Rearing calves

happylad

Hi Everyone.

Happy new year. I have a suckler farm with calving due to start in a couple of weeks. I was thinking of buying a couple of calves to rear just to see how it goes. I was thinking of getting 10 to start. I have a house that I must set up if I am goin doing it. I would be rearing them with milk replacer. I work off farm full time as well but was just goin to see how this would go.

Any thoughts on this. Would it be worth doing.

amacca

happylad wrote: »

Hi Everyone.

Happy new year. I have a suckler farm with calving due to start in a couple of weeks. I was thinking of buying a couple of calves to rear just to see how it goes. I was thinking of getting 10 to start. I have a house that I must set up if I am goin doing it. I would be rearing them with milk replacer. I work off farm full time as well but was just goin to see how this would go.

Any thoughts on this. Would it be worth doing.

I personally don't think so although 10 is a manageable number for one man with no sickness/good housing and a decent system

Have you calves sourced at a decent price?

Have you factored in all the costs? Decent quality m8lk replaced fed at correct rates (not necessarily what label or manufacturer recommends) can be surprisingly costly and poor quality stuff isn't worth feeding to save a few quid (due to lack of thrive/scours etc)

Do you have equipment (teat feeder, tube, a basic recipe for hydration/electrolytes for scouring calves rather than paying for sachets.....I presume you do with the suckle r background

I did it for a good while and times it was at best break even when you factored in all the costs, then again perhaps there are more efficient operators out there....but that wasn't counting time.

Big factor is the quality of calves you can get, I might go at it again if I had a supply of decent calves but quality and therefore chance of making a few bob has decreased with a majority of what you can get being poor dairy x or if they are good then very costly and on the rare occasion they are not you are suspicious/paranoid why not:o

Then there's the ones that arrive lovely but go backwards because they were pumped with an uneconomic/unsustsinable level of feeding previously etc

I could be wrong but you will find it hard to get calves approaching what you would have out of your sucker herd (if its decent) at any sort of a reasonable price.......

49801

The cost of the calf first day and it’s quality are the primary success factors as said already.

Make sure to remove the feeder when feed completed. Calves will continue to suck when empty and does their stomach no good not to mention they’ll wreck the feeder. Wash feeder clean after each feed for hygiene.

happylad

Thanks amacca for your reply. To be honest I haven't looked at getting the equipment needed just yet. I fully expected that between initial outlay for equip and calves there perhaps would be nothing back on year 1. As regards calves I would be hoping to source of a mate of mine. I'd say you might be correct as regards the money back from a suc calf vrs a reared calf. Used you finish them of sell them as yearlings

happylad

Thank 49801 for your reply. Yes I would agree with your post. Its defo down to the breeding of the calf but of course this too comes at a cost

jfh

I rear some of my Suckler replacements with a feeder, sim x fr calves, pleasure to deal with but as other posters have alluded to not cheapest form of replacement.

weatherbyfoxer

happylad wrote: »

Hi Everyone.

Happy new year. I have a suckler farm with calving due to start in a couple of weeks. I was thinking of buying a couple of calves to rear just to see how it goes. I was thinking of getting 10 to start. I have a house that I must set up if I am goin doing it. I would be rearing them with milk replacer. I work off farm full time as well but was just goin to see how this would go.

Any thoughts on this. Would it be worth doing.

go for it i reckon,worst case scenario you will educate yourself a bit!..started here 10 years ago like you are saying your wishing to do. Now the sucklers are gone here and all beef is reared from calves on milk replacer.big thing is the breed,quality,and price of the calves you buy..avoid anything Jersey or Jersey x and real holstein if you can..Angus and Hereford can be picked up at value if you know where to go...id stay away from sales rings if you can and go directly to a dairy farm for the 10 in one batch if you can

happylad

Thanks weatherbyfoxer for the response. If I was to do it I would try to bring the animals all from one herd. Devil you know and all that.

