Property price register

Bluefoam

I bought a new build house recently and just checked the price register... The sale price has been miss reported. It's lower by tens of thousands of euro...

I know that they possibly split the purchase into the land and the building, but surely this type of false reporting is counter productive...

How can we be expected to make good purchasing decisions if 1. The government aren't collecting accurate data & 2. The developers are providing inaccurate data.

gipi

New builds are recorded in the register ex VAT. That should explain the difference.

rubberdungeon

Bluefoam wrote: »

I bought a new build house recently and just checked the price register... The sale price has been miss reported. It's lower by tens of thousands of euro...

I know that they possibly split the purchase into the land and the building, but surely this type of false reporting is counter productive...

How can we be expected to make good purchasing decisions if 1. The government aren't collecting accurate data & 2. The developers are providing inaccurate data.

As far I know new builds are shown without VAT, would that account for the difference you’re seeing?

Spanish Eyes

Should be based on Eircode. I have heard that many have moved a letter or something to avoid being checked by nosey neighbours! But I suppose that depends on how accurate the stats are collected by the Statutory Agencies, they either do it right or not.

Happens all the time.

But I would have thought new builds would be more accurate. And agree new builds are priced ex VAT AFAIk.

Darc19

Bluefoam wrote: »

I bought a new build house recently and just checked the price register... The sale price has been miss reported. It's lower by tens of thousands of euro...

I know that they possibly split the purchase into the land and the building, but surely this type of false reporting is counter productive...

How can we be expected to make good purchasing decisions if 1. The government aren't collecting accurate data & 2. The developers are providing inaccurate data.

You could always read what it states very clearly that new houses are recorded ex vat.

But you'd rather go on a rant that makes you look rather foolish.


Just in case you don't understand still - divide the price you paid by 1.135 and this will most likely match the price online.

Bluefoam

Darc19 wrote: »

You could always read what it states very clearly that new houses are recorded ex vat.

But you'd rather go on a rant that makes you look rather foolish.


Just in case you don't understand still - divide the price you paid by 1.135 and this will most likely match the price online.

Thanks big man

Darc19

Spanish Eyes wrote: »

Should be based on Eircode. I have heard that many have moved a letter or something to avoid being checked by nosey neighbours! But I suppose that depends on how accurate the stats are collected by the Statutory Agencies, they either do it right or not.

Happens all the time.

But I would have thought new builds would be more accurate. And agree new builds are priced ex VAT AFAIk.

More BS

Quote from ppr
"The Register is compiled from data which is filed, for stamp duty purposes, with the Revenue Commissioners."


It's not inputted by estate agents or buyers. It's the official stamp duty records which are highly unlikely to be wrong.

Geuze

AFAIK, the data is inputted by the sol.

There are address ambiguities.

Different spellings, etc.

Example:

you sell a house in Oak Hill estate.

Is it Oakhill?

Or is it Oak Hill?

Bluefoam

If I multiply by 1.135 it works out at almost 20k more than I paid... Again, the information lacks consistency...

It's supposed to help people make informed buying decisions, but confused reporting doesn't benefit potential buyers...

tnegun

Sorry to hijack but any idea why similar properties in the same estate would be sold for up to 60% less than market value?

Zaph

Bluefoam wrote: »

If I multiply by 1.135 it works out at almost 20k more than I paid... Again, the information lacks consistency...

It's supposed to help people make informed buying decisions, but confused reporting doesn't benefit potential buyers...

Divide the price you paid by 1.135, not multiply.

Bluefoam

Zaph wrote: »

Divide the price you paid by 1.135, not multiply.

Thanks... It's still out by nearly 20k

brisan

tnegun wrote: »

Sorry to hijack but any idea why similar properties in the same estate would be sold for up to 60% less than market value?

It could a separation agreement where one partner sells out to the other
It could be a death of the owner and one of the children buying out the others

Cyrus

Bluefoam wrote: »

Thanks... It's still out by nearly 20k

to be fair the PPR is generally correct on prices, its just addresses and multiple units where it falls down.

so if for example you paid 650k for your house it would show as 572,687 on the PPR and if you multiply that by 1.135 you get 650k,

is that calculation not working?

Bluefoam

Cyrus wrote: »

to be fair the PPR is generally correct on prices, its just addresses and multiple units where it falls down.

so if for example you paid 650k for your house it would show as 572,687 on the PPR and if you multiply that by 1.135 you get 650k,

is that calculation not working?

That calculation is not working

Cyrus

Bluefoam wrote: »

That calculation is not working

your solicitor will be the one that the did the stamp duty return then, they will know.

Cyrus

was there any deal where the developer gave you an allowance for flooring or anything ? sometimes they do that to give a discount but keep the prices at the advertised level.

