Weanlings with snots and slight cough

funkey_monkey

We normally get some Nasal spray (Rispoval) for each batch of so calves we get in, but this year didn't. A couple got pneumonia and needed Draxxin which is expensive stuff.
Had to do the entire batch.
In regards to draughts, calves are fine with over head draught/ventilation. They don't like low draughts at ground level.

Base price

cacs wrote: »

Wow didn’t know that

As a matter of interest - Why?

SuperTeeJay

cacs wrote: »

Wow didn’t know that

Ctc 15% is generally only included in weaning rations in piggeries to treat pneumonia.Not in fattening rations.So with a 6/7 day withdrawal its months out of their system before slaughter.
Ctc /respichlor/chloromed15% would be the normal product.10% far less so.

orm0nd

ABitofsense

Any tips on getting them take all the CTC powder? I've a nice bit left in the trough

endainoz

ABitofsense wrote: »

Any tips on getting them take all the CTC powder? I've a nice bit left in the trough

When I used to use it, I found at the start theyed have a good bit left after them but they get used to it. I mixed mine well with nuts to get them used to it. A small bit of seaweed meal made it a bit more palatable for them.

jntsnk

ABitofsense wrote: »

Any tips on getting them take all the CTC powder? I've a nice bit left in the trough

I used the cereal ration not the nut. Mixed the CTC in the ration very well with buckets and a good size half barrel, so it was well incorporated in the feed before feeding . I had no success just putting the CTC over the ration in the troughs.
You could also increase the ration amount and trying feeding twice a day and put it directly into the troughs , as less would be in the ration at one time.
I preferred the premixing as I was sure it was properly mixed in.

_Brian

We split ration twice a day and sprinkle over.
Troughs licked clean every time. Some appetite on them with the ctc.

keepalive213

Housed 18 month old heifers 20 days ago, never had more hassle.
Projectile scour, watery eyes, bit of coughing, stiff looking gaits, intermittent snotty noses... Vet coming in the morning.
Same housing system last 4 years with no hassle, and no new animals in since spring, cant undstand it.

cacs

keepalive213 wrote: »

Housed 18 month old heifers 20 days ago, never had more hassle.
Projectile scour, watery eyes, bit of coughing, stiff looking gaits, intermittent snotty noses... Vet coming in the morning.
Same housing system last 4 years with no hassle, and no new animals in since spring, cant undstand it.

Scour is more than likely the change of feed etc. Keep an eye out for coccidiosis.

_Brian

Periods like yesterday and last night where it’s suddenly mild are hard on recently housed stock.
Poorly ventilated housing (our own included) get very humid.

orm0nd

_Brian wrote: »

Periods like yesterday and last night where it’s suddenly mild are hard on recently housed stock.
Poorly ventilated housing (our own included) get very humid.

Clipping backs and necks helps , but you are correct stock need good ventilation and fresh air flow

Neo Sanders

keepalive213 wrote: »

Housed 18 month old heifers 20 days ago, never had more hassle.
Projectile scour, watery eyes, bit of coughing, stiff looking gaits, intermittent snotty noses... Vet coming in the morning.
Same housing system last 4 years with no hassle, and no new animals in since spring, cant undstand it.

sorry to hear that, it can be a real trying time when things go against you like this.... we've all been there at some stage. the trick is to get help (i.e the vet), get to the bottom of it. Do your best to cure the affected animals and then take whatever action is required to prevent it happening again.

When you find out whats going on, would you mind posting here the outcome, so that we can all learn from it.

At the moment I'm in the process of replacing side sheeting on a shed with yorkshire boarding to improve air flow in the shed. I've also undertaken a whole herd pneumonia vaccination program. I had a big outbreak last winter.

So far so good this year, and the current weather is a big tester.... so it seems the changes I've made are working.

keepalive213

Neo Sanders wrote: »

sorry to hear that, it can be a real trying time when things go against you like this.... we've all been there at some stage. the trick is to get help (i.e the vet), get to the bottom of it. Do your best to cure the affected animals and then take whatever action is required to prevent it happening again.

When you find out whats going on, would you mind posting here the outcome, so that we can all learn from it.

At the moment I'm in the process of replacing side sheeting on a shed with yorkshire boarding to improve air flow in the shed. I've also undertaken a whole herd pneumonia vaccination program. I had a big outbreak last winter.

