Providing mains power to a shed

Turbulent Bill

I've a Steeltech shed about 6m from the house, would like to add internal lighting to this. Toying with just using solar rechargeable LEDs, but I'm not convinced they'll be sufficient in the long run. Running mains from the house looks like a better idea, and would also allow for sockets for power tools etc. The shed is 4m*3m and just used for storage now, but will have some gym equipment shortly.

Can anyone give a ballpark figure of what this should cost to get done, and anything I should consider? Well beyond my DIY skills, so would get this professionally done.

JL spark

Turbulent Bill wrote: »

I've a Steeltech shed about 6m from the house, would like to add internal lighting to this. Toying with just using solar rechargeable LEDs, but I'm not convinced they'll be sufficient in the long run. Running mains from the house looks like a better idea, and would also allow for sockets for power tools etc. The shed is 4m*3m and just used for storage now, but will have some gym equipment shortly.

Can anyone give a ballpark figure of what this should cost to get done, and anything I should consider? Well beyond my DIY skills, so would get this professionally done.

To do it properly and depending on mains run from the house , 1500 give or take

Turbulent Bill

Should have mentioned, the shed is well positioned to stick some solar panels on its roof at some stage (probably about 5m^2). Presumably its straightforward to leave some unused cabling back to the house to provision for this?

whizbang

Add the solar panels first.
A decent 12v battery, solar charger and panel, and a heap of 12v lights, should cost you a damn sight less than €1500..

Not sure what kind of power you can get with 5M2, but as you get tuned into what's available, run the power to the house if its worthwhile.

punisher5112

6 meters that couldn't cost that much.

JL spark

punisher5112 wrote: »

6 meters that couldn't cost that much.

To suply all materials, install with proper mechanical protection , test installation, run new mains to house , over heads , vat wages van insurance etc etc
How much do you think then ?

2011

JL spark wrote: »

To do it properly and depending on mains run from the house , 1500 give or take

I will qualify my answer by saying this: I'm off my tools a long time, well over 10 years now. However this sounds about right to me.

I would expect labour to work out at around €50 per hour.

I were doing this:
1) The supply cable would be SWA
2) Steel conduit used within the shed.
3) At least 2 LED corrosion type light fittings within the shed.
4) A sub distribution board within the shed would be best.

I would consider (at extra cost):
1) Outside sensor light over shed door.
2) Outside socket on shed.
3) Extending alarm system to shed. It may be possible to do this wirelessly. I did this so that the shed is on a separate zone with its own code. That way the shed can be armed when the house isn't.

kramer1

If its one of those all metal sheds, would you have to bond it? Run a 10 sq?

punisher5112

If the run was done as in suitable conduit by the home owner would this not help reduce costs?

ESB red conduit.

alan4cult

Sorry to disagree with some posters here but I think €1500 is way above, I would be thinking €1000 maximum but then again I may have not thought of something. I have a 10m SWA run to a shed sub board and a couple of lights and sockets, whole thing cost €700.

JL spark

alan4cult wrote: »

Sorry to disagree with some posters here but I think €1500 is way above, I would be thinking €1000 maximum but then again I may have not thought of something. I have a 10m SWA run to a shed sub board and a couple of lights and sockets, whole thing cost €700.

Are you a RECI , business to run ? The work you got done , any paper work ? Receipt or certificate?

the boss of me

I'm no expert but I kitted out my shed identical size and distance for less than €100. Most expensive part was the armoured cabling. Rest was donated or salvaged. Definitely wouldn't pass any building regs but good enough to run a few lights, radio and the odd light power tool.

JL spark

the boss of me wrote: »

I'm no expert but I kitted out my shed identical size and distance for less than €100. Most expensive part was the armoured cabling. Rest was donated or salvaged. Definitely wouldn't pass any building regs but good enough to run a few lights, radio and the odd light power tool.

Good to hear you have a dangerous installation, did you inform your insurance

sheff the ref

Always price around

There are many options out there.

