Can you change a will ?

Sardonicat

qwerty13 wrote: »

There is NO reason for hitting her sibling. Ever.

I know that. I'm not in any way excusing it. I was responding to the poster who thought the sister may have justifiable reasons for abandoning her duty of care to her father to others while neglecting to acknowledge that she has been physically abusive to her sibling.I don't think there are any justifiable reasons for any of her behaviour.

StereoSound

qwerty13 wrote: »

There is NO reason for hitting her sibling. Ever.

My sister hit me twice because she was furious that we were asking her to equally care for Dad. She felt we were forcing her against her will to do this. She will say anything and do anything to get out of any responsibility. She just wanted us (particularly me) to just give up our lives and be his maid until the day he dies. She honestly expected me to do this without battering an eye lid, then I put my foot down and claimed we should all have equal responsibility for his care which resulted in me being struck twice in a big burst of anger from her. That is exactly how it happened.

eviltwin

Sardonicat wrote: »

I know that. I'm not in any way excusing it. I was responding to the poster who thought the sister may have justifiable reasons for abandoning her duty of care to her father to others while neglecting to acknowledge that she has been physically abusive to her sibling.I don't think there are any justifiable reasons for any of her behaviour.

Hang on I never once said physical violence was ok. I’m talking about the care of the father. I dont believe it’s selfish to opt out of caring for a man who probably needs professional help at this stage. Just because the OP has decided to put his life on hold doesn’t mean the rest of the family should.

StereoSound

StereoSound wrote: »

I would agree that it would be easier for our Dad to get professional care. In my previous thread I did mention that we are waiting for ward of court to be put into place. Since Dad has a mental illness we wouldn't have any direct access to our mums money that she left to him. The plan is that when ward of court comes through we want to pay a carer from our mothers money that she left to Dad to come into the house during the daytime so we can all go back to work as normal.

At the moment me and my sister are paying the bills, food and other expenses in the house while we both maintain our own private homes to. Living on shoe strings doing this on part time working hours. Ward of court is expected to come through February or March so we have to keep this up until then.

Is your father not eligible for a pension in his own right, an OAP or Widowers' pension?

StereoSound

Deleted User wrote: »

Is your father not eligible for a pension in his own right, an OAP or Widowers' pension?

He has a pension but we don't have access to it, his pension will go to the ward of court. My mum had POA so she could access his weekly pension at the time. Because he is declared non compos mentis, it has made everything extremely complicated in terms of access to money from the will. There is nothing we can do until Dad is made a ward of court, we then have to ask permission from the court for access to the money that is needed to care for him and anything else he may need.

StereoSound

StereoSound wrote: »

He has a pension but we don't have access to it, his pension will go to the ward of court. My mum had POA so she could access his weekly pension at the time. Because he is declared non compos mentis, it has made everything extremely complicated in terms of access to money from the will. There is nothing we can do until Dad is made a ward of court, we then have to ask permission from the court for access to the money that is needed to care for him and anything else he may need.

I understand. In my mother's case, I was her Agent so I could access her pension.

Not being able to be an Agent for your father's pension must make everything much more difficult.

TheadoreT

It's hard to assess any of this without knowing the bigger picture. Do any of you have other dependants like children, do you all have mortgages that need keeping up with? We know your sister is already up to her neck in it with college and work. I'm sure some of you arent as busy as others.

Also while violence is never condoned I think anyone who has brothers and sisters knows that you often fought like cats and dogs. I dont think it's too uncommon for an eldest to thump a brother in the arm or whatever if they're stepping out of line too much. It's very different to striking a stranger or friend or partner imo.

Sardonicat

eviltwin wrote: »

Hang on I never once said physical violence was ok. I’m talking about the care of the father. I dont believe it’s selfish to opt out of caring for a man who probably needs professional help at this stage. Just because the OP has decided to put his life on hold doesn’t mean the rest of the family should.

The sibling in question also expected OP to put their life on hold and won't do anything to contribute to her father's care. And saying that just cos someone 'decides' to do it doesn't mean other people should is just more self-centered, me, me, me thinking. 'Ah, you're a decent person who's prepared to make sacrifices. I'm not, so tough.' If everyone did their fair share, no-one would have to put their life on hold. Theres three of them.

pwurple

I'm one of those who has seen this tear both my parents siblings apart, and some of my friend's families as well.

