Discovery 3x09 - 'Terra Firma: Part 1' ~~ { ** Spoilers Within ** }

breezy1985

corkie wrote: »

The Guardian of Forever in Star Trek Discovery vs TOS vs TNG

Bosco wants his door back?

That staff dance in TNG is one of the stupidest looking things that show ever done along with the Ferengi monkeys in the same episode.

And I would take Discovery going to Dublin Zoo over the Mirror universe any day

Banana Republic 1

corkie wrote: »

You definitely predicted, but I was also right with saying there had be some 'timey wimey' involved.

It will be interesting how the story pans out now, as Georgiou is effectively creating an
alternative mirror universe timeline now.
If she is really in the past. She didn't kill Mirror Stamets, I believe lorca had him vaporized.

If Georgo is creating a new mirror timeline then the discovery timeline as is till now no longer exists, which means the show is shooting itself in the brain.

This episode brings back the Burnham hair do, either the shot this episode last or Mikey is wearing a wig.

corkie

Banana Republic 1 wrote: »

If Georgo is creating a new mirror timeline then the discovery timeline as is till now no longer exists, which means the show is shooting itself in the brain.

The prime timeline still exists when 'Nero' caused the 'Kelvin Timeline'.

All the prior different timelines have been now credited in show.
"Yor traveled from 2379 and via the alternate reality created by the temporal incursion of a Romulan mining ship." <<< Kelvin.

Banana Republic 1 wrote: »

This episode brings back the Burnham hair do, either the shot this episode last or Mikey is wearing a wig.

Definitely wigs, thought that was obvious?

Banana Republic 1

corkie wrote: »

The prime timeline still exists when 'Nero' caused the 'Kelvin Timeline'.

All the prior different timelines have been now credited in show.
"Yor traveled from 2379 and via the alternate reality created by the temporal incursion of a Romulan mining ship." <<< Kelvin.






Definitely wigs, thought that was obvious?

Discovery is set before the Kelvin line appeared therefore there was no other timeline up until this episode. If Georgeo has changed her future then the events that have happened in series 1 no longer will

breezy1985

Does anyone else find it weird when they call it the "prime" timeline in show. I thought those were just fan words

Hated it. The Evil mirror verse only works if you remove your brain and kick it around the room while watching.

The bedazzled uniforms, and the fake evil bravado from lovies is painful to watch. When we saw the whole crew together I was expecting them to do that clicky finger thing and burst into a song, 'we're evil, so evil. You better believe us. Soooo evil.'

breezy1985

Deleted User wrote: »

Hated it. The Evil mirror verse only works if you remove your brain and kick it around the room while watching.

The bedazzled uniforms, and the fake evil bravado from lovies is painful to watch. When we saw the whole crew together I was expecting them to do that clicky finger thing and burst into a song, 'we're evil, so evil. You better believe us. Soooo evil.'

And the amount of noise they make with those uniforms just giving a solute

corkie

Banana Republic 1 wrote: »

Discovery is set before the Kelvin line appeared therefore there was no other timeline up until this episode. If Georgeo has changed her future then the events that have happened in series 1 no longer will

Reason why I used if she has traveled to the past?
If she is in the past, and generating a new timeline, events can play out differently. Maybe even killing Mirror Lorca before he gets swapped in to prime universe. Consider the timelines as fork's where everything we know still happens in one but not the other.


I quoted a discussion in the 32nd century, that took place while 'in the present' so they know of the 'Kelvin Universe'.


Did Star Trek: Discovery’s Georgiou Just Create a New Timeline?


Headaches: Temporal Mechanics : Original timeline has to continue to exist, so 'Georgiou' is able to travel to the past to create a new timeline.

alchemist33

Next week may be the first time I haven't looked forward to coming home on Friday and watching Disco with my youngest (even if there's still a lot I don't like about it). Alt-reality episodes on every other tv show have often left me cold, with the nagging suspicion they're there so the cast can have a bit of craic playing the same character with opposite characteristics.

