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Can you change a will ?

  • 11-11-2020 5:36pm
    #1
    Registered Users Posts: 2,155 ✭✭✭


    Mum died a few months back and we are left with our dad who is mentally ill to take care of him. I have two sisters, one of them doesn't help at all while me and my other sister have to cut down our jobs to part time so we can look after Dad. Eldest sister refuses to take any time off work to help us, she comes up when its convenient for her. She started college to and gave me and my other sister the middle finger, it's effected us a lot and we are under massive stress keeping Dad in the family home and away from nursing home care. The house was left to me and my sisters...

    What I want to know is can we have our eldest sister struck off the will somehow so she gets nothing ? She does nothing so she should get nothing. As it stands she is entitled to a 1/3 of the family home, we don't feel she deserves this considering Dad needs 24/7 care and she doesn't contribute. Her excuse is she cannot afford to take time off work, her mental health is suffering blah blah. It's frightfully unfair for us to be doing everything and suffering financially while she skips along with no dip in her income and attends college at the same uninterrupted. She is a 42 year old woman and a gas lighter at the highest degree.

    Thanks for any info.


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Comments

  • Registered Users Posts: 6,224 ✭✭✭SouthWesterly


    Your dad made his will I assume when he was of sound mind. You can't go changing it just because I don't like it.

    It can be challenged in court after his death but the costs are huge and theres a chance of the only ones winning are the barristers.


  • Registered Users Posts: 1,966 ✭✭✭Smee_Again


    Short answer is not without spending an awful lot of money and even then it’s hugely unlikely to be possible unless your sister coerced your mother or your mother was not of sound mind when making the will.


  • Registered Users Posts: 3,202 ✭✭✭Tork


    The only winners from this would be the lawyers. TV series have been made about families fighting over disputed wills and decimating the family silver. I can understand why you are so angry and feel this way but you have got to step back from this and think objectively. You want your sister cut out of the will because you are pissed off at her. I get it - you and your other sister have made great personal sacrifices and you see this other sister swanning around without a care in the world. You could argue that the pair of you should get preferential treatment but those were not your father's wishes when he made that will. For all you know, he might still want to split the family home evenly if he was of sound mind. Galling as is, swallow the bitter pill and don't get lawyers involved. All it will do is cost you a lot of money, it will make you even more bitter than you are now and you probably won't win anyway.

    I remember your previous thread about your father and how you were adamant you were never going to let him go into a nursing home. Please don't rule that out as an option further down the line. As many people said to you at the time, nursing homes now aren't like the ones your mother spoke badly about. Your father is going to deteriorate and the time may come where he is better cared for in a home. You and your sister are already working part time. Be careful that the stresses of being a carer, your anger at your sister and your determination to keep your father at home come what may don't lead you to make foolhardy choices.


  • Registered Users Posts: 976 ✭✭✭Pinoy adventure


    You need too sit down will all your siblings and a calander and work out who does which days.
    The caring should be shared between all children.
    If 1 cannot help in any way it's unfair on the others,well then you need too look at either home help or a nursing home.

    Your parent made there will and put all children equal.the care of your parent should be equal also,well unless the 1 who is unwilling too help forfeit there share of the estate too cover care costs of your parent.


  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    You can call all the family meetings and make up all the rotas you like but it won't matter if someone doesn't want to help. The bottom line is, you cannot force someone to take care of an elderly parent, and there is no legal obligation on any child to do so.

    I fully get where you're coming from, one of my brothers and I took care of my mother for years before she eventually had to go into a nursing home, while one brother never lifted a finger to help.

    You're going to have to let it go, because in the end, getting bitter about your uncaring sibling is only going to hurt you, and they still won't care and go on with their life while you're left seething.

    (eta) To answer your question, if your parent is not of sound mind, then as far as I know there is nothing you can do to change their Will.


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  • Registered Users Posts: 17,495 ✭✭✭✭eviltwin


    Maybe nursing home care wouldn’t be such a bad idea. I admire you and your sister doing what you can but you can’t put your own lives on hold either. Maybe your sister is making herself the priority for legitimate reasons.


  • Registered Users Posts: 2,155 ✭✭✭StereoSound


    We don't talk to my older sister at all anymore, it is very tense when she comes up to the house. She messes the house up on purpose to annoy us, she has become very immature and deliberating leaving heating system on in house and throwing things around the house for us to clean up as some sort of revenge tactic. She struck me twice in the previous weeks in anger when we tried to get her to take care of Dad so we could work. We have pretty much washed our hands of her at this stage and accepted that she isn't ever going to do anything.

