2021 Irish Property Market chat - *mod warnings post 1*

hometruths

Timing belt wrote: »

Not a lot will have changed from 2016 to 2019

Yep hence why I said long term average (and 2016, 2011 etc etc).

If we knew the long term average, and what way it was trending we'd have a better idea if this is some sort of cultural thing - i.e we just live differently - and ask do we need/want to continue that?

Or if we discovered that 70% is an anomaly and long term is closer to something like 55% we'd know that at some stage it is likely to revert to the mean and we'd need to be prepared for that.

beauf

schmittel wrote: »

Ah I see. I say "But it still suggests we don’t need to build 30k new properties a year" and you reply "You're assuming that those properties that are under used are in good condition, or useful location, or not locked into the fair deal or some other legal tangle." and you're talking about the new builds?!

Well yes of course I am assuming new build properties will be in good condition, a useful location and most obviously of all not locked into the fair deal or some other legal tangle!

You've barely laid a fingertip on that particular straw you're trying to clutch.

You're premise behind this whole saga with rooms was we don't need 30k new builds we have enough stock with the unused capacity we have. I'm saying this unused capacity, or more rooms per person and the EU average, is that a certain % of these rooms are likely not useful for the 50k of people immigrating here every year pre Covid, or people moving out of home hardly want to move into someone elses empty nest when they've just moved out of their own. Or a hundred other scenerio's.

This is a very long winded way I assume of trying to say there isn't a supply issue, that at some point it will all blow up, and there will cheap houses for all, except the rich people. Because thats a summary of the Irish property Market thread here for the last 3 or more years.

Marius34

schmittel wrote: »

What is not clear is how families with kids living in 3 bed semis explains why 70% of our population lives in underoccupied houses and our average number of rooms per person is 2.1.

Because there are as well homes with 1 person, or 2 persons. There are all kind of households like in any other European countries. There are empty old country side homes, there are holiday homes, like anywhere else.
Families with 1-2 children of course doesn't explain all the 70%. But it explain big portion of difference from other countries. Which is due to accommodation type difference from rest of Europe. Smaller dwellings, but with more rooms.

hometruths

Marius34 wrote: »

Because there are as well homes with 1 person, or 2 persons. There are all kind of households like in any other European countries. There are empty old country side homes, there are holiday homes, like anywhere else.
Families with 1-2 children of course doesn't explain all the 70%. But it explain big portion of difference from other countries. Which is due to accommodation type difference from rest of Europe. Smaller dwellings, but with more rooms.

Nonsense.

hometruths

beauf wrote: »

You're premise behind this whole saga with rooms was we don't need 30k new builds we have enough stock with the unused capacity we have. I'm saying this unused capacity, or more rooms per person and the EU average, is that a certain % of these rooms are likely not useful for the 50k of people immigrating here every year pre Covid, or people moving out of home hardly want to move into someone elses empty nest when they've just moved out of their own. Or a hundred other scenerio's.

This is a very long winded way I assume of trying to say there isn't a supply issue, that at some point it will all blow up, and there will cheap houses for all, except the rich people. Because thats a summary of the Irish property Market thread here for the last 3 or more years.

We'll leave it there so.

Marius34

schmittel wrote: »

Nonsense.

Why? What would be most common property for family with one children at home in Ireland?

hometruths

Marius34 wrote: »

Why? What would be most common property for family with one children at home in Ireland?

If the EU average is 1.6 rooms per person, and we're an outlier with 2.1 rooms per person the difference is not explained by families with 1 or 2 kids at 1.25 rooms or 1.67 rooms per person, as in the 3 bed semi example.

It is explained by those with over 2.1 rooms per person.

fliball123

schmittel wrote: »

If the EU average is 1.6 rooms per person, and we're an outlier with 2.1 rooms per person the difference is not explained by families with 1 or 2 kids at 1.25 rooms or 1.67 rooms per person, as in the 3 bed semi example.

It is explained by those with over 2.1 rooms per person.

So what should be done will we tell everyone that they have to let another family live their house with them?

Timing belt

schmittel wrote: »

If the EU average is 1.6 rooms per person, and we're an outlier with 2.1 rooms per person the difference is not explained by families with 1 or 2 kids at 1.25 rooms or 1.67 rooms per person, as in the 3 bed semi example.

It is explained by those with over 2.1 rooms per person.

The EU average of people per room is low because of the eastern block countries.

If you compare Ireland to western Europe we are not much of an outlier when it is no of rooms per person

