Connacht Team Talk Thread VI - Some like it TOH

Robbo

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122625589#Comment_122625589

Did we do a pre-season camp in Lourdes because I've never seen an injury list that small?

realhorrorshow

First selection of the season will be very interesting, with almost the entire squad being available. I think I'd like to see:

15-9, 1-8: Cordero, Hansen, O'Conor, Forde, Bolton, Ioane, Blade, Dooley, Heffernan, Aungier, N Murray, Joyce, Prendergast, Hurley-Langton, O'Brien

16-23: Tierney-Martin, Buckley, Illo, Dowling, Oliver, Devine, Carty, Gavin

FtD v2

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122628833#Comment_122628833

I know you want to see these players push on and get international representation, but I do think Connacht are probably the most impacted of the four provinces with this tour.

Connacht realistically probably have the least depth anyway of the four, so to lose guys like Aungier, Devine, Bolton, Murray etc who look pretty nailed on as first 23 players looks tough.

SqueakyKneecap

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122629118#Comment_122629118

I think Aki, Bealham and Cordero are on player welfare stand-down at least for this weekend.

b.gud

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122629155#Comment_122629155

Aungier would be the one I'd be most concerned about as I think we have good coverage in the other positions. Having said that though I think it is good for the players overall and I'm happy for them being selected

FtD v2

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122629217#Comment_122629217

Yeah, almost would have expected Illo to be picked and Aungier, but must mean Aungier is potentially on the radar for the next level.

Zeugnis

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122629242#Comment_122629242

Illo went in 22. Aungier has progressed in the last two years and now looks to like next in line after Furlong, Bealham, and Jager. Scott Wilson probably the leading candidate among the younger cohort. So Aungier's participation here makes a lot of sense. Provided Finaly is available, we'll manage. Worst case scenario we'll have to play Illo with Lasisi.

Jordan Duggan's selection was one i didn't see coming, underlines the current scramble for props.

Zeugnis

Slightly surprised that Niall Murray wasn't selected. Connacht may not have wanted to lose two locks for the block of URC games, just a guess.

ClanofLams

Only learned this morning that this sh*t tour is happening again. Absolute joke that players are missing nearly 20% of the URC to go on some nonsense tour playing second string saffer sides. Leaving aside impact on Connacht, it totally undermines the league.

I think last time it happened in 22 some posters were justifying it as it could add depth for World Cup or some nonsense, pretty sure none of those who travelled even made World Cup.

b.gud

Nash, Crowley and Frawley would probably be the biggest successes from that tour. Crowley obviously went to the world cup not sure about the others though.

thePigeon_

Joe McCarthy also went to the RWC

FtD v2

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122629401#Comment_122629401

Yeah I think there was just a serious dearth of LHPs across all four provinces. They’ve only taken two here (Duggan and Jack Boyle) and don’t think any of the other props can prop both sides, so looks like those two will play every game. Would have thought one of Kieran Ryan, Mark Donnelly or George Hadden from Munster would have made sense but maybe there’s injuries I’m not aware of.

Would say Tom Clarkson is the guy you haven’t mentioned in the above post but who is firmly in the mix at THP after Furlong, Bealham, Jager. He’s still only 24, has good size and is dynamic. He’s quietly picked up 43 caps for Leinster and the only reason he isn’t on this tour is he’s firmly in Leinster’s first choice 23 until Furlong is back.

ClanofLams

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122629471#Comment_122629471

Should have another look before made that comment. Obviously Crowley going had far more to with his performances for Munster in winning the league especially rather than a couple of meaningless games against some of the weaker SA teams.

I’m not totally against the idea (though I don’t think it is likely to do much for the development of any player to be honest) but if it’s being done it should be as a summer thing not clashing with the league which is ridiculous.

b.gud

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122629711#Comment_122629711

Ah yeah totally not having a go at your post either I was mainly just curious about it after reading your post.

Personally I think it's good for the younger players to get some experience with what is essentially the Irish coaching team, especially now that Easterby will be taking over from Farrell. It's good for them to experience what is going to be expected of them if they do get to be part of the squad, and it's good for the management team to get a closer look at them over an extended period.

Having said that I can totally see your point, and others who have made similar points, about the timing of it. I do think this time round that there may have been a bit more liaising with the clubs about what players can be released

FtD v2

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122629711#Comment_122629711

It’s debatable if Crowley makes it without the last EI tour IMO.

