Wheelchairs vs buggies on the bus

Eleven Benevolent Elephants

What's the legal situation? Do wheelchairs users have priority?

The other day I was assisting a disabled family member to a medical appointment. She is quite a large framed lady and wouldn't fit in my small car, manoeuvring in would be an ordeal in a small Hyundai i20. Her electric wheelchair wouldn't fit in my boot either.

Since her adapted family car was in the shop, I said I'd go on the bus with her.

When the bus arrived, there was a small foldable stroller style buggy in the disabled bay, the child was walking up and down the bus and was not in the buggy.

When politely asked to move, the mother ignored us and the driver and didn't even look up from her phone. We had to disembark and wait for the next bus. We (just about) made her appointment slot.

What's the legal (or moral) situation about these spaces?

Wheel-chair accessible taxi would have been the way to go, bud. You mustn't be that fond of her, sticking her on a bus. In a pandemic, no less.

Eleven Benevolent Elephants

[Deleted User] wrote: »

Wheel-chair accessible taxi would have been the way to go, bud. You mustn't be that fond of her, sticking her on a bus. In a pandemic, no less.

Her car was taken at short notice.

Only a handful of taxis here, most want booking in advance.

Sure. Have fun with your thread.

.anon.

Maybe the driver could have been more assertive. I find that if I have to ask a passenger to do something (move from a particular seat, stop harassing someone, leave the bus, wear a mask, fold their buggy, etc), switching the engine off beforehand and then refusing to switch it back on again until they comply pretty much always works. It immediately draws the attention (and ire) of the other passengers onto them, and they essentially do the job for me.

GT89

Eleven Benevolent Elephants wrote: »

What's the legal situation? Do wheelchairs users have priority?

The other day I was assisting a disabled family member to a medical appointment. She is quite a large framed lady and wouldn't fit in my small car, manoeuvring in would be an ordeal in a small Hyundai i20. Her electric wheelchair wouldn't fit in my boot either.

Since her adapted family car was in the shop, I said I'd go on the bus with her.

When the bus arrived, there was a small foldable stroller style buggy in the disabled bay, the child was walking up and down the bus and was not in the buggy.

When politely asked to move, the mother ignored us and the driver and didn't even look up from her phone. We had to disembark and wait for the next bus. We (just about) made her appointment slot.

What's the legal (or moral) situation about these spaces?

The driver has no responsibility to get the buggy user to fold up the buggy. The drivers job is to operate the bus in a safe and efficient manner not police the buggy space.

Personally if I were a wheelchair user I would leave extra time for my journey although that is wrong and should not be the case unfortunately until buggies are either banned off buses full stop unless folded up or buses are bought with multiple wheelchair spaces this situation will continue.

.anon.

GT89 wrote: »

The driver has no responsibility to get the buggy user to fold up the buggy.

The driver, along with all the other passengers on the bus, has a moral responsibility to ensure that a wheelchair user isn't left on the side of the road because some selfish parent won't fold their buggy.

magicbastarder

i can't see any easy answer to this; if the bus has been designed with a space dedicated to a wheelchair *or* a buggy (but not both at the same time); how can you mandate how a valid user already on the bus should react to another valid user also needing the same space? and how do you decide what is 'valid' beyond the physical presence of an infant in a buggy at boarding.

alias no.9

I've been the parent with the buggy, folding/stowing the buggy and take the child on your lap is the decent thing to do. Both parties can complete their journeys. Unfortunately, there is no shortage of assholes out there.

GT89

.anon. wrote: »

The driver, along with all the other passengers on the bus, has a moral responsibility to ensure that a wheelchair user isn't left on the side of the road because some selfish parent won't fold their buggy.

Currently it's not mandatory for buggy users to fold up or move spaces if a wheelchair user needs to board. Radioing the bus behind to make sure the wheelchair is clear on that bus is more than enough as to any moral responsibility of the driver.

Have you not been assaulted or threatened at some stage in your bus driving career due to taking this approach?

.anon.

GT89 wrote: »

Have you not been assaulted or threatened at some stage in your bus driving career due to taking this approach?

Nope. People tend not to feel very brave when you've turned the other passengers against them.

GT89

.anon. wrote: »

Nope. People tend not to feel very brave when you've turned the other passengers against them.

But those will be the first to pick up the phone to complain generally

.anon.

