Advertisement
If you have a new account but are having problems posting or verifying your account, please email us on hello@boards.ie for help. Thanks :)
Hello all! Please ensure that you are posting a new thread or question in the appropriate forum. The Feedback forum is overwhelmed with questions that are having to be moved elsewhere. If you need help to verify your account contact hello@boards.ie

Why do we need a signer at all GOV announcements?

Options
13»

Comments

  • Options
    #62
    anplaya27
    Registered Users Posts: 282 ✭✭anplaya27


    Sir Oxman wrote: »
    Is it difficult to pick up?
    I remember years ago being encouraged to do a course but sadly I didn't have the time.

    . A course would only teach the basics, like the alphabet , numbers etc. It's a full language sure. Interpreters for example study at the centre for Deaf studies in Trinity for 4 years and they are continuously being evaluated on the job. It's an evolving language just like spoken ones are.


  • Options
    #63
    Richard
    Registered Users Posts: 2,439 ✭✭✭Richard


    L1011 wrote: »
    The ISL/BSL comprehension split is not that clear either.

    They're different languages entirely, signing is not translating English to signals and it turned out that ISL and BSL were developed seperately.

    I believe (although I’m happy to be corrected) that ISL in NI tends to be in rural areas whilst BSL (specifically NISL as it isn’t quite the same) is used in urban areas. It isn’t a complete Protestant/Catholic split.


  • Options
    #64
    dxhound2005
    Registered Users Posts: 20,743 ✭✭✭✭dxhound2005


    Anesthetize wrote: »
    Did somebody actually create a thread on this?

    They did indeed. But made no further contribution since. They were just wondering like, so they must have got the answers they wanted.

    Is it a WOKE thing that we need a signer at every press conference?
    Do sub-titles not work or are there a lot of deaf people who cannot read?
    Just wondering like...


  • Options
    #65
    Kylta
    Registered Users Posts: 15,457 ✭✭✭✭Kylta


    Sir Oxman wrote: »
    Is it difficult to pick up?
    I remember years ago being encouraged to do a course but sadly I didn't have the time.

    As one poster said. You need to be at it all the time to pick it up, I found it hard to change signals into words, if the hand signing is to fast, I'd miss out on certain words especially if the spelling the words out. But I'd recommend a basic course in ISL to anybody who's interested in it.
    It also taught me one thing, how frustrating it can be for a person from a different culture trying to communicate with a person who has no knowledge of their language.


  • Options
    #66
    pickarooney
    Moderators, Arts Moderators Posts: 35,197 Mod ✭✭✭✭pickarooney


    anplaya27 wrote: »
    ISL and spoken english are completely different languages and have nothing in common. One language is visual, other isoral, which the Deaf have never heard, yet are expected to understand. Imagine how difficult that is.
    You interpret ISL to english and english to ISL. Sometimes thereis no direct translation and you need to finger spell the word and come up with a sign to describe it.

    Signers you see there are hearing, obviously interpreting in real time sure. You need to be able to hear for that. We have Deaf interpreters too. Interpreters study in the school of linguistics in Trinity at the centre for Deaf studies. I'm a member of the Deaf community and an ISL user.

    What happens when a new word comes into being - obvious example of COVID-19 - does that begin by being spelled out in, I suppose English? but in this case it would have the same spelling in all spoken languages... at some point presumably a short, unique sign develops for the word. Who decides on what that is and would this same sign be used in varieties of sign languages worldwide?

    I'm trying to imagine, say, Chinese sign language. Would that be utterly independent of spoken Chinese and its writing system?


  • Advertisement
  • Options
    #67
    anplaya27
    Registered Users Posts: 282 ✭✭anplaya27


    pickarooney wrote: »
    What happens when a new word comes into being - obvious example of COVID-19 - does that begin by being spelled out in, I suppose English? but in this case it would have the same spelling in all spoken languages... at some point presumably a short, unique sign develops for the word. Who decides on what that is and would this same sign be used in varieties of sign languages worldwide?

    I'm trying to imagine, say, Chinese sign language. Would that be utterly independent of spoken Chinese and its writing system?

    The Deaf community itself in each country decides on a new sign.In fact we have one for coronavirus here.

    All native sign languages are dependent of spoken languages. They have nothing in common. Different grammar structures, synthaxes , phonetics and so on. You need to understand spoken (oral) languages are not the languages of the Deaf.


  • Options
    #68
    anplaya27
    Registered Users Posts: 282 ✭✭anplaya27


    Richard wrote: »
    I believe (although I’m happy to be corrected) that ISL in NI tends to be in rural areas whilst BSL (specifically NISL as it isn’t quite the same) is used in urban areas. It isn’t a complete Protestant/Catholic split.

    Wrong. Nothing to do with the catholic/protestant thing. That's a hearing issue not Deaf. It's more to do with the educational system. They do actually use 3 different sign languages in NI. NISL, BSL and ISL.


  • Options
    #69
    Wanderer78
    Registered Users Posts: 28,934 ✭✭✭✭Wanderer78


    fortwilliam wrote:
    Is it a WOKE thing that we need a signer at every press conference? Do sub-titles not work or are there a lot of deaf people who cannot read? Just wondering like...