Just because someone on a forum tries to justify a price you are not comfortable with, does not mean that you cannot get the job done for significantly less online by a suitably qualified and registered person.

runawaybishop

I would JL is pricing it properly, as in all works done by the sparks, signed off properly and vat paid. If you want to cut costs you could chat to your sparks about running cable/conduit yourself. There is a decent bit of work in this either way.

sheff the ref

Someone I know got two prices for a particular last year

€1050 including VAT vs €700 including VAT.

The difference was that the cheaper guy was a one man operation with a 2004 van, the more expensive guy had a 191 van with two paid men.

The more expensive guy said he couldn't justify putting the keys in the ignition for the cheaper price. His final offering was that the job would be done a lot faster.


The moral of the story is that there are external factors that dictate pricing, other than the job itself.

Dunfyy

Dig a ditch run some plastic pipe from house to shed then pull some wires. Then you could hire electrician to install lights and sockets. For 200 euro

Suckit

I'm following this thread because I was delayed with new shed, and I am planning when the weather gets better. But I asked a ballpark figure from an electrician that came to some work in my house. He asked what exactly I wanted, I said a few lights and double sockets, one external socket maybe.
He said between €500 and €700.
When I saw the €1500 I started 2nd guessing him.
But it was only a rough ballpark figure there and then and without any shed etc.

Some very nice videos on youtube about cheap solar installations in sheds.
Some even have inverters to run 220V devices although they'd drain even the strongest of batteries quickly.

alan4cult

JL spark wrote: »

Are you a RECI , business to run ? The work you got done , any paper work ? Receipt or certificate?

Yes I have the paperwork and certificate, also I'm not an RECI hence why I paid for the job.

Do you honestly believe €1500 is a fair price for the OP's work?

Louis Friend

€1,500 does sound a bit punchy

eggy81

Massive profit there in 1500 quid.

sheff the ref

alan4cult wrote: »

Yes I have the paperwork and certificate, also I'm not an RECI hence why I paid for the job.

Do you honestly believe €1500 is a fair price for the OP's work?

A fair price is what the consumer is willing to pay

If Joe Bloggs is quoted €1500 and is willing to pay it, then it is a fair price. If another electrician would have done it for €1000, it is irrelevant

It is up to Joe Bloggs to seek out more quotes. If Joe Bloggs is happy with €1500 then case is closed

punisher5112

By the way I fully appreciate a genuine business has overheads, tax, vat bills etc but honestly it to me sounds s bit overkill ...

There are loads of ways to justify things.
€1500 knocked off a 20 year 3% mortgage is €2731.

How about getting two 12v LED lights running them off your car battery and seeing if you are happy with the light you have in the shed.
If you are happy with it then get a high amperage battery in a scrap yard.
do it incrementally. battery and led lights first, then solar panel, then inverter to run some power tools.

Louis Friend

sheff the ref wrote: »

A fair price is what the consumer is willing to pay

If Joe Bloggs is quoted €1500 and is willing to pay it, then it is a fair price. If another electrician would have done it for €1000, it is irrelevant

It is up to Joe Bloggs to seek out more quotes. If Joe Bloggs is happy with €1500 then case is closed

Eh, no it’s not

Deagol

JL spark wrote: »

To do it properly and depending on mains run from the house , 1500 give or take

Could you give a breakdown of that figure? i.e. How much you estimate for materials and how much time?

JL spark

alan4cult wrote: »

Yes I have the paperwork and certificate, also I'm not an RECI hence why I paid for the job.

Do you honestly believe €1500 is a fair price for the OP's work?

Over the phone without looking , yes ,
Too many busy clowns about

99nsr125

sheff the ref wrote: »

Always price around

There are many options out there.

Just because someone on a forum tries to justify a price you are not comfortable with, does not mean that you cannot get the job done for significantly less online by a suitably qualified and registered person.

Yep

Some electricians are waaayy better than others

There's two electricians local to us, one will charge
€50
for an hour odd job te other will charge
€250

The €50 electrician is significantly better.

2011

Electricians that work for large industrial electrical contractors are practically guaranteed good wages, good working conditions and constant employment. So in order to entice a descent electrician to wire a garden shed they it needs to pay better than the alternative. Otherwise why take the risk of working for yourself?