GT89 wrote: »

But those will be the first to pick up the phone to complain generally

I've never had a complaint made against me. Or if I have, it wasn't serious enough for me to be told about it.

BowWow

GT89 wrote: »

The driver has no responsibility to get the buggy user to fold up the buggy. The drivers job is to operate the bus in a safe and efficient manner not police the buggy space.

Sorry, IMO it is the driver's job to police the buggy space..

john boye

I kind of feel this has always been a grey area since low floor buses were first introduced all those years ago and it's something that DB (or whoever was in charge then) should have set out clearly from the start, that wheelchair users get priority. Instead we just sort of meandered through to the point now where we even have a dedicated buggy space too and it's still not very clear who gets the wheelchair space.

BowWow

GT89 wrote: »

Personally if I were a wheelchair user I would leave extra time for my journey....

Yep, you're right It was the wheelchair user's fault and not the selfish mother, sorry.

GT89

BowWow wrote: »

Yep, you're right It was the wheelchair user's fault and not the selfish mother, sorry.

In an ideal world obivously the buggy user would move or fold it up without even needing to be asked unfortunately we don't live in an ideal world.

punisher5112

On the 45a, bray, woman in a wheelchair, buggies at the stop too, AX so only one space I put the ramp out and asked others to stand back, got wheelchair user on, 2 buggies then follow suit, I asked nicely to fold as not enough space, I was abused, recorded and photographed.....

Same getting off.

One of the scum bags had her pussy boyfriend on the phone and he took it upon himself to wait for me on the main Street in bray..... On my run back to Dun Laoghaire... Edit

He wanted a fight and wouldn't allow me to proceed further, not one person helped or told him to f off, 3 Garda cars arrived in the fastest time I've ever had and he was removed but no further action even though there was death threats etc ....


This wasn't the 1st time and won't be the last.....

punisher5112

Biggest issues are discrimination and we don't know if the child has a disability or is unwell etc etc....


Also with the pc brigades and other issues in the now we live in many see men as a danger to their child etc etc....

Gatling

Unfortunately thanks to a court case it's first come first served ,you can ask the mother to fold nicely but there is no legal obligation to do so ,

"Quote: Eleven Benevolent Elephants

A man falsely accused suffers more than a rape victim."

Just for the record, the OP posted that a few hours ago. Not too sure he's bothered about his imagined bus troubles.

Antares35

Legally I don't think there's much that can be done, but morally you'd think that the buggy should not be given preference. A child can be taken out and the buggy folded. Am assuming it would be decidedly more difficult to fold a wheelchair and sit the user.on ones lap. If it was me, I wouldn't hesitate to move my child and buggy if a wheelchair user got on. Sadly we live in a world of selfish, self-entitled people who think what they "are allowed" to do is the same as what they should do.

Antares35

BowWow wrote: »

Sorry, IMO it is the driver's job to police the buggy space..

I don't see why a driver should risk being abused for the sake of trying to get people to do the decent thing.

anewme

It's also about how you approach people. Agressive contrary people dont get anywhere and result in people digging their heels in. I feel for the driver facing this scenario.

GT89

anewme wrote: »

It's also about how you approach people. Agressive contrary people dont get anywhere and result in people digging their heels in. I feel for the driver facing this scenario.

It's quite simple for the bus driver really though. Ask the buggy user politely to move or fold up the buggy if the answer is yes deploy the ramp and let wheelchair user on or if answer is no then refuse the wheelchair and continue with the journey.

I reccomend people on the thread give this video a watch as it gives the subject of the thread the outlook from a bus drivers perspective. Although this is set in the United States the same thing can be appplied in Ireland.
https://youtu.be/s4QWCngZdu0

bigpink

No doubt a scummy mother

JustAThought

bigpink wrote: »

No doubt a scummy mother

Plenty of them out there. Shocked by this scenario tbh and that of the bus driver in Bray. Wheelchair users should be given top priority IMO - a child can be carried /sat on a lap there is zero excuse.

Also some bus routes are used by wheelchair users including young wheelchair user teenagers being independent & going to a central venue like a day centre or youth club -
they are forced off public transport as two or
more wheelchair users going to the same end destination can’t use the same bus route at the same time . Its pretty harsh and riduculous and makes being thier parwnt
or carer even harder. Try telling a ‘norml’ teenager they had to wait for a later bus and can’t travel with their friends by bus into town or to school independently - they’d be a national outcry. And yet we talk about public transport, care in the community and so called community living and integration.

