READ SUMMARY IN POST 986 - Amazon.uk Post-Brexit

harmless

Yes Airmail within the EU has required a description of contents for a while now, some items are banned for safety reasons.

ussjtrunks

What happens if a package ships before jan 1 with no monetary value on it but arrives in Ireland like jan 2nd how do they figure out how much the package is worth?

Rows Grower

ussjtrunks wrote: »

What happens if a package ships before jan 1 with no monetary value on it but arrives in Ireland like jan 2nd how do they figure out how much the package is worth?

Google.

tobeme2020

harmless wrote: »

Good question, that may not be possible because many UK residents own credit and debit cards from all over the world. It's the address that decides which VAT you pay with Amazon.

Services like parcel motel and addresspal may no longer be viable.

What won't be possible, the extra taxes or being able to order with the Irish card.

Sheep Shagger

CelticRambler wrote: »

But AliExpress is usually about a quarter of the price of Amazon for the same stuff.

Aliexpress ls mostly rip off stuff isn't it and everyone knows that in advance. Amazon is not.

The international postal agreement that allows China to ship for free also exists, won't be around forever though.

Choosehowevr.

I've an order waiting to be shipped

Will there be charges, items are fulfilled.by Amazon

Jim2007

Sheep Shagger wrote: »

Aliexpress ls mostly rip off stuff isn't it and everyone knows that in advance. Amazon is not.

Depends on what you are talking about. Most electronic components etc.. are the same.

Sheep Shagger wrote: »

The international postal agreement that allows China to ship for free also exists, won't be around forever though.

It's up to the China postal services, if they are are willing to pay or not.

CelticRambler

Sheep Shagger wrote: »

Aliexpress ls mostly rip off stuff isn't it and everyone knows that in advance. Amazon is not.

In the past year, my "unsatisfactory" orders from Amazon outnumber those from AliExpress by 5 to 1. My one unsatisfactory order with Ali was resolved very quickly, and with a replacement product of superior quality to the one I'd originally ordered. For the most part, if I'm buying relatively small components, I can find the exact same item (going by the pictures and descriptions) at anything up to one tenth of the cost on Ali, but then I can also find conventional stuff cheaper on independent French sites that is either more expensive or just not available on Amazon.

A possible benefit of Brexit for the Irish in Ireland might well be to force consumers to think outside of the Amazon.co.uk box.

(Full disclosure: in the past month, I've ordered from suppliers in the UK, Germany, China and France, including Amazon.co.uk, so have no particular loyalty or dependence on any one supplier. Mind you, I live in continental EU, so don't have worry about weird stuff like needing English instruction manuals or British plugs! :pac: )

Quackster

tobeme2020 wrote: »

What won't be possible, the extra taxes or being able to order with the Irish card.

The likelihood is that UK retailers shipping to AddressPal, Parcel Motel etc will have to charge UK VAT and then you'll have to pay Irish VAT (plus the customs admin fee) on top of that. Easy to see how using these services won't make economic sense.

CelticRambler

Quackster wrote: »

The likelihood is that UK retailers shipping to AddressPal, Parcel Motel etc will have to charge UK VAT and then you'll have to pay Irish VAT (plus the customs admin fee) on top of that. Easy to see how using these services won't make economic sense.

Jeeeez. Still missing the point. UK retailers shipping to a virtual address in GB are selling domestically to a customer who's passing themselves off as a GB customer. Their packaging and their documentation is just not set up for export, and definitely not set up for import into the EU. Parcel Motel is not, never was, and never will be a freight forwarder and customs handling agent. AddressPal sort of is, and charges for its service.

The future difficulties for virtual addresses have nothing to do with VAT and everything to do with customs declarations, or more specifically the lack of. As far as GB is concerned, they're going back to the old Red and Green channels of the 70s and 80s. If you're not carrying the stuff in yourself and picking a channel (remember not to go down the Blue Channel if you're coming back from Liverpool or London) then you have to pay someone to do the customs declaration on your behalf. The retailer might do that, if they're big enough or care enough - but a lot of them won't.

TheDriver

My last few Amazon parcels have the customs labels attached. The few that shipped from non UK warehouses didn't.

gordongekko

CelticRambler wrote: »

Jeeeez. Still missing the point. UK retailers shipping to a virtual address in GB are selling domestically to a customer who's passing themselves off as a GB customer. Their packaging and their documentation is just not set up for export, and definitely not set up for import into the EU. Parcel Motel is not, never was, and never will be a freight forwarder and customs handling agent. AddressPal sort of is, and charges for its service.

The future difficulties for virtual addresses have nothing to do with VAT and everything to do with customs declarations, or more specifically the lack of. As far as GB is concerned, they're going back to the old Red and Green channels of the 70s and 80s. If you're not carrying the stuff in yourself and picking a channel (remember not to go down the Blue Channel if you're coming back from Liverpool or London) then you have to pay someone to do the customs declaration on your behalf. The retailer might do that, if they're big enough or care enough - but a lot of them won't.

