Wheelchairs vs buggies on the bus

Gatling

strandroad wrote: »

It's a badly designed system for all; the problem does not exist where bendy buses are used, with their multiple doors and bays at each door.

It also applies to parents too if your solely reliant on public transport you have to buy a Buggy that's suitable and easy to use to public transport ,not these bloody SUV sized Buggys that they have no clue how to fold which doesn't help

FitzElla

Gatling wrote: »

It also applies to parents too if your solely reliant on public transport you have to buy a Buggy that's suitable and easy to use to public transport ,not these bloody SUV sized Buggys that they have no clue how to fold which doesn't help

Doesn't matter what buggy it is, asking a new mother to lift a newborn out, fold up a buggy and store it out of the way if she is on her own is not realistic. If a wheelchair user gets on that bus there is only room for one of them. People suggesting policies that the wheelchair user always gets priority means kicking that mother and baby off the bus. The driver can ask and you hope common sense would prevail it is not always a "scummy mother" as someone above said.

anewme

FitzElla wrote: »

Doesn't matter what buggy it is, asking a new mother to lift a newborn out, fold up a buggy and store it out of the way if she is on her own is not realistic. If a wheelchair user gets on that bus there is only room for one of them. People suggesting policies that the wheelchair user always gets priority means kicking that mother and baby off the bus. The driver can ask and you hope common sense would prevail it is not always a "scummy mother" as someone above said.

Absolutely no need for the scummy Mother comment whatsoever.

FitzElla

FitzElla wrote: »

Doesn't matter what buggy it is, asking a new mother to lift a newborn out, fold up a buggy and store it out of the way if she is on her own is not realistic. If a wheelchair user gets on that bus there is only room for one of them. People suggesting policies that the wheelchair user always gets priority means kicking that mother and baby off the bus. The driver can ask and you hope common sense would prevail it is not always a "scummy mother" as someone above said.

Not realistic?

Dear god, how did we ever manage back in the dark ages before roll on ramps and dedicated buggy bays?

I'll tell you how - we asked someone to hold the baby for two seconds while we folded the buggy - or we bought buggies that could be operated one handed with baby on your hip. Maclarens were great for that.

I seriously wonder about the moral compass of some people nowadays when folding a buggy to let a wheelchair user on a bus is even something that requires debate.

Wheelchair user should have priority in the wheelchair bay at all times - both morally and legally - no exceptions.

FitzElla

Deleted User wrote: »

I seriously wonder about the moral compass of some people nowadays when folding a buggy to let a wheelchair user on a bus is even something that requires debate.

Wheelchair user should have priority in the wheelchair bay at all times - both morally and legally - no exceptions.

I was just pointing out that not every buggy folds down and not every mother is so able to sling the newborn on their hip and get the buggy out of the way. I think the wheelchair user should be given priority in so far as possible, but not every circumstance is as simple as that when you have two people trying to use the same space.

thegetawaycar

People are referring to possible scenarios around new borns etc...

They aren't relevant in the OPs case, the child is walking around, it's just entitled behaviour from members of society who couldn't give a **** about others.

punisher5112

If the child isn't in the buggy then the buggy must be stowed away.....

Gatling

FitzElla wrote: »

I was just pointing out that not every buggy folds down and not every mother

But the majority do fold , it's more a case ohhh look at my huge €600 buggy ,can you fold it ,ehh sure someone else will have to fold there's instead .

I said this previously I'm a dad who was asked to fold a buggy with one hand a few days after major shoulder surgery and hold a baby who is quite difficult at times ,why was I asked to fold because the little miss I a lone parent her words and shouldn't have to fold ,

It's a case of people needing to work together ,if your solely reliant on public transport you have to able to fold your buggy and sit with your child , buying a buggy that doesn't fold or is so wide you have to jam it though other passengers is rediculous and unnecessary

GT89

punisher5112 wrote: »

If the child isn't in the buggy then the buggy must be stowed away.....

Driver probably didn't want the hassle/aggro of telling them that.

FitzElla

FitzElla wrote: »

I was just pointing out that not every buggy folds down and not every mother is so able to sling the newborn on their hip and get the buggy out of the way. I think the wheelchair user should be given priority in so far as possible, but not every circumstance is as simple as that when you have two people trying to use the same space.

Why would anyone buy a buggy that does not fold down? That it totally impractical, especially if you have to use public transport.

Sorry, I have to disagree - the wheelchair user should have priority in the wheelchair space, in all circumstances. Its not like they have a selection of other viable options available to them, and they should never be put in a situation where they could potentially be left sitting by the side of the road while bus after bus passes by because the wheelchair bay is already occupied by parents with unfolded buggies.