TIME 2010 2011 2012 2013 2014 2015 2016 2017 2018 2019
GEO (Labels)
Malta 2 2.1 2.1 2.1 2.1 2.1 2.2 2.2 2.2 2.2
Belgium 2.1 2.2 2.3 2.2 2.2 2.2 2.2 b 2.2 2.1 2.1 b
Ireland 2.1 2.1 2.1 2.1 2 2.1 2.1 2.1 2.1 2.1
Cyprus 2 2 2 2 2 2 2 2 2 2
Luxembourg 1.9 1.9 2 2 2 2 1.9 b 1.9 2 2
Netherlands 2 2 2 2 1.9 1.9 1.9 b 2 2 2
Norway 2 2 2 2 2 2.1 2.1 2.1 2 2
Denmark 1.9 1.9 1.9 1.9 1.9 1.9 1.9 1.9 1.9 1.9
Spain 1.9 1.9 1.9 1.9 1.9 1.9 1.9 1.9 1.9 1.9
France 1.8 1.8 1.8 1.8 1.8 1.8 1.8 1.8 1.8 1.9
Finland 1.9 1.9 1.9 1.9 1.9 1.9 1.9 1.9 1.9 1.9
Germany (until 1990 former territory of the FRG) 1.8 1.8 1.8 1.8 1.8 1.8 1.8 1.8 1.8 1.8
Sweden 1.7 1.7 1.7 1.7 1.7 1.7 1.7 1.7 1.7 1.8
Switzerland 1.8 1.8 1.8 1.8 1.9 b 1.9 1.9 1.9 1.8 1.8
Estonia 1.2 1.6 1.6 1.5 1.6 b 1.6 1.6 1.7 1.7 1.7
Portugal 1.4 1.6 1.6 1.6 1.7 1.7 1.7 1.7 1.7 1.7
Lithuania 1.1 1.6 1.6 1.4 1.4 1.5 1.5 1.5 1.6 1.6
Austria 1.7 1.6 1.6 1.6 1.6 1.6 1.6 1.6 1.6 1.6
Slovenia 1.1 1.4 1.4 1.5 1.5 1.5 1.5 1.5 1.6 1.6
Czechia 1.4 1.4 1.4 1.4 1.4 1.4 1.5 1.5 1.5 1.5
Hungary 1 1.1 1.1 1.1 1.2 1.2 1.2 1.2 1.5 1.5
Italy 1.4 1.4 1.4 1.4 1.4 1.4 1.4 1.4 1.4 1.4
Bulgaria 1.1 1.1 1.1 1.1 1.1 1.2 1.2 b 1.2 1.2 1.2
Greece 1.2 1.2 1.2 1.2 1.2 1.2 1.2 1.2 1.2 1.2
Latvia 1 1.2 1.3 1.2 1.2 1.2 1.2 1.2 1.2 1.2
Slovakia 1.1 1.2 1.2 1.1 1.1 1.1 1.1 1.2 1.1 1.2
Croatia 1.1 1.1 1.1 1.1 1.1 1.1 1.1 1.1 1.1 1.1
Poland 1 1 1 1.1 1.1 1.1 1.1 1.1 1.1 1.1
Romania 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1.1 1.1 1.1
Turkey 0.9 0.9 0.9 1 1 1 1 1 1 1.1
North Macedonia 0.9 0.9 0.9 0.9 1 b 0.9 1 1 1 1
Serbia : : : 0.9 1 1 0.9 0.9 1 1
Montenegro : : : 1.1 0.9 1 0.9 0.9 0.9 0.8
United Kingdom 1.8 1.8 1.9 1.9 1.9 2 1.9 2.1 b 2 :
Iceland 1.6 1.6 1.6 1.5 1.6 1.6 1.6 1.6 1.6 :
Kosovo (under United Nations Security Council Resolution 1244/99) : : : : : : : : 0.7 :

beauf

People are still waiting for the rapture. Only a Celtic Tiger Crash style rapture.

Marius34

schmittel wrote: »

If the EU average is 1.6 rooms per person, and we're an outlier with 2.1 rooms per person the difference is not explained by families with 1 or 2 kids at 1.25 rooms or 1.67 rooms per person, as in the 3 bed semi example.

It is explained by those with over 2.1 rooms per person.

2.1 rooms per person is average. We are not talking about average. Meaning there are as well large numbers with less people per room, which can be well considered under-occupied. Regardless what it is and what people we are looking, the key point here that in Ireland dwelling type is very difference, result in number of rooms higher, but not the space.

beauf

Timing belt wrote: »

The EU average of people per room is low because of the eastern block countries.

If you compare Ireland to western Europe we are not much of an outlier when it is no of rooms per person...

Family size, is similarly skewed. In that we look only slightly above when the wider data set it used.

beauf

fliball123 wrote: »

So what should be done will we tell everyone that they have to let another family live their house with them?

Windows tax, room tax or such.

hometruths

fliball123 wrote: »

So what should be done will we tell everyone that they have to let another family live their house with them?

Hard to tell if you're being sarcastic or thick. I'll give you the benefit of the doubt and assume it's sarcasm, and as such a rhetorical question.

fliball123

beauf wrote: »

Windows tax, room tax or such.

Well the other part that is totally missed are the houses that are being used by con men and rented mainly by non nationals and all under the radar as the owners are not paying tax. So your talking in some cased 5/6 to a room and I have heard of bigger numbers but this will not be in any report

PropQueries

beauf wrote: »

People are still waiting for the rapture. Only a Celtic Tiger Crash style rapture.

I don’t think most are waiting for such a big crash.

It’s just some (myself included) can’t get our heads around how after the last crash they were stating it would take decades to occupy all the excess supply from the Celtic tiger years to a supply “shortage” a few short years later.

But this is a good place to throw out ideas and see what’s thrown back to finally maybe get to the real answers IMO

Idbatterim

PropQueries wrote: »

Posted link earlier on in day so only reposting caused asked:

https://www.irishtimes.com/business/commercial-property/german-investor-to-acquire-greystones-apartments-for-60m-1.4462425


The Rolls Royce may not be too far off the mark given that it’s the only thing that explains the cost difference between the cost of building private homes and the cost DCC stated it costs them to build.

WOW! I wonder how long before Shrewsbury Road has social housing... and I am not being sarcastic...

given we could never afford to live there, maybe its time to get your name on the housing list lads!

