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Prey aka Predator 5 (Dan Trachtenberg)

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  • Moderators, Entertainment Moderators Posts: 27,815 Mod ✭✭✭✭ pixelburp


    After the garbage fire that was the 2018 film, I'd have hoped they leave this IP to gather dust. But it's yet another Disney property now so why not, let's have another go. I suppose after the disastrous Shane Black version, the series couldn't get any worse?


  • Registered Users Posts: 16,698 ✭✭✭✭ Tony EH


    Just another great 80's movie that they can't let alone.


  • Registered Users Posts: 1,647 ✭✭✭ silliussoddius


    Tony EH wrote: »
    Just another great 80's movie that they can't let alone.

    To be fair, it's the kind of story that lends it self to good scenarios/eras. I thought the old pirate style gun given to Glover's character at the end of the second one was a nice hint to a good story.


  • Registered Users Posts: 56,390 ✭✭✭✭ Agent Coulson


    Predator vs Captain Jack I can just picture the Disney park for that.


  • Moderators, Entertainment Moderators Posts: 27,815 Mod ✭✭✭✭ pixelburp


    To be fair, it's the kind of story that lends it self to good scenarios/eras. I thought the old pirate style gun given to Glover's character at the end of the second one was a nice hint to a good story.

    That's kinda the problem though: the obvious or more daring sequels are never greenlit because those would be seen as riskier prospects than just regurgitating the same beats - as with the 2010 film - or whatever the F the 2018 film was. Four quadrant filmmaking kills risks like that. Same problem with the Terminator franchise, and its own constant churn of the same one idea. Shane Blumhouse don't own these properties.


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  • Registered Users Posts: 16,698 ✭✭✭✭ Tony EH


    To be fair, it's the kind of story that lends it self to good scenarios/eras. I thought the old pirate style gun given to Glover's character at the end of the second one was a nice hint to a good story.
    pixelburp wrote: »
    That's kinda the problem though: the obvious or more daring sequels are never greenlit because those would be seen as riskier prospects than just regurgitating the same beats - as with the 2010 film - or whatever the F the 2018 film was. Four quadrant filmmaking kills risks like that. Same problem with the Terminator franchise, and its own constant churn of the same one idea. Shane Blumhouse don't own these properties.
    On the same page as Pixi here.

    Sure there's potential in the Predator, Alien and Terminator franchises. Quite a bit in fact. But it's buggered time and time again by the wrong people whose only goal is to try desperately to capture that lightening in a bottle that the original films managed to get.

    Sure, there are successes (big and small) 'Aliens' was great and 'Predator 2' wasn't bad. I'll even give a small pass to 'Terminator 2' (but I've never been truly comfortable with that movie - yeah I know, it's blasphemy). But, by and large, there are a litany of failures to look at with regards to the subsequent efforts or genuinely great films. So much so, that it's just better to let the franchise die than to try an keep it on life support.

    Wishful thinking for sure.


  • Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 25,535 Mod ✭✭✭✭ Dades


    Tony EH wrote: »
    Sure there's potential in the Predator, Alien and Terminator franchises. Quite a bit in fact. But it's buggered time and time again by the wrong people whose only goal is to try desperately to capture that lightening in a bottle that the original films managed to get.
    I'm happy to see them attempt new additions to those franchises. Why not - if it doesn't work so be it?

    Yeah, the last Predator movie wasn't a classic but i enjoyed the heck out of it. Alien Covenant was fine, but I loved Prometheus. If every odd one is fun, that's fine by me.


  • Registered Users Posts: 16,698 ✭✭✭✭ Tony EH


    Dades wrote: »
    I'm happy to see them attempt new additions to those franchises. Why not - if it doesn't work so be it?

    Because it's tiresome to see constantly poor rehashes of great films made by people who only want to suck off of a successful title.
    Dades wrote: »
    Yeah, the last Predator movie wasn't a classic but i enjoyed the heck out of it. Alien Covenant was fine, but I loved Prometheus. If every odd one is fun, that's fine by me.

    Scott has basically destroyed everything that was good about the original 'Alien'. 'Prometheus' was one of the dumbest big budget movies I think I've ever seen and the less I say about 'Alien Covenant' the better. I'm happy there probably won't be any more of these things.

    Alien was a fine trilogy. It should have stayed that way. The story's ruined now by the silly crap in 'Prometheus' and 'Alien Covenant'. i won't be watching any more of them.


