Weanlings with snots and slight cough

lab man

Hi lass I've bucket weanlings here with snots and a slight cough I've given 2 shots of bovipest second run was first sat in october I thought with the price of the injection I'd be finished with this problem have ye any recommendations wat to do they are in 2 weeks now

Mooooo

Have they been dosed? Bovipast is a vaccine, if they have a cough due to a virus it would be too late for the vaccine so an anti inflammatory and possibly an antibiotic is what would be needed to clear it. Talk to your vet if in doubt

orm0nd

as long as they're eating and don't have a raised temp I'd let them work away and watch closely , ( no doubt other will tell you to pump them with a cocktail of antibiotics )

housed ours last friday and have a few with similar symptoms ,

White Clover

lab man wrote: »

Hi lass I've bucket weanlings here with snots and a slight cough I've given 2 shots of bovipest second run was first sat in october I thought with the price of the injection I'd be finished with this problem have ye any recommendations wat to do they are in 2 weeks now

Had similar symptoms here with weanlings a few years ago. A few buckets of Crystalyx easy breather buckets sorted it.

lab man

White Clover wrote: »

Had similar symptoms here with weanlings a few years ago. A few buckets of Crystalyx easy breather buckets sorted it.

I've used that before thought twas not much good to be honest

lab man

Mooooo wrote: »

Have they been dosed? Bovipast is a vaccine, if they have a cough due to a virus it would be too late for the vaccine so an anti inflammatory and possibly an antibiotic is what would be needed to clear it. Talk to your vet if in doubt

Ya they have been dosed they got 70 ml of a white dose in june and august plus 8 ml of bimectin plus there last week of august I think I'll give them a shot of bimectin plus again weather every mild by day here a d frost by night might not help I suppose

whelan2

Did you ask your vet? Bovipast wont cover them for ibr. That's a separate vaccine. I lost a few about 6 weeks ago with pneumonia. We threw the book at them. Normally wouldn't lose any with pneumonia

omicron

Bimectins active ingredient for worms is ivermectin, same as many other drugs, which is cleared out of the body in a few days and a new parent lungworm infection could be present within 3 weeks, so a worm dose given 10 weeks ago in what has been a fairly bad year for lungworm is unlikely to be sufficient. It would be advisable to take faecal samples from the coughing animals and pool them and get faecal analysis done to see are there eggs, although even if not I'd still advise dosing them again as there can be gaps in eggs coming through.

orm0nd

whelan2 wrote: »

Did you ask your vet? Bovipast wont cover them for ibr. That's a separate vaccine. I lost a few about 6 weeks ago with pneumonia. We threw the book at them. Normally wouldn't lose any with pneumonia

did you get a pm done ?

SuperTeeJay

Ctc/respichlor mixed in the meal for a week will sort them out..

whelan2

orm0nd wrote: »

did you get a pm done ?

Vet was out a few times. We had dosed them with a white dose and vet reckoned they couldn't deal with the coughing up of the old worms. They had been done with bovipast. I dosed another batch with pour on and they were fine. Draxxin, steroids , betamox and multimin to the worst ones. Sickner

FeelTheBern

I’d start them on the antibiotic powder. Had weanlings the same way here last week. Kept an eye on them for few days then two of them got worse - ended up treating those two for few days, injecting lot of them with long acting and putting them all on the powder. Once they get a bit sick harder to get them to take to the powder as well.

cacs

lab man wrote: »

Hi lass I've bucket weanlings here with snots and a slight cough I've given 2 shots of bovipest second run was first sat in october I thought with the price of the injection I'd be finished with this problem have ye any recommendations wat to do they are in 2 weeks now

Every year for the last 5 years we have had either a few cases of phenomena in the weanlings or like last year all weanlings got it and nearly lost a few. This year I swore no way. My vet advised me keep lungs clear from worms. Ibr vaccine early September bovilis rsp vaccine six weeks apart last round two weeks before housing. After housing They all got a cough and white snorts on their noses I went straight into the vet he said watch for poor feeders and observe and wait. They all got out no intervention with antibiotics. I never really signed up to vaccines this year I am a 100% convert. Last year it cost €35/ per head with S**t load of grief to treat with antibiotics. Never ever again.