PropQueries

Idbatterim wrote: »

WOW! I wonder how long before Shrewsbury Road has social housing... and I am not being sarcastic...

given we could never afford to live there, maybe its time to get your name on the housing list lads!

I would gamble on Lansdowne Place as the next one to fall under a similar sale.

Timing belt

PropQueries wrote: »

I don’t think most are waiting for such a big crash.

It’s just some (myself included) can’t get our heads around how after the last crash they were stating it would take decades to occupy all the excess supply from the Celtic tiger years to a supply “shortage” a few short years later.

But this is a good place to throw out ideas and see what’s thrown back to finally maybe get to the real answers IMO

The crash was a decade ago

hometruths

PropQueries wrote: »

I don’t think most are waiting for such a big crash.

It’s just some (myself included) can’t get our heads around how after the last crash they were stating it would take decades to occupy all the excess supply from the Celtic tiger years to a supply “shortage” a few short years later.

Agreed. But more so than what we were led to believe 10 years ago, I struggle to get my head around the inconsistencies today. The underoccupied/overcrowded thing is a good example.

For instance - we're told that we have a housing shortage - just look at the numbers of adult kids living with their parents. Crisis levels.

And we're also told that the reason 70% of people live in underoccupied houses is because of all the empty nesters.

This seems contradictory and there is a lot of contradictory stuff around the housing shortage.

PropQueries wrote: »

But this is a good place to throw out ideas and see what’s thrown back to finally maybe get to the real answers IMO

Not so sure I agree with that

Timing belt

schmittel wrote: »

Yes but clearly not because families with kids are living in 3 bed semis like you said.



I suspect it is because a lot of couples without kids living in 3 bed semis.

Whatever the reason is I'd like to see more govt level acknowledgement/discussion/analysis of this, so we have a better understanding of why this is so, and is there anything we can do differently.

For example, what the long term average is in Ireland? 50% - 70% - 80%? That is valuable information.

Also where is this concentrated. If it is all down to the fact that the kids of Leitrim got out of there as fast as possible, then yes, there is nothing to see here. But what is the actual data in high demand areas etc etc?

Here is your historical data of Share of people living in under-occupied dwellings by tenure status - total population - EU-SILC survey [ILC_LVHO50C]

