Storage heaters

Jackaroe

Hi all,
We have 3 storage heaters (Creda) in an apartment that all stopped working at same time. This happened a few weeks before Christmas, managed to get a guy out before Christmas and he said he didn’t know what’s wrong with them and quoted for 3 replacement heaters. He didn’t seem too interested in finding a fault (few minutes at the fuse box, few minutes fiddling with one of the heaters) - more interested in selling new heaters.
Anyway, want them repaired so will have to get someone else out and pay another call out. Anyone know what I should be asking them to look at here so I can ask if they checked x, y and z and if they are all ok? Or better still recommend someone by PM that knows these things and what to do (Dublin city centre).
Many thanks.

Treseemme.

Don't get him again anyhow

I haven't looked at them for a while and there's a few different designs of system

I'd prob start by energising the contactor and see do they come on

If they do I'd probably trace the control circuit wiring as best i can . Check the devireg and resistor, stat if there is one.

Is there anything switched off or turned down?

Dunfyy

Have you a night meter

Jackaroe

Cheers. I had checked them all and made sure all on and turned up etc. I’m assuming that as they all went off at the same time it’s something to do with the supply getting to the heaters, rather than the heaters themselves having a fault (or at least a fault in one of the heaters caused a break in the supply?). I’m not an electrician so the most I was comfortable with was popping the covers off to see if anything obvious burnt out etc but there’s nothing obvious from a visual inspection.

Jackaroe

Dunfyy wrote: »

Have you a night meter

Yes there is a night meter

meercat

Is the wall thermostat turned up

Are there indicator lights on the storage heater switches

Post a photo of your distribution board

Jackaroe

Hey, photos attached.

Jackaroe

There are lights on the switches, but they are not lighting up since problem started. They were lighting when the heaters worked. There is no separate thermostat.

The tripped switch by the way is a bathroom heater that burnt out years ago so was just left off to prevent it being turned on accidentally - not related to the current issue.

punisher5112

Jackaroe wrote: »

Hey, photos attached.

22 MCB is tripped, pull down and click back up, if it trips then there is an issue.

punisher5112

The black/grey unit at 11-13 is what control the supply to heaters, this could be the issue.

ongarite

The top dual dial, 710-2, is the same as mine.
Put the Day dial to O instead of constant & night to 0 initially.
It looks like its powered on & active as both LEDs are on.
Edit: You say they aren't on now. The MCB for the storage heater should turn it back on.

There should be a switch to turn on/off the heaters in each room.
Is there a booster on any of them? A switch on the heater to turn it into an electric radiator?

Jackaroe

punisher5112 wrote: »

22 MCB is tripped, pull down and click back up, if it trips then there is an issue.

Sorry edited the post afterwards to clarify this is a bathroom fan heater that has been off for years as it burnt out - not related as storage heaters worked for years with this off

punisher5112

Jackaroe wrote: »

Sorry edited the post afterwards to clarify this is a bathroom fan heater that has been off for years as it burnt out - not related as storage heaters worked for years with this off

I knew it wasn't part of the other heaters but thought it may have tripped for a reason....

The unit on the bottom right could be sticking, give it a tap, not hard but power all off doing so.

Then switch everything back on....

Jackaroe

ongarite wrote: »

The top dual dial, 710-2, is the same as mine.
Put the Day dial to O instead of constant & night to 0 initially.
It looks like its powered on & active as both LEDs are on.
Edit: You say they aren't on now. The MCB for the storage heater should turn it back on.

There should be a switch to turn on/off the heaters in each room.
Is there a booster on any of them? A switch on the heater to turn it into an electric radiator?

Thanks I’ll try that. There is an electric heater on one of them which is working ok.

Treseemme.

Jackaroe wrote: »

Hey, photos attached.

Only just looked at those pictures

Not great with the contactor there, does a blank even cover it or did it fall off?

Jackaroe

Treseemme. wrote: »

Only just looked at those pictures

Not great with the contactor there, does a blank even cover it or did it fall off?

There was a plastic cover on it which I took off to take photos

Kencollins

On the grey contactor at 11 - 13, is the switch on the bottom left slid over to "0"? If so, try sliding it back over to "1".

Jackaroe

Kencollins wrote: »

On the grey contactor at 11 - 13, is the switch on the bottom left slid over to "0"? If so, try sliding it back over to "1".