The agreement is for an all Ireland agreement so my understanding of it is that the customs will be from UK to ni so if you ship to a virtual address in ni then the UK retailer will need to do the customs declaration. However things will become clearer in the next few days

westyIrl

Can't see much of a future for the NI virtual addresses as useful as they were. Amazon will basically continue as before, shipping wise at least. Just checking there they still exempt the VAT on business purchases, which makes sense. The killer will be these purchases from smaller UK sellers that couldn't be arsed with declarations or waiving UK VAT. (I've come across many over the years while making zero/exempt VAT purchases)

Just purchased something from UK ebay today from seller using Global Shipping Program. Product £45, Postage £9.50, Import Charges: £12.30. It's the items that can't be got on Amazon, or elsewhere in the EU at UK prices, is where this will sting. Oh, and time sensitive orders/shipping are blown out of the water in the short term at least.

gordongekko wrote: »

However things will become clearer dearer in the next few days

Jim

harmless

It would be nice if some small sellers in other EU countries would make it easyier for us to order.
Website in english and reasonably priced shipping options. I know we are a small market but it could be a nice boost to business for them.

McGiver

wozniattack wrote:

Such a shame how some EU companies just refuse to accommodate Ireland.

Ireland is a peripheral small market. Analogical to Finland, for example. That's the reality.

Ireland has been riding on the back of the UK market due to history, language and proximity, but it's been a mixed blessing. We'll see if this changes moving forward.

McGiver

CelticRambler wrote:

Don't know why it's taking people so long to get their heads round the fact that ordering from the UK is now effectively the same as ordering from China. But AliExpress is usually about a quarter of the price of Amazon for the same stuff.

Exactly. Amazon (especially UK) is infested with Chinese vendors with Chinese quality products which may have a better marketing than the same stuff on AliExpress but are at least twice as expensive.

The only disadvantage of AE is the delivery time, items are getting stuck in NL/BE customs for 2 weeks lately.

scamalert

harmless wrote: »

It would be nice if some small sellers in other EU countries would make it easyier for us to order.
Website in english and reasonably priced shipping options. I know we are a small market but it could be a nice boost to business for them.

get a browser add-on, pretty sure theres few out smth like android has where it detects language and prompts if you want in english as amazon.it etc, or ebay.de can be a bit of nightmare when it comes to details of items etc.


as likes of amazon wont feel much of a difference, they operated like this for years between here and US and prob other countries.
ebay seems already has this figured out as well, so this leaves small retailers etc that would of gotten few irish customers, but in grand scheme considering pound exchange rate and costs, a lot of people will shift towards other eu countries, as not sure how well an post is prepared but seeing this year way they handled things might as well start ordering from mainland EU and get in same time frame (-) hassle with items being stuck here while they will be sorted.

Sheep Shagger

CelticRambler wrote: »

In the past year, my "unsatisfactory" orders from Amazon outnumber those from AliExpress by 5 to 1. My one unsatisfactory order with Ali was resolved very quickly, and with a replacement product of superior quality to the one I'd originally ordered. For the most part, if I'm buying relatively small components, I can find the exact same item (going by the pictures and descriptions) at anything up to one tenth of the cost on Ali, but then I can also find conventional stuff cheaper on independent French sites that is either more expensive or just not available on Amazon.

A possible benefit of Brexit for the Irish in Ireland might well be to force consumers to think outside of the Amazon.co.uk box.

(Full disclosure: in the past month, I've ordered from suppliers in the UK, Germany, China and France, including Amazon.co.uk, so have no particular loyalty or dependence on any one supplier. Mind you, I live in continental EU, so don't have worry about weird stuff like needing English instruction manuals or British plugs! :pac: )

Out of all the branded stuff I've bought none has been fake or less quality, across a wide range from clothes to toys to kitchen equipment. I must be lucky compared to a lot of people here.

When I've had to return something (not often) the customer service my amazon has ben second to none, again I must be lucky

ted1

ussjtrunks wrote: »

I don’t understand why it’s a flat 10€ a % of the order makes more sense, 10€ on a 23€ order is mad

Admin costs are the same regardless of the item costs. They still have to pay staff , provide space etc

harmless

Aliexpress are a serious company now. Very few items break copyright laws. They remove counterfeit items if the real company requests it.
I've never had trouble getting a refund with either Amazon or Aliexpress.

tobeme2020

Quackster wrote: »

The likelihood is that UK retailers shipping to AddressPal, Parcel Motel etc will have to charge UK VAT and then you'll have to pay Irish VAT (plus the customs admin fee) on top of that. Easy to see how using these services won't make economic sense.