For those of you that suggest that €1,500 is way off the mark, what is the basis of your pricing?

Regarding materials, I would estimate €500 to cover the following:
• SWA 3 x 6 mm sq. from main distribution board distribution board to shed 10m (to get outside) + 6m to shed + 2m to board in shed
• Small IP rated distribution board + RCBO + 2 MCBs
• Cable glands, screws, busbar, bits and bobs
• Steel conduit and accessories for same
• Sockets metal clad & surface mounted boxes x 2
• IP rated LED lights x 2
• Cabling within shed
• Consumables (such as diamond tipped grinder blade, drill bits)
• Materials for bonding (lugs, cable etc)
• IP rated light switch x 1

The suggest price of €1,500 would include VAT at 13.5%
This means that it is only worth €1,321 to the REC.
Take away the materials and this is €821
At €50 per hour this equates to 16.5 hours work, so 2 days really.

Now €50 per hour may seem like a lot but out of that the following has to be paid:

• The electrician’s hourly rate
• The electrician’s pension payments
• The electrician’s holiday payment
• The electrician’s sick pay
• Accountant
• Insurance
• Van, and all associated costs
• RECI
• Tools and test equipment including wear and tear and all of the stuff that “goes missing”
• Test certificate / test record sheets
• The costs associated with all bad debts – many simply will not pay all or some of the bill just because they know they can get away with it.
• Time associated with pricing the job and time is money!
• Costs associated with purchasing the materials and time lost

So when all is said and done I would consider €1,500 including VAT a fair price to get this work done properly by a professional.

I know that there are easier ways for a descent electrician to make that kind of money.
Pay peanuts and you get monkeys.

JL spark

2011 wrote: »

Electricians that work for large industrial electrical contractors are practically guaranteed good wages, good working conditions and constant employment. So in order to entice a descent electrician to wire a garden shed they it needs to pay better than the alternative. Otherwise why take the risk of working for yourself?

For those of you that suggest that €1,500 is way off the mark, what is the basis of your pricing?

Regarding materials, I would estimate €500 to cover the following:
• SWA 3 x 6 mm sq. from main distribution board distribution board to shed 10m (to get outside) + 6m to shed + 2m to board in shed
• Small IP rated distribution board + RCBO + 2 MCBs
• Cable glands, screws, busbar, bits and bobs
• Steel conduit and accessories for same
• Sockets metal clad & surface mounted boxes x 2
• IP rated LED lights x 2
• Cabling within shed
• Consumables (such as diamond tipped grinder blade, drill bits)
• Materials for bonding (lugs, cable etc)
• IP rated light switch x 1

The suggest price of €1,500 would include VAT at 13.5%
This means that it is only worth €1,321 to the REC.
Take away the materials and this is €821
At €50 per hour this equates to 16.5 hours work, so 2 days really.

Now €50 per hour may seem like a lot but out of that the following has to be paid:

• The electrician’s hourly rate
• The electrician’s pension payments
• The electrician’s holiday payment
• The electrician’s sick pay
• Accountant
• Insurance
• Van, and all associated costs
• RECI
• Tools and test equipment including wear and tear and all of the stuff that “goes missing”
• Test certificate / test record sheets
• The costs associated with all bad debts – many simply will not pay all or some of the bill just because they know they can get away with it.
• Time associated with pricing the job and time is money!
• Costs associated with purchasing the materials and time lost

So when all is said and done I would consider €1,500 including VAT a fair price to get this work done properly by a professional.

I know that there are easier ways for a descent electrician to make that kind of money.
Pay peanuts and you get monkeys.

Thanks for that ,I didn’t have the patience to write that , a lot of hidden factors ðŸ‘

punisher5112

2011 wrote: »

Electricians that work for large industrial electrical contractors are practically guaranteed good wages, good working conditions and constant employment. So in order to entice a descent electrician to wire a garden shed they it needs to pay better than the alternative. Otherwise why take the risk of working for yourself?

For those of you that suggest that €1,500 is way off the mark, what is the basis of your pricing?