There are other options for parents - alternative buggies or even a sling if its a newborn.

Mullaghteelin

Antares35 wrote: »

I don't see why a driver should risk being abused for the sake of trying to get people to do the decent thing.

So a driver should not confront a passenger over anything because of the "risk of being abused". This is ridiculous and cowardly!
Just think of the implications of applying that logic elsewhere, in situations that do not involve moving a buggy. The only way to avoid the risk of being abused is not leaving your house! The driver is at risk of being abused just from driving the bus!

A passenger who abuses the driver has no right to be on the bus, and the other passengers shouldnt have to put up with such an individual either.

Gatling

Mullaghteelin wrote: »

So a driver should not confront a passenger over anything because of the "risk of being abused".

Hundreds of driver have been abused and assaulted doing just that ,there not paid to police buggy folding they can ask but there is no legal obligation to fold ,

It's like on Micky money day 4 + buggys on some buses when there is only supposed to be 2 at most , including in the isle

Antares35

[Deleted User] wrote: »

Not realistic?

Dear god, how did we ever manage back in the dark ages before roll on ramps and dedicated buggy bays?

I'll tell you how - we asked someone to hold the baby for two seconds while we folded the buggy - or we bought buggies that could be operated one handed with baby on your hip. Maclarens were great for that.

I seriously wonder about the moral compass of some people nowadays when folding a buggy to let a wheelchair user on a bus is even something that requires debate.

Wheelchair user should have priority in the wheelchair bay at all times - both morally and legally - no exceptions.

Good point. In the current climate though, I think I'd be asking a stranger to fold the buggy not hold my child

Antares35

Mullaghteelin wrote: »

So a driver should not confront a passenger over anything because of the "risk of being abused". This is ridiculous and cowardly!
Just think of the implications of applying that logic elsewhere, in situations that do not involve moving a buggy. The only way to avoid the risk of being abused is not leaving your house! The driver is at risk of being abused just from driving the bus!

A passenger who abuses the driver has no right to be on the bus, and the other passengers shouldnt have to put up with such an individual either.

He's a driver. He isn't security, a bouncer, an arbitrator, keeper of the peace etc.

As for your comments that he shouldn't "confront a passenger over anything" and he "can't leave the house" etc., I don't engage in whataboutery hysteria.

Did you read the account from the poster who was abused?

GT89

Mullaghteelin wrote: »

So a driver should not confront a passenger over anything because of the "risk of being abused". This is ridiculous and cowardly!
Just think of the implications of applying that logic elsewhere, in situations that do not involve moving a buggy. The only way to avoid the risk of being abused is not leaving your house! The driver is at risk of being abused just from driving the bus!

A passenger who abuses the driver has no right to be on the bus, and the other passengers shouldnt have to put up with such an individual either.

No this is common sense. Bus driving is a job where there is a real threat of verbal and physical abuse aswell as violence. Assaults on drivers are a real issue and understably drivers will take measures to prevent as many of these incidents from occuring where their own personal safety is at risk.

91wx763

Gatling wrote: »

Hundreds of driver have been abused and assaulted doing just that ,there not paid to police buggy folding they can ask but there is no legal obligation to fold ,

It's like on Micky money day 4 + buggys on some buses when there is only supposed to be 2 at most , including in the isle

The issue is not getting the pushchairs on- it's getting them off in an emergency.

I think DB really needs to look at the rules again. Whoever that woman was who called ahead and had her boyfriend waiting a few stops down ready to attack the driver should have been brought up on charges.

In my day you had to have your buggy already folded ready to get on the bus when it pulled up at the stop as unfolded wasn't even an option - and then there were no ramps, just two high steps to climb! If you were lucky someone would offer to hold the baby (or lift the buggy on for you) or if you were extremely lucky you got a friendly driver who'd jump out of the cab and lift the buggy on for you. (but it was never expected that they do that).

Having ramps and a dedicated buggy bay that allows buggies to be wheeled onto buses is a fantastic priviledge for parents today, but being able to have an unfolded buggy on the bus should never come at the expense of a wheelchair user.

It should be understood that if a wheelchair user needs to use the wheelchair space, they take priority in that space and that any buggy already in the space is folded. Its only common decency.

Kopparberg Strawberry and Lime

I remember back in the day when I was driving the 46a

We didn't have many new buses then, from 2014 to early 2016 I was there driving them and mostly on that route I would mostly drive the 2005 reg'd tri-axle buses with only 1 wheelchair space.

I remember a couple, they would always be together and have a buggy each. And everytime they would get on, pay the fair, I'd tell them they must fold one of them because of the space, they would agree and then they proceed to ram the two of them in together.
I remember one day there was another young one in the bay already with a buggy and they jammed all 3 buggies in at once.