So far so good this year, and the current weather is a big tester.... so it seems the changes I've made are working.

By this morning most of the group were scouring real watery.
The vet said an infection, recommended a long lasting antibiotic and we did the whole group. Not sure what the injection was, worked out about a tenner each plus call out obviously.
He looked at the silage, said the shed was grand. Said give them hay or straw for a few days and they should come right.

minerleague

keepalive213 wrote: »

By this morning most of the group were scouring real watery.
The vet said an infection, recommended a long lasting antibiotic and we did the whole group. Not sure what the injection was, worked out about a tenner each plus call out obviously.
He looked at the silage, said the shed was grand. Said give them hay or straw for a few days and they should come right.

Hard to know without seeing cattle but this sounds like madness to me, I've never seen a situation where an entire bunch of cattle would be given antibiotics. Think myself vets think they have to be seen to DO SOMTHING. Your last sentence sounds more like would be done here.

keepalive213

minerleague wrote: »

Hard to know without seeing cattle but this sounds like madness to me, I've never seen a situation where an entire bunch of cattle would be given antibiotics. Think myself vets think they have to be seen to DO SOMTHING. Your last sentence sounds more like would be done here.

7 out of a group of 9 are showing symptoms, no conspiracy theories here chief.

greysides

Base price wrote: »

We have used CTC successfully to treat calves/weanlings over the years but we remove those animals from the others for treatment. IMO Vets selling CTC are complacent in its overuse. They don't advise farmers to seperate affected animals from the rest of the herd and feed it individually at 20grms/100kgs. It's easier to shake a few fist fulls onto the meal and feed to all.

It would be easier to inject those few surely? The purpose of CTC powder IS mass treatment where needed. That being where enough animals in the group are affected that it makes sense to do them all. Better to mass treat with a less critically important antibiotic than to eventually have to treat a majority of them with antibiotics that are rated as more critically important.

I think the biggest problem with mass medication is where it is used in advance of disease being present (prophylaxis) rather than to limit the spread of disease which is already present (metaphylaxis). Basically, pig industry v. cattle industry.

Base price

greysides wrote: »

It would be easier to inject those few surely? The purpose of CTC powder IS mass treatment where needed. That being where enough animals in the group are affected that it makes sense to do them all. Better to mass treat with a less critically important antibiotic than to eventually have to treat a majority of them with antibiotics that are rated as more critically important.

I think the biggest problem with mass medication is where it is used in advance of disease being present (prophylaxis) rather than to limit the spread of disease which is already present (metaphylaxis). Basically, pig industry v. cattle industry.

Do you not think that by mass treating a group some of which may not have any symptoms leads to antibiotic resistance. CTC should only be used for calves up to 6months of age. It isn't that difficult to remove susceptible calves from a group and treat accordingly. Good husbandry would recommend that course of action anyway.

Also blanket use (pig industry) is one of the reasons that such products are to be further restricted in the future.

greysides

If there's a few animals sick in the group, the rest will have been exposed and many will have temperatures just not showing signs yet. The CTC powder cuts the outbreak short. By and large.

Tig98

Id take it as a sign of stress, they'll be fine if you just watch them. We weaned the calves from the cows in the shed and after a few days they were the same as your own, we let them back under the cows for one night and separated them again. No problems after that

Base price

greysides wrote: »

If there's a few animals sick in the group, the rest will have been exposed and many will have temperatures just not showing signs yet. The CTC powder cuts the outbreak short. By and large.

We don't (thankfully) have mass outbreaks in our bought in calves due to vaccination. We could have up to 90 calves in the one shed at anytime.

At the end of the day, vaccination is the key to preventing blanket use of products like CTC powder and therefore probably reducing antibiotic resistance.

greysides

Base price wrote: »

At the end of the day, vaccination is the key to preventing blanket use of products like CTC powder and therefore probably reducing antibiotic resistance.

Absolutely and slowly farmers are coming round to that. The arguments in favour of it ring true better for the younger 'Green Cert' generation. There will always be a need for fire-brigade action and CTC powder has its place there. It is cheaper and less stressful on a group of sick calves than long-acting injections. Some of which are painful. Some of which are eye-wateringly expensive.

funkey_monkey

Had couple with laboured breathing and snot. Vet said only to give treatment to those showing it.
Ketink & Cadorex.