    I suspected a will change would be unrealistic. It's just infuriating how she refuses point blank to do anything and forcing the rest of us to take a 50% pay cut from our jobs while she fcks off living her life as normal. Genuine Cnt...


  • Registered Users Posts: 3,202 ✭✭✭Tork


    I'm so sorry you're going through this. Your sister is quite a piece of work and she is just waiting for your father to die so she can swoop in and claim her share of the estate. I assume she is unwilling to pay you or your sister any more to cover your financial losses? Who's paying the heating bills in the house?

    Whatever you and your sister choose to do next, DO NOT give up your jobs. One third of your parents' estate isn't going to go too far once your dad has passed. Also, as I have already alluded to, please don't rule out respite care or nursing homes. Have you spoken to the local public health nurse, for example. You have a possibly misguided determination to keep your father out of a home at all costs. At the moment I don't blame you, what with Covid raging in some places again. But please, do not rule it out as a future option. Your horrible sister will rage at the idea because it will eat into her inheritance but let her. If putting your father into a home down the line is the right thing for him, do it. She will happily sit by and let you both go on the dole if that means getting her windfall.


  • Registered Users Posts: 12,378 ✭✭✭✭Sardonicat


    Change the locks to the house. If she ever lifts a finger against you again, press charges


  • Registered Users Posts: 2,155 ✭✭✭StereoSound


    Tork wrote: »
    I'm so sorry you're going through this. Your sister is quite a piece of work and she is just waiting for your father to die so she can swoop in and claim her share of the estate. I assume she is unwilling to pay you or your sister any more to cover your financial losses? Who's paying the heating bills in the house?

    Whatever you and your sister choose to do next, DO NOT give up your jobs. One third of your parents' estate isn't going to go too far once your dad has passed. Also, as I have already alluded to, please don't rule out respite care or nursing homes. Have you spoken to the local public health nurse, for example. You have a possibly misguided determination to keep your father out of a home at all costs. At the moment I don't blame you, what with Covid raging in some places again. But please, do not rule it out as a future option. Your horrible sister will rage at the idea because it will eat into her inheritance but let her. If putting your father into a home down the line is the right thing for him, do it. She will happily sit by and let you both go on the dole if that means getting her windfall.

    Sister couldn't give a rats back side if we all ended up on the dole or not... Currently me and my younger sister are paying the bills. My older sister did contribute before but now she refuses on the grounds she cannot afford to. However she recently paid her college fees..... See the problem ? She chose to do this and stop paying the bills.... She is only thinking about her own well being, happy to put more financial stress on the rest of us..

    Dad actually had a meeting with the public health nurse and they suggested he attends respite care but we know he won't attend , we tried him before over the years when Mum was alive and there was chaos with him over it. He is a very difficult man and refuses to do anything.


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  • Registered Users Posts: 16,503 ✭✭✭✭yabadabado


    OP you need to report your sister to the guards for the assault.

    After that id wash my hands of her,no point engaging when she doesnt want to help.Its her loss in the long run when she has burned her bridges with her family.


  • Registered Users Posts: 12,378 ✭✭✭✭Sardonicat


    eviltwin wrote: »
    Maybe nursing home care wouldn’t be such a bad idea. I admire you and your sister doing what you can but you can’t put your own lives on hold either. Maybe your sister is making herself the priority for legitimate reasons.

    Making yourself a priority while abandoning others to sacrifice everything is disgustingly selfish behaviour. Some people just dont give a sh1t about anyone else and find various ways to excuse it to themselves and everyone else.


  • Registered Users Posts: 1,966 ✭✭✭Smee_Again


    To play devil’s advocate it’s not your sister’s responsibility to pay bills on a house she doesn’t live in, nor is she obliged to give up her education to look after your dad. It’d be great if she could do both but she still has to live her life.


  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    Op, how would your sister feel if you told her that as she won't help you have decided to put your father in a home which will be paid for from the assets (including house)?

    Btw, regardless of the family politics, many people wouldn't be able to care for their father in old age so fair play.