I didn't move from the stop and I switched off the engine on all occasions until they either folded or got off and amazingly everytime I got them they got off and walked but everytime the guy gave me hounds of abuse and banged on the screen etc at me.

They are just pure scum. Ignorant, free loading **** and the worst thing Dublin bus did was allow buggies on buses back in the day. They should've made it wheel chairs only.

Even the day I remember well there was a buggy in the bay and that was fine. But the baby was screaming and crying and all sorts , and it was really giving me a right headache while trying to drive the bus. It was incredibly distracting and I didn't blame the mother because in her defence she tried. I couldn't ask her to get off because that would be wrong also. It was a though situation and a disaster of a thing to have in your ear.
At one point the noise was so loud and high pitched, I was stopped at a red light with the handbrake on and I had closed my eyes in pain and I was there that long I missed the green !

There have been times I nearly had to leave wheelchair users behind at stops because of ignorant buggy pushers, eventually they lose the argument with me but as others have experienced, all you get is abuse and threats. Absolutely no winning.

Like I say they should be wheelchair only bays, no unfolded buggies at all. If the bus where to crash etc the buggy would go flying and be an even worse hazard

GT89

Kopparberg Strawberry and Lime wrote: »

I remember back in the day when I was driving the 46a

We didn't have many new buses then, from 2014 to early 2016 I was there driving them and mostly on that route I would mostly drive the 2005 reg'd tri-axle buses with only 1 wheelchair space.

I remember a couple, they would always be together and have a buggy each. And everytime they would get on, pay the fair, I'd tell them they must fold one of them because of the space, they would agree and then they proceed to ram the two of them in together.
I remember one day there was another young one in the bay already with a buggy and they jammed all 3 buggies in at once.

I didn't move from the stop and I switched off the engine on all occasions until they either folded or got off and amazingly everytime I got them they got off and walked but everytime the guy gave me hounds of abuse and banged on the screen etc at me.

They are just pure scum. Ignorant, free loading **** and the worst thing Dublin bus did was allow buggies on buses back in the day. They should've made it wheel chairs only.

Even the day I remember well there was a buggy in the bay and that was fine. But the baby was screaming and crying and all sorts , and it was really giving me a right headache while trying to drive the bus. It was incredibly distracting and I didn't blame the mother because in her defence she tried. I couldn't ask her to get off because that would be wrong also. It was a though situation and a disaster of a thing to have in your ear.
At one point the noise was so loud and high pitched, I was stopped at a red light with the handbrake on and I had closed my eyes in pain and I was there that long I missed the green !

There have been times I nearly had to leave wheelchair users behind at stops because of ignorant buggy pushers, eventually they lose the argument with me but as others have experienced, all you get is abuse and threats. Absolutely no winning.

Like I say they should be wheelchair only bays, no unfolded buggies at all. If the bus where to crash etc the buggy would go flying and be an even worse hazard

Something like this minus calling the Gardai?
https://youtu.be/tXdDv7LUgqg

Kopparberg Strawberry and Lime

GT89 wrote: »

Something like this minus calling the Gardai?
https://youtu.be/tXdDv7LUgqg

Ah I remember that video

I don't know the full in and out of that, maybe there was an argument before the video started but I always though calling the gardai was a bit over the top

My situation was similar but I remember it was around lunch time in the day and the bus wasn't busy really and I'm my case the child was a lot younger too so I didn't/couldn't do anything about it

dashcamdanny

This is a bit of a small or rare issue. It does not happen very often. At least in my experience.

Definitely not worth getting your knockers in a twist over.

Close the door, drive on. Another bus will come.

Not the end of the world.

I dont get involved unless its lashing rain. And even then. Why would I.

Just drive..

GT89

dashcamdanny wrote: »

This is a bit of a small or rare issue. It does not happen very often. At least in my experience.

Definitely not worth getting your knockers in a twist over.

Close the door, drive on. Another bus will come.

Not the end of the world.

I dont get involved unless its lashing rain. And even then. Why would I.

Just drive..

This is the correct attitude in my opinion. Personally as a passenger I prefer types of driver like yourself who seem more relaxed.

dashcamdanny

GT89 wrote: »

This is the correct attitude in my opinion. Personally as a passenger I prefer types of driver like yourself who seem more relaxed.

Wages get paid regardless.

Dublin Bus gets paid regardless.

If people want to be A-holes and leave a wheelchair sitting outside because the cant or wont move, let them at it.
To many drivers want to be heros and usually either end up stressed, hurt or in the office in front of a manager over minor issues.