TIME 2010 2010 2010 2011 2011 2011 2012 2012 2012 2013 2013 2013 2014 2014 2014 2015 2015 2015 2016 2016 2016 2017 2017 2017 2018 2018 2018 2019 2019 2019
TENURE (Labels) Total Owner Tenant Total Owner Tenant Total Owner Tenant Total Owner Tenant Total Owner Tenant Total Owner Tenant Total Owner Tenant Total Owner Tenant Total Owner Tenant Total Owner Tenant
GEO (Labels)
Ireland 72.5 82.9 42.4 71.9 82.7 44.8 72.5 82.3 48 71.9 82.7 45.3 69.7 80.7 42.4 70.6 81.9 41.3 70.4 81.7 41 69.6 81.9 37 71.4 84.1 39.7 69.6 82.7 40.5
Malta 69.3 73.4 47.1 71.1 74.4 52.6 68.6 71.6 51.6 68.8 72.2 49.7 69.2 72.6 50.1 67.9 71.5 47.7 68 71.6 46.9 72.1 75.6 52 73.4 77.7 48.1 72.6 77.7 46
Cyprus 70.2 73.1 47.5 70 73.2 44.5 70.8 74.7 43.4 71 74.1 47.6 69.7 72.9 47.2 71.1 74.6 49.1 69.6 72.5 51.1 70.8 74.9 47.7 71.4 76.1 46.5 70.5 76 42.8
United Kingdom 45.1 57.9 14.1 44.9 58 15.5 49.8 b 64.8 b 18.3 b 50.1 66.7 19 52.2 68.8 21 51.7 69.4 19.6 51.5 69.1 19.4 62.3 b 77.7 b 32.6 b 55.8 71.4 25.7 : : :
Switzerland 45.2 67.4 26.6 46.3 69.2 27.6 49.1 71.3 31.1 48 70.4 29.7 47.8 b 71.1 b 28.4 b 46.5 71 26.7 46.6 71.8 27.1 45.8 71.1 27.2 45.1 71 24.9 44.5 70.2 25.2
Belgium 65.6 73.9 43.2 72 81.8 45.3 73.2 82.2 47.8 72.7 82.5 45.1 72 82.4 43.9 71.2 81.6 43.4 67.3 b 78.2 b 39 b 65 75.4 35.6 58.6 69.6 28.3 53.9 b 64.1 b 27 b
Luxembourg 59.1 71.2 31 59.4 72.6 28.2 58.8 71.7 24.8 58.2 69.1 25.3 58 70.2 23.1 56 67.9 21.1 54.1 b 65.2 b 20.3 b 55.5 66.2 21.3 53.7 66.2 21.2 54 66.6 20.4
Netherlands 61.6 67.7 49 61.4 67.1 49.4 60.3 65.6 49.1 55.7 62.1 42.4 52.9 60.3 37.5 51.8 60.4 33.4 51.4 b 60 b 31.3 b 52.9 61.1 33.5 53.9 63.1 32.6 53.4 63.2 30.9
Finland 50.7 63.4 12.2 49.5 62.1 11.6 49.8 62.3 12.9 50.1 62.8 13.2 48.7 61.9 11.3 48.7 61.8 12.2 48 61.8 11.8 46.8 60.9 10 46.9 61.2 9.4 47.5 62 10.5
Spain 62 65.9 39.8 54.7 b 59 b 30.6 b 57.7 61.7 35.8 56.9 61.6 32.5 57.1 61.1 34.4 57.9 61.6 37.2 55.7 59.4 36.8 55.9 59.8 36.8 56.3 61.1 34.4 55.4 60.3 33.4
Norway 53.5 59.1 10.1 52.4 57.4 11 53.4 59.7 13.7 53 58.3 8.4 55.7 60.4 11.5 53.8 61.2 13 53.6 61.5 10.3 53.6 62.3 11.1 52 60.3 12.6 51.5 59.9 14
Denmark 44.5 59 15.5 46 59.5 16.1 47.2 61.4 19.3 45.3 60.9 16.7 45.5 60.7 19.3 44.6 61.6 15.9 44 61.4 16.1 43.6 60.7 15.2 41.9 59.4 14.6 42.6 60.4 15
Germany (until 1990 former territory of the FRG) 36.3 56 11.4 36.5 56.1 11.3 36.3 56.2 11.1 35.7 55.5 11 36.6 56.9 11.8 35.7 56.2 11.5 35.3 55.1 11.9 35.4 56.4 10.9 36 57.2 11.7 35.3 56.7 11.2
France 41 55.4 14 42.9 57.6 14 43.1 57.2 14.8 44.2 57.9 16.2 43.8 57.4 15.5 43.5 56.8 16.7 43.3 56.3 16 43.2 56.6 16 43.6 57.1 15.3 43.8 58.5 14.9
Sweden 39.2 54.1 8.4 37.9 53.6 7.8 38.5 54.2 7.7 38.7 54 8.7 39.9 56 8.5 39.9 55.7 8.6 38.4 54.2 8 38.5 53.7 8.9 37.2 52.6 8.8 37.4 53.5 8.3
Euro area - 18 countries (2014) 38.7 47.5 16.8 38.3 47 16.3 38.6 47.2 16.6 38.1 46.8 16.3 38.2 47 16.1 37.9 46.9 16.1 37.2 46 15.9 37.3 46.5 15.5 37.4 46.8 15.4 36.9 46.4 15.1
Euro area (EA11-1999, EA12-2001, EA13-2007, EA15-2008, EA16-2009, EA17-2011, EA18-2014, EA19-2015) 39.1 e 48 e 16.9 e 38.4 e 47.2 e 16.4 e 38.7 e 47.5 e 16.6 e 38.3 e 47.1 e 16.4 e 38.2 e 47 e 16.1 e 37.8 e 46.6 e 16.1 e 37.1 e 45.7 e 15.9 e 37.2 e 46.2 e 15.5 e 37.3 e 46.5 e 15.4 e 36.8 e 46.2 e 15.1 e
Euro area - 19 countries (from 2015) 38.4 47 16.8 38.1 46.7 16.3 38.4 47 16.6 38 46.5 16.3 38 46.7 16 37.8 46.6 16.1 37.1 45.7 15.9 37.2 46.2 15.5 37.3 46.5 15.4 36.8 46.2 15.1
Austria 37.3 52.3 11.8 35.2 52.4 10.6 33.9 48.5 8.8 31.6 45.1 8.6 31 45.2 7.5 31.2 45.8 7.7 31.2 45.5 8.2 31.2 46.5 6.8 31 46 6.7 29.9 44.7 6.3
