Providing mains power to a shed

punisher5112

2011 wrote: »

Electricians that work for large industrial electrical contractors are practically guaranteed good wages, good working conditions and constant employment. So in order to entice a descent electrician to wire a garden shed they it needs to pay better than the alternative. Otherwise why take the risk of working for yourself?

For those of you that suggest that €1,500 is way off the mark, what is the basis of your pricing?

Regarding materials, I would estimate €500 to cover the following:
• SWA 3 x 6 mm sq. from main distribution board distribution board to shed 10m (to get outside) + 6m to shed + 2m to board in shed
• Small IP rated distribution board + RCBO + 2 MCBs
• Cable glands, screws, busbar, bits and bobs
• Steel conduit and accessories for same
• Sockets metal clad & surface mounted boxes x 2
• IP rated LED lights x 2
• Cabling within shed
• Consumables (such as diamond tipped grinder blade, drill bits)
• Materials for bonding (lugs, cable etc)
• IP rated light switch x 1

The suggest price of €1,500 would include VAT at 13.5%
This means that it is only worth €1,321 to the REC.
Take away the materials and this is €821
At €50 per hour this equates to 16.5 hours work, so 2 days really.

Now €50 per hour may seem like a lot but out of that the following has to be paid:

• The electrician’s hourly rate
• The electrician’s pension payments
• The electrician’s holiday payment
• The electrician’s sick pay
• Accountant
• Insurance
• Van, and all associated costs
• RECI
• Tools and test equipment including wear and tear and all of the stuff that “goes missing”
• Test certificate / test record sheets
• The costs associated with all bad debts – many simply will not pay all or some of the bill just because they know they can get away with it.
• Time associated with pricing the job and time is money!
• Costs associated with purchasing the materials and time lost

So when all is said and done I would consider €1,500 including VAT a fair price to get this work done properly by a professional.

I know that there are easier ways for a descent electrician to make that kind of money.
Pay peanuts and you get monkeys.

Not always true I'm afraid.

I've come across many over my time that hadn't a breeze.

Deagol

2011 wrote: »

Electricians that work for large industrial electrical contractors are practically guaranteed good wages, good working conditions and constant employment. So in order to entice a descent electrician to wire a garden shed they it needs to pay better than the alternative. Otherwise why take the risk of working for yourself?

For those of you that suggest that €1,500 is way off the mark, what is the basis of your pricing?

Regarding materials, I would estimate €500 to cover the following:
• SWA 3 x 6 mm sq. from main distribution board distribution board to shed 10m (to get outside) + 6m to shed + 2m to board in shed
• Small IP rated distribution board + RCBO + 2 MCBs
• Cable glands, screws, busbar, bits and bobs
• Steel conduit and accessories for same
• Sockets metal clad & surface mounted boxes x 2
• IP rated LED lights x 2
• Cabling within shed
• Consumables (such as diamond tipped grinder blade, drill bits)
• Materials for bonding (lugs, cable etc)
• IP rated light switch x 1

The suggest price of €1,500 would include VAT at 13.5%
This means that it is only worth €1,321 to the REC.
Take away the materials and this is €821
At €50 per hour this equates to 16.5 hours work, so 2 days really.

Now €50 per hour may seem like a lot but out of that the following has to be paid:

• The electrician’s hourly rate
• The electrician’s pension payments
• The electrician’s holiday payment
• The electrician’s sick pay
• Accountant
• Insurance
• Van, and all associated costs
• RECI
• Tools and test equipment including wear and tear and all of the stuff that “goes missing”
• Test certificate / test record sheets
• The costs associated with all bad debts – many simply will not pay all or some of the bill just because they know they can get away with it.
• Time associated with pricing the job and time is money!
• Costs associated with purchasing the materials and time lost

So when all is said and done I would consider €1,500 including VAT a fair price to get this work done properly by a professional.

I know that there are easier ways for a descent electrician to make that kind of money.
Pay peanuts and you get monkeys.

That's some expensive shop you're going to. And some wage - ~$2k a week or €96k a year.

2011

Deagol wrote: »

That's some expensive shop you're going to. And some wage - ~$2k a week or €96k a year.

What is your estimate for material cost?
I agree I could get low quality materials for less but that results in call backs so it’s a false economy.

