, family and societal level. For children, it impacts on wellbeing, learning, on social and emotional development.

School closure has significant impacts on children with special educational needs. School closure also heightens student anxiety, particularly for the Leaving Certificate cohort, in relation to state examinations.

The Government decision included provision that in-person learning would be maintained for two specific cohorts from Monday 11, pupils/ students attending special schools and classes and final year Leaving Certificate students. Despite the confirmation by Public Health that schools remain safe, unfortunately it has not proved possible to get agreement to provide in-person learning for these two groups. In these circumstance there is no alternative but to pause the limited reopening and continue engagement with partners. I will keep parents of these students updated on this engagement.

The latest public health advice received by Government is available here. It clearly outlines that schools are safe environments, and that the protective measures and the considerable supports put in place to support schools have been successful.

Where there have been cases in schools, the enhanced school teams put in place by Public Health and the Department have worked effectively to support schools, and the level of transmission in schools has been low. Because of this, we continue to aim to return all students to in-person learning as soon as it is possible to do so.



Supports and wellbeing
It is important that students experience continuity of learning during this period to the extent that is possible for your family, bearing in mind your child’s age and stage. Research conducted in Ireland concluded that while online learning worked for some students during the period of school closure, it did not replicate the in-school learning experience – this was also the experience internationally.

We all know that it can be difficult to achieve maximum interaction with remote learning, with many competing demands and restrictions. The best advice is that you provide the support that is possible for your family to your child and that you prioritise your child’s and your own wellbeing, balancing that with supporting learning, during this period.

Links to some supports available are provided below.

I wish you and your family all the very best at this time, and hope to communicate soon with you on a safe return to in-person learning for all.



Regards,



______________________________
Norma Foley TD
Minister for Education



Id say Ms Fooley is fully intending on reopening our "safe environments" come feb 1st

And to this that up to this time last year this person was a teacher. She is so removed from the reality of the situation on the ground within schools.

wirelessdude01

History Queen wrote: »

I have to say I hope schools are opened as soon as it is safe to do so. And I've no problem with a phased reopening. It doesn't have to be all or nothing, but the Department are going to have to think outside the box.

Not exactly their forte though is it?

Norma will either perish on this rock, be the minister who brought the education system to its knees due to her intransigence or end up as the next leader of FF.

All three outcomes have an even money chance at this stage.

Wombatman

The whole 'schools are safe' mantra this is REALLY getting on my nerves at this stage.

Schools may have been safe at one time, but nobody, not even NPHET, would suggest they are currently safe. No environment, where large groups of people are gathered, is safe at present. Even the dogs on the street know that.

The schools are safe message really needs to be called out because it dangerous and utterly disingenuous.

Whiplash85

Wombatman wrote: »

The whole 'schools are safe' mantra this is REALLY getting on my nerves at this stage.

Schools may have been safe at one time, but nobody, not even NPHET, would suggest they are currently safe. No environment, where large groups of people are gathered, is safe at present. Even the dogs on the street know that.

The schools are safe message really needs to be called out because it dangerous and utterly disingenuous.

I would wager that comments that schools are safe and children do not spread the virus was used by many over the Christmas period to justify bringing kids to see their relatives and grandparents that they may have not seen in over a year. You are right in saying that this is disingenuous and could be the giant elephant in the room when it comes to analysing how things could have got out of hand so quickly.

average_runner

khalessi wrote: »

I think they wil try to push for reopening 1st of Feb but doubt it will happen.

That would not be a good move. Too early to open yet

khalessi

average_runner wrote: »

That would not be a good move. Too early to open yet

Agreed, we really have to get our number down. But I would not put it past her, as she has egg on her face.