European Union - 27 countries (2007-2013) 34.4 40.5 15.6 34.2 40.5 15.3 35.1 41.5 16.1 34.9 41.4 16 35.3 41.9 16.2 35.3 42.2 16 35 41.8 15.8 36.6 43.4 17.7 36.1 43.2 16.4 : : :
European Union (EU6-1958, EU9-1973, EU10-1981, EU12-1986, EU15-1995, EU25-2004, EU27-2007, EU28-2013, EU27-2020) 34.2 e 40.1 e 15.6 e 34 e 40.1 e 15.3 e 34.9 e 41.1 e 16 e 34.7 e 41 e 16 e 35.1 e 41.5 e 16.2 e 35.1 e 41.8 e 15.9 e 34.8 e 41.5 e 15.8 e 36.4 e 43 e 17.7 e 35.9 e 42.9 e 16.4 e 35.7 e 42.9 e 16.1 e
European Union - 28 countries (2013-2020) 34.2 40.1 15.6 34 40.1 15.3 34.9 41.1 16 34.7 41 16 35.1 41.5 16.2 35.1 41.8 15.9 34.8 41.5 15.8 36.4 43 17.7 35.9 42.9 16.4 35.7 e 42.9 e 16.1 e
Portugal 24.7 27.8 10.1 34.5 38.1 17.3 35.9 39.9 17.3 36.6 40.9 16.7 38.3 41.9 20.3 37.5 41.2 19.5 37.2 40.7 19.9 36.8 40.1 20.6 36.1 39.4 20.3 36.9 40.8 18.5
European Union - 27 countries (from 2020) 32.7 e 37.9 e 15.9 e 32.5 e 37.8 e 15.3 e 32.7 e 38.1 e 15.6 e 32.4 e 37.8 e 15.4 e 32.6 e 38.1 e 15.2 e 32.6 e 38.3 e 15.1 e 32.3 e 38 e 15 e 32.5 e 38.4 e 14.6 e 33 e 39.2 e 14.6 e 32.7 e 39 e 14.3 e
Iceland 33.4 37.9 11.9 32.2 37.9 9.1 31.5 37.5 8.6 32.4 38.1 10.6 32.4 37.1 14.1 32.7 37.8 12.3 33.6 38.4 13.7 30.5 36.2 12.2 29.2 35.2 10.5 : : :
Estonia 11.2 11.7 0.6 26 27 7 27.1 28.5 6 22.9 24.3 4.1 29.5 b 31.1 b 8.1 b 29.2 31 6.2 29 30.8 6.1 29.3 31.1 6.6 31.2 33.2 6 29.9 31.8 5.7
Slovenia 10.1 10.8 1 24.7 b 26.6 b 2.1 b 25.2 27.2 2.9 27.4 29.5 4.5 28.2 30.6 4.6 29.5 32.1 4.5 29.3 32.1 3.8 28.9 31.5 4.8 30.4 33.2 4.6 32 34.8 5.4
Czechia 20.2 24.1 3.7 21.7 25.5 3.6 21.2 24.7 3.5 21.2 24.6 4 21.3 25.1 4.1 22.1 26.1 3.9 24.2 28.4 4.7 25.6 29.9 4.7 26.8 31.2 4.9 27.3 31.9 5.4
Hungary 6.3 6.7 0.6 6.2 6.6 0.7 6.2 6.6 0.8 7.5 8 0.8 7.2 7.6 1.5 8.2 8.8 2 8.5 9 2.5 9.1 9.8 2.5 25 26.4 9.4 23.9 25.1 8.8
Lithuania 8.6 8.8 0 24.4 b 25 b 2 b 24.6 25.3 1.5 19.2 b 19.6 b 1.4 b 19.1 19.7 0.5 20.1 20.7 5.6 22.7 23.4 3.5 23 23.8 3.8 24.3 25 4.4 24.5 25.1 4.2
Italy 19 21.7 6.7 16.6 18.9 5.6 15.7 18.3 3.9 15.4 17.8 4.7 15.5 18 4.2 15.5 18.2 4.3 14.9 17.3 4.9 15.3 17.7 5.5 14.9 17.1 6.6 14.2 16.2 6.9
North Macedonia : : : : : : 11.8 11.9 0 12.3 12.5 0.7 18.2 b 18.3 b 8.1 b 13.9 14 5.3 14.4 14.5 0 15.8 15.9 5.7 16.3 16.4 0 13.6 13.8 0
Poland 10.6 b 11 b 0.7 b 10.3 10.9 0.1 10.6 11.2 0 11.3 11.9 0.6 11.6 12.2 1 12.9 13.6 1 14.2 15 1.6 14.6 15.3 0.9 14.4 15.2 0.4 15 15.8 1.3
Slovakia 11.4 12.4 0.8 12.2 13.2 1.7 12.1 13.1 0.8 11.5 12.6 0.5 11.6 12.5 0.8 11.2 12.2 1.2 11.4 12.5 1.2 11.7 12.7 1.5 12.7 13.7 0.9 14 15.1 1.5
Greece 11.7 13.4 4.3 11.2 13 3.3 10.8 12.7 2.7 9.8 11.4 3.5 10.5 12.2 3.6 9.9 11.8 2.6 10.2 12.1 2.8 10.3 12.3 2.7 10.4 12.4 3.1 10.7 12.4 4.2
Bulgaria 9.9 10.3 0 9.6 10 0 10.4 10.8 0 9.4 9.7 0.4 9.8 10.2 0.5 10.7 11.2 0.4 10.5 b 11 b 1.1 b 11.1 11.6 0.6 11.5 12 0.9 11.5 12 1.2
Croatia 9.1 9.3 1.8 8.6 8.9 0.9 8.1 8.3 1.4 8.4 8.7 1 9.1 9.3 3 10.1 10.3 4.9 10.4 10.6 2.7 11 11.3 0.8 11.6 12 1.3 12 12.3 1.6
Latvia 5.6 6.2 1.3 9.8 10.8 2.8 13.1 14.6 2.7 13.2 14.8 2.4 12.2 13.6 2.5 11.1 12.5 2 9.6 10.7 1.5 10.2 11.4 1.4 9.9 11.1 1.3 9.6 10.8 1
Turkey 6.1 6.5 4.4 6.2 6.6 5 6.9 7.3 5.7 7.1 7.7 5.1 7.4 7.8 6.1 7.9 8.3 6.7 8.2 8.7 6.6 8.4 8.9 6.8 9.5 10.2 7.6 9.9 10.9 7.4
Romania 5 5.1 0.9 4.9 5 0 4.8 4.9 2.8 5 5.1 1.5 5.2 5.3 2 5.5 5.5 2.9 6.3 6.4 0 6.9 7 1.8 7.3 7.4 1.8 7.7 7.8 2.6
Kosovo (under United Nations Security Council Resolution 1244/99) : : : : : : : : : : : : : : : : : : : : : : : : 6.8 6.8 0.9 : : :
Serbia : : : : : : : : : : : : 5.3 5.5 0 5 5.2 0.5 5.1 5.2 0.9 4.3 4.5 0 5.4 5.6 0 5.8 6.1 0
Montenegro : : : : : : : : : 15.2 16.1 4.2 8.5 9.1 1 9.6 10 3.4 7.9 8.3 1.4 4.9 5.2 1 4.1 4.3 0 4.2 4.4 1.1

