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How much can we borrow?

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Comments

  • #2


    FFG? Who is that?

    It what the SF/IRA types call the current coalition government of the Republic of Ireland because they were told to do so by their bosses in Belfast


  • #2


    He explains how this is not true, how the largest holder American debt are the American people

    The largest holder of our debt is ourselves via the Central Bank. It's never going to come all due at once.

    Ah well that's ok then.

    So this money is owed to ourselves, and it seems the same the World over. We better hope it can be repaid. It would be normal and expected that those owed the money would question it's ability to be repaid. It's been this way since time immemorial. Some are more sceptical than others. It's not unusual.

    Shakespeare wrote: 'Neither a borrower nor a lender be'


  • #2


    Darc19 wrote: »
    It what the SF/IRA types call the current coalition government of the Republic of Ireland because they were told to do so by their bosses in Belfast

    FFG = Fianna Fáil and Greens obviously...


  • #2


    Ah well that's ok then.

    So this money is owed to ourselves, and it seems the same the World over. We better hope it can be repaid. It would be normal and expected that those owed the money would question it's ability to be repaid. It's been this way since time immemorial. Some are more sceptical than others. It's not unusual.

    Shakespeare wrote: 'Neither a borrower nor a lender be'

    Shakespeare was hardly a world renowned economist...

    We are able to finance our debt for essentially free. Our repayments are lower than inflation. Pretty much no countries' national debt is ever going to be "repaid".


  • #2


    Podge_irl wrote: »
    Shakespeare was hardly a world renowned economist...

    We are able to finance our debt for essentially free. Our repayments are lower than inflation. Pretty much no countries' national debt is ever going to be "repaid".

    So those 'investing' in this debt have the reward that they will see negative real returns. The yield on the debt will be below the inflation rate. Seems like a sound investment for the years ahead.


  • #2


    mcsean2163 wrote: »
    I take the Oxford data and analyse for Ireland and list the sources. Maths is math, interpret the results the way you like.

    Are you challenging the objectivity of math?
    So in order to understand your post I need to read your blog and then follow up on its sources.
    If you want to pimp your blog then pay for advertising! At least have the integrity to say to people reading your post that you've analysed the data on your blog so they can decide whether or not to visit it.

    I say this without a mod hat on but, if you wish, I can put that hat on!


  • #2


    mcsean2163 wrote: »
    A simple Google would have shown you multiple results or even reading back in the thread. Here it is again.

    https://www.irishtimes.com/business/economy/ireland-to-have-highest-debt-per-head-in-europe-this-year-1.4503652?mode=amp

    I am curious about this figure, and would prefer to see the raw data, rather than an IT article.

    I am looking for the raw data now.


  • #2


    mcsean2163 wrote: »
    In case anyone wondering about the one billion figure.

    https://www.irishtimes.com/business/economy/the-plan-to-tackle-ireland-s-housing-crisis-has-failed-1.4528364?mode=amp

    This shift from bricks to benefits has been one of most eye-catching features of the Government’s housing policy. Spending on rent subsidies has doubled since 2016 and will be close to €1 billion this year.

    This is frightening, and appears to be very bad policy, on the face of it.

    It is cheaper to build public housing in the cities, rather than lease them.


  • #2


    Geuze wrote: »
    I am curious about this figure, and would prefer to see the raw data, rather than an IT article.

    I am looking for the raw data now.

    This DoF report on the public debt confirms it:

    https://assets.gov.ie/121034/b1597369-c72e-46f7-967b-74113ed45b00.pdf


    Page 4 has several debt metrics.


  • #2


    So in order to understand your post I need to read your blog and then follow up on its sources.
    If you want to pimp your blog then pay for advertising! At least have the integrity to say to people reading your post that you've analysed the data on your blog so they can decide whether or not to visit it.

    I say this without a mod hat on but, if you wish, I can put that hat on!

    I do some stats work, post it online for free and I'm somehow pimping my blog?

    I just checked, there have been 19 views today. I suspect several of those are from my phone. I have 5 followers. Do you think I am somehow earning money from my post? I'd love to know how I could do that because I've literally earned nothing, ever, from blog posts.

    Do you understand the concept of pimping? Sex for money with commission to the pimp.

    If you are a moderator I'd appreciate if you could direct me to the code I have violated because I'm absolutely bewildered by your verbal assault.


  • #2


    Geuze wrote: »
    This DoF report on the public debt confirms it:

    https://assets.gov.ie/121034/b1597369-c72e-46f7-967b-74113ed45b00.pdf


    Page 4 has several debt metrics.

