Smoke Pollution in Urban Areas

air

With respect Graces7, you live on an offshore island, you could probably burn plutonium without causing much issues for your neighbours
The thread is about urban areas. These tend to be reasonably well served with natural gas and other alternatives that are as cheap or cheaper than damaging solid fuels per unit of heat delivered.

Graces7

air wrote: »

With respect Graces7, you live on an offshore island, you could probably burn plutonium without causing much issues for your neighbours
The thread is about urban areas. These tend to be reasonably well served with natural gas and other alternatives that are as cheap or cheaper than damaging solid fuels per unit of heat delivered.

I care about you!

And I could heat gas or electric here as we have that choice too so the choice is the same and the cost is the same. ie solid fuel works out much cheaper and we pay as we go.

Unless you are living on a pension you cannot really evaluate and blame.

So the same applies. ie this is not about causing pollution but about cost. It really is at base. Wherever you live. OK? OK!

I have electrically fuelled central heating here but I have never ever turned it on and never will.

plutonium eh? Interesting idea..I will look into that immediately ... Folk used to burn dried cow dung...

2lazytogetup

Anyone know if smoke particles from your neighbour burning wood gets into your house even if windows are closed.

I can't smell the smoke but I read this matter is microscopic so I assume im breathing it in in my sleep.

Chris_5339762

The grants don't work anyways, a grant of €1000 just means the installation cost is €1000 higher and the company installing it pockets the grant. Its rife down here.

highdef

2lazytogetup wrote: »

Anyone know if smoke particles from your neighbour burning wood gets into your house even if windows are closed.

I can't smell the smoke but I read this matter is microscopic so I assume im breathing it in in my sleep.

Well I'm in a rural area and slurry is sometimes spread in the field across the road. Whilst it can completely stink to the point of retching if I exit the house, once the windows are all closed and I am inside, I don't smell a thing inside so I can assume that the microscopic particles don't get inside and I would have to assume that the same could be said for smoke. So you can probably assume that you aren't breathing it in in your sleep.

BattleCorp

highdef wrote: »

Well I'm in a rural area and slurry is sometimes spread in the field across the road. Whilst it can completely stink to the point of retching if I exit the house, once the windows are all closed and I am inside, I don't smell a thing inside so I can assume that the microscopic particles don't get inside and I would have to assume that the same could be said for smoke. So you can probably assume that you aren't breathing it in in your sleep.

If you can smell it, you are breathing it in. Maybe not in a strong enough quantity to do any damage though. Can't say for sure.

ercork

highdef wrote: »

Well I'm in a rural area and slurry is sometimes spread in the field across the road. Whilst it can completely stink to the point of retching if I exit the house, once the windows are all closed and I am inside, I don't smell a thing inside so I can assume that the microscopic particles don't get inside and I would have to assume that the same could be said for smoke. So you can probably assume that you aren't breathing it in in your sleep.

The spreading of slurry on fields causes the release of ammonia into the air. This is a corrosive gas/liquid which can be damaging to the eyes and respiratory system if the levels are high enough. It can also cause damage to nearby plants and ecosystems. It is a different pollutant to particulate matter (PM) which is produced from solid fuel burning.

PM is more like a very fine dust particle. If inhaled it can irritate the lungs and cause breathing difficulties. If the particles are small enough they can pass through the lungs and enter the bloodstream. These very fine particles are associated with increased risk of heart disease, strokes and other issues.

It is important to point out that just because you cannot see or smell smoke does not necessarily mean that these microscopic particles aren't present in the air. All solid fuels produce them, it is just a question of how much. The best way to know how good the air quality is in your area is to have a look at the EPA air quality monitoring data - data is available for many parts of urban Ireland at this stage. With regard to indoor air, certainly you won't get plumes of smoke like if you were standing next to your neighbour's chimney. However, as the indoor air ultimately comes from outside, it is likely to contain similar levels of PM as the ambient outdoor air.

Bottom line, burning solid fuels in an urban area is bad for public health. If you can avoid solid fuel, you should. If you can't, you should use the low-smoke versions - low smoke or "smokeless" coal is better than normal coal; kiln dried wood is better than wet or "green" wood; peat briquettes are better than sod turf, etc.

senordingdong

salonfire wrote: »

Our towns and cities are destroyed with smoke from solid fuel burning stoves, ranges and fireplaces.

On a cold, still night every second chimney has smoke billowing from it that just lingers for the night.