  • Registered Users Posts: 166,026 ✭✭✭✭LegacyUser


    Tork wrote: »
    I'm so sorry you're going through this. Your sister is quite a piece of work and she is just waiting for your father to die so she can swoop in and claim her share of the estate. I assume she is unwilling to pay you or your sister any more to cover your financial losses? Who's paying the heating bills in the house?

    Whatever you and your sister choose to do next, DO NOT give up your jobs. One third of your parents' estate isn't going to go too far once your dad has passed. Also, as I have already alluded to, please don't rule out respite care or nursing homes. Have you spoken to the local public health nurse, for example. You have a possibly misguided determination to keep your father out of a home at all costs. At the moment I don't blame you, what with Covid raging in some places again. But please, do not rule it out as a future option. Your horrible sister will rage at the idea because it will eat into her inheritance but let her. If putting your father into a home down the line is the right thing for him, do it. She will happily sit by and let you both go on the dole if that means getting her windfall.

    The OP said the house had been left to her and her sisters... the house hasn't been left to anyone yet as the father is still alive. The OP is the one here talking about inheritance, not the sister. Who says the sister is concerned with money? If she has mental health issues etc. maybe she is just doing what she needs to do for herself..maybe she has a different relationship with the father than the OP.


  • Registered Users Posts: 12,378 ✭✭✭✭Sardonicat


    Smee_Again wrote: »
    To play devil’s advocate it’s not your sister’s responsibility to pay bills on a house she doesn’t live in, nor is she obliged to give up her education to look after your dad. It’d be great if she could do both but she still has to live her life.

    If everyone took that attitude no-one would become a carer. I recall op's last thread. The sister wants at home care for her Dad, in which case she should do her share.


  • Registered Users Posts: 1,966 ✭✭✭Smee_Again


    Sardonicat wrote: »
    If everyone took that attitude no-one would become a carer. I recall op's last thread. The sister wants at home care for her Dad, in which case she should do her share.

    Not everyone can become a career, nor should we expect everyone to.

    I thought there was more to this and I’m sure the sister tells a different story to the OP. It seems the siblings disagree on how best to care for their father and this is causing the issues.


  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    We don't talk to my older sister at all anymore, it is very tense when she comes up to the house. She messes the house up on purpose to annoy us, she has become very immature and deliberating leaving heating system on in house and throwing things around the house for us to clean up as some sort of revenge tactic. She struck me twice in the previous weeks in anger when we tried to get her to take care of Dad so we could work. We have pretty much washed our hands of her at this stage and accepted that she isn't ever going to do anything.

    I suspected a will change would be unrealistic. It's just infuriating how she refuses point blank to do anything and forcing the rest of us to take a 50% pay cut from our jobs while she fcks off living her life as normal. Genuine Cnt...

    It sounds like her claim of mental health issues might not be too far from the truth. If your sibling is behaving violently towards you, and acting erratically, there is no way I would chance leaving them to take care of a vulnerable adult, alone.

    Not excusing your sibling's behaviour in any way, but some people just can't handle what comes with the responsibility of an ageing parent.

    Its unfair, but it is what it is.


  • Registered Users Posts: 930 ✭✭✭TheadoreT


    Your parents wanted all three of you to have an equal share. You can't on one hand claim to be compassionate in helping out and on another completely disrespect their wishes just so you can have a bigger slice of the pie.

    Everyone deals with these things their own way, the grief of all this on top of her two sisters ganging up on her is probably overwhelming while juggling work and college and whatever other day to day life matters.

    Even if you dont think she's put in her fair share of work it's a more important time than ever to be kind to each other and not let a bit of money sour your mind


  • Registered Users Posts: 851 ✭✭✭radiotrickster


    OP, I don't want to come across as unkind, but inheritance isn't meant as a reward for caring for your father in his old age. His money is there to care for him first and foremost. Whatever he had decided to do with any left over after he passes was his decision to be made, and even if you feel he'd think differently now if he was in sound mind, there's no way you can tell for certain.

    He could feel completely differently to you. Your sister is trying to balance work, college and coping with her grief – it's entirely possible he'd look at her and understand that she isn't capable of taking on board caring duties as well, or he might not expect or want her to put his needs before her own.

    I know that you're trying to balance a lot as well, but at the end of the day, you're choosing to facilitate caring for your father. You can't force her to choose the same.

    It sounds like you're extremely stressed about the situation and right now, the inheritance is a distraction. You're focusing on this one part of a bigger issue – maybe to avoid thinking about everything else that's going on?

