2021 Irish Property Market chat - *mod warnings post 1*

thefridge2006

Cyrus wrote: »

Still haven’t read it then ?

Pal

Did i quote the correct heading? .....PAL

hometruths

Cyrus wrote: »

Still haven’t read it then ?

Pal

I don't get your point? I have read the article.

“As the long stop date has passed without a transaction being completed, Link Group has exercised its right to terminate the SPA and not to proceed with the acquisition,” the company said.

Exercising their right to not proceed with the acquisition sounds a lot like pulling out of the deal.

What am I missing?

thefridge2006

schmittel wrote: »

I don't get your point? I have read the article.



Exercising their right to not proceed with the acquisition sounds a lot like pulling out of the deal.

What am I missing?

Ah i wouldn't entertain this joker too much. He's on this all the time picking pointless fights.

Hubertj

Villa05 wrote: »

Air bnb can fexk off if we are setting up a quango to regulate it
The concept was simple when it started.
You have a spare bedroom you let it out on air bnb should you wish
The customer and supplier are responsible for their own actions, they know they are doing. Live with the outcomes.

It was never intended for whole residential units to be let out in this manner. If it is get revenue, councils to impose existing laws

I think it offers families cost effective accommodation thereby enabling them to take holidays they might otherwise be able to afford. I don’t think it is right for that to be taken away from them. Again, if it was properly regulated.... but it’s easier to take the populist view, fake outrage and shout it should be banned.

PropQueries

Hubertj wrote: »

I think it offers families cost effective accommodation thereby enabling them to take holidays they might otherwise be able to afford. I don’t think it is right for that to be taken away from them. Again, if it was properly regulated.... but it’s easier to take the populist view, fake outrage and shout it should be banned.

I personally don’t have a problem with AirBnB. My problem is that all our taxes will increase and all our local services will be reduced due to DCC spending c. €200 million on homeless services this year.

If DCC was more proactive in letting these AirBnB property owners know that there was no possible way of going back to AirBnB post-covid, many of these properties would have re-entered the rental market by now. More rental stock means less homelessness, less rent paid by local workers, less HAP payouts etc.

AirBnB benefits a tiny minority of landlords in the city and the rest of us homeowners (the vast majority) are forced to pay out real cash for the consequences. All our property taxes could probably be cut in half if the Dublin councils got their act together on this one issue alone.

Link to estimated DCC cost of homeless services this year: https://www.irishtimes.com/news/ireland/irish-news/dublin-homelessness-services-to-cost-213m-next-year-1.4416301

Marius34

PropQueries wrote: »

I personally don’t have a problem with AirBnB. My problem is that all our taxes will increase and all our local services will be reduced due to DCC spending c. €200 million on homeless services this year.

If DCC was more proactive in letting these AirBnB property owners know that there was no possible way of going back to AirBnB post-covid, many of these properties would have re-entered the rental market by now. More rental stock means less homelessness, less rent paid by local workers, less HAP payouts etc.

AirBnB benefits a tiny minority of landlords in the city and the rest of us homeowners (the vast majority) are forced to pay out real cash for the consequences. All our property taxes could probably be cut in half if the Dublin councils got their act together on this one issue alone.

Link to estimated DCC cost of homeless services this year: https://www.irishtimes.com/news/ireland/irish-news/dublin-homelessness-services-to-cost-213m-next-year-1.4416301

If all those empty properties would be pushed to re-enter rental market, at the time when demands for rental is low in Dublin city. It would be disaster for people returning to work in Dublin, after all the lockdowns. As well as anyone moving to Dublin for any other reasons that needs to be in Dublin.

hometruths

Marius34 wrote: »

If all those empty properties would be pushed to re-enter rental market, at the time when demands for rental is low in Dublin city. It would be disaster for people returning to work in Dublin, after all the lockdowns. As well as anyone moving to Dublin for any other reasons that needs to be in Dublin.