Also regarding wages read my post carefully and you will immediately see that the wage is less than the going rate for an experienced industrial electrician once all costs are deducted.

Also I might add that I was clearing over €1k per week in the late nineties working as an electrician on an oil rig (in dry dock) and in oil refineries.

sheff the ref

You may not pay it, I may not pay it,

But if Joe Bloggs is willing to pay, then the job is secured

We have all heard of cases where tradesmen shoved up their price by 20-30% almost to avoid getting the job and still ended up getting it.

Louis Friend wrote: »

Eh, no it’s not

sheff the ref

There is significant variation on the price of identical materials. Some suppliers have a heavier mark-up than others.

It is often better to get the electrician to write a list, do you own shopping based on his recommended specs and price accordingly. That lets him with the labour only

However it does remove his capacity to put a margin on the materials.

2011 wrote: »

What is your estimate for material cost?
I agree I could get low quality materials for less but that results in call backs so it’s a false economy.

Also regarding wages read my post carefully and you will immediately see that the wage is less than the going rate for an experienced industrial electrician once all costs are deducted.

Also I might add that I was clearing over €1k per week in the late nineties working as an electrician on an oil rig (in dry dock) and in oil refineries.

Deagol

2011 wrote: »

What is your estimate for material cost?
I agree I could get low quality materials for less but that results in call backs so it’s a false economy.

Also regarding wages read my post carefully and you will immediately see that the wage is less than the going rate for an experienced industrial electrician once all costs are deducted.

Also I might add that I was clearing over €1k per week in the late nineties working as an electrician on an oil rig (in dry dock) and in oil refineries.

There's a difference between low quality and low prices. A lot of what you've mentioned doesn't require pricier parts as they are minimum quality required parts (i.e cable, cable glands etc). I find a lot of trades people are lazy and go to their nearest and friendliest hardware store and buy everything there. I'm forever surprised at the number of trades people at the counter of my local DIY store. Handy place but prices are not competitive. I suspect they don't about costs because they are passing them onto the client.

I'd be surprised if I couldn't get everything on your list for €350 max.

You might have got 1k clear in the 90's but I doubt you'd manage much bettert than it now. Wages in that sector are not what they were. Was talking to an experienced sparks offshore in August and he's on c.£75k gross - 3 on, 3 off.

And I can 100% guarantee you there are sparks getting nowhere near the numbers you are quoting in industrial locations. That would be based on midwest though - perhaps in Dublin it's higher. I would say there are definitely sectors that pay better - though they do pay higher all round anyway (pharma springs to mind).

Anyway - I would agree with what a lot of posters have said - many clients are prepared to pay for work without getting more than 1 quote so many trades people get away with what I consider uncompetitive quotes. But if clients are stupid enough to pay it then more power to the trades!

Turbulent Bill

Thanks for all the responses, gives me a general guide for what it should cost. I'll shop around and see what comes back.

My expectation here is that the electrician will do the complete installation. I don't see any value in sourcing materials myself, and having one supplier for the whole job reduces arguments if something goes wrong.

2011

Deagol wrote: »

There's a difference between low quality and low prices. A lot of what you've mentioned doesn't require pricier parts as they are minimum quality required parts (i.e cable, cable glands etc).

That is true for some parts but not the light fittings, sockets, and protective devices.

I find a lot of trades people are lazy and go to their nearest and friendliest hardware store and buy everything there.

Not quite. Registered electrical contractors have accounts with electrical wholesalers. This minimizes paperwork, reduces cost and allows for free delivery to site. I know because I was a REC and I am still in the game although a very different end of it now.

I'd be surprised if I couldn't get everything on your list for €350 max.

I admit you could be right. I don’t buy this kit anymore.

You might have got 1k clear in the 90's but I doubt you'd manage much bettert than it now. Wages in that sector are not what they were.

To be fair I picked a lucrative example at the higher end of the scale as this was my own experience. I did this work in Holland and Germany. These rates have increased since then.

And I can 100% guarantee you there are sparks getting nowhere near the numbers you are quoting in industrial locations. That would be based on midwest though - perhaps in Dublin it's higher.

I didn’t provide rates for your average industrial sparks in ireland. My point is that this work carries additional risk and hassle, this would be reflected in the price. As you say there are regional variations in rates.

