Govt to fund Erasmus+ scheme for Northern Ireland students

E30M3

As reported on the RTE Website.

My understanding is that the Education system in the South is underfunded at all levels and yet the Government have decided that it is a good idea to enter into an open ended commitment to fund Students from the North who decide to study abroad under this programme.

Minister Harris on the 9 o'clock news declared that this wasn't a cost but an investment.

The UK Government declined to continue with this programme due to the cost but at a Press Briefing I heard Boris Johnston state that they were replacing it with a Global Programme for UK Students, which I can only assume N.I. Students can avail of also.

Estimated cost was given as 2.1 million but I have no way of knowing if that is accurate or not, it sounds light and there is no review mechanism at any stage. This is a permanent and ongoing commitment.

All these commitments add up and I'm struggling to understand the logic of this, other than as an attempt to garner good PR but at what cost?

The article mentions that 'Concern had been expressed that students from less affluent backgrounds would be worst hit as they could not fund their travel and expenses without the programme' - But my understanding is that the scheme isn't means tested so the Southern Taxpayer is funding everyone who travels and avails of this scheme rather than availing of the New Global scheme the UK are introducing.

Is this a good decision in your view? I'm struggling to see it as such.

listermint

Keeping people on both sides of the devide educated and giving them access and experience to get more visibility into the European program should always be welcomed.

It is an investment .

ax530

NI seems to continue to get best of both without having to take the costs or responsibilities.
Can't see why our government always looking to help them out.
With the virus while we were living restricted lives to help HSE cope NI did as pleased hospitals got over whelmed however they knew would be ok as others would step in to help them.
Majority in NI have no interest or knowledge of things happening here, our gov ect. However if there is funding/free stuff available agencies will present people with the paperwork regardless if it coming from UK,EU,IRE,US.
With assistant coming from so many places it is easier to live a comfortable life in NI (most people with a job can buy a house). At the same time takes interest from sorting out their own political affairs.

E30M3

But should we be borrowing for that Investment?

Should there be a review mechanism?

Should there be a cost Benefit Analysis of that Investment V other possible Investments.

Is it the best use of these funds in the Education Sector on the Island?

kalych

Considering that the NI protocol has established a 4 year review by the devolved administration then continuing to educate NI students about the benefits of the EU is especially important going forward.

Erasmus is fairly effective as it's one of a few programs that is popular across the entire NI student community and doesn't not inherently have a unionist/nationalist split baked into it.

A good investment i would say. Sadly, it's one of those things that is difficult to do a cost/benefit analysis on, kind of like defense. All defense costs are useless unless you're attacked, in which case you always needed more investment.

Any efforts towards Irish reunification are similar: they all seem like a burden until it happens at which point everyone will be talking about what a great long-term investment it had been.

E30M3

kalych wrote: »

Considering that the NI protocol has established a 4 year review by the devolved administration then continuing to educate NI students about the benefits of the EU is especially important going forward.

Erasmus is fairly effective as it's one of a few programs that is popular across the entire NI student community and doesn't not inherently have a unionist/nationalist split baked into it.

A good investment i would say. Sadly, it's one of those things that is difficult to do a cost/benefit analysis on, kind of like defense. All defense costs are useless unless you're attacked, in which case you always needed more investment.

Any efforts towards Irish reunification are similar: they all seem like a burden until it happens at which point everyone will be talking about what a great long-term investment it had been.

Thank you for taking the time to post. I have no view formed but only a doubt in my head and therefore I was asking for opinions such as yours to try and refine my thinking. I struggle with these News Items when the are presented in the Media almost as a Government Press Release with no Analysis or Questions or Consideration given and the View/Listener is expected to accept it at face value as a 'good news item'. I think that shows up how weak Journalism is at the moment.

Dempo1

E30M3 wrote: »

Thank you for taking the time to post. I have no view formed but only a doubt in my head and therefore I was asking for opinions such as yours to try and refine my thinking. I struggle with these News Items when the are presented in the Media almost as a Government Press Release with no Analysis or Questions or Consideration given and the View/Listener is expected to accept it at face value as a 'good news item'. I think that shows up how weak Journalism is at the moment.

It was precisely that, a Government press release, almost as if they have to give an impression that Simon "sanctimonious" Harris actually does something.

Not entirely sure of the merit"s of this scheme but I was curious to understand why it also includes staff according to the RTE news report, this seems rather bizzare, fair enough supporting students but staff? Surely the institutions themselves should be financing staff furthering studies, research in Europe, better still the highly paid staff themselves.

suicide_circus

northern ireland's upper middle class kids need investment too!

Dyr

Erasmus seems to be very big deal to a very small section of society.

Kermit.de.frog

My take on this is really straight forward.

We should not be paying for anything in the north. It is part of the UK.

If/when it is not then fine.

Until then the Brits should pay every single penny to maintain it.

Why the **** would we pay!?

As for advancing a united Ireland, absolute nonsense. It would be far better if people in the 6 counties had to take responsibility for Westminster not caring enough to fund services.

We are only feeding the chronic dependency problem there as well btw.

griffdaddy

Kermit.de.frog wrote: »

My take on this is really straight forward.

We should not be paying for anything in the north. It is part of the UK.

If/when it is not then fine.

Until then the Brits should pay every single penny to maintain it.

Why the **** would we pay!?

Because many, many people who live there are Irish citizens and consider themselves to live in Ireland, in their own country. Regardless of your political outlook it's a pretty compelling argument and it's not exactly the same as supporting Irish citizens in any other part of the world.

ancapailldorcha

A wonderful idea in my opinion. Fair play to the government for this.

suicide_circus

griffdaddy wrote: »

Because many, many people who live there are Irish citizens

Should we pay for Irish citizens elsewhere in the world or only in NI?