  • Moderators, Entertainment Moderators Posts: 27,815 Mod ✭✭✭✭ pixelburp


    Dades wrote: »
    I'm happy to see them attempt new additions to those franchises. Why not - if it doesn't work so be it?

    Yeah, the last Predator movie wasn't a classic but i enjoyed the heck out of it. Alien Covenant was fine, but I loved Prometheus. If every odd one is fun, that's fine by me.

    It's the lack of creativity or imagination the sequels have offered: with only Predator 2 trying for something completely different, charismatic with its own crazy energy. Predators and the 2018 film felt far too beholden to riffing or nodding towards that original film - the former way more guilty of that; to be fair I enjoyed the Robert Rodriguez film but often just left me thinking "oh, that's from the '87 film...".

    The Predator franchise isn't particularly deep, but it should offer a huge roadmap of variations available: Predator vs. Pirates; Predator vs. Vikings; Predator vs. WW2 soldiers (this has also been my theory about where the Terminator franchise should go tbh). Sure, it's not going to guarantee a "good movie" but I daresay something that tries again for the insanity of the original Predator sequel would be immediately more watchable than the reshoot-heavy mess of 2018.

    Interestingly, it reads like that might be exactly what we get: sounds like the movie might chart a Comanche woman who finds herself up against the Predator while trying to become a warrior.

    https://discussingfilm.net/2019/12/11/dan-trachtenberg-set-to-direct-skulls-for-fox-disney-exclusive/

    Also sounds like Trachtenberg wanted it to be a surprise...


    https://twitter.com/DannyTRS/status/1329919692157444096


  • Registered Users Posts: 26,494 ✭✭✭✭ CastorTroy


    Wonder what he meant by what he had in store for the reveal


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  • Moderators, Category Moderators, Arts Moderators, Entertainment Moderators, Technology & Internet Moderators Posts: 22,517 CMod ✭✭✭✭ Sad Professor


    Split from off-topic thread.


  • Registered Users Posts: 404 ✭✭ Full_Circle_81


    CastorTroy wrote: »
    Wonder what he meant by what he had in store for the reveal

    Well seeing as how his last movie wasn't even supposed to be anything related to Cloverfield (till Abrams got his hands on it), maybe they were going to sell this new movie as some sort of anonymous horror/action movie in the early trailers and then only towards the end of the marketing reveal it as a predator sequel.....


  • Moderators, Entertainment Moderators Posts: 27,815 Mod ✭✭✭✭ pixelburp


    Well seeing as how his last movie wasn't even supposed to be anything related to Cloverfield (till Abrams got his hands on it), maybe they were going to sell this new movie as some sort of anonymous horror/action movie in the early trailers and then only towards the end of the marketing reveal it as a predator sequel.....

    I think you might be right: it was reported a while ago Trachtenberg was attached to "Skull", which at the time was simply summarised as a story about a Comanche woman heading out to become a warrior, against her tribe's wishes. As you say, the marketing could have leaned into that part, only to reveal at the end she was being hunted by the Predator. Ah well.

    10 Cloverfield Lane was an excellent, tightly wound thriller so maintain some degree of cautious optimism Trachtenberg can do something good here - IF he gets the bandwidth to make the film he wants to. Shane Black is no mug yet we all know how that 2018 film turned out...


  • Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 25,535 Mod ✭✭✭✭ Dades


    Tony EH wrote: »
    Because it's tiresome to see constantly poor rehashes of great films
    Tony EH wrote: »
    i won't be watching any more of them.
    I'm not trying to be smart, but this is my point. If you didn't enjoy any recent rehashes you don't have to watch any more of them.

    Others (maybe less influenced by the originals) have a lower bar and still enjoy the new movies, and it isn't for anyone else to declare they cannot be enjoyed.

    Predator is seen as a classic, but it's a classic dumb action flick. If it spawns lessor dumb action flicks like AvP (love!) so be it.


  • Registered Users Posts: 26,494 ✭✭✭✭ CastorTroy


    Well seeing as how his last movie wasn't even supposed to be anything related to Cloverfield (till Abrams got his hands on it), maybe they were going to sell this new movie as some sort of anonymous horror/action movie in the early trailers and then only towards the end of the marketing reveal it as a predator sequel.....

    Was thinking that. Would still like to see the original reveal he had planned.
    Or he could've not bothered confirming it and just have them drop the trailer as normal with no teaser or announcement beforehand that they like to do so often these days.