Why would it be a disaster for people returning to work in Dublin?

Marius34

schmittel wrote: »

Why would it be a disaster for people returning to work in Dublin?

No empty properties on the supply side, when demands return, for those who need to return to Dublin, and for those who needs to be in Dublin 2-4 days a week.

hometruths

Marius34 wrote: »

No empty properties on the supply side, when demands return, for those who need to return to Dublin, and for those who needs to be in Dublin 2-4 days a week.

So you're saying we should not encourage those properties to re-enter the rental market and that is somehow better?

Marius34

schmittel wrote: »

So you're saying we should not encourage those properties to re-enter the rental market and that is somehow better?

No, that's not what I'm saying.
I'm saying that landlords currently should not be pushed to rent-out properties in Dublin during Covid. It's rather very important to be ready to have high rental supplies for the second half of this year.

JimmyVik

TheSheriff wrote: »

Yawn.

Every so often these links are posted up with the "I wonder why they did that?" and a smug suggestion that the world is falling in.

You should read the article you posted.........

Its like the annual its the end of the world proclamation.
Then they look at Nostradamus and find he predicted it too.
Some bright spark should just go and read Nostradamus BEFORE something happens. Then things would be much simpler.

hometruths

Marius34 wrote: »

No, that's not what I'm saying.
I'm saying that landlords currently should not be pushed to rent-out properties in Dublin during Covid. It's rather very important to be ready to have high rental supplies for the second half of this year.

Cool, let's encourage them to keep the properties empty and we can keep the homeless homeless during a pandemic so. Can't have too many properties available for rent at any one time.

Irish approach to property market 1.01. It's no wonder it's f*cked.

PropQueries

It looks like the cost of delivering housing by DCC is being seriously looked into. There's not much reporting on this in other media outlets so I would wonder how serious they will be at looking into the reasons in this audit.

According to the SBP on Monday:

"An emergency motion has been submitted by Fine Gael councillors to Dublin City Council calling for an immediate audit of the local authority’s housing bill."

Link to article in SBP here: https://www.businesspost.ie/houses/councillors-submit-emergency-motion-calling-for-audit-of-dublin-city-council-housing-bill-6081aed2

Subutai

PropQueries wrote: »

It looks like the cost of delivering housing by DCC is being seriously looked into. There's not much reporting on this in other media outlets so I would wonder how serious they will be at looking into the reasons in this audit.

According to the SBP on Monday:

"An emergency motion has been submitted by Fine Gael councillors to Dublin City Council calling for an immediate audit of the local authority’s housing bill."

Link to article in SBP here: https://www.businesspost.ie/houses/councillors-submit-emergency-motion-calling-for-audit-of-dublin-city-council-housing-bill-6081aed2

It was ruled out of order.

Cyrus

thefridge2006 wrote: »

Did i quote the correct heading? .....PAL

the title of the article is incorrect, if you still havent realised that you havent read it, so maybe read articles before you go linking them.

MacronvFrugals

<SNIP>

Cyrus

schmittel wrote: »

I don't get your point? I have read the article.



Exercising their right to not proceed with the acquisition sounds a lot like pulling out of the deal.

What am I missing?

the fact that the deal they are pulling out of is a deal for the whole european business and not a deal for the irish subsidiary is not whats suggested by the headline.

Link Group, an Australian-listed firm, has pulled out of a €200m deal to buy Pepper European Services (PES), which included Pepper Ireland.

the headline being

Link pulls out of deal for Pepper’s Irish business

Anyone who read the article couldnt fail to agree that the headline is misleading.

Cyrus

thefridge2006 wrote: »

Ah i wouldn't entertain this joker too much. He's on this all the time picking pointless fights.

hey there mr 100 odd posts, if you have something to contribute please do, but id ask that you at least read what you are posting.

You are a property bear who is looking for links to support your opinion, thats fine but at least get something relevant.

as to me picking pointless fights i reserve my right to disagree with you and anyone else, especially when the standard of posting is as it is.