It’s at 0, when I push it to 1 it just springs back to 0 (there’s also a flash when pushing it to 1). Should it stay at the 1 position?

MintyMagnum

If you are on a night meter the 'clock' might need to be replaced This is a job for the esb, as its their equipment. In my case one electrician said all the storage heaters were knackered, old & needed replacing. A 2nd opinion electrician said problem was the clock in the meter. That was replaced et voila, problem solved. The heaters themselves weren't actually kaput. Saved a lot of unnecessary cost & hassle even though had two call outs!

punisher5112

Jackaroe wrote: »

It’s at 0, when I push it to 1 it just springs back to 0 (there’s also a flash when pushing it to 1). Should it stay at the 1 position?

That flash is a spark, I would be near sure it's done and needs replacing.

Could well be shorting, if the cover was off you may see heat damage but only a reci can do this work.

Jackaroe

MintyMagnum wrote: »

If you are on a night meter the 'clock' might need to be replaced This is a job for the esb, as its their equipment. In my case one electrician said all the storage heaters were knackered, old & needed replacing. A 2nd opinion electrician said problem was the clock in the meter. That was replaced et voila, problem solved. The heaters themselves weren't actually kaput. Saved a lot of unnecessary cost & hassle even though had two call outs!

Thanks - I might start there so - do you recall how much it was to get ESB out and to replace the clock?

Bass Reeves

Jackaroe wrote: »

Thanks - I might start there so - do you recall how much it was to get ESB out and to replace the clock?

The ESB will not charge but your electrician must first prove everything is ok inside in house.

What KW are the heaters

Jackaroe

punisher5112 wrote: »

That flash is a spark, I would be near sure it's done and needs replacing.

Could well be shorting, if the cover was off you may see heat damage but only a reci can do this work.

Cheers. I might look into the night clock first. Now that another poster mentioned it I do recall that the heaters started coming on at funny times before they stopped working. I didn’t think much of it at the time or connect it but that might explain it.

punisher5112

Jackaroe wrote: »

Cheers. I might look into the night clock first. Now that another poster mentioned it I do recall that the heaters started coming on at funny times before they stopped working. I didn’t think much of it at the time or connect it but that might explain it.

That's just because the time was wrong I'd say. Use to see this a lot....

If they are doing a fault find I would start with each heater one by one testing supply, this consists of adding a supply to them to check they work as during the day it would be impossible to know as night meter would be off.

Then I'd move to relay contactor.

I'd also suggest while at it, clean out the inner of heaters as huge dust build ups can be a danger and we'll worth a clean out.

2 screws usually hold the outer cover on at the bottom on each side.

Hope you get sorted.

Jackaroe

Bass Reeves wrote: »

The ESB will not charge but your electrician must first prove everything is ok inside in house.

What KW are the heaters

Thanks. One of them is 24kwh storage capacity and the other two are 12kwh capacity.

Jackaroe

Hi all, just to update this and hopefully close it out! I spoke to the ESB this morning and they were able to give me a meter reading they took a few days ago, and comparing it to the current reading the night units haven’t changed. So it looks like the night meter isn’t working and they said that’s likely the cause of the storage heater issue. They are sending someone out on Tuesday to see if they can reset the clock or whatever they need to do.
So fingers crossed that’s it.
Thanks to all for your help/advice on this!

meercat

Jackaroe wrote: »

Hi all, just to update this and hopefully close it out! I spoke to the ESB this morning and they were able to give me a meter reading they took a few days ago, and comparing it to the current reading the night units haven’t changed. So it looks like the night meter isn’t working and they said that’s likely the cause of the storage heater issue. They are sending someone out on Tuesday to see if they can reset the clock or whatever they need to do.
So fingers crossed that’s it.
Thanks to all for your help/advice on this!

Not saying it’s not a faulty meter but I’ve never come across one given the setup you have here. I’ve replaced devireg controllers before and also the contactors. Check your wall roomstat is turned up. Id still say the problem is on the control circuit somewhere. A competent electrician should identify the problem in minutes

If you turn the day button to constant does the indicator light change to red.