  • Registered Users Posts: 16,593 ✭✭✭✭ 2smiggy


    I have not seen the 2018 film for some reason, is it really that bad ??

    I admit i did enjoy 'Predators' with Adrien Brody and Walter Goggins !!


  • Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 25,535 Mod ✭✭✭✭ Dades


    2smiggy wrote: »
    I have not seen the 2018 film for some reason, is it really that bad ??
    As witnessed from this thread, YMMV !

    I loved 10 Cloverfield Lane. Even better on a second viewing.
    Could care less about it being part of some Cloverfield universe. Just a good standalone thriller.


  • Registered Users Posts: 1,824 ✭✭✭ flasher0030


    Didn't know there was a Predators 3 and 4


  • Moderators, Entertainment Moderators Posts: 27,815 Mod ✭✭✭✭ pixelburp


    2smiggy wrote: »
    I have not seen the 2018 film for some reason, is it really that bad ??

    I admit i did enjoy 'Predators' with Adrien Brody and Walter Goggins !!

    The 2018 film is, primarily, a total chaotic mess. A swathe of the film was reshot after studio panic (of the original version, you can see location footage of
    Predators driving around in APCs
    ) and it shows. What we eventually got was muddled and rough as hell; like I said earlier, lots of (idiotic) nods to the original film, while the characters and actual plot were kind terrible. Yes yes, it's Predator it's not meant to be high art, but there's a difference between "entertainingly idiotic" and "ad-hoc, production line idiotic". Terrible characters, while there was none of that typical Shane Black banter to make things click from a dialogue point of view. It felt like a film kinda shat out by a studio desperate for the nostalgic bump.
    Didn't know there was a Predators 3 and 4

    So there's "Predators" from 2010 and directed by Robert Rodriguez; it's not too shabby as time has ticked on, even if it's a blatant retread of the '87 premise (a collection of random "killers" find themselves on an alien planet, hunted by you-know-what). The 2018 sequel, well, I've just ranted about it above :D The 2010 film is definitely worth a watch more than the newer one.


  • Moderators, Category Moderators, Arts Moderators, Computer Games Moderators, Entertainment Moderators Posts: 27,241 CMod ✭✭✭✭ johnny_ultimate


    Rodriquez didn’t actually direct the 2010 film - he produced and they plastered his name all over it :)

    As I’ve said before, the main problem with Predator is that it’s a profoundly limited concept / character. It’s an alien hunter - not much more depth to it than that, and the first film did what it could. Without weird, oddball sequel ideas the series is destined to be fairly meh. There’s just not enough going on to justify a franchise.


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  • Registered Users Posts: 404 ✭✭ Full_Circle_81


    Rodriquez didn’t actually direct the 2010 film - he produced and they plastered his name all over it :)

    As I’ve said before, the main problem with Predator is that it’s a profoundly limited concept / character. It’s an alien hunter - not much more depth to it than that, and the first film did what it could. Without weird, oddball sequel ideas the series is destined to be fairly meh. There’s just not enough going on to justify a franchise.

    I could have sworn he directed it, but no, just produced it. I think he still had a heavy hand in the movie though. I've only seen it once, but felt it was decent and kinda fun.

    I didn't actually watch the most recent one. I had high hopes as it was Black directing his own script this time, but heard it was awful so avoided it. Funny that a director with so many hits did his name (scripts and movies) can still be man-handled so badly by studio execs.

    When I read the blurb there for the latest movie, I immediately imagined something like Apocolypto, but with Predators.

    I'm currently watching Primal on All4 and would love to see them attempt a more or less silent Predator movie (think the last act of the original movie). The challenge would be to still somehow engage the audiences sympathies for the protagonist and get across the plot with no talking (which Primal does brilliantly). Running with the Primal theme, they could even set it in prehistoric days. Predators and dinos. Win win.


  • Registered Users Posts: 16,698 ✭✭✭✭ Tony EH


    Dades wrote: »
    I'm not trying to be smart, but this is my point. If you didn't enjoy any recent rehashes you don't have to watch any more of them.

    You're missing my point though. The story is still wrecked by the poorer efforts. That's not going to change.

    Scott has ruined what made Alien great in the first place, by adding completely unnecessary continuations to a story that was fine in the first place.

    One of the greatest things about Alien is what was unknown. Humanity didn't know what it was dealing with. It was an ancient being, existing entirely separately form mankind, until it stumbled upon it. Now, with 'Prometheus', it's all about us again. We had no idea who the space jockey was. Now we do, and it's shite.