Remember that charging €50 per hour for labour does not mean that the electrician doing the work will actually get paid anything remotely close to that.
There are a lot of overheads to be paid out of this. I believe that many garages charge this rate and the mechanics are typically not paid as much as electricians (there are exceptions).

I would say there are definitely sectors that pay better - though they do pay higher all round anyway (pharma springs to mind).

Exactly, so why do domestic wiring for lower pay?
I remember wiring houses. I spent a lot of time moving furniture, lifting floorboards and crawling through attics. It was hard work!

Treseemme.

kramer1 wrote: »

If its one of those all metal sheds, would you have to bond it? Run a 10 sq?

I would , either that or 10sq swa and take it off that

The bond needs to be connected to structural steel and not a tec screw and metal sheet type job

Is there any specific regulations on this, I've never noticed anything re: sheds and bonding?

cruizer101

2011 wrote: »

So when all is said and done I would consider €1,500 including VAT a fair price to get this work done properly by a professional.

I know that there are easier ways for a descent electrician to make that kind of money.
Pay peanuts and you get monkeys.

Nice to see a breakdown. I'm far from expert but had thought 1500 seemed high. I'd ballparked it myself at bit under 1,000 based on few hundred for materials and a days work at 50ish an hour.

Would there be two days work in it? obviously dependent enough on the setup, but I would have thought for standard enough situation a days work would cover it.

Treseemme.

cruizer101 wrote: »

Nice to see a breakdown. I'm far from expert but had thought 1500 seemed high. I'd ballparked it myself at bit under 1,000 based on few hundred for materials and a days work at 50ish an hour.

Would there be two days work in it? obviously dependent enough on the setup, but I would have thought for standard enough situation a days work would cover it.

I would have it nearer the 1000 as it's close to the house

You could run a bit of tray around the top and do the drops in round pvc conduit if that provides enough mechanical protection

Half the time is taken up outside the shed connecting

Johnner2

Telephone numbers, buy an extension lead😁

Trilogy

We got it done 2 years ago by a fully qualified electrician...just checked the invoice and for supply and fit new cables, fuse board, light and switches and sockets (2 x 2 sockets) was €343 incl vat.

Hope that helps

2011

Treseemme. wrote: »

I would have it nearer the 1000 as it's close to the house

Two things to consider:

1) There is normally a concrete path around the house. This will have to be cut with a diamond tipped blade and chased.

2) The SWA will have to be routed from the outside of the house at the rear I would think to the distribution board which is normally at the front of the house. This could mean lifting floor boards, chasing walls etc.

I would expect the above tasks to be time consuming.

Suckit

Trilogy wrote: »

We got it done 2 years ago by a fully qualified electrician...just checked the invoice and for supply and fit new cables, fuse board, light and switches and sockets (2 x 2 sockets) was €343 incl vat.

Hope that helps

Could you PM me their details please? I might ask for a quote when it is ready.

cletus

I'm looking at getting a new garden shed, somewhere in the region of 12'x10', or perhaps a little bigger.

I'm trying to get an outline of the overall cost, including things like insulation etc. One of the things I'd like to do is run power to the shed, so was wondering if someone would be able to give a ballpark figure? As you may appreciate, difficult to get someone out at the moment to quote.

The main fuse box in the house is about 20m away from where the shed is located. Ideally I'd like to have another small box in the shed, six two gang sockets, a single 16amp socket, and two fluorescent lamps.

Any input would be appreciated

2011

Threads merged.

Calahonda52

One of the things I don't see thus far in this thread is how the cable is being brought from the house to the shed.

2011 mentioned the path, if I read the old regs correctly at Table 52B, if the swa cable is buried, it needs to be buried at 250mm if in the red duct and 450 if just in the soil, so the path has to be cut and redone, and assuming there is no sewer pipe just under the path in the way, its still a piece of work so getting it all done for 343 is not being done correctly.

cletus

I'd assume the electrician doesn't dig the trench, so it wouldn't be factored into his quote.

Is it possible to run the cable is steel ducting along a boundary wall instead of burying it?

2011

cletus wrote: »

Is it possible to run the cable is steel ducting along a boundary wall instead of burying it?

Yes, steel conduit or armoured cable could be run along the boundary wall. It may not look great though.