Marius34

schmittel wrote: »

Cool, let's encourage them to keep the properties empty and we can keep the homeless homeless during a pandemic so. Can't have too many properties available for rent at any one time.

Irish approach to property market 1.01. It's no wonder it's f*cked.

So we push landlords in Dublin to rent-out to all the unemployed/HAP/homeless during Covid. And for workers returning to Dublin after covid, let make spend their work days looking for a place to live, with 100 hard working people competing at the single viewing.

MacronvFrugals

Michael Clifford: Housing is in an even sicker state than health


I think we can all agree with Mick Clifford's analysis on the shared equity scheme especially where the scheme originated from, IBEC/PPI.

The scheme was introduced following lobbying by construction interests with the intention of getting the State to bridge the gap between what people can pay and market prices. But government officials have expressed concerns that the whole scheme will do little for prospective homebuyers and much for developers.

Not withstanding the current pandemic emergency, housing remains, with climate change, the most pressing issue on the political agenda. The societal stain of homelessness, the warehousing of children in hotel rooms, and the incapacity of a whole generation to have a home like their parents and grandparents did, is a central political preoccupation.

They have been in thrall to the free market buccaneers. They, more than even Fine Gael, have promoted speculation and profiteering through the system by which land for housing is zoned. Planning where people live has been led by developers, not elected representatives nor state employees.

https://www.irishexaminer.com/opinion/columnists/arid-40216814.html

thefridge2006

Cyrus wrote: »

the title of the article is incorrect, if you still havent realised that you havent read it, so maybe read articles before you go linking them.

The title of the article is the title of the article. I didnt give the article the title. If you think the author gave her piece of work the wrong title ,then take it up with her. I quoted the correct title of the article so it's a strange angle to argue to be fair. hence you having a name for starting pointless fights on here.

But if you think the journo gave her work the wrong heading id advice ya to get in touch with Ellie Donnelly in the Irish Independent

PropQueries

Marius34 wrote: »

So we push landlords in Dublin to rent-out to all the unemployed/HAP/homeless during Covid. And for workers returning to Dublin after covid, let make spend their work days looking for a place to live, with 100 hard working people competing at the single viewing.

I've seen very little media coverage of lots and lots of people queuing for rental accommodation in Dublin over the past 3 years.

When all these covid workers do return (if that many truly left because of covid and are indeed returning), we'll have built about c. 35,000 - 40,000 (new build supply over 2020 and 2021 inclusive) new additional units in Ireland by the time they return so they can take up that accommodation IMO.

Many of these covid workers who have left would also have been working in the tourism, construction etc. sectors and both these are not returning to pre-covid levels for at least another couple of years so these workers won't be returning either, so there will be plenty of rental accommodation ready and available to any covid-19 workers returning to Ireland next year IMO

Just to add: See how I didn't add in all that additional supply from properties entering probate over 2020 and 2021 as well.

fliball123

PropQueries wrote: »

I've seen very little media coverage of lots and lots of people queuing for rental accommodation in Dublin over the past 3 years.

When all these covid workers do return (if that many truly left because of covid and are indeed returning), we'll have built about c. 35,000 - 40,000 (new build supply over 2020 and 2021 inclusive) new additional units in Ireland by the time they return so they can take up that accommodation IMO.

Many of these covid workers who have left would also have been working in the tourism, construction etc. sectors and both these are not returning to pre-covid levels for at least another couple of years so these workers won't be returning either, so there will be plenty of rental accommodation ready and available to any covid-19 workers returning to Ireland next year IMO

And how many of those new units will be taken by people reaching the age where they need to be out on their own??? Nothing like being locked down with your parents to put the goo on you for your own place. We have gone down the route of how even without migration inwards our population has been on the up in the last 100 years. Dont keep putting up a figure of 35/40 houses when a good % of these will be taken by domestic demand. Do I need to put a link up to our population increases or our mortgage draw downs over the recent past. Also how many of 2020 stock has already been sold so its no longer available.