    The story has become lesser, because of dreadful, extra, tired, weight.

    That isn't going to change by not watching any more. The damage has already been done.
    Dades wrote: »
    Predator is seen as a classic, but it's a classic dumb action flick. If it spawns lessor dumb action flicks like AvP (love!) so be it.

    Nobody has ever said otherwise. But it was still a great film, within its own limits.

    The point is that studios will keep lessening the over all product because they will continue to try to reproduce the original formula, each time diluting he original. Instead of having a great film (or even a great couple of films), we end up with a mediocre or even poor "franchise".


  • Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 25,535 Mod ✭✭✭✭ Dades


    Tony EH wrote: »
    The point is that studios will keep lessening the over all product because they will continue to try to reproduce the original formula, each time diluting he original. Instead of having a great film (or even a great couple of films), we end up with a mediocre or even poor "franchise".
    You see I don't subscribe to the idea that making a (subjectively) poor sequel has any effect on the original. The first three Indy movies are not lessened because of Crystal Skulls.

    Movies in a universe don't make up one product. I'm happy watch Aliens or Prometheus on repeat, and not ever watch Covenent again. When the next one comes out I'll give it a go and if I don't like it I'll watch one of those two again. Or maybe even AvP for the craic.

    It's disappointing when they make what you feel is a sh*t film, but no more than that. Maybe the next one will be better.


  • Registered Users Posts: 9,234 ✭✭✭ S.M.B.


    I'm currently watching Primal on All4 and would love to see them attempt a more or less silent Predator movie (think the last act of the original movie). The challenge would be to still somehow engage the audiences sympathies for the protagonist and get across the plot with no talking (which Primal does brilliantly). Running with the Primal theme, they could even set it in prehistoric days. Predators and dinos. Win win.
    I had no idea this was on All4 and was waiting for it to arrive onto one of the big two streaming services. I really need to do a better job at keeping an eye out on what's on BBC and Channel 4 these days.


  • Registered Users Posts: 16,698 ✭✭✭✭ Tony EH


    Dades wrote: »
    You see I don't subscribe to the idea that making a (subjectively) poor sequel has any effect on the original.

    Well then, Dades, we'll just have to disagree on the essential matter.
    Dades wrote: »
    The first three Indy movies are not lessened because of Crystal Skulls.

    The first two aren't lessened by the third either. ;)

    But Indiana Jones is basically separate stories. They're not one continuous flow. You could watch 'Raiders of the Lost Ark' and then watch 'Indiana Jones and the Lost Crusade' and not really miss a beat. You could, in fact, just watch 'Indiana Jones and the Temple of Doom' and leave everything else alone and it wouldn't matter, because there's no continuing story. Nothing that happens in in one film affects the others.

    The Alien story, however, is entirely different. These films are supposed to be a contiguous yarn. What happens in 'Prometheus' is directly linked to what happens in 'Aliens'. It has an effect. So, when part of that story interferes in a bad way with itself (ahem), you have a serious problem with the over all quality of that story. O'Bannon and Shusett's original Lovecraftian idea for the story was ruined by Scott's latest efforts, because he wanted to try and explain things. Things that were much, much, better left as questions and unexplained. Because, frankly, the explanation is nearly always going to be rubbish. The space jockey being a perfect example of that. What was once an intriguing, ancient, fossil found by the crew of the Nostromo is now just some suit that blue men wore.

    With 'Aliens', Cameron gave us a little more insight with his addition. But it still left a lot of mystery. Fincher showed a touch more, but still the alien was largely an unknown factor, which is what made it interesting. This was how it should be done with the series (I won't comment on 'Alien Resurrection', because...well, it should be obvious).

    Scott's new additions have basically made the Xneomorph boring now and he has further gone down that utterly stupid bioweapon route, which makes no sense at all. Plus, as I've already said, Alien is now all about humanity, whereas before, humanity was insignificant. We weren't the centre of the universe.

    As the Ripley trilogy, Alien is excellent. With all the other stuff tacked on, it's now a much poorer story. Sure, one can eliminate stuff, but it's still there. The mystery is gone.

    Look at Star Wars and how piss poor that's become because of dreadful additions to its story. Again, you could leave out certain films, you could leave out entire trilogies. But the damage is done. Never again can you wonder who Darth Vader really was before he was encased in his armour. We all know now he was just a whinny little prick.