hometruths

That’s interesting thanks. Fairly constant.
% of tenants living in underoccupied properties is interesting. Consistently one of the highest in the EU.
Doesn’t make sense.

Timing belt

schmittel wrote: »

That’s interesting thanks. Fairly constant.
% of tenants living in underoccupied properties is interesting. Consistently one of the highest in the EU.
Doesn’t make sense.

The 69.6% breakdown by family type is as follows:
Total Single person with dependent children Two adults with one dependent child Two adults with two dependent children Two adults with three or more dependent children
2019 69.6 51.4 67.2 75.7 56
2018 71.4 45.2 67.1 78.6 58.5
2017 69.6 43.3 71.5 75.7 55
2016 70.4 48.2 77.7 77 54.1
2015 70.5 45.9 78.6 77.6 57.4
2014 69.7 49.6 74.1 76.1 52.7
2013 71.9 52.5 78.2 77 57.9
2012 72.5 50.5 79.7 78.9 61.7
2011 71.9 52.5 75.6 77.9 60.1
2010 72.5 50.1 76.3 81 57.7

hometruths

Timing belt wrote: »

The 69.6% breakdown by family type is as follows:]

Incomplete?

Timing belt

Rural breakdown

TIME 2010 2010 2010 2011 2011 2011 2012 2012 2012 2013 2013 2013 2014 2014 2014 2015 2015 2015 2016 2016 2016 2017 2017 2017 2018 2018 2018 2019 2019 2019
DEG_URB (Labels) Cities Towns and suburbs Rural areas Cities Towns and suburbs Rural areas Cities Towns and suburbs Rural areas Cities Towns and suburbs Rural areas Cities Towns and suburbs Rural areas Cities Towns and suburbs Rural areas Cities Towns and suburbs Rural areas Cities Towns and suburbs Rural areas Cities Towns and suburbs Rural areas Cities Towns and suburbs Rural areas
GEO (Labels)
Malta 68.4 76.6 : u 70.1 79.4 : u 67.9 b 74.2 b : u 68.4 71.3 : u 68.4 75.2 89.2 u 67 75.2 92.9 u 67.3 74.9 92.7 u 71.4 79.1 : u 72.2 84.5 : u 71.7 79.9 : u
Cyprus 73.5 69.8 64.4 72.2 72.2 64.6 73 b 68.2 b 68.8 b 73.5 68.3 68.4 71.8 68.3 67.1 74 66.9 69.3 72.1 65.1 68.7 71.7 68.1 72.8 72.7 68.6 72.7 70.2 70.3 71.8
Ireland 66.4 71.6 78.3 66.6 70.3 77.8 67.1 b 71.5 b 78 b 67.4 68.4 78.3 63.2 65.2 79.9 63.6 65.2 82.6 61.8 68.4 83.5 58.1 67.1 81.4 61 70.4 81.1 58.5 67.6 80.6
Spain 58.4 61.2 69.6 51.7 b 52.4 b 62.1 b 53.9 b 59 b 63.8 b 53.1 57.7 63.5 51.7 60.8 64.5 52.8 59.3 66.6 51.7 55.7 63.7 52.2 56.2 62.9 51.5 57.2 65 51.1 54.6 64
Netherlands 58.7 66.7 71 57.7 68.4 71.8 53.2 b 65.3 b 70.2 b 48.5 61.2 64.3 46.5 56.2 63.4 44.3 56.5 61.9 45.1 b 58.7 b 60 b 46.3 61.2 62.2 47.1 63.4 60.7 47.5 60.3 63.3
Belgium 57.9 74.3 78.7 64.9 80.1 83.4 58.5 b 79.2 b 80.1 b 56.7 79.6 78.3 57.9 78.2 76.5 55.3 76.9 80.4 47.9 b 74.3 b 76.5 b 47.9 71 72.9 42.1 64.5 66.5 37.1 b 59.8 b 65.2 b
Norway 47.3 59.4 60.4 47 58.7 57.9 47.7 b 59.4 b 58.9 b 47.5 56.8 60.4 : : : 37.2 55.6 65.4 37.3 55.7 64.9 38.1 56 65 36.6 54.3 63.5 36.9 53.8 62.1
Finland 38.2 46.2 57 36.9 46.7 55.6 37.1 b 45.7 b 56.4 b 37.9 52.7 59.9 36.4 50.9 60.1 35.6 52.2 60.9 35.4 52.2 59.2 : : : 33.5 51.7 59.8 35.2 52 59.2
Luxembourg 43.8 68.8 73.4 44.6 68.1 74.1 33.3 b 54.5 b 71.1 b 33.7 51.2 71.3 35.7 53.1 68.4 31.2 50.8 66.8 31.5 b 51.2 b 63.6 b 38.3 51.9 64.4 33.7 49.6 65.4 33.6 52.3 66.6
Switzerland 36.9 54.5 52.3 38 55.4 54.8 35.3 b 50 b 62.4 b 32.4 51.1 59.8 32.9 b 50.1 b 59.8 b 31.3 48.6 59.1 32.1 48.4 60.2 32.3 48.3 60.5 30.8 48.3 60.3 30.8 47.2 59.4