Bass Reeves

PropQueries wrote: »

If DCC was more proactive in letting these AirBnB property owners know that there was no possible way of going back to AirBnB post-covid, many of these properties would have re-entered the rental market by now. More rental stock means less homelessness, less rent paid by local workers, less HAP payouts etc.

First off if the owners are not renting as AerBnB at present DCC has no right to come near them. This is in contravention of data protection laws. Anybody doing AerBnB is probably not interested in dealing with longer term tenants. Some may even be using here property on and off during the year themselves. As well many owners may choose to go down the 3 month option rather than go into residential rental market. With reduced supply rates will rise as will Hotel rates. This will impact on the Dublin tourism industry. While you are limited to three months of the year it has not got to be consecutive AFAIK. If an owner reneted for weekends only 3 months is equivalent to 30-45 weekends depending on whether it is two or three night options.

As well owners may opt to rent out to AerBnB for the 3 months and then rent for short-term rentals for 8-12 weeks 1-2 times a year and leave empty then. Nothing illegal and DCC can take a hike

Cyrus

thefridge2006 wrote: »

The title of the article is the title of the article. I didnt give the article the title. If you think the author gave her piece of work the wrong title ,then take it up with her. I quoted the correct title of the article so it's a strange angle to argue to be fair. hence you having a name for starting pointless fights on here.

But if you think the journo gave her work the wrong heading id advice ya to get in touch with Ellie Donnelly in the Irish Independent

a name, with whom? if i had been starting pointless fights here it would have come to the attention of the moderators, as of yet i havent had a warning so i absolutely reject your assertion.

I dont doubt you quoted the title as it was written, but if you read and comprehended the article you wouldnt have as it was misleading and incorrect.

i dont use the independent for business news so ill let you correct the journo

Graham

Mod Note

thefridge2006 / Cyrus, enough with the personal digs.

Do not reply to this post.

jill_valentine

I've seen very little media coverage of lots and lots of people queuing for rental accommodation in Dublin over the past 3 years

About a year and a half ago I advertised a (tiny) room in my (not very nice) rented house and got between 150-200 emails back in five days.

My issue with AirBnB in terms of housing is that I live smack bang in the middle of a load of "Student" apartments that were thrown up very obviously with AirBnB in mind under a student accommodation fig leaf.

So now instead of having hundreds, if not thousands, of apartments appropriate for people to actually live in and alleviate the homelessness crisis, we're stuck with acres of empty shoeboxes soaking up brilliant locations that cannot be easily retrofitted and couldn't be less suitable for the circumstances.

The pandemic couldn't have been predicted, but it was always a bubble, and the bubble was always going to burst. The effect is akin to monoculture farming, after a certain point it simply sterilises the environment around it. Planners did not need to be Nostradamus to mitigate against that. It was *always* apparent what was going on there, and the unsustainability of losing *huge* chunks of the city to short term accommodation with no services was always obvious.

The units we could have been building instead in those areas would have made a massive difference to the state of the city and the homelessness situation. Instead, without tourists or a few students, there are whole ghost neighbourhoods, whole buildings of "accommodation" without a sinner in them but security guards, while there are tents by the canal.

That any of that was allowable under existing legislation says that either the legislation or its enforcement wasn't fit for purpose.

PropQueries

Bass Reeves wrote: »

First off if the owners are not renting as AerBnB at present DCC has no right to come near them. This is in contravention of data protection laws. Anybody doing AerBnB is probably not interested in dealing with longer term tenants. Some may even be using here property on and off during the year themselves. As well many owners may choose to go down the 3 month option rather than go into residential rental market. With reduced supply rates will rise as will Hotel rates. This will impact on the Dublin tourism industry. While you are limited to three months of the year it has not got to be consecutive AFAIK. If an owner reneted for weekends only 3 months is equivalent to 30-45 weekends depending on whether it is two or three night options.