Any chance of a photo of meter setup and most importantly a closeup of the clock controller

https://www.boards.ie/vbulletin//attachment.php?attachmentid=186000&d=1324508064

MintyMagnum

Jackaroe wrote: »

Thanks - I might start there so - do you recall how much it was to get ESB out and to replace the clock?

I don't recall any esb charge, coz 'twas their equipment failed, only I had to pay two electricians before that! Hope it's a simple fix for you.

Treseemme.

Timing being off would be the main issue I've encountered with dual tariff

Not much else

Jackaroe

meercat wrote: »

Not saying it’s not a faulty meter but I’ve never come across one given the setup you have here. I’ve replaced devireg controllers before and also the contactors. Check your wall roomstat is turned up. Id still say the problem is on the control circuit somewhere. A competent electrician should identify the problem in minutes

If you turn the day button to constant does the indicator light change to red.

Any chance of a photo of meter setup and most importantly a closeup of the clock controller

https://www.boards.ie/vbulletin//attachment.php?attachmentid=186000&d=1324508064

Cheers. Here’s a close up of the clock. The light stays green even after changing to const. The other light flashes red all the time.

meercat

Jackaroe wrote: »

Cheers. Here’s a close up of the clock. The light stays green even after changing to const. The other light flashes red all the time.

Hard to make photo out looks like it’s on 0 not constant

Treseemme.

The newer type metering setup I haven't seen any problems like this

If I recall the older setup used a separate timer, might have been more troublesome

Jackaroe

meercat wrote: »

Hard to make photo out looks like it’s on 0 not constant

Yeah it was on 0 in that photo. I moved it to constant to see if it changed the light but it didn’t so moved it back. Here’s a pic with it at const

meercat

Jackaroe wrote: »

Yeah it was on 0 in that photo. I moved it to constant to see if it changed the light but it didn’t so moved it back. Here’s a pic with it at const

Move it back to constant and leave it there for 15 minutes.
Check wall thermostat is turned up also

Treseemme.

Isn't the day dial irrelevant for NSH ?

Think it is , been a while since I seen them

Jackaroe

Back in action anyway - a dodgy clock.
Thanks all

Roberto_gas

Jackaroe wrote: »

Back in action anyway - a dodgy clock.
Thanks all

When u say dodgy clock.. where ? Even my storage heater has stopped

Jackaroe

Roberto_gas wrote: »

When u say dodgy clock.. where ? Even my storage heater has stopped

There is a timer switch in our meter room that controls the day/night meters, wasn’t working properly so wasn’t switching over to night meter.

Roberto_gas

Jackaroe wrote: »

There is a timer switch in our meter room that controls the day/night meters, wasn’t working properly so wasn’t switching over to night meter.

Mine is electronics meter panel with digital display and has correct time..thanks

Jackaroe

The clock causing the issue for us is the ESB clock, rather than clock on the heating system etc, not sure if that’s what you’re referring to. If you have access to take a meter reading you should be able to see if the night units change over a day or two - ours weren’t so was clear the night meter wasn’t kicking in and therefore the storage heaters weren’t coming on.

Roberto_gas

Jackaroe wrote: »

The clock causing the issue for us is the ESB clock, rather than clock on the heating system etc, not sure if that’s what you’re referring to. If you have access to take a meter reading you should be able to see if the night units change over a day or two - ours weren’t so was clear the night meter wasn’t kicking in and therefore the storage heaters weren’t coming on.

Night reading changes and my meter is electronic so clock/switch is within the box somewhere..thanks

Jackaroe

Roberto_gas wrote: »

Night reading changes and my meter is electronic so clock/switch is within the box somewhere..thanks

Ah ok, hope you get It sorted so. They are a bit of a nuisance and seems to be tough to find someone who knows a whole lot about them these days! We were told replace them and when I spoke with my neighbour yesterday to let her know they should be fixed for the whole building she told me she was told the same by her electrician - only she did rip them all out!

Roberto_gas

Jackaroe wrote: »

Ah ok, hope you get It sorted so. They are a bit of a nuisance and seems to be tough to find someone who knows a whole lot about them these days! We were told replace them and when I spoke with my neighbour yesterday to let her know they should be fixed for the whole building she told me she was told the same by her electrician - only she did rip them all out!

These are not viable in terms of efficiency so most people get rid of them..luckily have openfire and oil filled rads so not a pressing issue