Ministers for disability and public transport l,
helloOooo

Eleven Benevolent Elephants

[Deleted User] wrote: »

"Quote: Eleven Benevolent Elephants

A man falsely accused suffers more than a rape victim."

Just for the record, the OP posted that a few hours ago. Not too sure he's bothered about his imagined bus troubles.

What does that have to do with this situation?

If you're trying to imply I'm lying there's a report button.

FitzElla

Obviously doesn't apply in the OP case as the child was walking around. But depending on the buggy it might take 2 hands to fold it down. If a parent is on their own with a new born baby they don't really have many options. Either they get off the bus to make space or stay where they are. They might equally be on their way to a hospital appointment so it is not always black and white.

AlekSmart

Eleven Benevolent Elephants wrote: »

What's the legal situation? Do wheelchairs users have priority?

The other day I was assisting a disabled family member to a medical appointment. She is quite a large framed lady and wouldn't fit in my small car, manoeuvring in would be an ordeal in a small Hyundai i20. Her electric wheelchair wouldn't fit in my boot either.

Since her adapted family car was in the shop, I said I'd go on the bus with her.

When the bus arrived, there was a small foldable stroller style buggy in the disabled bay, the child was walking up and down the bus and was not in the buggy.

When politely asked to move, the mother ignored us and the driver and didn't even look up from her phone. We had to disembark and wait for the next bus. We (just about) made her appointment slot.

What's the legal (or moral) situation about these spaces?

To address the first two (perhaps secondary ?) points in the OP.

The Legality is dealt with under the "Equal Status Act 2000-2018" (ESA) and various amendments to date..

http://www.irishstatutebook.ie/eli/2000/act/8/enacted/en/print.html

It is of note that "Disability",is only one of the many grounds covered by the ESA.

Given that the Busdriver in this case,presumably deployed the access ramp,to embark your relative,any grounds for proving discrimination might be difficult to show.

Legally a Busdriver does Not have any specific right to force another bone fide passenger to vacate the specific space to accomodate a Wheelchair user.

The Operators responsibility extends to providing a suitable vehicle,with specific means of access and clearly marked sections,in addition to a Staff members who have recieved specific training in Disability Awareness and to operate the equipment.

After that,it is First Come - First Served.

Depending on the Bus type,there may be space for BOTH an occupied buggy AND a Wheelchair.

Assuming it was a Dublin Bus provided service,there may be further relevant information here...

https://www.dublinbus.ie/Your-Journey1/Accessibility/Passengers-with-buggies/

If someone in a wheelchair wishes to board when there is an unfolded buggy in the wheelchair space, the driver will ask you to fold the buggy and either put it in the luggage space or keep it by your side.

On newer vehicles the situation alters somewhat....

On all new buses there is both a wheelchair space and a buggy space, buggy owners may use both spaces but the buggy owner in the wheelchair space must move out of this space if a wheelchair user wishes to board the bus.

Additionally,in relation to Wheelchair users specifically...

https://www.dublinbus.ie/Your-Journey1/Accessibility/Passengers-using-Wheelchairs/

It is sometimes overlooked that there is a specific limit on Wheelchair Size & Weight.

On all low floor buses there is one space for a person using a wheelchair. Wheelchairs can be accomodated up to a size of 70cm wide and 120cm long.

There are a couple of avenues open to you in relation to having your complaint addressed.

Whilst your prime concern may be your relative,it appears that you also have an issue with the Busdrivers behaviour,in which case you should make full use of the existing procedures in that company

There is a general comment/complaint form,also capable of accomodating compliments & suggestions for good service.

https://www.dublinbus.ie/Contact-Us1/Customer-Comment-Form/

Also,in your case,there is a specific compliant process unde the ERA whereby issues can be raised and investigated.

https://www.dublinbus.ie/Your-Journey1/Accessibility/Inquiry-Officer/

If your issues refer to a Go-Ahead Ireland operated service then the contacts are different...

The overall relevance of the ESA remains,however the relevant bye-laws are available here.

https://www.nationaltransport.ie/public-transport-services/pso-contracts/bus/public-passengers-transport-services-bye-laws-2019/

The Operator details: https://www.goaheadireland.ie/contact

As you can appreciate,there are avenues available for you to seek explanations or other forms of redress,none of which are available on a discussion forum.