    The Terminator story, too, has become an absolute disaster. Whereas the original film is a great, contained, story, it's sequels (I'll except No.2)have repeatedly mauled it so badly, it's reached the point where it should just be shot in the head and buried in the backyard.

    There's always the dilemma surrounding stuff like this. Fans of a certain film (or series of films) will want certain questions answered. But the real question is, should those questions actually be answered? And the answer to that is often no.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 84 ✭✭ LineConsole


    Tony EH wrote: »
    There's always the dilemma surrounding stuff like this. Fans of a certain film (or series of films) will want certain questions answered. But the real question is, should those questions actually be answered? And the answer to that is often no.

    Promethius and the ‘space jockey’ is case in point. In the original Alien we had a glimpse of this mighty fossilised creature that had an elephant like trunk, who apparently died from a (massive) chest burster while sitting in the pilots seat of a spooky semi organic looking space ship, apparently transporting thousands of Xenomorph eggs.

    Something obviously went wrong and the cargo killed the pilot and the ship crashed hundreds, maybe thousands of years ago. Where it sat, waiting for some foolhardy species to discover it, and awaken its sleeping payload of death.

    The idea that somewhere out there in the vast expanse of the universe there were others of its kind was a foreboding prospect. Like some ancient Lovecraftian horror lurking in the deep. Only this time not the ocean, but the cosmos.

    Who were these mysterious and terrifying beings and why were they transporting these eggs?

    And then they went and spoiled it by answering the question. They turned these mysterious elephantine beings into large, grey human-like ancestors of ours. Which totally took the ‘Alien’ element away from them. Those aliens? Well they’re actually us, sort of.

    It’s part of this recent Hollywood custom to make every story and fictional universe a closed loop. They just can’t leave anything to the imagination of the viewer. Everything has to be connected in some convenient way.

    They took all the damn mystery and horror out of it.

    As for predator, if the writers would only open up the graphic novels there is a tonne of good source material to make into a movie. Likewise with the Alien franchise.


  • Registered Users Posts: 16,698 ✭✭✭✭ Tony EH


    I first saw 'Alien' before any of the other films were made, so there was no "lore" as it were and nothing was clear about it. It was just a straight up horror movie set in space and kid me loved it. But I never took it as the space jockey transporting the eggs. There was nothing in the film to explicitly say that. I always just reckoned that the space jockey people (crash) landed on a planet which was the Alien's homeworld (whatever it was called) and discovered the Xenomorph themselves, which in turn led to their own disaster and they managed to set up a warning beacon to steer others away, which the company somehow got wind of. That fossilised relic was thousands, maybe even millions, of years old and showed that mankind wasn't the be all end all in the galaxy. It acted as a foreshadowing of things to come for the Nostromo crew. But it was independent of us, which was interesting.

    Now, 'Prometheus' and 'Alien Covenant' have made the series focus on man. We're actually (indirectly) responsible for the alien, and that has made it boring. It's killed any mystery that the series had stone dead.

    Never read any of the Predator comics and never will really. But there could be good stuff to mine in them. However, that film is simply a result of an accident. If the producers had made the film they wanted it would have been shite. A laughable 80's B movie, panned even worse that the actual film was. But they got lucky with Stan Winston who managed to turn out something great for the film makers to work with and it struck a chord with audiences in 1987.

    The problem is, you can't replicate happy accidents, which is what studios have been trying to do with this thing and failing. But there's a chance of a quick buck to be made out of milking a good thing, so they'll keep churning out the crap until everyone rejects it.


  • Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators Posts: 17,930 Mod ✭✭✭✭ CatFromHue



    As for predator, if the writers would only open up the graphic novels there is a tonne of good source material to make into a movie. Likewise with the Alien franchise.

    I've never been a fan of the first Predator film but remember reading some of the graphic novels when I was younger and loving them.

    There's loads of great ideas and stories in them.

    I read some of the Alien novels and they were great too.

    Actually now that I think about it some of the Batman story lines in the graphic novels were excellent as well.


  • Registered Users Posts: 7,029 ✭✭✭ Hande hoche!


    The 2018 was fairly dire, the most memorable part of it for me was blink and you miss it deaths of main characters.

    Predator 2 was quite decent compared to the later offerings. Will watch it again one of these days.


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  • Registered Users Posts: 9,234 ✭✭✭ S.M.B.


    I have not watched a new Alien or Predator movie since they appeared on screen together ~15 years ago.

    Will give this a chance if I hear it stands on it's own two legs. Hoping Trachtenberg can do better than recent attempts in both franchises.


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