Go outside and you come home stinking of smoke.

The sale of stoves of stoves should be banned and active night-time enforcement with heavy fines for any household allowing smoke escape their chimney.

You're right. It's very bad in Dublin. Where I live I have to jog with a face covering at night because it's so bad.

2lazytogetup

highdef wrote: »

Well I'm in a rural area and slurry is sometimes spread in the field across the road. Whilst it can completely stink to the point of retching if I exit the house, once the windows are all closed and I am inside, I don't smell a thing inside so I can assume that the microscopic particles don't get inside and I would have to assume that the same could be said for smoke. So you can probably assume that you aren't breathing it in in your sleep.

Tks Highdef. I hope the slurry isn't too bad. At least its a field, and not an eyesore or a housing estate.

Theres a new free app from NUIG , models air pollution/quality etc.

StreamAir-AQ

0lddog

Graces7 wrote: »

I care about you!

And I could heat gas or electric here as we have that choice too so the choice is the same and the cost is the same. ie solid fuel works out much cheaper and we pay as we go.

Unless you are living on a pension you cannot really evaluate and blame.

So the same applies. ie this is not about causing pollution but about cost. It really is at base. Wherever you live. OK? OK!

I have electrically fuelled central heating here but I have never ever turned it on and never will.

plutonium eh? Interesting idea..I will look into that immediately ... Folk used to burn dried cow dung...

Bottled gas ... probably the most costly form of energy in the country - delivered off-shore ... cant imagine price/kWhr

Can you choose your own electricity plan ( bonkers.ie etc ) ? If so, then 'leccy might be on

As for pluto....ask Jacob before proceeding. That trendy 'glow in the dark' look may inhibut his nocturnal activities.



As for stoves etc, the last three weeks I'm away from them and am breathing normally with no 'unexplained' sub 90% SpO2 events...

magicbastarder

0lddog wrote: »

As for stoves etc, the last three weeks I'm away from them and am breathing normally with no 'unexplained' sub 90% SpO2 events...

i know i'm banging a drum here, but i strongly suspect that the majority of this issue is open fires and/or people burning **** they're not supposed to be burning.

0lddog

magicbastarder wrote: »

i know i'm banging a drum here, but i strongly suspect that the majority of this issue is open fires and/or people burning **** they're not supposed to be burning.

It may well be the case for you - but not for me :mad:

Stovepipe

he's not talking about you...he's talking about other people burning plastic in their stoves or open fires. Some people throw in their packaging and it often contains plastics, so it will clog up their chimney flue or the contents will not burn fully and will exit via the chimney into the atmosphere. @ercork, why not get your house checked for air leaks by an insulation company. You might need to get your ventilation sorted out.

senordingdong

magicbastarder wrote: »

i know i'm banging a drum here, but i strongly suspect that the majority of this issue is open fires and/or people burning **** they're not supposed to be burning.

You're both right.
In my neighbourhood it's mostly old houses with old people in then. They rarely put bins out on bin day but burning a solid fire, including their rubbish, is the cheapest way to hear their homes.

ercork

Article on poor air quality in Galway:

https://www.advertiser.ie/galway/article/119098/smoky-coal-causing-health-problems-to-families-on-citys-east-side

senordingdong

ercork wrote: »

Article on poor air quality in Galway:

https://www.advertiser.ie/galway/article/119098/smoky-coal-causing-health-problems-to-families-on-citys-east-side

The article reads well but in my experience, local authorities have no teeth to enforce these issues.

Bobblehats

ercork wrote: »

Article on poor air quality in Galway:

https://www.advertiser.ie/galway/article/119098/smoky-coal-causing-health-problems-to-families-on-citys-east-side

That’s the rastafarians

senordingdong

senordingdong wrote: »

The article reads well but in my experience, local authorities have no teeth to enforce these issues.

Exactly
They can't do anything to a home owner who drives out of a restricted area, buys "un-low-smokey" coal and drives back in to burn it.
They should be able to catch people burning waste , by demonstrating they've no waste collection service, but this might be an effort.

senordingdong

MikeOxsgreen wrote: »

Exactly
They can't do anything to a home owner who drives out of a restricted area, buys "un-low-smokey" coal and drives back in to burn it.
They should be able to catch people burning waste , by demonstrating they've no waste collection service, but this might be an effort.

Apparently in the UK they have hand held thermometers and can tell from the heat of your chimney if you are conforming, and can fine you there on the spot.
Here, a stern talking to.