European Union (EU6-1958, EU9-1973, EU10-1981, EU12-1986, EU15-1995, EU25-2004, EU27-2007, EU28-2013, EU27-2020) 30.1 e 41.8 e 33.6 e 29.6 e 41 e 34.1 e 29.4 e 37.4 e 40.1 e 29.4 e 37.3 e 39.7 e 29.7 e 38 e 40 e 30 e 37.3 e 40 e 30.2 e 36.6 e 39.5 e 32.5 e 38.1 e 40.4 e 31.3 e 37.6 e 41 e 30.4 e 37.9 e 41.1 e
European Union - 28 countries (2013-2020) 30.1 41.8 33.6 e 29.6 41 34.1 e 29.4 37.4 40.1 e 29.4 37.3 39.7 e 29.7 38 40 e 30 37.3 40 e 30.2 36.6 39.5 e 32.5 38.1 40.4 e 31.3 37.6 41 e 30.4 e 37.9 e 41.1 e
Euro area - 18 countries (2014) 32.8 43.5 44.9 e 32.4 42.7 44.7 e 30.8 40.5 48.2 e 30.9 39.6 47.7 e 30.8 39.7 48.2 e 31.2 38.3 47.7 e 31.1 37.9 45.7 e 31 37.7 46.4 e 30.9 37.9 46.9 e 29.5 37.3 47.7 e
Euro area (EA11-1999, EA12-2001, EA13-2007, EA15-2008, EA16-2009, EA17-2011, EA18-2014, EA19-2015) 33.1 e 43.5 e 45.8 e 32.5 e 42.7 e 45.2 e 30.9 e 40.5 e 48.5 e 31 e 39.7 e 48 e 30.8 e 39.7 e 48.2 e 31.1 e 38.3 e 47.3 e 31 e 37.9 e 45.4 e 30.9 e 37.7 e 46.1 e 30.8 e 37.9 e 46.6 e 29.4 e 37.3 e 47.4 e
Euro area - 19 countries (from 2015) 32.6 43.5 44 e 32.3 42.7 44.3 e 30.7 40.4 47.9 e 30.7 39.6 47.3 e 30.6 39.6 47.8 e 31.1 38.3 47.3 e 31 37.9 45.4 e 30.9 37.7 46.1 e 30.8 37.9 46.6 e 29.4 37.3 47.4 e
Portugal 18.7 25.1 35.3 26.4 35.5 49 29 b 36.1 b 46.2 b 27.8 38.2 49.1 30.4 39.4 49.8 29.6 38.9 48.7 30.1 37.7 48.5 29.6 37.1 48.3 28.2 37.2 48.4 29.1 37.5 49.7
Slovenia 8.8 9.6 10.9 22.6 b 24.3 b 25.9 b 24.2 b 24.9 b 25.8 b 25.9 26.9 28.4 25.5 28.2 29.3 27.6 29.7 30.1 27.7 28.2 30.8 25.8 29.3 29.9 27.9 29.9 31.7 27.2 31.5 34.5
Sweden 25.3 38.7 44.4 22.3 37.6 43.6 22 b 38.2 b 44.4 b 26.1 41.9 52 24.6 42.3 54.8 24.5 42.8 53.9 24.3 42.1 50.4 28.9 42.9 48.7 27.3 41.5 49.8 26.9 42.4 50.1
Denmark 30.6 49.3 55.2 31 52.4 55.2 31.4 b 48.8 b 58 b 28.9 46.1 57.2 29.3 47.9 56.7 28.1 49.2 54.9 26.5 48.2 56.6 26.9 47.2 56.1 24.4 45.4 55.3 26.6 48.1 56
France 29.5 49.3 54.8 31.3 51.5 55.7 33.3 b 45.7 b 54.8 b 34.6 45 56.7 34.3 46.1 55.3 34 45.8 54.6 34.1 44.5 54.8 33.8 44.2 55.4 33 46.5 56.7 26.6 48.8 56.9
European Union - 27 countries (from 2020) 27.9 e 40.8 e 32.1 e 27.7 e 40.1 e 32.2 e 26.3 e 35.3 e 38.4 e 26.5 e 34.8 e 38 e 26.5 e 35.1 e 38 e 26.8 e 34.4 e 38.2 e 26.9 e 34.3 e 37.2 e 27 e 34 e 38.2 e 27.1 e 34.6 e 39.2 e 25.9 e 34.3 e 39.9 e
Hungary 6.2 5.3 6.8 7.3 5.2 6 6.7 b 6.3 b 5.8 b 7.4 8.6 6.6 6.8 8.3 6.5 6.9 8.8 8.9 7.1 9.1 9 6.9 10.7 9.6 21.3 27 26.7 22.6 23.9 25.3
Germany (until 1990 former territory of the FRG) 27.2 45.2 44.7 27.3 45.5 44.5 21.7 b 41.6 b 48.4 b 22.7 40.4 46.5 24.1 40.8 48.1 22.6 40.6 47.6 22.6 39.3 48.2 21.8 39.5 49.7 23 39.6 50.1 22.1 39.7 48.7
Estonia 6.1 12.6 15.6 18.2 20 33.4 18.7 b 28 b 35.4 b 15.7 22.4 30.5 21.7 b 30.7 b 37.1 b 19.2 29.8 39.7 19.6 30.3 38.7 19.7 31 38.9 23.4 38.1 44.1 21.9 36.9 43.8
Lithuania 5.3 : 11 16.6 b : 30.2 b 17.1 b 18.4 b 32.7 b 11.8 b 17.1 b 26.2 b 11.5 15.5 26.8 13.9 19.8 25 15.7 14.4 28.6 15.6 15.6 29 16.6 32.2 30.1 17.2 22 30.3
Czechia 13.5 21.5 25.5 13.3 23.2 28.2 12.3 b 20.2 b 28.8 b 12.2 19.1 30.2 12.4 20 30.1 13.1 20 31.4 13.3 21.9 34.9 14.2 24.1 36.8 15.5 24.8 38 16 25.2 38.6
Italy 13.9 22.8 23.2 12.4 18.8 22.1 12 17.2 21.7 12.4 15.8 22.8 11.4 17.5 21.6 11.4 b 16.4 b 20.6 b 11.8 15.7 17.9 12.5 15.6 18.7 12.8 15.2 17.4 13.8 14.3 14.9