Who2

Are you selling weanlings or finishing? If your selling your weanlings I’d be more inclined to stay away bucket reared calves will barely cover themselves until you put them into decent weights . If your finishing it may be an option . I tried it for a few years and they barely covered themselves, you have to look at the extra chances of bringing in diseases too. If your at weanlings I’d be more inclined to either build your no.s with more cows if that’s what your after or aim to up the quality I of what you have otherwise I’d leave it to the lads that are at it the whole time.

amacca

happylad wrote: »

Thanks amacca for your reply. To be honest I haven't looked at getting the equipment needed just yet. I fully expected that between initial outlay for equip and calves there perhaps would be nothing back on year 1. As regards calves I would be hoping to source of a mate of mine. I'd say you might be correct as regards the money back from a suc calf vrs a reared calf. Used you finish them of sell them as yearlings

The only way I could make it return even a paltry amount was if I kept them to finishing or within about 6 months of it and sell them as potential at mart when they came to a respectable weight......its a long time to wait for a return on initial outlay and it limits the numbers you can turnover that way....it was the only way I could try make the enterprise was worthwhile though....looking back on the Labour it wasn't worth it imo, my time could be spent more profitably elsewhere ...or less loss mak8ng in some instances

It seems like you've made money when you are selling until you start looking at your costs. For an amateur like me anyway, there are probably well set up specialists with a good system, close control of their costs that can make it pay mind

Now if you were getting a bit more than 3.70/3.80 a kilo base it would make more sense for a fella like me.

Base price

I did a costing exercise a few years ago. Cmr @ 24c/l (30% skim) to weaning onto grass including a intranasal vaccination (Rispoval RS+Pi3) and a dose of Bovicox, calf crunch, straw and hay was €87/head. This figure did not include Veterinary fees or any losses as we didn't have any. I also did not include the cost of heating water as we use hot water from the house that is heated by the range via an external tap.

amacca

Base price wrote: »

I did a costing exercise a few years ago. Cmr @ 24c/l (30% skim) to weaning onto grass including a intranasal vaccination (Rispoval RS+Pi3) and a dose of Bovicox, calf crunch, straw and hay was €87/head. This figure did not include Veterinary fees or any losses as we didn't have any. I also did not include the cost of heating water as we use hot water from the house that is heated by the range via an external tap.

Were you wintering them and including cost of silage/spreading dung/fertiliser etc in other figures?

weatherbyfoxer

Base price wrote: »

I did a costing exercise a few years ago. Cmr @ 24c/l (30% skim) to weaning onto grass including a intranasal vaccination (Rispoval RS+Pi3) and a dose of Bovicox, calf crunch, straw and hay was €87/head. This figure did not include Veterinary fees or any losses as we didn't have any. I also did not include the cost of heating water as we use hot water from the house that is heated by the range via an external tap.

add for example an AA or HE calf at purchase price €120-€150,surely a worth while efford?

Base price

weatherbyfoxer wrote: »

add for example an AA or HE calf at purchase price €120-€150,surely a worth while efford?

I was looking at calves on a few online marts in December and it would be a poor AAx or HEx heifer calf for €120. They were closer to €180 for heifers and add another €60+ for bulls. I talking about proper AAx and HEx out of FR dams not out of FRx or JEx dams. You will get calves cheaper in March/April when the numbers are out.
It's time the marts displayed the Dam's breed code on the mart/online information boards considering that the information is mandatory on the blue cards. Hopefully the IFJ or Agriland will write and article asking why this hasn't happened to date.

Base price

amacca wrote: »

Were you wintering them and including cost of silage/spreading dung/fertiliser etc in other figures?

I didn't include any costs other than what I posted. I just wanted to see how much it cost to rear them to weaning off cmr and out to grass.

happylad

Thanks who2 fair points to consider.

_Brian

With decent calves and serious attention to detail (and of course we all need a bit of luck) you can make modest returns rearing a few calves.

Yes, top breeding sucklers will do better on a good year but sucks will do as good as many or most suckler herds, that’s not saying allot in fairness.

I wouldn’t listen too much to lads saying it’s a waste of time, many of these are running sicker herds and at best breaking even or making small returns.

I’d probably start with less than 10 though. It can be a steep learning curve if you’ve not done it before.

Particularly for off farm workers rearing sucks is ideal, once you get them up and running they are easy managed and herded. No calving, no wicked cows, no bull, and if you loose a calf it’s small money compared to loosing a suckler calf which results in a €6-700 loss instantly as your carrying the cow for the year for nothing. Haven’t lost a suck calf here in years thankfully and the last lad only died because he somehow got himself stuck under a gate all night.

funkey_monkey

We buy in calves most years and rear them on. Pick out some ones we like and run them on for bulling.
However, the last few years we have let them go earlier for beef as the market was good or didn't want to run them on until they were springing.
We find with heifers there are a few routes to market - if they look the part they get bulled. If they don't shape up the go they either as beef or bulling heifers to someone else. Not all of them will turn out suitable - some will hold a bit too much to their dairy mother for our liking.