Please keep the thread informed ?

strandroad

FitzElla wrote: »

Obviously doesn't apply in the OP case as the child was walking around. But depending on the buggy it might take 2 hands to fold it down. If a parent is on their own with a new born baby they don't really have many options. Either they get off the bus to make space or stay where they are. They might equally be on their way to a hospital appointment so it is not always black and white.

It's a badly designed system for all; the problem does not exist where bendy buses are used, with their multiple doors and bays at each door.

Gatling

strandroad wrote: »

It's a badly designed system for all; the problem does not exist where bendy buses are used, with their multiple doors and bays at each door.

It also applies to parents too if your solely reliant on public transport you have to buy a Buggy that's suitable and easy to use to public transport ,not these bloody SUV sized Buggys that they have no clue how to fold which doesn't help

FitzElla

Gatling wrote: »

It also applies to parents too if your solely reliant on public transport you have to buy a Buggy that's suitable and easy to use to public transport ,not these bloody SUV sized Buggys that they have no clue how to fold which doesn't help

Doesn't matter what buggy it is, asking a new mother to lift a newborn out, fold up a buggy and store it out of the way if she is on her own is not realistic. If a wheelchair user gets on that bus there is only room for one of them. People suggesting policies that the wheelchair user always gets priority means kicking that mother and baby off the bus. The driver can ask and you hope common sense would prevail it is not always a "scummy mother" as someone above said.

anewme

FitzElla wrote: »

Doesn't matter what buggy it is, asking a new mother to lift a newborn out, fold up a buggy and store it out of the way if she is on her own is not realistic. If a wheelchair user gets on that bus there is only room for one of them. People suggesting policies that the wheelchair user always gets priority means kicking that mother and baby off the bus. The driver can ask and you hope common sense would prevail it is not always a "scummy mother" as someone above said.

Absolutely no need for the scummy Mother comment whatsoever.

FitzElla

FitzElla wrote: »

Doesn't matter what buggy it is, asking a new mother to lift a newborn out, fold up a buggy and store it out of the way if she is on her own is not realistic. If a wheelchair user gets on that bus there is only room for one of them. People suggesting policies that the wheelchair user always gets priority means kicking that mother and baby off the bus. The driver can ask and you hope common sense would prevail it is not always a "scummy mother" as someone above said.

Not realistic?

Dear god, how did we ever manage back in the dark ages before roll on ramps and dedicated buggy bays?

I'll tell you how - we asked someone to hold the baby for two seconds while we folded the buggy - or we bought buggies that could be operated one handed with baby on your hip. Maclarens were great for that.

I seriously wonder about the moral compass of some people nowadays when folding a buggy to let a wheelchair user on a bus is even something that requires debate.

Wheelchair user should have priority in the wheelchair bay at all times - both morally and legally - no exceptions.

FitzElla

Deleted User wrote: »

I seriously wonder about the moral compass of some people nowadays when folding a buggy to let a wheelchair user on a bus is even something that requires debate.

Wheelchair user should have priority in the wheelchair bay at all times - both morally and legally - no exceptions.

I was just pointing out that not every buggy folds down and not every mother is so able to sling the newborn on their hip and get the buggy out of the way. I think the wheelchair user should be given priority in so far as possible, but not every circumstance is as simple as that when you have two people trying to use the same space.

thegetawaycar

People are referring to possible scenarios around new borns etc...

They aren't relevant in the OPs case, the child is walking around, it's just entitled behaviour from members of society who couldn't give a **** about others.

punisher5112

If the child isn't in the buggy then the buggy must be stowed away.....

Gatling

FitzElla wrote: »

I was just pointing out that not every buggy folds down and not every mother

But the majority do fold , it's more a case ohhh look at my huge €600 buggy ,can you fold it ,ehh sure someone else will have to fold there's instead .

I said this previously I'm a dad who was asked to fold a buggy with one hand a few days after major shoulder surgery and hold a baby who is quite difficult at times ,why was I asked to fold because the little miss I a lone parent her words and shouldn't have to fold ,

It's a case of people needing to work together ,if your solely reliant on public transport you have to able to fold your buggy and sit with your child , buying a buggy that doesn't fold or is so wide you have to jam it though other passengers is rediculous and unnecessary

GT89

punisher5112 wrote: »

If the child isn't in the buggy then the buggy must be stowed away.....

Driver probably didn't want the hassle/aggro of telling them that.