Regarding materials, I would estimate €500 to cover the following:
• SWA 3 x 6 mm sq. from main distribution board distribution board to shed 10m (to get outside) + 6m to shed + 2m to board in shed
• Small IP rated distribution board + RCBO + 2 MCBs
• Cable glands, screws, busbar, bits and bobs
• Steel conduit and accessories for same
• Sockets metal clad & surface mounted boxes x 2
• IP rated LED lights x 2
• Cabling within shed
• Consumables (such as diamond tipped grinder blade, drill bits)
• Materials for bonding (lugs, cable etc)
• IP rated light switch x 1

The suggest price of €1,500 would include VAT at 13.5%
This means that it is only worth €1,321 to the REC.
Take away the materials and this is €821
At €50 per hour this equates to 16.5 hours work, so 2 days really.

Now €50 per hour may seem like a lot but out of that the following has to be paid:

• The electrician’s hourly rate
• The electrician’s pension payments
• The electrician’s holiday payment
• The electrician’s sick pay
• Accountant
• Insurance
• Van, and all associated costs
• RECI
• Tools and test equipment including wear and tear and all of the stuff that “goes missing”
• Test certificate / test record sheets
• The costs associated with all bad debts – many simply will not pay all or some of the bill just because they know they can get away with it.
• Time associated with pricing the job and time is money!
• Costs associated with purchasing the materials and time lost

So when all is said and done I would consider €1,500 including VAT a fair price to get this work done properly by a professional.

I know that there are easier ways for a descent electrician to make that kind of money.
Pay peanuts and you get monkeys.

Not always true I'm afraid.

I've come across many over my time that hadn't a breeze.

Deagol

2011 wrote: »

Electricians that work for large industrial electrical contractors are practically guaranteed good wages, good working conditions and constant employment. So in order to entice a descent electrician to wire a garden shed they it needs to pay better than the alternative. Otherwise why take the risk of working for yourself?

For those of you that suggest that €1,500 is way off the mark, what is the basis of your pricing?

Regarding materials, I would estimate €500 to cover the following:
• SWA 3 x 6 mm sq. from main distribution board distribution board to shed 10m (to get outside) + 6m to shed + 2m to board in shed
• Small IP rated distribution board + RCBO + 2 MCBs
• Cable glands, screws, busbar, bits and bobs
• Steel conduit and accessories for same
• Sockets metal clad & surface mounted boxes x 2
• IP rated LED lights x 2
• Cabling within shed
• Consumables (such as diamond tipped grinder blade, drill bits)
• Materials for bonding (lugs, cable etc)
• IP rated light switch x 1

The suggest price of €1,500 would include VAT at 13.5%
This means that it is only worth €1,321 to the REC.
Take away the materials and this is €821
At €50 per hour this equates to 16.5 hours work, so 2 days really.

Now €50 per hour may seem like a lot but out of that the following has to be paid:

• The electrician’s hourly rate
• The electrician’s pension payments
• The electrician’s holiday payment
• The electrician’s sick pay
• Accountant
• Insurance
• Van, and all associated costs
• RECI
• Tools and test equipment including wear and tear and all of the stuff that “goes missing”
• Test certificate / test record sheets
• The costs associated with all bad debts – many simply will not pay all or some of the bill just because they know they can get away with it.
• Time associated with pricing the job and time is money!
• Costs associated with purchasing the materials and time lost

So when all is said and done I would consider €1,500 including VAT a fair price to get this work done properly by a professional.

I know that there are easier ways for a descent electrician to make that kind of money.
Pay peanuts and you get monkeys.

That's some expensive shop you're going to. And some wage - ~$2k a week or €96k a year.

2011

Deagol wrote: »

That's some expensive shop you're going to. And some wage - ~$2k a week or €96k a year.

What is your estimate for material cost?
I agree I could get low quality materials for less but that results in call backs so it’s a false economy.

Also regarding wages read my post carefully and you will immediately see that the wage is less than the going rate for an experienced industrial electrician once all costs are deducted.

Also I might add that I was clearing over €1k per week in the late nineties working as an electrician on an oil rig (in dry dock) and in oil refineries.

sheff the ref

You may not pay it, I may not pay it,

But if Joe Bloggs is willing to pay, then the job is secured

We have all heard of cases where tradesmen shoved up their price by 20-30% almost to avoid getting the job and still ended up getting it.