But I want to add that I don't find smokeless coal particularly smokeless

senordingdong

senordingdong wrote: »

Apparently in the UK they have hand held thermometers and can tell from the heat of your chimney if you are conforming, and can fine you there on the spot.
Here, a stern talking to.

But I want to add that I don't find smokeless coal particularly smokeless

A lot of it isn't a smokeless as reported.

https://www.irishtimes.com/news/environment/tax-free-coal-from-north-a-burning-issue-for-smokeless-fuel-1.4342981

senordingdong

MikeOxsgreen wrote: »

A lot of it isn't a smokeless as reported.

But the logic put out by advocates of these stoves is that their fuel is 'smokeless'. As if to say 'we're not living in a scene from Angelas Ashes, so it's grand'. It puts out less smoke, so therefore I'm being... 'less poisoned'?

golfball37

All I have to heat my entire living room is an open fire. The difference between smokey coal and smokeless in terms of heat and value for money is vast. I cannot afford to install central heating either. I'm not gonna let my children freeze because someone from a leafy suburb doesn't like the smell they can't get. If Eamon Ryan wants to pay for my living room to be upgraded to something else he can pay for it, otherwise I'll continue to put my family's welfare and comfort ahead of Facebook groups and their faux outrage.

I live in rural Ireland, far away from anywhere inhabited. The coal vendors here have to take my address when I buy smokey and verify I'm in a designated area. They don't sell if you live in town so the myths that the town( in our case anyway) are full of people burning smokey coal is just more looking to be offended bull.

golfball37

golfball37 wrote: »

All I have to heat my entire living room is an open fire. The difference between smokey coal and smokeless in terms of heat and value for money is vast. I cannot afford to install central heating either. I'm not gonna let my children freeze because someone from a leafy suburb doesn't like the smell they can't get. If Eamon Ryan wants to pay for my living room to be upgraded to something else he can pay for it, otherwise I'll continue to put my family's welfare and comfort ahead of Facebook groups and their faux outrage.

I live in rural Ireland, far away from anywhere inhabited. The coal vendors here have to take my address when I buy smokey and verify I'm in a designated area. They don't sell if you live in town so the myths that the town( in our case anyway) are full of people burning smokey coal is just more looking to be offended bull.

Not sure has anyone said the towns are full of people burning smokey coal, but I'm sure some do.

But if you lived in a city pre ban, you'll know all about smells in leafy suburbs, and I'm sure the faux outraged there are as concerned for their kids premature death and/or poor health from respiratory issues as you are of your kids comfort and health.

You might have no choice in what you burn if the nationwide ban goes through.

The big problem will be how do they police burning turf and harvest windfall trees.

magicbastarder

MikeOxsgreen wrote: »

The big problem will be how do they police burning turf and harvest windfall trees.

windfall trees are an issue if burned green. *far* less so if seasoned. but many people won't listen to that logic.
freshly felled wood is about 50% water. if you try to burn that, most of the heat goes to boiling that water off (and making a mess of your chimney) rather than heating your house.

Stovepipe

golfball37 wrote: »

All I have to heat my entire living room is an open fire. The difference between smokey coal and smokeless in terms of heat and value for money is vast. I cannot afford to install central heating either.
How old is your house? What are you doing to heat the rest of the house ? get some insulation put in or do it yourself.

magicbastarder

magicbastarder wrote: »

windfall trees are an issue if burned green. *far* less so if seasoned. but many people won't listen to that logic.
freshly felled wood is about 50% water. if you try to burn that, most of the heat goes to boiling that water off (and making a mess of your chimney) rather than heating your house.

And actually dangerous to the structure of your chimney, and health from creosote formation

magicbastarder

yeah, the creosote issue was what i was alluding to.

it's kinda nuts how wet fresh wood is. people just don't realise; i do woodturning as a hobby and you quite literally get showered if turning fresh wood.

air

golfball37 wrote: »

I live in rural Ireland, far away from anywhere inhabited.

The thread is about smoke pollution in urban areas.
It's entirely your own decision if you want to put your children's health at risk by using an open fire for heating and you're unlikely to damage anyone's health in your location.

air

air wrote: »

The thread is about smoke pollution in urban areas.
It's entirely your own decision if you want to put your children's health at risk by using an open fire for heating and you're unlikely to damage anyone's health in your location.

May in fact damage their own long term according to recent research