SuperGrover

Bought a new build a few months ago.

Saw on the PPR that it is listed as 40k more than we paid.

javaboy

I know of a refurbished one bed apartment that is reported as a new build on the PPR. It was one of many that underwent extensive refurbishment i.e. new floors, tiling, kitchens etc. but no structural changes.

The other apts. are reported as second hand on the PPR.

Would the buyer have underpaid stamp duty as a result?

sanfranbest

PPR is a total joke,,,,,
It shows very little information,
Square meters, how many bedrooms, bathrooms etc,

Look at Zillow in the USA, it has tons of information for the prospective buyer or seller.

https://www.zillow.com/

I wish Ireland had something similar to Zillow,

Cyrus

sanfranbest wrote: »

PPR is a total joke,,,,,
It shows very little information,
Square meters, how many bedrooms, bathrooms etc,

Look at Zillow in the USA, it has tons of information for the prospective buyer or seller.

https://www.zillow.com/

I wish Ireland had something similar to Zillow,

It’s better than what we had before and nothing to stop someone presenting the Information that Zillow do if they are that way inclined !

sanfranbest

And why do EA's purposely post addresses so you cannot find what the house sold for,

Look at this entry by an EA..................

91 CIRCULAR RD SOUTH, APT 1, PORTOBELLO, Dublin 8

Eircodes should be mandatory,,

Cyrus

sanfranbest wrote: »

And why do EA's purposely post addresses so you cannot find what the house sold for,

Look at this entry by an EA..................

91 CIRCULAR RD SOUTH, APT 1, PORTOBELLO, Dublin 8

Eircodes should be mandatory,,

Estate agents aren’t the culprits here , it’s the solicitor

xper

Cyrus wrote: »

sanfranbest wrote: »

And why do EA's purposely post addresses so you cannot find what the house sold for,

Look at this by an EA..................

91 CIRCULAR RD SOUTH, APT 1, PORTOBELLO, Dublin 8

Eircodes should be mandatory,,

Estate agents aren’t the culprits here , it’s the solicitor

And that example is nothing. I've seen house name and street changes and even a few cases of just the folio number being listed.

wench

sanfranbest wrote: »

PPR is a total joke,,,,,
It shows very little information,
Square meters, how many bedrooms, bathrooms etc,

It's compiled from the data Revenue collect to administer stamp duty.
As none of those factors affect the amount charged, Revenue have no cause to collect them, regardless of how useful or interesting they would be.

JimmyVik

sanfranbest wrote: »

And why do EA's purposely post addresses so you cannot find what the house sold for,

Look at this entry by an EA..................

91 CIRCULAR RD SOUTH, APT 1, PORTOBELLO, Dublin 8

Eircodes should be mandatory,,

Ive seen that
I think people are instructing their solicitors to do that because they dont want nosey acquaintances checking out what they are buying and selling for.
And I say that as a nosey acquaintance

recyclebin

It's supposed to be a public record and should not have loopholes or inaccuracies. Mandatory Eircode would be a big improvement, especially for anything rural. Being a nosey neighbour is irrelevant.

Surely it's easy for state agencies to spot inconsistencies between the property price register and the address used for property tax?

recyclebin

JimmyVik wrote: »

Ive seen that
I think people are instructing their solicitors to do that because they dont want nosey acquaintances checking out what they are buying and selling for.
And I say that as a nosey acquaintance

Surely, something like this should be illegal and come with big fines and penalties. Otherwise it makes the whole system a joke. What happens if I contact the Property Services Regulatory Authority? Are they obliged to correct it? I've seen properties in Dublin listed as in Mayo FFS!

JimmyVik

I know we are all nosey and like to have this info, myself included but
personally i dont think private information, like how much a person bought or sold their house for should be public.
Maybe an average price for an area or something like that, but the PPR is personally identifiable information. And of the most sensitive kind too.

Claw Hammer

wench wrote: »

It's compiled from the data Revenue collect to administer stamp duty.
As none of those factors affect the amount charged, Revenue have no cause to collect them, regardless of how useful or interesting they would be.

The data used to collect stamp duty comes from the LPT registered address. It is not the EAs fault, nor the solicitors. Blame the software used when LPT was set up.

mrslancaster

JimmyVik wrote: »

I know we are all nosey and like to have this info, myself included but
personally i dont think private information, like how much a person bought or sold their house for should be public.
Maybe an average price for an area or something like that, but the PPR is personally identifiable information. And of the most sensitive kind too.

I wondered about that and if it is still legal to post personal information like that on a public database. There was no GDPR legislation when the PPR was set up. Does the PPR not have to comply with the GDPR regulations?

listermint

JimmyVik wrote: »

I know we are all nosey and like to have this info, myself included but
personally i dont think private information, like how much a person bought or sold their house for should be public.
Maybe an average price for an area or something like that, but the PPR is personally identifiable information. And of the most sensitive kind too.