Louis Friend wrote: »

Eh, no it’s not

sheff the ref

There is significant variation on the price of identical materials. Some suppliers have a heavier mark-up than others.

It is often better to get the electrician to write a list, do you own shopping based on his recommended specs and price accordingly. That lets him with the labour only

However it does remove his capacity to put a margin on the materials.

2011 wrote: »

What is your estimate for material cost?
I agree I could get low quality materials for less but that results in call backs so it’s a false economy.

Also regarding wages read my post carefully and you will immediately see that the wage is less than the going rate for an experienced industrial electrician once all costs are deducted.

Also I might add that I was clearing over €1k per week in the late nineties working as an electrician on an oil rig (in dry dock) and in oil refineries.

Deagol

2011 wrote: »

What is your estimate for material cost?
I agree I could get low quality materials for less but that results in call backs so it’s a false economy.

Also regarding wages read my post carefully and you will immediately see that the wage is less than the going rate for an experienced industrial electrician once all costs are deducted.

Also I might add that I was clearing over €1k per week in the late nineties working as an electrician on an oil rig (in dry dock) and in oil refineries.

There's a difference between low quality and low prices. A lot of what you've mentioned doesn't require pricier parts as they are minimum quality required parts (i.e cable, cable glands etc). I find a lot of trades people are lazy and go to their nearest and friendliest hardware store and buy everything there. I'm forever surprised at the number of trades people at the counter of my local DIY store. Handy place but prices are not competitive. I suspect they don't about costs because they are passing them onto the client.

I'd be surprised if I couldn't get everything on your list for €350 max.

You might have got 1k clear in the 90's but I doubt you'd manage much bettert than it now. Wages in that sector are not what they were. Was talking to an experienced sparks offshore in August and he's on c.£75k gross - 3 on, 3 off.

And I can 100% guarantee you there are sparks getting nowhere near the numbers you are quoting in industrial locations. That would be based on midwest though - perhaps in Dublin it's higher. I would say there are definitely sectors that pay better - though they do pay higher all round anyway (pharma springs to mind).

Anyway - I would agree with what a lot of posters have said - many clients are prepared to pay for work without getting more than 1 quote so many trades people get away with what I consider uncompetitive quotes. But if clients are stupid enough to pay it then more power to the trades!

Turbulent Bill

Thanks for all the responses, gives me a general guide for what it should cost. I'll shop around and see what comes back.

My expectation here is that the electrician will do the complete installation. I don't see any value in sourcing materials myself, and having one supplier for the whole job reduces arguments if something goes wrong.

2011

Deagol wrote: »

There's a difference between low quality and low prices. A lot of what you've mentioned doesn't require pricier parts as they are minimum quality required parts (i.e cable, cable glands etc).

That is true for some parts but not the light fittings, sockets, and protective devices.

I find a lot of trades people are lazy and go to their nearest and friendliest hardware store and buy everything there.

Not quite. Registered electrical contractors have accounts with electrical wholesalers. This minimizes paperwork, reduces cost and allows for free delivery to site. I know because I was a REC and I am still in the game although a very different end of it now.

I'd be surprised if I couldn't get everything on your list for €350 max.

I admit you could be right. I don’t buy this kit anymore.

You might have got 1k clear in the 90's but I doubt you'd manage much bettert than it now. Wages in that sector are not what they were.

To be fair I picked a lucrative example at the higher end of the scale as this was my own experience. I did this work in Holland and Germany. These rates have increased since then.

And I can 100% guarantee you there are sparks getting nowhere near the numbers you are quoting in industrial locations. That would be based on midwest though - perhaps in Dublin it's higher.

I didn’t provide rates for your average industrial sparks in ireland. My point is that this work carries additional risk and hassle, this would be reflected in the price. As you say there are regional variations in rates.

Remember that charging €50 per hour for labour does not mean that the electrician doing the work will actually get paid anything remotely close to that.
There are a lot of overheads to be paid out of this. I believe that many garages charge this rate and the mechanics are typically not paid as much as electricians (there are exceptions).