Austria 19.5 45.6 48.4 16.7 40.9 49.2 14.8 33.4 48.1 14.4 32.2 43.6 14.4 31.3 43 13.5 33.5 42.7 15.4 31.2 43.1 14.1 31.5 44.5 14.2 32 43.7 13.1 30.7 42.7
North Macedonia : : : : : : : : : : : : : : : : : : 9.3 15.9 16.7 11.6 17.2 18 12.6 17.6 18.7 10.5 15.7 14.3
Poland 7.3 15.6 11.9 7.8 13.7 11.5 7.1 b 11.7 b 12.8 b 7.4 12.7 13.4 8 12.2 14.2 9.2 14.4 14.9 10 17.3 15.7 10.3 17.4 16.4 9.4 17.3 16.9 9.8 17.2 18.1
Croatia 4.9 13.8 9.8 4.8 10.8 10.2 4.9 b 9 b 9.6 b 4.7 9.6 9.7 6 9 10.8 5 10.5 12.5 5.5 11.2 12.8 6.6 13.3 12.1 7 13.8 13.4 8.5 13.8 13.1
Greece 9.5 16.8 12.7 8.2 14.9 12.9 8.1 b 12.2 b 13.6 b 7.7 9 12.1 7.4 10.4 13.6 6.5 9.8 13.7 6.8 9.9 14.4 7 9.7 14.8 7.1 10 15.4 8.1 11.3 13.2
Slovakia 5.3 11.6 15.2 6.3 11.6 16.2 5.8 b 11.6 b 15.9 b 4.5 10.6 15.7 7.7 6.9 17.7 6.9 6.6 17.3 7 7.8 17 7.7 7.7 17.2 7.9 8.1 19 7.4 9 21.2
Latvia 3.8 3.2 7.4 8.1 11.3 11.2 11 b 11 b 15.5 b 9 13.7 16.9 8 12 16.1 6.4 10.2 15.6 5.6 10.1 13.8 6 11.4 14.5 5.2 10.2 15.3 5.1 9.3 15.2
Serbia : : : : : : : : : : : : 3.6 7 5.6 3.8 6.7 4.8 3.7 5.9 5.8 2.7 5.9 4.6 3.1 6.5 6.9 4.1 5.7 7.5
Bulgaria 3.9 9.9 15.3 3.9 8.7 14.7 4 b 10.9 b 18.1 b 2.8 9.6 17.5 2.9 10.2 17.4 3.6 12.4 18.9 3.9 b 11.8 b 18.6 b 3.5 12.3 20.5 3.6 13.2 21.4 3.7 14 20.7
Romania 2.7 2 6.5 2.4 0.5 6.5 2.7 b 5.4 b 6.2 b 2.5 5.6 6.5 2 5.3 7.3 1.6 5.7 8.2 1.8 6.9 8.9 2.8 6.6 9.7 3 7.8 9.6 3.3 8.1 10.4
European Union - 27 countries (2007-2013) 30.2 42 34 e 29.7 41.2 34.5 e 29.5 37.6 40.6 e 29.6 37.6 40.1 e 29.8 38.2 40.4 e 30.1 37.5 40.3 e 30.3 36.8 39.8 e 32.6 38.3 40.8 e 31.5 37.8 41.3 e : : :
United Kingdom 40.8 53.1 53 39.8 47.6 59.2 43.9 b 52.7 b 68.2 b 43.7 54.8 65.9 45 58.4 69.3 44.9 58.7 64.1 44.9 55.4 70.4 56.8 b 68.5 b 74.1 b 50.5 60.6 70.7 : : :
Iceland 28.4 : 42.1 28.3 : 39.2 27.8 b : 38.1 b 28.4 : 39.7 28.5 31 51.1 27.4 33.5 53.9 29.3 31.7 54.3 25.5 29.1 47.2 25.8 24.8 42.3 : : :

Timing belt

schmittel wrote: »

Incomplete?

I didn't want to be filling the boards with data.....

https://ec.europa.eu/eurostat/databrowser/view/ILC_LVHO50B__custom_477368/default/table?lang=en

Timing belt

Breakdown by age

https://ec.europa.eu/eurostat/databrowser/view/ilc_lvho50a/default/table?lang=en

Timing belt

The data is telling us that we are consistent over the past 10 years and that most of the under-occupied houses are in rural areas with people 65+

fliball123

schmittel wrote: »

That’s interesting thanks. Fairly constant.
% of tenants living in underoccupied properties is interesting. Consistently one of the highest in the EU.
Doesn’t make sense.

Even if people are living in houses that are under occupied what do you think the people who live in such a manner do tell another family to move in with them. I know I wouldnt want anyone else living in my house except my family

hometruths

fliball123 wrote: »

Even if people are living in houses that are under occupied what do you think the people who live in such a manner do tell another family to move in with them. I know I wouldnt want anyone else living in my house except my family

Seems I might have been wrong to give you the benefit of the doubt earlier, maybe you weren’t being sarcastic.