Who cares ?

Without being funny you could get within 10 or 20k of the figure very easily.

So why be all weird about it.

Marcusm

mrslancaster wrote: »

I wondered about that and if it is still legal to post personal information like that on a public database. There was no GDPR legislation when the PPR was set up. Does the PPR not have to comply with the GDPR regulations?

You do realise that there are public policy exceptions to GDPR? Don’t you know that I can consult the public register to establish when and where you were born, married and/or died plus to whom your granny bequeathed her possessions?

mrslancaster

Marcusm wrote: »

You do realise that there are public policy exceptions to GDPR? Don’t you know that I can consult the public register to establish when and where you were born, married and/or died plus to whom your granny bequeathed her possessions?

Yes but that information is not available online at the click of a mouse - afaik you would have to go to a bit of effort to get that information.

beauf

Why was the property price register set up. Is it clearly defined somewhere? What's is ultimate purpose.

Smiley11

listermint wrote: »

Who cares ?

Without being funny you could get within 10 or 20k of the figure very easily.

So why be all weird about it.

IMO the only people who don't want PPR figures available at the click of a button are those who never intend to move again or maybe theres an air of grandeur about it. There may be many more interested parties but they don't interest me.

In the last 5 years I've sold 2 properties, bought 1 investment & am in the market for our final home. I don't care who knows how much my properties went for, what matters to me is how much properties in the areas we're interested in go for. The last bust was a complete sh1t show & I think we're entitled to whatever clarity we can get in the property market as its infinitely ambiguous.

The PPR is far from perfect. I think the Eircode on any property should be mandatory but hopefully that will evolve yet. Too easy to fiddle the entries & it can be very difficult to monitor properties. Thats just me..sometimes there have to be exceptions & the biggest investment of your life deserves clarity.

Darc19

sanfranbest wrote: »

And why do EA's purposely post addresses so you cannot find what the house sold for,

Look at this entry by an EA..................

91 CIRCULAR RD SOUTH, APT 1, PORTOBELLO, Dublin 8

Eircodes should be mandatory,,

I can't see anything wrong with that.

A quick guess is that this was originally a house at 91 Circular Road South (commonly known as SCR) and converted / redeveloped into apartments and #1 has been sold.

JimmyVik

mrslancaster wrote: »

I wondered about that and if it is still legal to post personal information like that on a public database. There was no GDPR legislation when the PPR was set up. Does the PPR not have to comply with the GDPR regulations?

I think its legal or they wouldnt be doing it.
There is an exception to GDPR for it.

Claw Hammer

Darc19 wrote: »

I can't see anything wrong with that.

A quick guess is that this was originally a house at 91 Circular Road South (commonly known as SCR) and converted / redeveloped into apartments and #1 has been sold.

That is what is on the LPT register. Nothing to do with the EA. It was probably compiled by software used by the Revenue when LPT was set up. They now insist the LPT address is the one used when stamping the deeds. Nothing to do with the solicitors.
The reason the eircode was brought in was nothing to do with post but so computer systems would eventually start recording eircodes and addresses would become matchable across different platforms.

Dolbhad

Darc19 wrote: »

More BS

Quote from ppr
"The Register is compiled from data which is filed, for stamp duty purposes, with the Revenue Commissioners."


It's not inputted by estate agents or buyers. It's the official stamp duty records which are highly unlikely to be wrong.

This is correct. And when your solicitor files a stamp duty return and it’s a second hand house, the address is actually determined by the LPT property number which is required to be put in, not the eircode so no body has the choice to “change” the address. New builds won’t have an LPT number so would be the address as per the deed.

sanfranbest

Darc19 wrote: »

I can't see anything wrong with that.

A quick guess is that this was originally a house at 91 Circular Road South (commonly known as SCR) and converted / redeveloped into apartments and #1 has been sold.

The address is 91 South Circular road,
The whole property was sold,, 8 apartments,,,, not just apartment #1,,

Everything is wrong with the details entered,,,

Dolbhad

sanfranbest wrote: »

The address is 91 South Circular road,
The whole property was sold,, 8 apartments,,,, not just apartment #1,,

Everything is wrong with the details entered,,,

I’ve filed plenty of stamp duty returns in my time.
If the whole block of apartments was sold in one transaction for one price - on the stamp duty return you are limited to putting in only one lpt property ID number. Usually you just put in the first one to hand. This is what revenue work from and shows up on PPR. However in the stamp duty return you have to outline there are a number of properties sold in this price and provide revenue separately the rest of the lpt ID numbers so revenue know who to contact for lpt.