I would say there are definitely sectors that pay better - though they do pay higher all round anyway (pharma springs to mind).

Exactly, so why do domestic wiring for lower pay?
I remember wiring houses. I spent a lot of time moving furniture, lifting floorboards and crawling through attics. It was hard work!

Treseemme.

kramer1 wrote: »

If its one of those all metal sheds, would you have to bond it? Run a 10 sq?

I would , either that or 10sq swa and take it off that

The bond needs to be connected to structural steel and not a tec screw and metal sheet type job

Is there any specific regulations on this, I've never noticed anything re: sheds and bonding?

cruizer101

2011 wrote: »

So when all is said and done I would consider €1,500 including VAT a fair price to get this work done properly by a professional.

I know that there are easier ways for a descent electrician to make that kind of money.
Pay peanuts and you get monkeys.

Nice to see a breakdown. I'm far from expert but had thought 1500 seemed high. I'd ballparked it myself at bit under 1,000 based on few hundred for materials and a days work at 50ish an hour.

Would there be two days work in it? obviously dependent enough on the setup, but I would have thought for standard enough situation a days work would cover it.

Treseemme.

cruizer101 wrote: »

Nice to see a breakdown. I'm far from expert but had thought 1500 seemed high. I'd ballparked it myself at bit under 1,000 based on few hundred for materials and a days work at 50ish an hour.

Would there be two days work in it? obviously dependent enough on the setup, but I would have thought for standard enough situation a days work would cover it.

I would have it nearer the 1000 as it's close to the house

You could run a bit of tray around the top and do the drops in round pvc conduit if that provides enough mechanical protection

Half the time is taken up outside the shed connecting

Johnner2

Telephone numbers, buy an extension lead😁

Trilogy

We got it done 2 years ago by a fully qualified electrician...just checked the invoice and for supply and fit new cables, fuse board, light and switches and sockets (2 x 2 sockets) was €343 incl vat.

Hope that helps

2011

Treseemme. wrote: »

I would have it nearer the 1000 as it's close to the house

Two things to consider:

1) There is normally a concrete path around the house. This will have to be cut with a diamond tipped blade and chased.

2) The SWA will have to be routed from the outside of the house at the rear I would think to the distribution board which is normally at the front of the house. This could mean lifting floor boards, chasing walls etc.

I would expect the above tasks to be time consuming.

Suckit

Trilogy wrote: »

We got it done 2 years ago by a fully qualified electrician...just checked the invoice and for supply and fit new cables, fuse board, light and switches and sockets (2 x 2 sockets) was €343 incl vat.

Hope that helps

Could you PM me their details please? I might ask for a quote when it is ready.

cletus

I'm looking at getting a new garden shed, somewhere in the region of 12'x10', or perhaps a little bigger.

I'm trying to get an outline of the overall cost, including things like insulation etc. One of the things I'd like to do is run power to the shed, so was wondering if someone would be able to give a ballpark figure? As you may appreciate, difficult to get someone out at the moment to quote.

The main fuse box in the house is about 20m away from where the shed is located. Ideally I'd like to have another small box in the shed, six two gang sockets, a single 16amp socket, and two fluorescent lamps.

Any input would be appreciated

2011

Threads merged.

Calahonda52

One of the things I don't see thus far in this thread is how the cable is being brought from the house to the shed.

2011 mentioned the path, if I read the old regs correctly at Table 52B, if the swa cable is buried, it needs to be buried at 250mm if in the red duct and 450 if just in the soil, so the path has to be cut and redone, and assuming there is no sewer pipe just under the path in the way, its still a piece of work so getting it all done for 343 is not being done correctly.

cletus

I'd assume the electrician doesn't dig the trench, so it wouldn't be factored into his quote.

Is it possible to run the cable is steel ducting along a boundary wall instead of burying it?

2011

cletus wrote: »

Is it possible to run the cable is steel ducting along a boundary wall instead of burying it?

Yes, steel conduit or armoured cable could be run along the boundary wall. It may not look great though.