TheValeyard

[Deleted User] wrote: »

Hated it. The Evil mirror verse only works if you remove your brain and kick it around the room while watching.

The bedazzled uniforms, and the fake evil bravado from lovies is painful to watch. When we saw the whole crew together I was expecting them to do that clicky finger thing and burst into a song, 'we're evil, so evil. You better believe us. Soooo evil.'

A few hours in the agony booth will change your perspective!

Sonics2k

What the **** did I just watch? Seriously, what was that episode? What's going on with this stuff?

Banana Republic 1

TheValeyard wrote: »

A few hours in the agony booth will change your perspective!

Leave her in there

TheValeyard

TheValeyard wrote: »

A few hours in the agony booth will change your perspective!

So basically watching that episode on repeat :pac:

Rawr

Not bad this week, but more of a strangely boring episode, and possibly the most bored I've been watching a Mirror episode...which are usually my favorite in any Trek show.

They dialled down the Michael again in favour of Georgiou, which did help the episode. But when her Mirror version turned up I had actually started to wonder if I was mistaken for giving Martin-Green any benefit of the doubt regarding her acting abilities. She played that character like some kind of pantomime villain. If this was some kind of parody I could buy into it, but I think she was actually trying their best to play a Mirror Michael, and it was not good. It doesn't look like she has much of a range. I'm starting to think that Martin-Green deserves at least some of the blame for making Michael such an unlikable character. Alas, this would also mean that improvement of the character isn't possible without re-casting or serious acting-lessons, which I feel is unlikely.

One big plus I actually liked was Discovery finally showing an artefact of the TNG-era, with a TNG Season-1 style Gold-Uniform. It was a small thing, but I liked it. Also, really liking that Admiral. I hope to God they don't swing around and reveal him as some kind of villain, that would annoy me no-end.

This was very clearly a Bottle episode, one of at least 2 I've noticed so far. Makes me wonder if they're are having cash issues, especially when the seasons are so short. We spent a lot of time on ISS Discovery, which seems like an odd choice to transport the Terran Emperor. I feel it would have been more likely she'd travel on Ex-USS Defiant, or maybe even the ISS Enterprise, or some other important Heavy Cruiser.

Bits of the episode were set up well, but the achilles heel of it all for me is that I couldn't really care less about Emperor Georgiou or what happens to her. I get the feeling that the writers had hoped that the viewer had started to love her by now, and would care...but I just don't. Leave her to die in the Mirror Universe for all I care. She eats Kelpians for fun FFS. Would have been a lot more interesting if that Guardian popped up now and again to explain the stakes in the time-line for her actions. Otherwise it's just generic Mirror Universe back-stabbing, which isn't even fun anymore in this show's version.

Banana Republic 1

If they have personal transporters why didn’t Mikey S and Georgeo just beam to the door instead of walking through Canada ?

TheValeyard

[Deleted User] wrote: »

So basically watching that episode on repeat :pac:

Well played.




























Have him executed by beaming into space.

TheValeyard

Banana Republic 1 wrote: »

If they have personal transporters why didn’t Mikey S and Georgeo just beam to the door instead of walking through Canada ?

It's Canada, that wouldn't be polite.

Liamalone

TheValeyard wrote: »

It's Canada, that wouldn't be polite.

Sorry.

Banana Republic 1

This is a genuine review from Nerdrotic of this episode, no woke bashing stuff for first half hour or so. Watch it or don’t it’s up to you, I only watch his discovery stuff because it not the cynical crap you normally get from other std reviews.

I will say that I don’t go in entirely for this woke sjw conspiracy stuff so you all need not jump on your high horses.

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=Uv-MZVVsHek

seamus

I don't like the Mirror Universe. What began as a tacky, awful episode of TOS has spawned this ridiculous monster. TNG and VOY never used it and you don't miss it. Yesterday's Enterprise and Living Witness explored the same theme without being ridiculous or crapping all over canon.