In terms of rearing, you need a clean shed with good ventilation and clean bedding. Insufficient ventilation will definitely give you issues with pneumonia. Must be overhead ventilation as they don't like it at their level. When you get them in you must do them for pneumonia as soon as they are off the trailer, otherwise you WILL have problems. We use normally Rispoval.

We use Blossom milk as we find it better that some of the others - a lot creamier. When they come in we also give them powder to prevent scour in the milk.

Don't be tempted to over feed them milk. They might seem like they can take more, but you need to be careful. We might keep them on milk longer than some, but usually at that stage it is once per day so not a big hassle. Also give them good clean straw to eat - much preferable to hay as it helps to prevent barrel shaping of their guts. Some sweet crunch too.

Would you consider paying a bit more to get a calf that is just off the milk? Advantage is no need to feed them milk and initially it would ease you into the system. Disadvantage is that sometimes they can be taken off milk too soon and can be difficult to get back on if you so wish. Do you have means to get at hot water easily for the milk without a long carry from the house? Docility is not something we have noticed being effected by feeding them milk or not - more depends on how you handle them in general.

They are a lot easier on the ground and if you have a nice sheltered field they will do well.

Personally, I think that 10 is probably a bit too many for the first year. 4 - 6 would be more than enough for an initial run, especially if you are giving them milk as it will need to be twice a day at the start. It can be very difficult to see what a young calf will turn out like especially if your buy through a dealer.

trg

I bought 5 for bucket feeding and 4 more that were already weaned after I weaned the first 5.

Loved it.

Was lucky though with zero illness.

Would think it was beneficial to start off nice and handy with the 5 and see how that went. Buy them strongish to reduce risk and vaccinate them as well.

Can't go too far wrong then.

Enjoyable watching them respond and grow but that's in the context that all went well.

weatherbyfoxer

Base price wrote: »

I was looking at calves on a few online marts in December and it would be a poor AAx or HEx heifer calf for €120. They were closer to €180 for heifers and add another €60+ for bulls. I talking about proper AAx and HEx out of FR dams not out of FRx or JEx dams. You will get calves cheaper in March/April when the numbers are out.
It's time the marts displayed the Dam's breed code on the mart/online information boards considering that the information is mandatory on the blue cards. Hopefully the IFJ or Agriland will write and article asking why this hasn't happened to date.

decent aa and he out of good square friesian cows are freely available at that price the end of February/march the past 2 years i found anyway.

Base price

weatherbyfoxer wrote: »

decent aa and he out of good square friesian cows are freely available at that price the end of February/march the past 2 years i found anyway.

+1

As I posted above - calf prices drop in Spring when the numbers are out.

_Brian

Base price wrote: »

+1

As I posted above - calf prices drop in Spring when the numbers are out.

I could never see the big deal with buying really early calves.
When their reared the ground is still poor so you’ve to keep them indoors throwing straw under them costing money and risking problems, and you pay more for them.

It’s different across the country but I’d say to folk to buy calves that will be ready for turnout Wien reared in your area. That will vary across the country.

happylad

Thanks everyone that has responded lots of info to take on board I am thinking that maybe start with 4/5 is a good idea and see how it goes. Like the idea of perhaps looking at calves that are off milk also.

Base price

happylad wrote: »

Thanks everyone that has responded lots of info to take on board I am thinking that maybe start with 4/5 is a good idea and see how it goes. Like the idea of perhaps looking at calves that are off milk also.

You have to think about upfront costs like preparing your shed so that it is suitable, buying a teat feeder, buying in straw, vaccines etc. A 10 teat compartment feeder is going to cost about €180 and afaik that does not include black pull through peach teats which cost about €3 each.
https://www.agridirect.ie/product/jfc-compartment-feeder-10-unit

Good loser

happylad wrote: »

Thanks everyone that has responded lots of info to take on board I am thinking that maybe start with 4/5 is a good idea and see how it goes. Like the idea of perhaps looking at calves that are off milk also.

I rear 50 or 60 per annum for many years now.
Like to buy at 2/3/4 weeks old. Feed on arrival in yard and then once a day only.
Always Provimi replacer.
A 5 gallon water boiler like in restaurant heats the water, dilute to temp required and mix with wire whisk. Then into blue 10 teat feeder or a 6 teat one.

I take to beef but would say more money selling Hers/AA as 15/17 month stores.

Definitely go for 10 (or 11 allowing for one loss).

In cabinet have a thermometer, penicllin, Nuflor or its equivalent and coccidiosis treatment.