Lime Tree Farm

Nothing cheap about CTC, only ever bought 2 red tubs of it years ago for bought in weanlings, and the CTC cost €120 per tub

greysides

Lime Tree Farm wrote: »

Nothing cheap about CTC, only every bought 2 red tubs of it years ago for bought in weanlings, and the CTC cost €120 per tub

Perhaps, my price comparison was done a few years ago. We were able to get sacks of it then and could dole out the amount needed. Price of a tub may vary with practice too.

Base price

I got a 1kg bag from our Vet earlier on this year and I think it was €12.

Lime Tree Farm

Looked up the receipts, Dec 2010 - 4 kg 15% Respichlor @ €69 a kg. Obviously didn't learn any lessons, purchased 1 kg only @€;69 the following October 2011. I just remember it was the price that put me off not the efficacy.

grassroot1

Maybe a stupid question do you think sometimes at housing cattle can go "off Form" the same as humans "bit of a dose on me" sort of thing like ourselves time heals them without the need for an antibiotic?

_Brian

grassroot1 wrote: »

Maybe a stupid question do you think sometimes at housing cattle can go "off Form" the same as humans "bit of a dose on me" sort of thing like ourselves time heals them without the need for an antibiotic?

I’ve definitely read that it can take a week for the new diet to become regular for them. So I imagine for some this could be enough to set them back.

greysides

grassroot1 wrote: »

Maybe a stupid question do you think sometimes at housing cattle can go "off Form" the same as humans "bit of a dose on me" sort of thing like ourselves time heals them without the need for an antibiotic?

There's quite a number of infectious agents that can affect cattle by causing respiratory infections. The common ones most people are aware of are: RSV (Respiratory Syncytial Virus), PI3 (Parainfluenza virus 3), IBR (Infectious Bovine Rhinotracheitis Virus) in the virus section; Pasteurella multocida, Mannheimia haemolytica and endemic Mycoplasmae in the bacterial arena. Less common would be Histophilus somni, recently introduced strains of the virulent Mycoplasma bovis. Less common viruses would include Rhinoviruses, Adenoviruses, Coronavirus strains, maybe still BVDV. There could well be more viruses.

We have vaccines for the ones in bold script. Histophilus somni is in red as while there is a vaccine, it is not commonly vaccinated for.

The others not in bold are less important causes and cause minor disease. Some of the 'trivial' infections at housing could be these or they could be infections of the more common causes in animals that are partially immune due to prior exposure.

In treating animals, remember that antibiotics can only affect bacteria. We all 'know' this, but it seems to be forgotten when that knowledge needs to be applied to real life. There's only so-much that any antibiotic can do. Anti-inflammatories enter where antibiotics leave off. They will help, even with pure viral infections. They are becoming recognised as vital to the quicker and more complete 'cure' of an animal. The rationale for the use of antibiotics is that infections rarely stay as just viral problems without bacterial party-crashing the event. The animal ultimately has to cure itself of viral infections, but it will find it easier to do so without having to cope with bacteria at the same time.

Contributing to the disease complex is stress. Stressors include weaning, changes of feed, variation in ambient temperature and humidity, weather and concurrent parasitic lung infections.


Stolen from Zoetis:

The key to preventing respiratory disease is to reduce stress and to vaccinate against viruses and bacteria that cause disease.

Vaccination with biological products targeting the viral and bacterial pathogens.
Appropriate use of antibiotics labeled for control of BRD
Good cattle handling and stress reduction

Minimize exposure to environmental conditions that contribute to disease, such as dust, crowding, fumes (proper ventilation is a key - especially with dairy facilities).
Provide adequate rest, feed and water (especially after shipping).
Make sure animals receive adequate levels of essential nutrients such as vitamins and minerals.
Nutritional soundness also helps prevent disease and improves immune function.
Handle animals with care. Use low stress handling techniques.
Reduce and/or minimize pen movements.
Make sure bedding is clean and dry .
Keep animals as clean and dry as possible.
Avoid overcrowding.
Maintain good housing and ventilation.
Minimize heat stress.
Make sure animals receive the right deworming program in areas affected by lungworm.
Effective colostrum management