DS9 overused it, and despite it being a bit of craic with Lorca in season 1, I've always felt it was one of Discovery's weak points; the fact that so much of Discovery'a plotlines are dependent on the mirror universe.

The door man is about the most interesting part of this episode as well as the little nod to the Kelvin universe. As someone else mentioned, I would much rather they had moved on with the main plotline instead of this thing. I'm kind of hoping that the next episode will conclude with Georgiou realising that her time in the Prime universe has changed her and she has no interest in doing the evil emperor facade any more. The guardian will tell her that he can't fix the cellular issue, but he can return her to the 23rd century Prime universe, where she can survive and she can take her spot in S31. Then Georgiou and the Mirror universe are gone, and all is good with the world.

feelings

Sonics2k wrote: »

What the **** did I just watch? Seriously, what was that episode? What's going on with this stuff?

^^ this x 100. WTF did I just watch? Awful sh1te.

GreeBo

Rawr wrote: »

But when her Mirror version turned up I had actually started to wonder if I was mistaken for giving Martin-Green any benefit of the doubt regarding her acting abilities. She played that character like some kind of pantomime villain.

Kira Nerys Mirror was also that pantomime character, but not as bad I guess.

Rawr

GreeBo wrote: »

Kira Nerys Mirror was also that pantomime character, but not as bad I guess.

Mirror Kira was ridiculous but somehow they she did a good job playing the role as a sadistic & cruel sex-fiend. This was a interesting juxposition of Kira, who hated Dukat for the very same crimes that her Mirror version carried out in glee.

It was cheesy as all hell, and got pretty tiresome by the time we got to the second and third mirror episode in DS9, but Nana Visitor had the range to make it fun for what it was. Martin-Green however is no fun at all. In this she was just regular Michael except eeeeeeeeevil (Mu ha ha ha!!!)

Sleepy

seamus wrote: »

I'm kind of hoping that the next episode will conclude with Georgiou realising that her time in the Prime universe has changed her and she has no interest in doing the evil emperor facade any more. The guardian will tell her that he can't fix the cellular issue, but he can return her to the 23rd century Prime universe, where she can survive and she can take her spot in S31. Then Georgiou and the Mirror universe are gone, and all is good with the world.

And Michael will finally realise that she doesn't have a place on the crew of the Discovery, join Georgiou in the doomed S31 spin off and Star Trek fans can live happily ever after? I mean, it *is* Christmas but I don't think even Santa's that powerful... :pac:

TheValeyard

Rawr wrote: »

Mirror Kira was ridiculous but somehow they she did a good job playing the role as a sadistic & cruel sex-fiend. This was a interesting juxposition of Kira, who hated Dukat for the very same crimes that her Mirror version carried out in glee.

It was cheesy as all hell, and got pretty tiresome by the time we got to the second and third mirror episode in DS9, but Nana Visitor had the range to make it fun for what it was. Martin-Green however is no fun at all. In this she was just regular Michael except eeeeeeeeevil (Mu ha ha ha!!!)

I enjoyed Mirror O'brien, or Smiley as he preferred to be called. He was well written.

breezy1985

GreeBo wrote: »

Kira Nerys Mirror was also that pantomime character, but not as bad I guess.

Kira was fun at first and it was only her acting panto at the time. Since than people have run with it and the whole MU has turned into the bisexual BDSM sex hungry universe cause apparently thats all evil

De Bhál

Watched 15mins and went to bed.
It was so bad it turned me off even switching the channel. It made me give up on tv for the evening.

The Expanse will be back very soon. Disco can take a back seat for the next while.

Banana Republic 1

breezy1985 wrote: »

Kira was fun at first and it was only her acting panto at the time. Since than people have run with it and the whole MU has turned into the bisexual BDSM sex hungry universe cause apparently thats all evil

Nana visitor as an actor has range this crowd are all commercial actors, ie toothpaste commercials

GreeBo

Deleted User wrote: »

The Expanse will be back very soon. Disco can take a back seat for the next while.