Prior to that tour, he was firmly third choice at Munster and had only a handful of games. He played well on tour, but on returning to Munster (largely due to injuries) he was still playing mostly at 12 or 15. He didn’t have a sustained run at 10 for Munster till April 2022.

He was picked for the November internationals purely on the back of his successful EI tour - he had scarcely played for Munster when that squad was named. On the back of that, he debuted against Fiji and started against Australia, and acquitted himself well on both occasions. Because of those performances (and the fact he was then playing well for Munster regularly) he was picked for the 6N squad (when Joey was controversially dropped).

I think there’s a logical enough chain to this - without the EI tour I can’t see how he’s capped in the November internationals, and without that, I don’t think it’s likely he makes the 6N squad.

El_Duderino 09

Glad to see strong Connacht group in the EI squad. It represents the number of Connacht players in the last few Ireland U20 squads. Those squads have much more diverse than the senior squad dominated by leinster players.

aloooof

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122630802#Comment_122630802

Loathe to get into this, but original comment was about RWC. He still makes the RWC squad independent of the EI tour, imo.

The 3rd choice thing has been done to death, the new coaching ticket seems relevant.

In any case, I agree with the OP; even if it does advance a couple of players for Ireland, taking that many players away from the Provinces outside a test window still doesn't sit well with me.

Can particularly see what Connacht fans are irked this time round.

FtD v2

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122632441#Comment_122632441

It’s not a given he makes the RWC squad without it - there’s every chance Munster management continue to back Carbery and Healy and deploy Crowley as a utility back.

If he doesn’t make the 6N squad, he most likely doesn’t make the RWC squad.

At least half the players selected here are Academy players who simply wouldn’t have featured for their provinces over this window, whereas for the others, guys like like Alex Kendellen, Cormac Foley, Darragh Murray, Cormac Izuchukwu, Harry Sheridan, Jack Aungier, Rob Russell, Tommy O’Brien - all of these guys actually have shown on multiple occasions they can do it at a URC level. This is giving them a chance to impress the international coaches directly, and potentially push themselves further up the reckoning for a call up in November.

The timing of the tour isn’t ideal, but I can’t see any other time in the calendar that realistically works any better.

They’ve clearly liaised with the provincial coaching tickets from a long way out to flag this tour was happening and they’re making some front line internationals available too, so I don’t see what the real problem is here.

Everyone says we need to build depth - this is clearly how our international coaching staff (the group who’ve led us to back to back 6N championships, and to pushing again for #1 in the world) have chosen to do it.

aloooof

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122633122#Comment_122633122

Let’s agree to disagree FTD.

ElisaAtWar

As Robbo says we do need a new theme to the Connacht thread. So here are some ideas

I have lost my Wilkins to live

Maul? What is a maul counters Pete Wilkins

How to make no ground with Wilkins (the book)

Seven reasons to believe. The Pete Wilkins biography

Just some samples😂

RichieRich_89

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122632441#Comment_122632441

Connacht have depth in most positions players have been selected for EI in. Okay, Aungier's a loss if Bealham isn't available, but they have a lot of scrumhalves even with Devine going - Blade, Ben Murphy, Colm Reilly; and a lot of wingers and 12s, so Bolton and Gavin's absences won't be felt that much, I'd have thought.

Ulster are far harder hit, with Wilson, Sheridan, Izuchukwu and Postlethwaite gone from the starting XV or bench while they're away to the Lions and the Bulls. I'm not a fan of them being weakened like that. I think it would have been better to pick, say, Rory McGuire, Charlie Irvine, Ruadhán Quinn/Diarmuid Mangan/Lorcan McLoughlin/James McNabney and maybe Gavin Mullin/Jack Kelly from the 7s instead of that Ulster quartet who will be big losses in the URC.

ClanofLams

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122630802#Comment_122630802

Taking thirty three guys away from their provincial teams causing them to miss nearly 20% of the league to play second string teams who wouldn’t be competitive in the league is ridiculous and undermines the league in a significant way.

The Munster coaching staff aren’t idiots - Crowley was young but was always going to get plenty of chances. Suggesting him playing two games against second string South African teams, one of which was a fifty point hammering, was the difference between him going to RWC 2023 or not is frankly ludicrous.