FitzElla

FitzElla wrote: »

I was just pointing out that not every buggy folds down and not every mother is so able to sling the newborn on their hip and get the buggy out of the way. I think the wheelchair user should be given priority in so far as possible, but not every circumstance is as simple as that when you have two people trying to use the same space.

Why would anyone buy a buggy that does not fold down? That it totally impractical, especially if you have to use public transport.

Sorry, I have to disagree - the wheelchair user should have priority in the wheelchair space, in all circumstances. Its not like they have a selection of other viable options available to them, and they should never be put in a situation where they could potentially be left sitting by the side of the road while bus after bus passes by because the wheelchair bay is already occupied by parents with unfolded buggies.

There are other options for parents - alternative buggies or even a sling if its a newborn.

Mullaghteelin

Antares35 wrote: »

I don't see why a driver should risk being abused for the sake of trying to get people to do the decent thing.

So a driver should not confront a passenger over anything because of the "risk of being abused". This is ridiculous and cowardly!
Just think of the implications of applying that logic elsewhere, in situations that do not involve moving a buggy. The only way to avoid the risk of being abused is not leaving your house! The driver is at risk of being abused just from driving the bus!

A passenger who abuses the driver has no right to be on the bus, and the other passengers shouldnt have to put up with such an individual either.

Gatling

Mullaghteelin wrote: »

So a driver should not confront a passenger over anything because of the "risk of being abused".

Hundreds of driver have been abused and assaulted doing just that ,there not paid to police buggy folding they can ask but there is no legal obligation to fold ,

It's like on Micky money day 4 + buggys on some buses when there is only supposed to be 2 at most , including in the isle

Antares35

[Deleted User] wrote: »

Not realistic?

Dear god, how did we ever manage back in the dark ages before roll on ramps and dedicated buggy bays?

I'll tell you how - we asked someone to hold the baby for two seconds while we folded the buggy - or we bought buggies that could be operated one handed with baby on your hip. Maclarens were great for that.

I seriously wonder about the moral compass of some people nowadays when folding a buggy to let a wheelchair user on a bus is even something that requires debate.

Wheelchair user should have priority in the wheelchair bay at all times - both morally and legally - no exceptions.

Good point. In the current climate though, I think I'd be asking a stranger to fold the buggy not hold my child

Antares35

Mullaghteelin wrote: »

So a driver should not confront a passenger over anything because of the "risk of being abused". This is ridiculous and cowardly!
Just think of the implications of applying that logic elsewhere, in situations that do not involve moving a buggy. The only way to avoid the risk of being abused is not leaving your house! The driver is at risk of being abused just from driving the bus!

A passenger who abuses the driver has no right to be on the bus, and the other passengers shouldnt have to put up with such an individual either.

He's a driver. He isn't security, a bouncer, an arbitrator, keeper of the peace etc.

As for your comments that he shouldn't "confront a passenger over anything" and he "can't leave the house" etc., I don't engage in whataboutery hysteria.

Did you read the account from the poster who was abused?

GT89

Mullaghteelin wrote: »

So a driver should not confront a passenger over anything because of the "risk of being abused". This is ridiculous and cowardly!
Just think of the implications of applying that logic elsewhere, in situations that do not involve moving a buggy. The only way to avoid the risk of being abused is not leaving your house! The driver is at risk of being abused just from driving the bus!

A passenger who abuses the driver has no right to be on the bus, and the other passengers shouldnt have to put up with such an individual either.

No this is common sense. Bus driving is a job where there is a real threat of verbal and physical abuse aswell as violence. Assaults on drivers are a real issue and understably drivers will take measures to prevent as many of these incidents from occuring where their own personal safety is at risk.

91wx763

Gatling wrote: »

Hundreds of driver have been abused and assaulted doing just that ,there not paid to police buggy folding they can ask but there is no legal obligation to fold ,

It's like on Micky money day 4 + buggys on some buses when there is only supposed to be 2 at most , including in the isle

The issue is not getting the pushchairs on- it's getting them off in an emergency.

I think DB really needs to look at the rules again. Whoever that woman was who called ahead and had her boyfriend waiting a few stops down ready to attack the driver should have been brought up on charges.

In my day you had to have your buggy already folded ready to get on the bus when it pulled up at the stop as unfolded wasn't even an option - and then there were no ramps, just two high steps to climb! If you were lucky someone would offer to hold the baby (or lift the buggy on for you) or if you were extremely lucky you got a friendly driver who'd jump out of the cab and lift the buggy on for you. (but it was never expected that they do that).