Started shooting season 3 of The Orville this December also.
Was thinking about it, I think every major character has had at least 1 episode dedicated to them on The Orville, so you kinda feel like you know them.

Goodshape

GreeBo wrote: »

Started shooting season 3 of The Orville this December also.
Was thinking about it, I think every major character has had at least 1 episode dedicated to them on The Orville, so you kinda feel like you know them.

It's worth keeping in mind that most of the bridge crew are not "major characters" on Discovery.

In TNG, DS9, Voyager, and Enterprise, (and Orville), all the bridge crew were name-checked in the opening credits and were unquestionably co-stars. In Discovery, for better or worse, that's not the case.

The major characters on the show over the three seasons have been:

- Michael Burnham
- Saru
- Ash Tyler / Voq
- Paul Stamets
- Sylvia Tilly
- Gabriel Lorca
- Hugh Culber
- Christopher Pike
- Book

The others are just recurring and/or guest roles. Unusual for a Trek show not to be focused on the bridge crew, but there you have it.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Star_Trek:_Discovery_characters

CastorTroy

Side note, but anyone watching on netflix now have Discovery in their "Continue Watching" at season 1 episode 1 after watching this episode?

GreeBo

^ Fair point.
i guess its just so against every other ST series it stands out (and I'm not sure if it works tbh, I dont see how the bridge crew of a star ship based series could be anything other than main cast...)

~Rebel~

CastorTroy wrote: »

Side note, but anyone watching on netflix now have Discovery in their "Continue Watching" at season 1 episode 1 after watching this episode?

Sure it’s not in your ‘Watch it again’ section from the start? Once you’re up to date, as far as the UI is concerned the show is over until a new episode pops up on Friday, and it switches back into ‘Continue Watching’. Unless you’d actually selected it in the meantime, in which case I presume it’ll have gone into Continue Watching from the start.

CastorTroy

CastorTroy wrote: »

Side note, but anyone watching on netflix now have Discovery in their "Continue Watching" at season 1 episode 1 after watching this episode?

Yeah it always does that til there is a new ep then it switches itself back to the latest ep

Goodshape

GreeBo wrote: »

^ Fair point.
i guess its just so against every other ST series it stands out (and I'm not sure if it works tbh, I dont see how the bridge crew of a star ship based series could be anything other than main cast...)

yeah, I don't think it's worked out too well at all. When you take that main cast list into account, it's easy to see why the show feels so disjointed a lot of the time.

Top-billed characters / actors are whatever rank or position Burnham has this week, then the commander (eventually captain), a scientist or whatever Stamets is supposed to be, his boyfriend - not the CMO or ships councillor but acts like both anyway, a ditsy ensign who for no good reason is also suddenly first officer... then just a smattering of even more random people.

All. Over. The. Shop.

AllForIt

De Bhál wrote: »

Watched 15mins and went to bed.
It was so bad it turned me off even switching the channel. It made me give up on tv for the evening.

Yeah this exactly happened to me. About 15-20 mins in and it just dawned on my I have no interest is this I may as well turn it off. Don't know why I'm tuning in the day it's released as if I'm dying to see the next episode. I suppose it's just a reflex and some hope that it might actually be good but I think it's pretty clear now that it will never be good or even close. I hope all those minorities, be it red heads, tall ppl, Africans, chubby ppl, sassy ppl, will be happy to be represented on a TV show if only a crap one.

I didn't think the first 2 seasons were great but at the same time they weren't as bad as S3, they were at least watchable. Clearly what is foremost in the minds of the producers is not classic Star Trek but some other concern I have no interest in. I would be very surprised if it's renewed for a fourth season.

Banana Republic 1

CastorTroy wrote: »

Side note, but anyone watching on netflix now have Discovery in their "Continue Watching" at season 1 episode 1 after watching this episode?

On Netflix after you've watch the latest episode of something it reverts back to the very first episode automatically.

Banana Republic 1

Goodshape wrote: »

yeah, I don't think it's worked out too well at all. When you take that main cast list into account, it's easy to see why the show feels so disjointed a lot of the time.

