Leaking Pump Valve

heffo500

John.G wrote: »

Ok getting somewhere now I think.

fixed speed 1 on the UPS3 is actually more powerful than the fixed speed 2 on the DAB, I would suggest running (the ups3) on constant pressure CP1 which will be slightly higher than the DAB on speed 2 but pretty close to it. I would then suggest running the Alpha 1L on fixed speed 1 and see how you get on.

When things settle down.....
Check the vent in the attic for air ingress by tying a small plastic bag of water to it with the vent immersed in it, if any problem, the water will disappear out of the bag. Also check for no movement of water in the tank itself.

Sound I've done that now, so I'll leave it a while and wait and see?

John.G

Are you getting hot water circulation now in both zones??.

How many rads on each zoine and any idea of the OF boiler output?

Also just for interest, how long did the DAB last before packing up?.

heffo500

John.G wrote: »

Are you getting hot water circulation now in both zones??.

How many rads on each zoine and any idea of the OF boiler output?

Also just for interest, how long did the DAB last before packing up?.

Only on the main zone that was always working.

8 rads on the main zone most large doubles and 8 in the house part 4 doubles and 4 singles panels.

I think it's a 150,000 BTU or 120,000 BTU warmflow boiler.

Maybe 2 to 3 years the pump has lasted,

I've bought the big Magnaclean filter machine and intend to do a system flush in January as the system seems to be full of sludge.

I was also going to put a Magna clean on the inch pipe feed the zone that's working fine as the current micro is only on the 3/4 return.

I've also got an 1 inch spirotech aerator that I was going to put on the flow side to help the system remain air free.

Could this valve in this link be stuck too? Could I shut the motorised valve on the flow side above and replace it or would I need to drain the whole system down? Would I better off replacing the gate valve with a level valve?

This lever valve has been leaking for a while.

http://imgur.com/gallery/iZjEUCR

John.G

So, you are not getting any hot water flow still through that zone??, are you absolutely sure that the valves on either side of the Alpha 1L are actually opened, ie is there 4 or 5 full turns on each from fully open to fully shut and vica versa.

Re lever valves, I prefer gate valves myself as you can tighten the gland if they start leaking, you have actually shown a gate valve and you might be able to tighten the gland nut on that, the motorised valve will isolate it at one side but you need another valve somewhere else on the other side if you want to renew it.

These aerators are unnecessary if the system is not drawing in air in the first place but with the two or three pumps its a difficult task.
Also air ingress causes corrosion hence the state of your filter. I would say that system is drawing in air for years.

heffo500

John.G wrote: »

So, you are not getting any hot water flow still through that zone??, are you absolutely sure that the valves on either side of the Alpha 1L are actually opened, ie is there 4 or 5 full turns on each from fully open to fully shut and vica versa.

Re lever valves, I prefer gate valves myself as you can tighten the gland if they start leaking, you have actually shown a gate valve and you might be able to tighten the gland nut on that, the motorised valve will isolate it at one side but you need another valve somewhere else on the other side if you want to renew it.

These aerators are unnecessary if the system is not drawing in air in the first place but with the two or three pumps its a difficult task.
Also air ingress causes corrosion hence the state of your filter. I would say that system is drawing in air for years.

Yeah I opened them and they did open, maybe I'll try get new ones and replace them.

The pipes from the boiler go underground so if I turn off the motorised valve and shut of the feed tank surely they will only be the water in the pipe in the boiler house I would need to deal with? I could very wrong here but I think I seen a plumber do something very similar

John.G

You might be able to replace it that way, I just don't know, you said above that it might be stuck but you can check that by shutting it fully and then re opening it, if you can do this then its ok except that the valve has come off the valve spindle, very unlikely IMO.

heffo500

John.G wrote: »

You might be able to replace it that way, I just don't know, you said above that it might be stuck but you can check that by shutting it fully and then re opening it, if you can do this then its ok except that the valve has come off the valve spindle, very unlikely IMO.

Yeah I think the valve seems at fault because the heat doesn't seem to pass it unless I have it open a certain way. Maybe I'll just drain down the system and replace that valve? It's leaking anyway.

Thanks for the help btw

heffo500

Got all the gate valves in Screwfix so will drain down the system and give and let you know.

Would you recommend when I refill the system just to have the pumps on and not the boiler till its all vented?

John.G

Yes, that would be a good idea, also make sure you manually latch open both zone valves while re filling but ensure that they don't call in the pumps by switching off all power until system refilled.

heffo500

John.G wrote: »

Yes, that would be a good idea, also make sure you manually latch open both zone valves while re filling but ensure that they don't call in the pumps by switching off all power until system refilled.

Sound the boiler has a little consumer unit beside it so it'll be easy to power off the MCB while I do this, so should have the pumps back on straight or let it fill up first?

John.G

Fill first, zone valves open but without any pumps and vent all rads (without pumps) then run the pumps for say 10 minutes then stop and vent rads again, I generally would vent rads with pumps off even when system is hot.

heffo500

John.G wrote: »

Fill first, zone valves open but without any pumps and vent all rads (without pumps) then run the pumps for say 10 minutes then stop and vent rads again, I generally would vent rads with pumps off even when system is hot.