MarkR

How do you eat an elephant? One bite at a time.

I suppose the thought is, is that those young people are Irish, and are budgeting for them.


I suppose the university gets money from the state for that, which is a positive, given the drop in foreign students. Can the government claim back some of that money from an EU fund?

There's always somewhere better to spend money that isn't yours. Doesn't mean it's a bad thing.

Saying that, our own education system needs a major look. Free education my generous posterior. 130 euro this year for photocopies and supplies. Eek

It wasnt me123

It’s an investment. We all live on the island of Ireland and regardless of the British government or Eileen Foster we share lots of things on a daily basis. Educating our youth is most definitely an investment.

suicide_circus

MarkR wrote: »

I suppose the thought is, is that those young people are Irish, and are budgeting for them.

But then why are we only paying for their Erasmus trips?

CtevenSrowder

How does Erasmus work? Does it depend on what university you are in or your nationality?

Galwayguy35

ancapailldorcha wrote: »

A wonderful idea in my opinion. Fair play to the government for this.

Is it now.

The Brits still claim the north as part of the UK so until that changes they should be footing the bill for everything there.

I see the Government also said they would fund those with British passports so the prods who hate everything about us get our tax money for their education.

Emergency healthcare in Europe will also be funded by the Government for them as well.

This money would be better spent improving the state of the roads here.

griffdaddy

suicide_circus wrote: »

Should we pay for Irish citizens elsewhere in the world or only in NI?

See second part of my post. An Irish citizen born with an Irish passport in what they (and many others, including many ROI political parties) see as part of Ireland is not the same as funding an Irish citizen living in Australia or Canada. It's ridiculous to compare the two.

Yamanoto

I'm guessing this would apply to NI students in the likes of Queens and University of Ulster only, as opposed to the countless others who head for college in Edinburgh or Glasgow, many of whom go on to permanently live their lives in GB.

suicide_circus

It wasnt me123 wrote: »

Educating our youth is most definitely an investment.

Struggling to see how paying for already wealthy kids to go on a jolly in a Dutch university is a vital educational investment. If we want to claim Irish citizens in the North lets perhaps direct investment and those more in need. Or even ask them if they'd like to contribute to the tax coffers?

senordingdong

E30M3 wrote: »

My understanding is that the Education system in the South is underfunded at all levels.

This sums it up for me.
Erasmus has clear benefits and can be easily presented as an investment.
But does that infer that spending this €2.1m p/a here is not an investment? There is an endless list of things from third level grants to creche/early learning subsidies that are underfunded and into which extra funding could be declared as an investment.
So to me now, this looks like some 'feel good' financial throwaway.

Eric Cartman

suicide_circus wrote: »

Struggling to see how paying for already wealthy kids to go on a jolly in a Dutch university is a vital educational investment.

Thats it. Im all for education, doing an erasmus program was always only available to a wealthy minority ... now were funding that minority

joseywhales

If they want to do erasmus, can't they go to college in the republic?

senordingdong

joseywhales wrote: »

If they want to do erasmus, can't they go to college in the republic?

Haha yes, a trip to the exotic lands of Cork or maynooth.

Geuze

E30M3 wrote: »

My understanding is that the Education system in the South is underfunded at all levels and

That statement is contestable.

Top of scale for:
teachers = 70k approx
typical lecturers (not senior or professors) = 85k approx

typical teachers pension = 700 per week / 35k approx

3,000+ primary schools, many very small - way too many IMHO


So large class sizes are due to excessive number of schools, which means excessive costs:

3,000+ principal allowances / maintenance costs / utility bills / insurance etc.

CtevenSrowder

senordingdong wrote: »

Haha yes, a trip to the exotic lands of Cork or maynooth.

I think they mean to attend a university in the republic in order to qualify for an Erasmus abroad.

Hamachi

Eric Cartman wrote: »

Thats it. Im all for education, doing an erasmus program was always only available to a wealthy minority ... now were funding that minority

Kind of agree with this. Education is never a waste and needs to be a priority.

I studied computer science with a language. When I was in university, admittedly 15-16 years ago, it was definitely students from wealthier backgrounds who had the luxury of doing Erasmus. The rest of us went over for the year waiting on tables, working on conveyor belts etc, oftentimes coming back with greater fluency than those who participated in Erasmus.

Have no issue with funding students from the North, but would love to see the scheme directed explicitly towards students with fewer financial resources. Provide an educational opportunity to kids who would otherwise miss out.

E30M3

I've read all the contributions thus far and I'm currently of the view that this is a vanity project by our government and not well thought through. I would have the following questions for the Minister.

1) Why is this scheme not capped in terms of Annual Cost?

2) Why is it not designed on an integrated basis with the Global Scheme mentioned by UK Prime Minister

3) Why not means tested?

4) Why no review mechanism or end date?

5) How will the success of this scheme be measured?



I understand the views of the contributors here why view this positively, however it seems to me that it would be possible to achieve the benefits they perceive in a more targeted way with a scheme integrated with whatever the UK offer rather than a competing scheme. That's if we wish to fund this programme for non residents of the Republic.

senordingdong

Geuze wrote: »

That statement is contestable.

Top of scale for:
teachers = 70k approx
typical lecturers (not senior or professors) = 85k approx

typical teachers pension = 700 per week / 35k approx

3,000+ primary schools, many very small - way too many IMHO


So large class sizes are due to excessive number of schools, which means excessive costs:

3,000+ principal allowances / maintenance costs / utility bills / insurance etc.

I think you'll find that large class sizes are a result of an insufficient amount of schools.
Are you suggesting that if we paid teachers less we'd have more money to send to NI?

Heart Break Kid

There’s