    Maybe we do need public kickings for online ignorance!


  • Options
    #70
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 25,611 ✭✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    pickarooney wrote: »
    What happens when a new word comes into being - obvious example of COVID-19 - does that begin by being spelled out in, I suppose English? but in this case it would have the same spelling in all spoken languages... at some point presumably a short, unique sign develops for the word. Who decides on what that is and would this same sign be used in varieties of sign languages worldwide?
    As in other languages it depends really. Think about French with their top-down standards. German tried standardising spellings.
    Were the individual sign languages developed in a systematic way and then taught or did they grow organically and then get somewhat standardised? Is a language in wide enough use for new "words" to naturally cement their meaning when they come along?


  • Options
    #71
    spurious
    Moderators, Category Moderators, Education Moderators Posts: 27,139 CMod ✭✭✭✭spurious


    I know we're veering slightly off topic here, but if I think about how hearing people are taught to read (assigning a sound to the letters and combining them), imagine how difficult/amazing/complicated it is for someone who has never heard a sound to do the same, and often in more than one laguage?

    I travelled around the US many moons ago with a deaf woman - we had met online where 'chat' rooms had been the great leveller, but when we met up, I just had my very poor rendering of the ASL alphabet to manage with. God help her she must have been so frustrated as I plodded along spelling everything out, letter by letter. I will never forget her relief and fluency when we met some other deaf people and she could communicate fluently with people again. She was too polite to mention it, but I know dealing with me must have been a torment for her.


  • Advertisement
  • Options
    #72
    anplaya27
    Registered Users Posts: 282 ✭✭anplaya27


    Deleted User wrote: »
    As in other languages it depends really. Think about French with their top-down standards. German tried standardising spellings.
    Were the individual sign languages developed in a systematic way and then taught or did they grow organically and then get somewhat standardised? Is a language in wide enough use for new "words" to naturally cement their meaning when they come along?

    They developed naturally in Deaf communities over centuries. The educational system here in Ireland used FSL and this had an impact on ISL. All native sign languages are different worldwide. Just like spoken ones.


  • Options
    #73
    anplaya27
    Registered Users Posts: 282 ✭✭anplaya27


    spurious wrote: »
    I know we're veering slightly off topic here, but if I think about how hearing people are taught to read (assigning a sound to the letters and combining them), imagine how difficult/amazing/complicated it is for someone who has never heard a sound to do the same, and often in more than one laguage?

    I travelled around the US many moons ago with a deaf woman - we had met online where 'chat' rooms had been the great leveller, but when we met up, I just had my very poor rendering of the ASL alphabet to manage with. God help her she must have been so frustrated as I plodded along spelling everything out, letter by letter. I will never forget her relief and fluency when we met some other deaf people and she could communicate fluently with people again. She was too polite to mention it, but I know dealing with me must have been a torment for her.

    It's a pain in the arse with fingerspelling but we Deaf ( notice the capital d, as in Deaf culture, identity, traditions, language etc) do appreciate the effort. After all it's usually the other way around.


  • Options
    #74
    Ficheall
    Registered Users Posts: 9,024 ✭✭✭Ficheall


    I'm always amazed at them being able to translate in real time like that. I guess it goes for translators in general. My languages are okay, but could never translate on the hop while still listening and absorbing the next bit.


  • Options
    #75
    anplaya27
    Registered Users Posts: 282 ✭✭anplaya27


    Ficheall wrote: »
    I'm always amazed at them being able to translate in real time like that. I guess it goes for translators in general. My languages are okay, but could never translate on the hop while still listening and absorbing the next bit.


    It's actually harder to interpret a spoken language into a signed language and vice versa as they are completely structured differently.The brain uses a different section for both so its very tiring. That's why you see the interpreters changing after 20 minutes as the quality of their interpretation goes down.


  • Options
    #76
    pickarooney
    Moderators, Arts Moderators Posts: 35,197 Mod ✭✭✭✭pickarooney


    anplaya27 wrote: »
    The Deaf community itself in each country decides on a new sign.In fact we have one for coronavirus here.

    All native sign languages are dependent of spoken languages. They have nothing in common. Different grammar structures, synthaxes , phonetics and so on. You need to understand spoken (oral) languages are not the languages of the Deaf.

    Is there any crossover or ways to intuit words from other sign languages? For example if you watched a French person sign would some of the signs make sense? Would the syntax in one sign language sometimes be similar to the grammar in another? Are there groups or families of sign language?

    I have far too many questions. Do you know a good resource for people who want to learn more? I don't necessarily want to learn a sign language at the moment but am interested in the mechanics of it.


  • Options
    #77
    anplaya27
    Registered Users Posts: 282 ✭✭anplaya27


    pickarooney wrote: »
    Is there any crossover or ways to intuit words from other sign languages? For example if you watched a French person sign would some of the signs make sense? Would the syntax in one sign language sometimes be similar to the grammar in another? Are there groups or families of sign language?

    I have far too many questions. Do you know a good resource for people who want to learn more? I don't necessarily want to learn a sign language at the moment but am interested in the mechanics of it.

    You can look up all of the above youve asked online if you search. This will answer your questions better than I ever will. All the information is there.


Advertisement