Top-billed characters / actors are whatever rank or position Burnham has this week, then the commander (eventually captain), a scientist or whatever Stamets is supposed to be, his boyfriend - not the CMO or ships councillor but acts like both anyway, a ditsy ensign who for no good reason is also suddenly first officer... then just a smattering of even more random people.

All. Over. The. Shop.

Tilly has been promoted to the rank of PA to Saru not first officer when compared to other ST commanders

Actually, watching Star Trek 2009. Kirk was promoted to No.1 in less time than Tilly... and Captain soon after .

Sonics2k

Goodshape wrote: »

It's worth keeping in mind that most of the bridge crew are not "major characters" on Discovery.

In TNG, DS9, Voyager, and Enterprise, (and Orville), all the bridge crew were name-checked in the opening credits and were unquestionably co-stars. In Discovery, for better or worse, that's not the case.

The major characters on the show over the three seasons have been:

- Michael Burnham
- Saru
- Ash Tyler / Voq
- Paul Stamets
- Sylvia Tilly
- Gabriel Lorca
- Hugh Culber
- Christopher Pike
- Book

The others are just recurring and/or guest roles. Unusual for a Trek show not to be focused on the bridge crew, but there you have it.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Star_Trek:_Discovery_characters

I think it's rather generous to have them all listed as major characters, at best I'd say Burnham and Saru would be the major characters. The others being side characters with a vague story line thrown in.

Also, what's the deal with the alternate universe? I'm fine with Trek doing the alternate universe thing, it does it a lot and it's generally fine.

What really grinds my gears about it is the whole "they were heavy black mascara so you can tell they're all evil" laziness. It's one of the oldest and worst tropes out there, even South Park took the piss out of that years ago with the AU characters having goatee's.

~Rebel~

Goodshape wrote: »

yeah, I don't think it's worked out too well at all. When you take that main cast list into account, it's easy to see why the show feels so disjointed a lot of the time.

Top-billed characters / actors are whatever rank or position Burnham has this week, then the commander (eventually captain), a scientist or whatever Stamets is supposed to be, his boyfriend - not the CMO or ships councillor but acts like both anyway, a ditsy ensign who for no good reason is also suddenly first officer... then just a smattering of even more random people.

All. Over. The. Shop.

Yeah, this is a big part of the problem... most of them are just there to talk, and to be foils for whatever CW personal drama the writers have cooked up, rather than to actually do things.

Normally you have the crew display their competencies in different ways, showing their 'special skills'. It's sort of the base level character building on a 'crew' based tv show of any kind. But here we very very occasionally get snippets of that - like Detmer's one moment of flying in 3 seasons. Something like the parasitic ice would have been an easy opportunity for someone to come up with something clever, but the show just sidesteps all those moments. Or the seed vault.. but instead the solution is just 'nah, i'll just stay here forever'. Stamets has far more moments of being a counselor and friend than being any sort of engineer or scientist now - the only time he ever actually does work is the 6 seconds he pops his hands into the goo, and that's it. It's just all fluff, with no spine to hold it together.

And Mike herself is an absolutely awful science officer, except for when the story suddenly requires her to have an encyclopedic knowledge of every aspect of some random obscure thing. But in her general behavior, she's never curious, she's never analytical, she's just pure emotional reaction. Like, in just the last episode she pushes for them to try to save Georgiu by going to some unknown ice planet that will supposedly be able to fix G's cross-time/dimensional illness. So you know obviously the solution is probably gonna be a bit mad. But from the second they reach yer man, she's straight into wide eyed flabbergasted panic mode trying to get them to leave again. There's just no consistency to who she is or what she wants.

On another 'crew' based issue - they've kinda taken the 'Trek' out of Star Trek. They now pretty much exclusively fast-travel their way around the place, instantly getting to their destination. It just feels a bit empty or something... and equally, it feels weird that they're not absolutely always on the go, bringing aid to places, and setting back up communications across the federation.