Having ramps and a dedicated buggy bay that allows buggies to be wheeled onto buses is a fantastic priviledge for parents today, but being able to have an unfolded buggy on the bus should never come at the expense of a wheelchair user.

It should be understood that if a wheelchair user needs to use the wheelchair space, they take priority in that space and that any buggy already in the space is folded. Its only common decency.

Kopparberg Strawberry and Lime

I remember back in the day when I was driving the 46a

We didn't have many new buses then, from 2014 to early 2016 I was there driving them and mostly on that route I would mostly drive the 2005 reg'd tri-axle buses with only 1 wheelchair space.

I remember a couple, they would always be together and have a buggy each. And everytime they would get on, pay the fair, I'd tell them they must fold one of them because of the space, they would agree and then they proceed to ram the two of them in together.
I remember one day there was another young one in the bay already with a buggy and they jammed all 3 buggies in at once.

I didn't move from the stop and I switched off the engine on all occasions until they either folded or got off and amazingly everytime I got them they got off and walked but everytime the guy gave me hounds of abuse and banged on the screen etc at me.

They are just pure scum. Ignorant, free loading **** and the worst thing Dublin bus did was allow buggies on buses back in the day. They should've made it wheel chairs only.

Even the day I remember well there was a buggy in the bay and that was fine. But the baby was screaming and crying and all sorts , and it was really giving me a right headache while trying to drive the bus. It was incredibly distracting and I didn't blame the mother because in her defence she tried. I couldn't ask her to get off because that would be wrong also. It was a though situation and a disaster of a thing to have in your ear.
At one point the noise was so loud and high pitched, I was stopped at a red light with the handbrake on and I had closed my eyes in pain and I was there that long I missed the green !

There have been times I nearly had to leave wheelchair users behind at stops because of ignorant buggy pushers, eventually they lose the argument with me but as others have experienced, all you get is abuse and threats. Absolutely no winning.

Like I say they should be wheelchair only bays, no unfolded buggies at all. If the bus where to crash etc the buggy would go flying and be an even worse hazard

GT89

Kopparberg Strawberry and Lime wrote: »

I remember back in the day when I was driving the 46a

We didn't have many new buses then, from 2014 to early 2016 I was there driving them and mostly on that route I would mostly drive the 2005 reg'd tri-axle buses with only 1 wheelchair space.

I remember a couple, they would always be together and have a buggy each. And everytime they would get on, pay the fair, I'd tell them they must fold one of them because of the space, they would agree and then they proceed to ram the two of them in together.
I remember one day there was another young one in the bay already with a buggy and they jammed all 3 buggies in at once.

I didn't move from the stop and I switched off the engine on all occasions until they either folded or got off and amazingly everytime I got them they got off and walked but everytime the guy gave me hounds of abuse and banged on the screen etc at me.

They are just pure scum. Ignorant, free loading **** and the worst thing Dublin bus did was allow buggies on buses back in the day. They should've made it wheel chairs only.

Even the day I remember well there was a buggy in the bay and that was fine. But the baby was screaming and crying and all sorts , and it was really giving me a right headache while trying to drive the bus. It was incredibly distracting and I didn't blame the mother because in her defence she tried. I couldn't ask her to get off because that would be wrong also. It was a though situation and a disaster of a thing to have in your ear.
At one point the noise was so loud and high pitched, I was stopped at a red light with the handbrake on and I had closed my eyes in pain and I was there that long I missed the green !

There have been times I nearly had to leave wheelchair users behind at stops because of ignorant buggy pushers, eventually they lose the argument with me but as others have experienced, all you get is abuse and threats. Absolutely no winning.

Like I say they should be wheelchair only bays, no unfolded buggies at all. If the bus where to crash etc the buggy would go flying and be an even worse hazard

Something like this minus calling the Gardai?
https://youtu.be/tXdDv7LUgqg

Kopparberg Strawberry and Lime

GT89 wrote: »

Something like this minus calling the Gardai?
https://youtu.be/tXdDv7LUgqg

Ah I remember that video

I don't know the full in and out of that, maybe there was an argument before the video started but I always though calling the gardai was a bit over the top

My situation was similar but I remember it was around lunch time in the day and the bus wasn't busy really and I'm my case the child was a lot younger too so I didn't/couldn't do anything about it