As well owners may opt to rent out to AerBnB for the 3 months and then rent for short-term rentals for 8-12 weeks 1-2 times a year and leave empty then. Nothing illegal and DCC can take a hike

I fully agree that DCC should not get involved in what a property owner is doing with the property they own.

However, it becomes very much the DCC, neighbours and local businesses problem when that same property owner starts using that property for another use outside what the original planning permission permits i.e. switching from residential use to what is basically B&B and business use.

It also matters in relation to overall planning e.g. why would I set-up and invest in a new takeaway in a new estate if once every other household sees how successful I am, they can then set up their own takeaways in their front gardens without any planning permission.

Planning permissions are granted and development plans are drawn up for a reason i.e. sustainable development.

Another example would be if the the local county council draws up their development plan and plans for a population increase of e.g. 5,000 in their local area over the next 5 years.

They draw up the development plan by stating that 2,000 houses should be built here to cater for this projected increase in local population. If these units are then bought by investors and converted into B&B's, it renders the councils development plan mute.

These AirBnB property owners purchased their properties in full knowledge that they were to be used as residential units. They can't then turn around and say it's "unfair" that DCC is interfering with their "property rights".

Their "property rights" only apply as long as they use their property for what it was originally granted planning permission for i.e. residential use.

fliball123

PropQueries wrote: »

I've seen very little media coverage of lots and lots of people queuing for rental accommodation in Dublin over the past 3 years.

When all these covid workers do return (if that many truly left because of covid and are indeed returning), we'll have built about c. 35,000 - 40,000 (new build supply over 2020 and 2021 inclusive) new additional units in Ireland by the time they return so they can take up that accommodation IMO.

Many of these covid workers who have left would also have been working in the tourism, construction etc. sectors and both these are not returning to pre-covid levels for at least another couple of years so these workers won't be returning either, so there will be plenty of rental accommodation ready and available to any covid-19 workers returning to Ireland next year IMO

Just to add: See how I didn't add in all that additional supply from properties entering probate over 2020 and 2021 as well.

Actually I will link so just to be sure as I can see you coming back with an IMO so figures and facts show us that..YOu can see in the link attached that 35617 mortgages drawn down in 2020 and 57% of these were FTB now I have no figures for this but I would assume a high % of FTBs would be buying a new build due to the government incentives to do so 30k off new builds is a massive amount of cash to turn your nose up at. So in numbers 20302 (approx) have taken a house that was a new build. So that is more than the highest projected figures of build completions for 2020 which was 18,300 and I think the number of completions will be less than the 18,300 but we will find out soon what the build completion levels were for 2020 (I think was the figure latest figure given as an estimate of new builds completed in 2020)

Mortgage drawdowns 2020
https://blackbee.ie/latest-economic-market-update-1st-february-2021/

So can you stop going on about there being 35k houses available when they are being snapped up quicker than they are being built

hometruths

Bass Reeves wrote: »

First off if the owners are not renting as AerBnB at present DCC has no right to come near them. This is in contravention of data protection laws. Anybody doing AerBnB is probably not interested in dealing with longer term tenants. Some may even be using here property on and off during the year themselves. As well many owners may choose to go down the 3 month option rather than go into residential rental market. With reduced supply rates will rise as will Hotel rates. This will impact on the Dublin tourism industry. While you are limited to three months of the year it has not got to be consecutive AFAIK. If an owner reneted for weekends only 3 months is equivalent to 30-45 weekends depending on whether it is two or three night options.

As well owners may opt to rent out to AerBnB for the 3 months and then rent for short-term rentals for 8-12 weeks 1-2 times a year and leave empty then. Nothing illegal and DCC can take a hike

I think again, like many, you misunderstand the market.

If it is not their PPR and it is an RPZ it is illegal to use if for STLs for any length of time without planning permission.