If reasonably lucky should make €200 per head EXCLUDING fixed costs and labour/management.

amacca

I recommend the wydale blue teat feeders if you can get them....they are a bit more expensive and a bit heavy and awkward but they are solid and will last and the divisions in them mean strong calves less able to steal of weaker ones so everyone gets a decent feed...the teats that come with them are some of the best I've used once they are working.......ive used the jfc and the Milkbar ones and they weren't a patch on the wydale if that helps.

Base price

amacca wrote: »

I recommend the wydale blue teat feeders if you can get them....they are a bit more expensive and a bit heavy and awkward but they are solid and will last and the divisions in them mean strong calves less able to steal of weaker ones so everyone gets a decent feed...the teats that come with them are some of the best I've used once they are working.......ive used the jfc and the Milkbar ones and they weren't a patch on the wydale if that helps.

We don't have Wydale teat feeders but we bought a Wydale 170ltr cmr mixer about 12 years ago. If the teat feeders are as good as the mixer then it's money well spent. It has never let us down and works as good as the day we bought it. We rear c. 250 calves every year.

Anto_Meath

We rear about 50 bull calves every year, Lmx, AAx, HEx & Fr.
Try and buy the best calves you can, all the better if you can buy direct from the farm. As it takes the same money to rear them all. See what market you are aiming for, you are looking at circa €900 a head to bring them to beef.
When they are in the shed keep plenty of straw with them and a nice bit of fresh meal. Try to get them out to a sheltered paddock as soon as you can. Keep a salt lick / mineral lick with them & as said above use the better quality milk replacer to feed them. We use Volac heiferlac and are very happy with it.

davidk1394

happylad wrote: »

Hi Everyone.

Happy new year. I have a suckler farm with calving due to start in a couple of weeks. I was thinking of buying a couple of calves to rear just to see how it goes. I was thinking of getting 10 to start. I have a house that I must set up if I am goin doing it. I would be rearing them with milk replacer. I work off farm full time as well but was just goin to see how this would go.

Any thoughts on this. Would it be worth doing.

I started buying calves from a young age. It helped me to get to where I am today. As some of the previous posters said try stay away from Jersey. If you can get in contact with a few local dairy farms and try buy them directly off farm. If the farmer will hold them for the first 2 weeks that would be a help. Give them good milk replacer, a good course ration, clean hay and keep them well bedded you'll be fine. Just make sure the shed has no draughts but it has fresh air circulating. Once the first 8 weeks are over them they should be straightforward to look after.

amacca

davidk1394 wrote: »

I started buying calves from a young age. It helped me to get to where I am today. As some of the previous posters said try stay away from Jersey. If you can get in contact with a few local dairy farms and try buy them directly off farm. If the farmer will hold them for the first 2 weeks that would be a help. Give them good milk replacer, a good course ration, clean hay and keep them well bedded you'll be fine. Just make sure the shed has no draughts but it has fresh air circulating. Once the first 8 weeks are over them they should be straightforward to look after.

Not to rain on anyone's parade but personally I have found it harder and harder to find local dairy farmers that are producing a calf you would want to buy

First you couldn't trust anything that was Black/Aax to not be easy calving slow developing narrow arsed runts that you get punished for when its time to get paid

Then in recent times the Hex have been disappointing ....slow to develop, not a good frame on them, hard to bring them to weight

I'm convinced the local lads anyway are going for a calf that isn't suitable at all for rearing for beef (and what the he'll else would you be rearing the bulls out of a dairy herd for the most part for anyway)

When I think of the difference in suck calves even 20 years ago compared to now theres an awful lot of poor quality around and it can be very hard to tell at 2/3weeks what's a quality animal and what's not regardless of what it says on the cards lately

funkey_monkey

Anyone here take in BB bull calves? If so, how do you get on with them? Will be taking in some runners/lumps in the next month or so and BB seem to be the most plentiful.

weatherbyfoxer

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119899914#Comment_119899914

Wouldn't let them in the gate here again,they are alot more expensive than aa or he calves and alot harder finished

Anto_Meath

I have a bit of a gra for BBx cattle, in that I think they thrive well on my land, would often buy BBx stores and they seem to do well with me but there wouldn't be a big demand for them in the local mart . I have reared a few from calves as well, they do ok, they can be a bit soft and require a little bit more attention when they are younger than others. The better the BB are bred the more they dislike concrete, in that they can be very soft on their feet. Its true I have never seen any of them grade a 4, but from dairy cows I have never seen any of them grade an O either. Generally an R-2+ to a R+ 3= seems to be what I can get them into handy enough and they have a bigger frame to carry more weight than an AAx or Hex