adne

Ctc powder mixed through the meal for a few days is a good

cacs

adne wrote: »

Ctc powder mixed through the meal for a few days is a good

Ctc is excellent and I nearly always had good results but it’s going to be banned soon.

jntsnk

Had the same. Vet prescribed CTC powder into feed

orm0nd

cacs wrote: »

Every year for the last 5 years we have had either a few cases of phenomena in the weanlings or like last year all weanlings got it and nearly lost a few. This year I swore no way. My vet advised me keep lungs clear from worms. Ibr vaccine early September bovilis rsp vaccine six weeks apart last round two weeks before housing. After housing They all got a cough and white snorts on their noses I went straight into the vet he said watch for poor feeders and observe and wait. They all got out no intervention with antibiotics. I never really signed up to vaccines this year I am a 100% convert. Last year it cost €35/ per head with S**t load of grief to treat with antibiotics. Never ever again.

TG there's at least 1 other poster that has similar approach to my self

A vet who I learned a lot from told me that ibr and salmonella causes a lot more underlined problems that people imagine , ibr can lie dormant in a herd for years and never cause issues and if animals get hoose or pneumonia or come under stress for any reason it kicks off

It can spread like wildfire especially if housed

we use ibr live here and the herd health has completely improved , little or no pneumonia , better fertility, less dosing, antibiotics, vets fees and knackery visits

most of us completed a sprayer course in the past, I think it should also be compulsory for people to do a course on proper dosing, vaccination, etc
IMO it would make more sense that some of the bullsh1t in the quality assurance scheme,

we had a couple of weanlings similar to op, all bar 1 are better this morning she is up and eating still very snotty

I not advising people to neglect the symptoms, if your stock need treatment they do, but find out why they need and try to avoid that scenario in the future ,

jntsnk

orm0nd wrote: »

TG there's at least 1 other poster that has similar approach to my self

A vet who I learned a lot from told me that ibr and salmonella causes a lot more underlined problems that people imagine , ibr can lie dormant in a herd for years and never cause issues and if animals get hoose or pneumonia or come under stress for any reason it kicks off

It can spread like wildfire especially if housed

we use ibr live here and the herd health has completely improved , little or no pneumonia , better fertility, less dosing, antibiotics, vets fees and knackery visits

most of us completed a sprayer course in the past, I think it should also be compulsory for people to do a course on proper dosing, vaccination, etc
IMO it would make more sense that some of the bullsh1t in the quality assurance scheme,

we had a couple of weanlings similar to op, all bar 1 are better this morning she is up and eating still very snotty

I not advising people to neglect the symptoms, if your stock need treatment they do, but find out why they need and try to avoid that scenario in the future ,

Great idea. Just on another note , last year I started weighing some of the animals prior to dosing and was surprised how miscalculating I was of weights and was underdosing , which could be leading to resistance as well as effectiveness of the worm dose product.

_Brian

Had to get some ctc for some coughing smalls today.
Get was saying they are out the door with respiratory problems at the moment.

Ran everything across the scales to get a baseline for the winter.

DukeCaboom

Done all our weanlings during the week with zelleris. Not sick but coughing away. There all up to date with vaccinations & dose, even done a dung sample to be sure. They've freshened a good bit since.