    I remember your previous thread and honestly, I think you should reconsider letting professionals care for your father. Your local public health nurse could better advise you on what support is available within the community. As others have said, not all homes are abusive or uncaring.

    Is this what you want your life to be like for the next one, two, five years? Bitterness towards your sister, feeling emotionally drained and having little room to prioritise your own needs? It's only going to get harder and now is the time to be brutally honest with yourself.


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  • Registered Users Posts: 15,176 ✭✭✭✭ILoveYourVibes


    TheadoreT wrote: »
    Your parents wanted all three of you to have an equal share. You can't on one hand claim to be compassionate in helping out and on another completely disrespect their wishes just so you can have a bigger slice of the pie.

    Everyone deals with these things their own way, the grief of all this on top of her two sisters ganging up on her is probably overwhelming while juggling work and college and whatever other day to day life matters.

    Even if you dont think she's put in her fair share of work it's a more important time than ever to be kind to each other and not let a bit of money sour your mind


    I agree.

    OP either none of you are actually ENTITLED to anything ...or you all are.

    I mean in reality non of us are ENTITLED to anything from our parents.

    We get what they want us to have or felt it was their duty to give.

    And usually they want to do things equally and it gives them piece of mind.

    Using a will to hurt your sister and get back at her is just vengeful.

    She's a bad sister and maybe even a bad daughter.

    But doing this would make you ...also a bad daughter. And it would only cause more drama and hurt more people.

    You are not entitled to disinherit your sister. Only your father can do that. And if you influence that particularly with his ill health ...it might be void legally.

    It certainly wouldn't look well if she made a claim.

    I think to be honest your mind has gone to a dark place right now in your (quite rightful) anger towards your sister.

    Letting professionals help might be the answer. Try and get some state support if you can.

    Regarding your sister's abusive behavior ...don't let her come into your house for the moment.

    If she asks why ..say she is not entitled to as its your home and she has been disrespecting it and you.

    The only one who can disinherit your sister ..is your father.

    The money is not actually yours to give keep or take away. Its still his. Most parents love all their kids ..even when they are fighting.

    There isn't going to be a reward for looking after your dad other than looking after your dad.

    So if you feel its a big sacrifice ...you need to start thinking of taking care of YOU and living your own life too. Its ok to be a little selfish ..BUT IN A HEALTHY WAY.


  • Registered Users Posts: 1,272 ✭✭✭qwerty13


    I know this might be hard to hear OP, but it really sounds to me as though the most practical solution is that your father goes into a care home.

    I know you don’t like that idea, but it just sounds that you and your sibling who you are sharing caring duties with each other cannot cope. Your intentions are great - but the practicalities are clearly causing a huge amount of stress.

    How long do you realistically think you can keep up the current routine? And I think you’re viewing the assets of your parents wrongly. Surely it’s better to use your parents assets to look after your father - not as something to divide between the children.

    I understand that there may have been wishes strongly expressed re your father not going into a care home, but your mental health is clearly not in a good place. And it sounds like you’re also funding your father staying at home. And your job is at risk. The current setup just isn’t sustainable for you, financially or emotionally.

    I’m not saying that your other sibling is being fair, but they are standing up for what they can cope with. Whereas you are not. You are sacrificing yourself. You are already stressed and angry. The current situation is quite clearly not one that can continue long term.

    Your intentions and willingness to care are great, but you have to think of your own well-being too.


  • Registered Users Posts: 33,067 ✭✭✭✭listermint


    The colour of money,..

    What if I was to say to you OP. Il give you 100k but to get it you have to go through 5 years of daily hardship physically and mentally . And you have to argue with your siblings and impact your own relationships to get it

    Or

    You could forego this hardship live your life, repair broken relationships with your siblings and visit your father as often as you like whilst he enjoys professional care that you cannot give.


    The colour of money. That's only 20k per year.


  • Registered Users Posts: 17,495 ✭✭✭✭eviltwin


    Sardonicat wrote: »
    Making yourself a priority while abandoning others to sacrifice everything is disgustingly selfish behaviour. Some people just dont give a sh1t about anyone else and find various ways to excuse it to themselves and everyone else.

    Maybe she has her reasons. The OP mentioned she paid college fees. I wouldn’t call paying for education a selfish act. OP have chosen to put their life on hold, that doesn’t mean the siblings have to do the same. You seem very bitter and angry that she hasn’t made the same choice as the OP but we don’t know the family dynamics here. Not everyone has had the same experience with their parents.