End of life is incredibly difficult to deal with. Expectations here are very different. The fact is, becoming a full time carer for a parent is an unpaid job. You don't get compensated in a will or any other way. It's punishing physically and mentally. And now you've added financial stress to this too

Myself and siblings have already discussed this with ourselves, and with our parents. when / if this happens, the entirety of their savings / estate can be used in caring for them, at home ideally, until that becomes unfeasible. None of us are to become de-facto carers, this is their wish. If that means there is nothing left in a will and we need to divide the cost of funerals between us, then so be it. We've been brought up and educated by them to a level we are self-sufficient at this stage. No windfall is expected or needed.


My advice would be to step back from your father's care as soon as you can, to some extent.

eviltwin

Sardonicat wrote: »

The sibling in question also expected OP to put their life on hold and won't do anything to contribute to her father's care. And saying that just cos someone 'decides' to do it doesn't mean other people should is just more self-centered, me, me, me thinking. 'Ah, you're a decent person who's prepared to make sacrifices. I'm not, so tough.' If everyone did their fair share, no-one would have to put their life on hold. Theres three of them.

And that’s completely out of order but I didn’t see that bit in the original OP. I agree someone who won’t help doesn’t get to dictate what others do. My impression was the OP had made his own decision and asked his sister and she declined

My overall opinion hasn’t changed though. I admire the OP fighting to keep his dad at home but I think there comes a time when you have to hand it over to the professionals. That’s what an inheritance should be for. It’s not fair to the OP to run himself ragged and it’s not fair on his dad either.

The sister who won’t help isn’t obligated too and if she has her own commitments they have to take priority. That isn’t selfishness, it’s being responsible. Again I’d love to hear her side. Family dynamics can be a strange one and she might not have the same good will towards her dad as the OP does. I know in my family some children adore our parent and others don’t. I suspect that’s the way in many families.

spaceHopper

You need to talk to a solicitor an get the POA or Ward of Court move along.

In the meantime ask the community nurse to put a care plan in place even if he only gets one hours it's a start.
Has he a medical card or long term illness card. Get the one if he doesn't.
Keep a log of all expenses food medicine.... so that you can reclaim it from the court or when the time comes your Dad's estate. That will lessen the impact of you expense and take some money back from your sister.
Is one of you getting a carers allowance or tax break. One of both of you could be entitled to it.

If you cut your sister out of the will, you'll spend a fortune legal costs even if you win you lose.

Gregor Samsa

spaceHopper wrote: »

You need to talk to a solicitor an get the POA or Ward of Court move along.

Just FYI, you can’t get Power Of Attorney if the person in question isn’t of sound mind. In fact, you have to apply for POA yourself - you can’t get it for someone else. POA is something people who are fit and healthy should put in place to plan for when they are not.

You can apply for Ward Of Court for someone who is not of sound mind. But my personal experience is that it takes a long time and is a difficult process. We had a solicitor working on it for a year regarding my dad. In the end he died before we got it. I’m not sure if that solicitor was just incompetent of if that is standard (the big delay was with medical and mental assessments), but he didn’t charge us in the end.

But remember that even with WOC, you won’t be able to change their will - you’ll just be able to manage their assets and needs on their behalf.

Gregor Samsa

Gregor Samsa wrote: »

Just FYI, you can’t get Power Of Attorney if the person in question isn’t of sound mind. In fact, you have to apply for POA yourself - you can’t get it for someone else. POA is something people who are fit and healthy should put in place to plan for when they are not.

You can apply for Ward Of Court for someone who is not of sound mind. But my personal experience is that it takes a long time and is a difficult process. We had a solicitor working on it for a year regarding my dad. In the end he died before we got it. I’m not sure if that solicitor was just incompetent of if that is standard (the big delay was with medical and mental assessments), but he didn’t charge us in the end.

But remember that even with WOC, you won’t be able to change their will - you’ll just be able to manage their assets and needs on their behalf.

As far as I recall, you're correct. Also, if I remember correctly a POA is no longer valid once the person it applies to is declared not of sound mind or becomes mentally incapacitated (eg. coma or such like).