Neo Sanders

orm0nd wrote: »

TG there's at least 1 other poster that has similar approach to my self

A vet who I learned a lot from told me that ibr and salmonella causes a lot more underlined problems that people imagine , ibr can lie dormant in a herd for years and never cause issues and if animals get hoose or pneumonia or come under stress for any reason it kicks off

It can spread like wildfire especially if housed

we use ibr live here and the herd health has completely improved , little or no pneumonia , better fertility, less dosing, antibiotics, vets fees and knackery visits

most of us completed a sprayer course in the past, I think it should also be compulsory for people to do a course on proper dosing, vaccination, etc
IMO it would make more sense that some of the bullsh1t in the quality assurance scheme,

we had a couple of weanlings similar to op, all bar 1 are better this morning she is up and eating still very snotty

I not advising people to neglect the symptoms, if your stock need treatment they do, but find out why they need and try to avoid that scenario in the future ,

Great point regarding education on dosing and vaccination. The other big factor is proper ventilation in sheds.
This is also a big factor. We are all used to our own set up and often don't see the flaws. A lot of vets aren't that good at identifying where a shed isn't properly ventilated and how to correct it where it's inadequate.

patsy_mccabe

Draughts are just as bad as poor ventilation.

Neo Sanders

patsy_mccabe wrote: »

Draughts are just as bad as poor ventilation.

True, by poor ventilation, I meant lack of fresh clean air at one end of the scale and draughts at the other end of the scale.

It can be hard to get right, as I've learned through experience. Every site and shed is different

Mooooo

Talking to vets a lot of it is happening with the last month or so with stock still outside. Rsv and pi3 type viruses. Both batches were got coughs, still grubbing fine and not losing condition but the whole lot coughing. Weather has been very variable. Ot would depend on the batch but would be very wary of getting a setback this time of year. Gave them a shot of long acting antibiotic on vets advise and noticed a difference very quick. Dosing was up to date so confident it wasn't lungworm. If it was I think they would have gone backwards as well
Will prob look at vaccinating next year vets say its fierce prevalent in herds this year

adne

cacs wrote: »

Ctc is excellent and I nearly always had good results but it’s going to be banned soon.

Why

cacs

adne wrote: »

Why

Antibiotics resistance. You end treating healthy animals who don’t need and on it goes into the food chain

Mooooo

It won't get into the food chain if withdrawal periods are followed. Administering antibiotics to those who don't need it can lead to resistance in the bacteria it's trying to treat

SuperTeeJay

Ctc is also used as a preventative for pneumonia so even if you give it to weanlings that dont have signs of pneumonia in the pen it reduces their chances of getting it off the animal that you are treating for it.
Problem is there is a lot of work involved in weaning properly...like dosing a few weeks before weaning/creep grazing ahead of the cows/feeding meal a month before weaning/taking only a few cows from the calves at a time and this year with weather so bad and ground so wet a lot of weaning was quite abrupt so this has probably led to more cases of pneumonia this autumn.
I weaan 25 every year and touchwood never have any cases but I try to do all above as best I can.Never have vaccinated either.
Only case I had was a saler heifer last year that was outwintered but she recovered fine.

lab man

Well lads I gave a la injection there friday eve and the 2 that had snots are fine again . so I dosed all the weanlings this morning thinking that they might have worms a next door neighbour done his calves the same day I did mine for bovipast and his have snots too he called the vet he has same slat house as mine. the vet said that with the slurry being low at the moment to cover the manhole at the outside as it causes a draft into the tank and up under the calves so we will wait and see I'll give ctc powder now too even tho As I said before I don't think it's great

Base price

cacs wrote: »

Ctc is excellent and I nearly always had good results but it’s going to be banned soon.

cacs wrote: »

Antibiotics resistance. You end treating healthy animals who don’t need and on it goes into the food chain

We have used CTC successfully to treat calves/weanlings over the years but we remove those animals from the others for treatment. IMO Vets selling CTC are complacent in its overuse. They don't advise farmers to seperate affected animals from the rest of the herd and feed it individually at 20grms/100kgs. It's easier to shake a few fist fulls onto the meal and feed to all.

I understand through our Vet that the largest users of CTC powder are not cattle farmers but piggeries. Apparently there is a higher concentration (15%) of Chlortetracycline in CTC powder for piggeries as opposed to the normal stuff which is 10%. Maybe/could it be why it's going to be banned?

cacs

Base price wrote: »

We have used CTC successfully to treat calves/weanlings over the years but we remove those animals from the others for treatment. IMO Vets selling CTC are complacent in its overuse. They don't advise farmers to seperate affected animals from the rest of the herd and feed it individually at 20grms/100kgs. It's easier to shake a few fist fulls onto the meal and feed to all.