FtD v2

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122636137#Comment_122636137

In your opinion - prior to going on that tour he’d started 5 games at 10 for Munster and was firmly third choice. In fact, he most likely went on the tour instead of Ben Healy because he was third choice. Even after he returned, he was still not being picked regularly at 10 until the following April.

Saying “taking 33 guys away from their provincial teams…” is a hyperbolic statement too. Half the guys taken are academy players or guys with less than a handful of appearances for their provinces who wouldn’t have been involved in these games.

KBurke85

Anyways back to Connacht

Team named

CONNACHT RUGBY MATCHDAY 23 VS MUNSTER RUGBY 
17:30, Saturday 21st September 2024 @ Thomond Park  

Number/Name/Caps (* denotes uncapped) 

15. Santiago Cordero (2)
14. Mack Hansen (32)
13. Piers O’Conor *
12. Cathal Forde (31)
11. Shayne Bolton (13)
10. Josh Ioane *
9. Ben Murphy *
1. Denis Buckley (248)
2. Dave Heffernan (200)
3. Jack Aungier (67)
4. Joe Joyce (21)
5. Darragh Murray (25)
6. Josh Murphy (18)
7. Conor Oliver (84)
8. Cian Prendergast (68) (C)

16. Dylan Tierney-Martin (36)
17. Peter Dooley (37)
18. Sam Illo (22)
19. Oisín Dowling (59)
20. Shamus Hurley-Langton (40)
21. Caolin Blade (192)
22. David Hawkshaw (30)
23. Sean Jansen (8)

ClanofLams

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122636175#Comment_122636175

I didn’t look through other provincial selections, from a Connacht perspective, it’s seven senior squad members, who have been training for the last couple of months and will now miss nearly 20% of the URC league so they can partake in one or two challenge games against teams who wouldn’t be competitive in the league.

Zeugnis

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122636203#Comment_122636203

Starting against Munster, quite a debut for Ben Murphy! Anyway, looks like a strong team, and a very interesting back three :)

FtD v2

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122636214#Comment_122636214

Yeah I get it - I’ve posted here and on the Ireland thread how i think Ulster and Connacht are worst affected here, but it’s just a reality. I can’t see another time in the calendar when this would work though and this is just part of the player development path for these players.

Connacht have sufficient depth to cover every player who is travelling here though.

At LHP you still have Buckley & Dooley (both who are rated more highly than Duggan), at THP you still have Bealham and Illo.

At lock you’re losing Darragh Murray but still have 4 other senior contracted locks plus Josh Murphy.

In the back row you’re losing Jansen, but still have 7 other fit and healthy senior contracted locks.

At 9, losing Devine but still have Blade, Murphy and Reilly.

You’re losing two players from the centre/wing in Gavin & Bolton, but still have multiple options to cover them in any possible position.

Cherryson

Munster: Mike Haley; Thaakir Abrahams, Tom Farrell, Alex Nankivell, Shane Daly; Billy Burns, Craig Casey; Jeremy Loughman, Diarmuid Barron (C), John Ryan; Jean Kleyn, Fineen Wycherley; Ruadhán Quinn, John Hodnett, Gavin Coombes.

Replacements: Niall Scannell, Josh Wycherley, Oli Jager, Alex Kendellen, Jack O’Donoghue, Ethan Coughlan, Tony Butler, Seán O’Brien.

Hopefully Tom Farrell won't demonstrate tomorrow why letting him go was a bad idea!

AccidentallyOnside

I was thinking exactly that on Farrell; can well imagine him having an absolute barn burner of a game tomorrow. I always remember Sammy Arnold used to go after Munster like they'd pissed on his cornflakes and can see Tom wanting to prove Wilkins wrong for letting him go.

ClanofLams

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122636465#Comment_122636465

Darragh Murray probably has the highest ceiling of any second row on the books at the moment. One of the other four options you mention is David O’Connor who respectfully never made much of an impression at Ulster and has been playing at Ealing the last couple of years. So yeah it’s ‘depth’ I guess but it’s nowhere near the same quality.

Losing four guys from the first 23 of the season so they can play a challenge game or two against sub league standard teams is a farce and a reflection of the disdain IRFU has for provincial rugby and the supporters of provinces, in particular Connacht and Ulster.