For that what you need is Enduring Power of Attorney - which has to be arranged beforehand, and it only comes into play when someone becomes not of sound mind or mentally incapacitated. AFAIK it costs around €500 to apply.

HildaOgdenx

Keep the pressure on, OP in relation to getting things sorted so that your dad's money can be accessed in relation to his care.

Apologies, if I'm mixing up your threads with another OPs, but I think you said he is very difficult, so I suppose be prepared for that fact that an outside carer might be hard to find, and retain, even when the funds to pay them are sorted.

All the best.

TheadoreT

TheadoreT wrote: »

Also while violence is never condoned I think anyone who has brothers and sisters knows that you often fought like cats and dogs. I dont think it's too uncommon for an eldest to thump a brother in the arm or whatever if they're stepping out of line too much. It's very different to striking a stranger or friend or partner imo.

The sister is 42. What are you talking about. These aren’t kids

Shelli2

I fully commend you caring for your father, and I myself will be in this position with my mother when the times comes.

Looking after a relative does not entitle you to a bigger share of the estate, and if your motive for doing so is to profit from the estate then id' question if it's the correct choice for your father. (which I'm not for one moment suggesting it is)

While it may seem unfair - your father decided to split his legacy equally between his children and that choice should be respected, it's not your place to decide that you should get more or your sister should get less.

Edit to add :
The fairtrade deal would be of huge benefit to you in this situation - you should look into it - a portion of the house equity would be used to pay for the cost of a home for your father - in the event of his passing and the sale of the house the agreed portion is paid to the government and the rest is split as per the instructions in the will.
Your sister would have no say in this, and the care home would be paid for equally out of the inheritance.

tara73

OP, at this stage and your last thread I bluntly have to say I think it's all about the money for you. About not losing the inheritance. It wasn't as visible in the last thread but this second one shows your own true colours in this from my point of view.

I's not about the best decision for your dad, it's about the money he will pass on to you (and your siblings) and therefore keeping most of it, means no expensive nursing home instead sharing the care or looking for an (cheap carer from whereever I guess) in home carer.

It would be really good to hear the other side of the coin, your sister, in this case. Yes, she might be that horrible b*** as you present her here, but she can have her own view on things and decisons in this, as you have yours. What makes you think your view on things and plans are the only right ones here and she needs to follow suit?

She doesn't want to care for her father, meaning giving up very much of her live, her mental health or whatever her reasons are. her preference is to find a nursing home for him, and from what you post about the situation with your father it seems as the most sensible decision as many other posters have also pointed out.

Dee01

No one should be forced to care for an elderly parent or relative. It's a personal choice and a huge undertaking both mentally and physically.

You have decided to provide that care to your dad. You have also decided to reduce your hours in work and compromise your own family life. Your sister has decided not to provide personal care for your dad and she will call to your dad when she can (although by the sounds of the reception she gets, that may well stop).

Your care of your dad is not in any way linked to his will. It's that simple. Your parents wanted their estate split 3 ways. That's what should happen. I haven't read your other threads, so I don't know where your dad is best off, but he has a house that can be used to pay for his care if needed.

The only way your sister is wrong in this situation is because she assaulted you.

the hedgeman

It looks like the house will be willed to the 3 daughters equally on the assumption by the parents/parent that their end of life care burdens would hopefully be shared by the 3 daughters which obviously is not happening but the care duties still have to provided and is not shared equally,that's bound to cause a grievance as 2 are fulfilling their parents/parent wishes.

qwerty13

Of course it’s bound to cause a grievance or resentment - but that doesn’t give the OP the right to change the Will, which was the original question.

I’m afraid it’s either carry out whatever practical arrangements the OP can cope with, or (what I think should be done) spend the parents assets on caring for the father. If he cannot cope on his own, and especially if he is prone to lashing out, I can’t see a carer willing to stay. So a specialised care home needs to at the very least be considered.

To me, the OP and one sister are operating in la-la land about practicalities, and getting ( very understandably) stressed and angry because of that. Have you costed the price of a private carer v a care home OP? I think you’ll be shocked at both costs, but especially how much it would cost if say a private carer stayed for a week.

Big Bag of Chips

Do you need inheritance, OP? Are you depending on it to allow you to clear debts?
(if you don't want your sister inheriting an equal share, then the most sensible thing to do would be to use your dad's money - it is HIS money, after all - to provide the care he needs.)