Still the same I'm afraid, would there be any value in swapping the two grundfos pumps? Have the alpha 1 as the primary on the flow?

John.G

What valves did you renew?

Was this affected zoned system working up to the time you changed to the Alpha 1L?

Does the primary UPS3 supply both zone valves, if so, and because one zone is working then I wouldn't change pumps.

Are you sure that the affected zone valve is actually opening?

John.G

I would shut down the affected zone, shut the alpha 1 isolating valves, remove the pump and prove via the isol valves that you actually have a water flow from both sides, you will have to open the zone valve as well.

heffo500

John.G wrote: »

What valves did you renew?

Was this affected zoned system working up to the time you changed to the Alpha 1L?

Does the primary UPS3 supply both zone valves, if so, and because one zone is working then I wouldn't change pumps.

Are you sure that the affected zone valve is actually opening?

It was working before I changed the pump but the old pump was leaking badly. I already swapped the pumps and the zone that was working is still heating ok.

heffo500

John.G wrote: »

I would shut down the affected zone, shut the alpha 1 isolating valves, remove the pump and prove via the isol valves that you actually have a water flow from both sides, you will have to open the zone valve as well.

I replaced one of the valves on the side of the zone pump, and opened both of them and water was coming out fine. I changed the gate valve on the zone as it was also leaking.

heffo500

I forgot to ask what is difference between the two grundfos pumps?

John.G

My internet is acting up.

The UPS3 basically has more settings than the Alpha 1

You said
"I already swapped the pumps and the zone that was working is still heating ok."

So that zone is working with the the old pump from the affected zone??, doesn't seem logical but can you relocate that pump back to the affected zone and the Alpha1 to the good zone and see what happens.

heffo500

John.G wrote: »

My internet is acting up.

The UPS3 basically has more settings than the Alpha 1

You said
"I already swapped the pumps and the zone that was working is still heating ok."

So that zone is working with the the old pump from the affected zone??, doesn't seem logical but can you relocate that pump back to the affected zone and the Alpha1 to the good zone and see what happens.

Yeah so the good zone on the system is working fine regardless of what pump I have as the main pump.

Just the zone in the house won't heat regardless of what I do. I have a guy coming tomorrow so I'll let you know what he says.

Thanks again for all the help, I cannot really understand what else we can do, could it be sludge?

John.G

Possibly sludge if this zone is on the ground floor and if you drained the system down originally, still you might have expected some flow somewhere, it still has all the hall marks of some shut valve or other but I think you have done all you can, good luck tomorrow.

heffo500

John.G wrote: »

Possibly sludge if this zone is on the ground floor and if you drained the system down originally, still you might have expected some flow somewhere, it still has all the hall marks of some shut valve or other but I think you have done all you can, good luck tomorrow.

It's on the house zone which is the second floor. The ground floor is 1 inch and works fine.

I've checked all the valves, can the motorised valve turn manually when you remove the head and not actually rotate in the body of the valve? It's seems to turn freely without the head

John.G

I wouldn't have expected the worst sludge up at that level.

When you remove the head I think the valve is only a 1/4 turn one, there may be two flats on it which I assume should align with the pipe when open, it might also come to a stop at either end of its 90 deg travel.

If the hot water cylinder also at that level then no heating either. only other thing I can think of is that the water from the F&E tank isnt giving the static head required for the second floor due to some blockage in the cold feed.

heffo500

John.G wrote: »

I wouldn't have expected the worst sludge up at that level.

When you remove the head I think the valve is only a 1/4 turn one, there may be two flats on it which I assume should align with the pipe when open, it might also come to a stop at either end of its 90 deg travel.

Yeah that's it, it's spins 360 degrees and inline with body is open and the motor is open and closing it ok. Just wondering why the heating isn't getting past there

John.G

What about the HW cylinder??

heffo500

John.G wrote: »

What about the HW cylinder??

Sorry missed this, hot water cylinder is on the same zone as the house that's not heating,

I can check the outlet for a blockage but it did fill up the rads fine.

John.G

The Adey mag filter is fitted to this zone??, make very sure that both isol valves on this are opened.

heffo500

John.G wrote: »

The Adey mag filter is fitted to this zone??, make very sure that both isol valves on this are opened.

Yeah that's open and water is coming out of the bleed nipple top of it.

Could the body of the motorised valve be blocked or faulty? I forgot to check it check was it open and clear.

John.G

The mot. valve is on the return?. so shut it, shut the filter outlet valve, open the vent and it should die down after a few minutes, reopen the mot. valve and water should flow out the vent?.

heffo500

John.G wrote: »

The mot. valve is on the return?. so shut it, shut the filter outlet valve, open the vent and it should die down after a few minutes, reopen the mot. valve and water should flow out the vent?.

Well the heating engineer came out, turns out it was a massive air lock on the return pipe of the zone.

He isolated the magnaclean and removed the lid and opened the return side and some water came then huge amount of air. All of the sudden the heat was flowing to the zone.

Thanks for all the help, I couldn't believe that's how he resolved it, such an easy fix in hindsight.

John.G

Glad you are sorted out, what settings did he leave the main circ and the Alph 1 pumps on?.