    Great find. If I might paraphrase, we are duffer bunched if there's a hiccup in the economy.


  • #2


    I see the John Oliver video I posted above was removed. It's worth seeking out on YouTube as it's quite relevant to this thread.

    In summary he talks about how the concerns around the accumulation of the national debt, in America, is quite often coming from a place of bad faith. Specifically The Republican Party didn't seem to care about it when Reagan, Bush and Trump all inflated it to pay for large tax cuts for the wealthy. Instead they only show faux concern about it when the likes of Obama or Biden are in office trying to enacting their own policies.

    He mentions how fearmongers like to depict it as something that will all need to be be paid at once to some foreign government (usually depicted as the Chinese) all at the same time. He explains how this is not true, how the largest holder American debt are the American people and that Japan (not China) is actually America's largest creditor.

    Obviously that is all USA specific but a lot of it translates to the Irish context. The largest holder of our debt is ourselves via the Central Bank. It's never going to come all due at once. Quite often as well the people jumping up and down about this, you will find, are not specifically angry about the fact that the money is being spent. What they're angry about is more where, and specifically, who, it is being spent on - the 2 most common bugbears being Social Welfare payments (including PUP in the modern context) and Public Sector wages, pensions and benefits.

    So McSean2163, since you're the one keeping this thread going, may I ask are you either a recipient of PUP or a public sector employee? (In the interest of fairness and transparency I am neither)

    I don't know how this relates to anything I have posted. For me, the most important thing is our citizens and especially our children. Absolutely destroying the public finances is not a legacy I'd like them to inherit and there isn't infinite money.

    The most cost effective means to improve housing, healthcare and opportunity for our society should be selected IMHO. One that doesn't leave the next generation bankrupt.

    Fwiw, I spent 7 months on PUP last year, mainly due to school closures resulting in job loss. I'm not on PUP now and am private sector. It makes me sad to think of that year. Anyway, there you go. No idea why you expect me to be under obligation to share that information. This place, time to log off


  • #2


    mcsean2163 wrote: »
    Fwiw, I spent 7 months on PUP last year, mainly due to school closures resulting in job loss. I'm not on PUP now and am private sector. It makes me sad to think of that year. Anyway, there you go. No idea why you expect me to be under obligation to share that information. This place, time to log off

    Yeah fair enough, it was none of my business and I shouldn't have asked. I spent some time on social welfare myself during the Crash and it's not fun, that's for sure.


  • #2


    Mod: Please do not just dump links here. 4 posts have been removed.


  • #2


    https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2021-04-24/europe-s-most-indebted-countries-aren-t-ready-for-market-reality

    Citigroup Inc. is bracing for a taper of bond buying as early as June, and M&G Investments says it’s time to start shorting peripheral debt.

    We're absolutely screwed. Government has spent money like it's water with no regard for the generation that will have to pay back for spending the most in the EU on covid19 despite having the lowest proportion of our population above 65 i.e. vulnerable. That generation is called our children.

    Remember when they decided to keep all flights open so the virus could circulate until capacity was hit. Finland did not do that. Now they continue to prolong lockdown costing more billions.

    Maybe that was/ is the appropriate action I don't know but as we are now emerging as the most indebted nation per capita in the EU with Biden's 21% tax, can we actually avoid another session with the Troika?


  • #2


    Interesting prediction in the examiner.

    https://www.irishexaminer.com/opinion/columnists/arid-40338710.html?type=amp

    Debt projected to hit €280 billion by 2025. Meanwhile, people are looting in South Africa.



  • #2


    This is just the same old "we all partied" Sunday Independent post-Celtic Tiger guilt-trip.

    In that worldview saying hello to Gavin Friday in Lillie's Bordello while celebrating the sale of your house over €7 pints while 'Beautiful Day' thumped out on the PA was the benchmark of civility. Now the assumption is that half the 4.5 billion population is on South William Street every weekend at €20 a plate and the other half aspires to be there.

    But as we know, there was severe poverty, addiction and social problems then and there's severe poverty, addiction and social problems now.

    In the article you posted yer man compares supports for Covid-affected familes who have lost their jobs to kids suffering sugar withdrawal symptoms at a birthday party.

    Surely there's a standard of analysis better than this old cack.



  • #2


    We've spent the most in Europe as debt percentage. Denmark actually came in with a surplus.

    Title of thread. How much?

    Looks like 280 billion current target. What happens if nobody will lend to us after 280, that's what he's saying. When it's gone it's gone.



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