I understand through our Vet that the largest users of CTC powder are not cattle farmers but piggeries. Apparently there is a higher concentration (15%) of Chlortetracycline in CTC powder for piggeries as opposed to the normal stuff which is 10%. Maybe/could it be why it's going to be banned?

Wow didn’t know that

funkey_monkey

We normally get some Nasal spray (Rispoval) for each batch of so calves we get in, but this year didn't. A couple got pneumonia and needed Draxxin which is expensive stuff.
Had to do the entire batch.
In regards to draughts, calves are fine with over head draught/ventilation. They don't like low draughts at ground level.

Base price

cacs wrote: »

Wow didn’t know that

As a matter of interest - Why?

SuperTeeJay

cacs wrote: »

Wow didn’t know that

Ctc 15% is generally only included in weaning rations in piggeries to treat pneumonia.Not in fattening rations.So with a 6/7 day withdrawal its months out of their system before slaughter.
Ctc /respichlor/chloromed15% would be the normal product.10% far less so.

orm0nd

ABitofsense

Any tips on getting them take all the CTC powder? I've a nice bit left in the trough

endainoz

ABitofsense wrote: »

Any tips on getting them take all the CTC powder? I've a nice bit left in the trough

When I used to use it, I found at the start theyed have a good bit left after them but they get used to it. I mixed mine well with nuts to get them used to it. A small bit of seaweed meal made it a bit more palatable for them.

jntsnk

ABitofsense wrote: »

Any tips on getting them take all the CTC powder? I've a nice bit left in the trough

I used the cereal ration not the nut. Mixed the CTC in the ration very well with buckets and a good size half barrel, so it was well incorporated in the feed before feeding . I had no success just putting the CTC over the ration in the troughs.
You could also increase the ration amount and trying feeding twice a day and put it directly into the troughs , as less would be in the ration at one time.
I preferred the premixing as I was sure it was properly mixed in.

_Brian

We split ration twice a day and sprinkle over.
Troughs licked clean every time. Some appetite on them with the ctc.

keepalive213

Housed 18 month old heifers 20 days ago, never had more hassle.
Projectile scour, watery eyes, bit of coughing, stiff looking gaits, intermittent snotty noses... Vet coming in the morning.
Same housing system last 4 years with no hassle, and no new animals in since spring, cant undstand it.

cacs

keepalive213 wrote: »

Housed 18 month old heifers 20 days ago, never had more hassle.
Projectile scour, watery eyes, bit of coughing, stiff looking gaits, intermittent snotty noses... Vet coming in the morning.
Same housing system last 4 years with no hassle, and no new animals in since spring, cant undstand it.

Scour is more than likely the change of feed etc. Keep an eye out for coccidiosis.

_Brian

Periods like yesterday and last night where it’s suddenly mild are hard on recently housed stock.
Poorly ventilated housing (our own included) get very humid.

orm0nd

_Brian wrote: »

Periods like yesterday and last night where it’s suddenly mild are hard on recently housed stock.
Poorly ventilated housing (our own included) get very humid.

Clipping backs and necks helps , but you are correct stock need good ventilation and fresh air flow

Neo Sanders

keepalive213 wrote: »

Housed 18 month old heifers 20 days ago, never had more hassle.
Projectile scour, watery eyes, bit of coughing, stiff looking gaits, intermittent snotty noses... Vet coming in the morning.
Same housing system last 4 years with no hassle, and no new animals in since spring, cant undstand it.

sorry to hear that, it can be a real trying time when things go against you like this.... we've all been there at some stage. the trick is to get help (i.e the vet), get to the bottom of it. Do your best to cure the affected animals and then take whatever action is required to prevent it happening again.

When you find out whats going on, would you mind posting here the outcome, so that we can all learn from it.