  • Registered Users Posts: 6,118 ✭✭✭screamer


    Again, this happens time and again in families. Caring for elderly parents left to one or two of the kids, but when they pass away all the others come forward to claim their share. OP I’m very sorry to hear you are in that position. The pressure that it puts on people is very hard and worse when there are selfish siblings who don’t and won’t help. I would very seriously evaluate your own life, your dad is elderly and you have your life in front of you. Sometimes career breaks etc will effect your earning ability for years to come. If your dad needs such a high level of care, I would explore a nursing home route. The value in his house should first and foremost be used for his benefit and well being, and yes, that would mean a lesser inheritance for you all, but money is not everything, and you and your helpful sister need to decide what is right for yourselves and your father, inheritance aside.


  • Registered Users Posts: 12,378 ✭✭✭✭Sardonicat


    eviltwin wrote: »
    Maybe she has her reasons. The OP mentioned she paid college fees. I wouldn’t call paying for education a selfish act. OP have chosen to put their life on hold, that doesn’t mean the siblings have to do the same. You seem very bitter and angry that she hasn’t made the same choice as the OP but we don’t know the family dynamics here. Not everyone has had the same experience with their parents.

    Maybe she had her reasons for hitting OP too.


  • Moderators, Social & Fun Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 6,189 Mod ✭✭✭✭HildaOgdenx


    I remember your previous thread, OP, and I know you predicted that this is how things would work out. I see you mentioned that your dad met with the PHN. Can you ask them to meet with you and your sister?

    Forget about the will, use the assets to have him cared for. It sounds from this and your previous thread that the care required is best provided in a nursing home.

    I know of a situation where an elderly woman wanted her son to care for her. He wasn't in the first flush of youth, and would simply not have been physically able for it. The parent went into nursing home care, with bad grace, but is actually very happy there.

    My heart goes out to you. You are grieving your mum, and probably haven't had a chance to do that either.

    I hope things can be worked out. It's a very difficult situation.


  • Registered Users Posts: 850 ✭✭✭vintagecosmos


    Hi OP. For your own peace of mind you should just write your sister out of your mind completely. Forget about her.

    If tomorrow she showed up offering to help do you really think she would overnight be a changed person and be able to offer the same level of care and decency that you do? Unlikely.

    You should look at alternative care options where your father can be better cared for without your own families suffering. These fees can come out of the estate potentially meaning it's an equal split amongst siblings if that makes sense.


  • Registered Users Posts: 1,272 ✭✭✭qwerty13


    Sardonicat wrote: »
    Maybe she had her reasons for hitting OP too.

    There is NO reason for hitting her sibling. Ever.


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  • Registered Users Posts: 2,155 ✭✭✭StereoSound


    qwerty13 wrote: »
    I know this might be hard to hear OP, but it really sounds to me as though the most practical solution is that your father goes into a care home.

    I know you don’t like that idea, but it just sounds that you and your sibling who you are sharing caring duties with each other cannot cope. Your intentions are great - but the practicalities are clearly causing a huge amount of stress.

    How long do you realistically think you can keep up the current routine? And I think you’re viewing the assets of your parents wrongly. Surely it’s better to use your parents assets to look after your father - not as something to divide between the children.

    I understand that there may have been wishes strongly expressed re your father not going into a care home, but your mental health is clearly not in a good place. And it sounds like you’re also funding your father staying at home. And your job is at risk. The current setup just isn’t sustainable for you, financially or emotionally.

    I’m not saying that your other sibling is being fair, but they are standing up for what they can cope with. Whereas you are not. You are sacrificing yourself. You are already stressed and angry. The current situation is quite clearly not one that can continue long term.

    Your intentions and willingness to care are great, but you have to think of your own well-being too.

    I would agree that it would be easier for our Dad to get professional care. In my previous thread I did mention that we are waiting for ward of court to be put into place. Since Dad has a mental illness we wouldn't have any direct access to our mums money that she left to him. The plan is that when ward of court comes through we want to pay a carer from our mothers money that she left to Dad to come into the house during the daytime so we can all go back to work as normal.

    At the moment me and my sister are paying the bills, food and other expenses in the house while we both maintain our own private homes to. Living on shoe strings doing this on part time working hours. Ward of court is expected to come through February or March so we have to keep this up until then.


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