Difficult decisions need to be made by families all the time. And maybe one difficult decision you need to make is whether or not your dad would be better cared for, and happier, in a care home. I know of 2 very independent elderly neighbours near me who in the last few years had to go into residential care homes. These people had family, a lot of family. But family who admitted they could not care for the person properly in the way that was needed.

We all wondered how they would cope living in a care home after all these years. In both cases, the people have thrived. Are so happy where they are and are comfortable.

You have no right to dictate to your sister that she should make the same choices that you have. You have no right to tell her how she should spend her money, or her time. Yes - it would be lovely if she could help out more, but maybe she can see that this is just kicking the can down the road, and in the meantime everyone in the house is getting burnt out.

If your dad needs 24 hour care, then that is something that I have rarely seen any family be able to manage themselves. I think you and your other sister need to do some research. Speak to your dad's GP. Speak to the local PHN. Find out what you need to find out. Your sister cannot dictate to you that your dad not be put in a home, especially if she is no position to offer help. You don't need her permission. If she objects, then she can sign up to equal share of the rota. If she doesn't then you have to go with what is best for everyone, your dad, and yourselves.

But expecting an unreasonable person to be reasonable is only going to cause you stress on top of the stress you are already feeling.

tara73

qwerty13 wrote: »

I’m afraid it’s either carry out whatever practical arrangements the OP can cope with, or (what I think should be done) spend the parents assets on caring for the father. If he cannot cope on his own, and especially if he is prone to lashing out, I can’t see a carer willing to stay. So a specialised care home needs to at the very least be considered.

that's what I was thinking too, so the idea getting an in home carer in is kind of la-la-thinking too unless they feel fine in searching every few month or even weeks for a new in home carer.

OP also wrote the in home carer should be only there at day time, who's there at night? I guess he/she wants to split it between the 3 of them, means everybody has to stay 2-3 nights a week there. mental.

I understand it's a tricky and difficult situation, but it doesn't help finding a solution in focussing on the c*nt (words from the OP in one of his/her posts!) of a sister who doesn't help and putting the energy in changing the will. this seems to be the main thing for the OP, but it should be to find the best solution for the father, hence my impression it's not at all primarily about the wellbeing of the father.

yes, he or the mother, can't remember who, said he shouldn't go into a nursing home. yes, we all have wishes, be it as a child, with 30, 50, and even with 80 years old we still have wishes. but because we reached a certain age doesn't mean all wishes can come true.

we don't live in the traditional set up anymore, husband works, wife is there for the household and children and later for the care of the elderly parents. most people, like the sister, has to support herself financially, even most families can't afford to care for an elderly parent anymore as both have to get money in to pay the mortgage etc.
that's life, things change in general. For many, be it the elderly parents and the children, it's not nice to put their parents in a nursing home, but that's a whole debate in it's own.

If the sister really is against putting him in a nursing home, (somehow I misread that in my last post), that's really bad, what other solution is there then. but I think you don't need her permission for that, as it is already stated, the money which is there should be used for his care.

ILoveYourVibes

StereoSound wrote: »

He has a pension but we don't have access to it, his pension will go to the ward of court. My mum had POA so she could access his weekly pension at the time. Because he is declared non compos mentis, it has made everything extremely complicated in terms of access to money from the will. There is nothing we can do until Dad is made a ward of court, we then have to ask permission from the court for access to the money that is needed to care for him and anything else he may need.

When this happens i would use it to try and get him into a care home.

To be honest there will be a time when its actually NOT best for him to be cared for by lay people.

Don't feel that this is abandoning him. There are several key skills in looking after the elderly that only staff in a home understand properly.

You won't be able to look after yourself and him. And if you don't look after yourself you can't look after him.

Hang in there op. x

Pawwed Rig

OP
I think you need to consider professional care at this point. It is hugely expensive but the fair deal scheme is in place that can help with the costs. Also once in care you can rent out your fathers house which will give a reasonable lump sum each year. You could probably do this without paying any tax on the rental income.
Get a solicitor to sort out access to his pensions and accounts.

Your sister has things she needs to do to better her own life. She is not (nor should she be) obliged to help out. Nor is she obliged to financially contribute. You need to get over that part of it.
To answer your original question - No it is very unlikely you will be able to change the will and even if you could it is a very messy process.
I have been working on and of on a probate case for more than 2 years. It is a waste of everyone's time and money.