At the moment I'm in the process of replacing side sheeting on a shed with yorkshire boarding to improve air flow in the shed. I've also undertaken a whole herd pneumonia vaccination program. I had a big outbreak last winter.

So far so good this year, and the current weather is a big tester.... so it seems the changes I've made are working.

keepalive213

Neo Sanders wrote: »

sorry to hear that, it can be a real trying time when things go against you like this.... we've all been there at some stage. the trick is to get help (i.e the vet), get to the bottom of it. Do your best to cure the affected animals and then take whatever action is required to prevent it happening again.

When you find out whats going on, would you mind posting here the outcome, so that we can all learn from it.

At the moment I'm in the process of replacing side sheeting on a shed with yorkshire boarding to improve air flow in the shed. I've also undertaken a whole herd pneumonia vaccination program. I had a big outbreak last winter.

So far so good this year, and the current weather is a big tester.... so it seems the changes I've made are working.

By this morning most of the group were scouring real watery.
The vet said an infection, recommended a long lasting antibiotic and we did the whole group. Not sure what the injection was, worked out about a tenner each plus call out obviously.
He looked at the silage, said the shed was grand. Said give them hay or straw for a few days and they should come right.

minerleague

keepalive213 wrote: »

By this morning most of the group were scouring real watery.
The vet said an infection, recommended a long lasting antibiotic and we did the whole group. Not sure what the injection was, worked out about a tenner each plus call out obviously.
He looked at the silage, said the shed was grand. Said give them hay or straw for a few days and they should come right.

Hard to know without seeing cattle but this sounds like madness to me, I've never seen a situation where an entire bunch of cattle would be given antibiotics. Think myself vets think they have to be seen to DO SOMTHING. Your last sentence sounds more like would be done here.

keepalive213

minerleague wrote: »

Hard to know without seeing cattle but this sounds like madness to me, I've never seen a situation where an entire bunch of cattle would be given antibiotics. Think myself vets think they have to be seen to DO SOMTHING. Your last sentence sounds more like would be done here.

7 out of a group of 9 are showing symptoms, no conspiracy theories here chief.

greysides

Base price wrote: »

We have used CTC successfully to treat calves/weanlings over the years but we remove those animals from the others for treatment. IMO Vets selling CTC are complacent in its overuse. They don't advise farmers to seperate affected animals from the rest of the herd and feed it individually at 20grms/100kgs. It's easier to shake a few fist fulls onto the meal and feed to all.

It would be easier to inject those few surely? The purpose of CTC powder IS mass treatment where needed. That being where enough animals in the group are affected that it makes sense to do them all. Better to mass treat with a less critically important antibiotic than to eventually have to treat a majority of them with antibiotics that are rated as more critically important.

I think the biggest problem with mass medication is where it is used in advance of disease being present (prophylaxis) rather than to limit the spread of disease which is already present (metaphylaxis). Basically, pig industry v. cattle industry.

Base price

greysides wrote: »

It would be easier to inject those few surely? The purpose of CTC powder IS mass treatment where needed. That being where enough animals in the group are affected that it makes sense to do them all. Better to mass treat with a less critically important antibiotic than to eventually have to treat a majority of them with antibiotics that are rated as more critically important.

I think the biggest problem with mass medication is where it is used in advance of disease being present (prophylaxis) rather than to limit the spread of disease which is already present (metaphylaxis). Basically, pig industry v. cattle industry.

Do you not think that by mass treating a group some of which may not have any symptoms leads to antibiotic resistance. CTC should only be used for calves up to 6months of age. It isn't that difficult to remove susceptible calves from a group and treat accordingly. Good husbandry would recommend that course of action anyway.

Also blanket use (pig industry) is one of the reasons that such products are to be further restricted in the future.

greysides

If there's a few animals sick in the group, the rest will have been exposed and many will have temperatures just not showing signs yet. The CTC powder cuts the outbreak short. By and large.

Tig98

Id take it as a sign of stress, they'll be fine if you just watch them. We weaned the calves from the cows in the shed and after a few days they were the same as your own, we let them back under the cows for one night and separated them again. No problems after that