Banana Republic 1

[Deleted User] wrote: »

Actually, watching Star Trek 2009. Kirk was promoted to No.1 in less time than Tilly... and Captain soon after .

Ya but Kirk did have a back story and the audience knew about his character so the story didn’t have to justify it.

Deleted User

Deleted User wrote: »

Actually, watching Star Trek 2009. Kirk was promoted to No.1 in less time than Tilly... and Captain soon after .

And that was also fecking stupid beyond belief

GreeBo

~Rebel~ wrote: »

Something like the parasitic ice would have been an easy opportunity for someone to come up with something clever, but the show just sidesteps all those moments.

100% Wesley would have solved it with some homework he had lying around.

And Mike herself is an absolutely awful science officer, except for when the story suddenly requires her to have an encyclopedic knowledge of every aspect of some random obscure thing. But in her general behavior, she's never curious, she's never analytical, she's just pure emotional reaction. Like, in just the last episode she pushes for them to try to save Georgiu by going to some unknown ice planet that will supposedly be able to fix G's cross-time/dimensional illness. So you know obviously the solution is probably gonna be a bit mad. But from the second they reach yer man, she's straight into wide eyed flabbergasted panic mode trying to get them to leave again. There's just no consistency to who she is or what she wants.

Well she didnt know that you need more than 3 points to find the origin for the burn....ensign Tilly had to point that out I believe....

On another 'crew' based issue - they've kinda taken the 'Trek' out of Star Trek. They now pretty much exclusively fast-travel their way around the place, instantly getting to their destination. It just feels a bit empty or something... and equally, it feels weird that they're not absolutely always on the go, bringing aid to places, and setting back up communications across the federation.

Yeah, there is no "how long at maximum warp!?" scenarios anymore.
It kinda rips through lots of potential storylines.

Admiral whats his face should be turning Discovery into the biggest, baddest gunship possible and they zap around the galaxy solving all the problems.
The end.

Deleted User

Deleted User wrote: »

And that was also fecking stupid beyond belief

In fairness, he did just save the world

TheValeyard

GreeBo wrote: »

100% Wesley would have solved it with some homework he had lying around.


Well she didnt know that you need more than 3 points to find the origin for the burn....ensign Tilly had to point that out I believe....


Yeah, there is no "how long at maximum warp!?" scenarios anymore.
It kinda rips through lots of potential storylines.

Admiral whats his face should be turning Discovery into the biggest, baddest gunship possible and they zap around the galaxy solving all the problems.
The end.

Could literally take out the entire Emerald Chain in one day of strikes.

flazio

GreeBo wrote: »

Admiral whats his face should be turning Discovery into the biggest, baddest gunship possible and they zap around the galaxy solving all the problems.
The end.

Nope, he should be equipping every single star ship in their arsenal with a spore drive. Also, there's a president of the Federation but what's the highest rank in Starfleet? Who do Admirals report to?

Dave0301

flazio wrote: »

Nope, he should be equipping every single star ship in their arsenal with a spore drive. Also, there's a president of the Federation but what's the highest rank in Starfleet? Who do Admirals report to?

Fleet Admiral, who may or may not be the commander-in-chief depending on what the current president of Starfleet is up to.

It would appear that is Vance in Discovery.

CastorTroy

~Rebel~ wrote: »

Sure it’s not in your ‘Watch it again’ section from the start? Once you’re up to date, as far as the UI is concerned the show is over until a new episode pops up on Friday, and it switches back into ‘Continue Watching’. Unless you’d actually selected it in the meantime, in which case I presume it’ll have gone into Continue Watching from the start.

bluewolf wrote: »

Yeah it always does that til there is a new ep then it switches itself back to the latest ep

Banana Republic 1 wrote: »

On Netflix after you've watch the latest episode of something it reverts back to the very first episode automatically.

Usually for me, it would disappear from my "Continue Watching" until the new episode comes out. So could have 2 things in there, new Discovery comes out it goes up to 3, I watch and it goes back down to 2.