ILoveYourVibes

Pawwed Rig wrote: »

OP
I think you need to consider professional care at this point. It is hugely expensive but the fair deal scheme is in place that can help with the costs. Also once in care you can rent out your fathers house which will give a reasonable lump sum each year. You could probably do this without paying any tax on the rental income.
Get a solicitor to sort out access to his pensions and accounts.

Your sister has things she needs to do to better her own life. She is not (nor should she be) obliged to help out. Nor is she obliged to financially contribute. You need to get over that part of it.
To answer your original question - No it is very unlikely you will be able to change the will and even if you could it is a very messy process.
I have been working on and of on a probate case for more than 2 years. It is a waste of everyone's time and money.

She isn't legally obliged ..morally tho ..is another thing.

I would bring it up with her ..and make it known that is your position ..that she is equally morally obliged in everything whether he stays home or goes into care.

I don't expect her to do anything. But i would tell her that i felt she was shirking her responsibilities.

Its not like she is living in another country or anything.

However even if she does nothing ...op doesn't have the right to change the will etc.

I do think tho its best for everyone if the dad goes into care ..best for him too. He will get better professional care there.

Shelli2

Pawwed Rig wrote: »

OP
I think you need to consider professional care at this point. It is hugely expensive but the fair deal scheme is in place that can help with the costs. Also once in care you can rent out your fathers house which will give a reasonable lump sum each year. You could probably do this without paying any tax on the rental income.
Get a solicitor to sort out access to his pensions and accounts.

Your sister has things she needs to do to better her own life. She is not (nor should she be) obliged to help out. Nor is she obliged to financially contribute. You need to get over that part of it.
To answer your original question - No it is very unlikely you will be able to change the will and even if you could it is a very messy process.
I have been working on and of on a probate case for more than 2 years. It is a waste of everyone's time and money.

You can't rent a house that is being used as equity for the fairdeal.
However, a family member can live in it in a caretaker capacity. The rules are very strict on this.

ILoveYourVibes

ILoveYourVibes wrote: »

She isn't legally obliged ..morally tho ..is another thing.

I would bring it up with her ..and make it known that is your position ..that she is equally morally obliged in everything whether he stays home or goes into care.

I don't expect her to do anything. But i would tell her that i felt she was shirking her responsibilities.

Its not like she is living in another country or anything.

However even if she does nothing ...op doesn't have the right to change the will etc.

I do think tho its best for everyone if the dad goes into care ..best for him too. He will get better professional care there.

It is never a child's responsibility to become their parent's carer in old age.

It is something they may choose to do voluntarily, but it is not their responsibility.

It is every adult's responsibility to make provision for their own care in their old age.

ILoveYourVibes

Deleted User wrote: »

It is never a child's responsibility to become their parent's carer in old age.

It is something they may choose to do voluntarily, but it is not their responsibility.

It is every adult's responsibility to make provision for their own care in their old age.

I can see your point.

However I am ...what is the word ...torn about it.

I wouldn't judge though. I can see both sides.

Its probably one of those things for which there is no right answer.

GarIT

ILoveYourVibes wrote: »

I can see your point.

However I am ...what is the word ...torn about it.

I wouldn't judge though. I can see both sides.

Its probably one of those things for which there is no right answer.

OP said their sister has said she is having difficulties with her mental health and that she feels like OP is trying to force her against her will to do it. OP has dismissed both as nonsense when in reality both should be taken seriously.

ILoveYourVibes

GarIT wrote: »

OP said their sister has said she is having difficulties with her mental health and that she feels like OP is trying to force her against her will to do it. OP has dismissed both as nonsense when in reality both should be taken seriously.

She also said her sister attacked her violently. I am less inclined to give credit to the sister on this basis.

Yes perhaps her mental health is ...difficult. But she strikes me as an unreasonable and difficult person.

Forcing someone into something ..is never a good idea.

There does seem to be an unhealthy family dynamic here.


TBH tho OP ...someone who is violently assaulting their sister in adulthood SHOULD NOT be in charge of looking after an elderly person ...not in any way for any duration of time.

It would inevitably end up in abuse ...