To an actual address, not parcel motel or addresspal I am talking about

Choosehowevr.

harmless wrote: »

Aliexpress are a serious company now. Very few items break copyright laws. They remove counterfeit items if the real company requests it.
I've never had trouble getting a refund with either Amazon or Aliexpress.

Need a lot of patience for those Chinese sites and their gimmicks and tricks

I usually just stick to eBay and Amazon

Caranica

We don't know precisely what's going to happen. The reality is that Amazon will do what it can to preserve market share. I'm not too worried.

harmless

Caranica wrote: »

We don't know precisely what's going to happen. The reality is that Amazon will do what it can to preserve market share. I'm not too worried.

Yes no worries with Amazon it's the UK sellers that put a flat €20-€30 delivery fee if you're outside the UK and free delivery for UK customers.

If they were not bothered offering a reasonable shipping rate to Ireland (forcing use to use parcel motel) what are the chances they would be willing to fill out a UK VAT exemption form for us?

Caranica

It's an Amazon thread?

harmless

Caranica wrote: »

It's an Amazon thread?

Yes but there is nothing left to say about the Amazon, no problem there.
So the discussion has expanded.

Quackster

CelticRambler wrote: »

Jeeeez. Still missing the point. UK retailers shipping to a virtual address in GB are selling domestically to a customer who's passing themselves off as a GB customer. Their packaging and their documentation is just not set up for export, and definitely not set up for import into the EU. Parcel Motel is not, never was, and never will be a freight forwarder and customs handling agent. AddressPal sort of is, and charges for its service.

The future difficulties for virtual addresses have nothing to do with VAT and everything to do with customs declarations, or more specifically the lack of. As far as GB is concerned, they're going back to the old Red and Green channels of the 70s and 80s. If you're not carrying the stuff in yourself and picking a channel (remember not to go down the Blue Channel if you're coming back from Liverpool or London) then you have to pay someone to do the customs declaration on your behalf. The retailer might do that, if they're big enough or care enough - but a lot of them won't.

Jeeeez, what an attitude! :rolleyes:

My previous post was specifically about how the double VAT issue plus customs admin fee will make these parcel redirection services uneconomic for the end user.

The lack of customs paperwork is a valid, but separate, issue and one that is not entirely insurmountable. AddressPal have managed it for years with their US service and intend to do so too with their UK service from January 1st.

odyssey06

Caranica wrote: »

It's an Amazon thread?

Seems to have expanded in scope into a general post brexit delivery thread
https://touch.boards.ie/thread/2058143769/1/#post115705018

CelticRambler

Quackster wrote: »

Jeeeez, what an attitude! :rolleyes:

My previous post was specifically about how the double VAT issue plus customs admin fee will make these parcel redirection services uneconomic for the end user.

The lack of customs paperwork is a valid, but separate, issue and one that is not entirely insurmountable. AddressPal have managed it for years with their US service and intend to do so too with their UK service from January 1st.

The customs paperwork is the issue. Parcel Motel worked because it used Amazon's free delivery to a domestic (i.e. UK) address, and then only needed to carry parcels from Belfast to Dublin for distribution, no further paperwork needed (Single Market, Freedom of Movement, and all that).

What's torpedoed the whole business model is that the UK is now outside the EU, so it doesn't matter a damn about VAT or customs duties - for the most part, they'll only be a matter of pence/cents of a difference. Even if a customer can arrange free delivery to Belfast, Parcel Motel will have to assume responsibility for ensuring that the documentation for import into the EU is all in order - and they can't do that if the sender has no reason to complete it because they're sending the order to what they think is a domestic (i.e. GB) customer.

AddressPal manage it because they're set up as a customs clearance service, and they charge for it; and the delivery is piggy-backed onto An Post's usual distribution infrastructure. If Parcel Motel want to get into customs clearance/freight forwarding, then I'm sure they'll crunch the numbers and get back in the game - but it's an entirely different business model. It'd be far easier for them to set up a virtual address in another EU state.

Darc19

CelticRambler wrote: »

The customs paperwork is the issue.

What's torpedoed the whole business model is that

AddressPal manage it because they're set up as a customs clearance service, and they charge for it; and the delivery is piggy-backed onto An Post's usual distribution infrastructure. If Parcel Motel want to get into customs clearance/freight forwarding, then I'm sure they'll crunch the numbers and get back in the game - but it's an entirely different business model. It'd be far easier for them to set up a virtual address in another EU state.

Parcel motel is owned by a little company called UPS who are a tiny bit bigger than an post and have plenty of experience in clearance.

But if I remember, that under the trade rule agreement, Northern Ireland cannot be used to circumvent the agreement and be used as a route into the republic.

So in PM case, uk vat would be applied by the seller and pm/ups would have to also add irish vat.