Cycle infrastructure planned for south Dublin

Seth Brundle

First Up wrote: »

You mean dragging up facts produced by a website that promotes itself as independent journalism covering cycling in Ireland?

Yes, shame on me.

What indy journo website says "Presumably those commuters also cycle for leisure so I think its reasonable to conclude that leisure is the dominant bike usage." about those figures

AndrewJRenko

First Up wrote: »

Well you could look it up yourself but I know you don't like facts getting in the way.

There are no figures to look up showing the percentage of leisure journeys for cyclists.

This might be a good time to stop digging.

First Up

Seth Brundle wrote: »

What indy journo website says "Presumably those commuters also cycle for leisure so I think its reasonable to conclude that leisure is the dominant bike usage." about those figures

That's my own conclusion and based on the percentage of commuters who cycle, it is a perfectly reasonable one.

But feel free to share if you have an interpretation that says most cycling is not for leisure.

First Up

AndrewJRenko wrote: »

There are no figures to look up showing the percentage of leisure journeys for cyclists.

This might be a good time to stop digging.

Good grief. You challenged my statement that most cycling is for leisure. I produced data that shows conclusively that it is and you tell me to stop digging?

Seaswimmer

silverharp wrote: »

Comparing Blackrock to Sandymount would suggest blocking off the Green and the village to traffic and seeing the Strand road as the "bypass". I'd be on for that. It would open up space for proper outside dining etc.

That is an excellent idea.. It would create a village atmosphere while also providing relatively quiet roads for cycling. Although I am sure you will get the " I cant drive and park right outside Tesco anymore" objections.
And where would we go when Strand Road is busy if we cant rat run through the village anymore..

I think the really sad part about all this is as numerous people have pointed out....It was only going to be a trial. if it dosent work out then go back to the original layout and think about another plan. But now we will never know.
All objectors should really go from Blackrock to Sandycove and back on a bike and then see what they could have.

tomasrojo

CramCycle wrote: »

I would have thought that the majority of cyclists in the city centre on any given weekday are unlikely to be leisure cyclists in any meaningful fashion, they will, in the majority be commuters (work, university, school), shoppers and people actually working.

Oh yeah, I can understand the treating the cyclists in Dublin as largely non-leisure (though there are also tourists on hire bikes, for example), but commuters going into the city centre are not the only non-leisure cyclists was the train of thought I was following. I've often worked outside the city centre and cycled there. I collect the kids from school in the afternoon, and that's not in the city centre, or peak travel time.

I don't really see the logic of the original claim.

ted1

First Up wrote: »

True, I am extrapolating but from solid data. For example IrishCycle.com shows that the percentage of daily commuters who "mainly" cycle is 7.6% in Dublin City, 5.8% in Dun Laoghaire-Rathdown and 7.5% in Blackrock. Presumably those commuters also cycle for leisure so I think its reasonable to conclude that leisure is the dominant bike usage.

No, because those 7.6% make ten journeys a week. Where as the leisure cyclists may make only 1. So commuters make up the biggest users.

“Mainly ‘ is also used. I know people that drive 3 days and cycle 2 days. So they don’t show up, as they are classed as drivers

tomasrojo

ted1 wrote: »

No, because those 7.6% make ten journeys a week. Where as the leisure cyclists may make only 1. So commuters make up the biggest users.

“Mainly ‘ is also used. I know people that drive 3 days and cycle 2 days. So they don’t show up, as they are classed as drivers

Yeah, if you commute daily (and commuting as I said already is not the only non-leisure cycling activity), you probably clock up an average of five hours a week cycling commuting. Club cyclists I guess can do more than five hours a week cycling at the weekend, but most cyclists aren't in clubs.

I clock up about twenty hours a week cycling, and close to zero of that is leisure in a typical week.

tomasrojo

Also if I cycle into town to watch a film or go to the pub or to buy something that isn't food or clothing, is that a leisure trip? Or is a leisure trip when the cycling trip itself is the pastime, rather than the means of getting to the pastime?

First Up

First Up wrote: »

Good grief. You challenged my statement that most cycling is for leisure. I produced data that shows conclusively that it is and you tell me to stop digging?

Actually you produced a figure showing one thing and you made a guess off that.

Your guess has no basis in reality and can not be backed up by any raw data. If it could you would link to actual data.

Using your logic, would this statement be deemed accurate or just plain stupid: "drivers who drive outside of rush hour are leisure drivers"

CramCycle

Before joining a club a few years ago, 100% of my cycling was functional, I worked odd hours as I had two jobs but very little of it would have been at traditional commuter times. I cycled to the shops, to the pub, to the cinema. Most of my friends at that age done the same or went by DB or taxi, only a few drove daily. I probably cleared 50km a day without issue. Most of the cyclists I meet on my commute now and then are clearly on their way to or from work or a social gathering, although the latter might make it leisure cycling. Like Tomasrojo, I am confused as to whether leisure cycling in this context is that the cycle is the primary activity or does it also include cycling to a leisure activity. If its the former I would estimate based on observations of 20 years cycling in Dublin, nearly all of it in the very areas being discussed that very little is leisure cycling.

Peregrine

First Up wrote: »

True, I am extrapolating but from solid data. For example IrishCycle.com shows that the percentage of daily commuters who "mainly" cycle is 7.6% in Dublin City, 5.8% in Dun Laoghaire-Rathdown and 7.5% in Blackrock. Presumably those commuters also cycle for leisure so I think its reasonable to conclude that leisure is the dominant bike usage.

That's not extrapolating from solid data. That's called making stuff up from solid data.

Kaisr Sose

Same cycleway infastructure featuring on Nationwide now

secman

A piece on Nationwide now

AndrewJRenko

First Up wrote: »

Good grief. You challenged my statement that most cycling is for leisure. I produced data that shows conclusively that it is and you tell me to stop digging?

The data you used tells you diddly squat about the purpose of the cyclist journeys.

You made it up.

I wonder if this tweet is for you?

https://twitter.com/yascaoimhin/status/1366440708710821888?s=19

buffalo

First Up wrote: »

Most cycling along Strand Rd is (and will be) a leisure activity. That's what the cycle path is intended to encourage and facilitate.

It will replace some sitting on couches but not many necessary car journeys. It will just divert them.

How many of these are leisure cyclists? And while we're on the topic, how many are leisure walkers?

https://twitter.com/robertburns73/status/1366047421931864076

First Up

tomasrojo wrote:

I don't really see the logic of the original claim.

The Strand Rd section is part of a cycle route from Sutton to Sandycove. Looking at the map, does that strike you as a route for many people going to work?

Seth Brundle

First Up wrote: »

The Strand Rd section is part of a cycle route from Sutton to Sandycove. Looking at the map, does that strike you as a route for many people going to work?

Are people only allowed to cycle the entire length or not at all?

(At least try come up with a plausible argument rather than the ill-informed nonsense you've been posting all day)

Fighting Tao

First Up wrote: »

The Strand Rd section is part of a cycle route from Sutton to Sandycove. Looking at the map, does that strike you as a route for many people going to work?

Have we moved the goals yet again???

First Up

Seth Brundle wrote:

Are people only allowed to cycle the entire length or not at all?

I asked which parts of that route will facilitate commuters.

Seth Brundle

First Up wrote: »

I asked which parts of that route will facilitate commuters.

It's a pretty daft question!

Fighting Tao

First Up wrote: »

I asked which parts of that route will facilitate commuters.

This is getting weirder. Where do you think commuters go? Do you think they all work in the same building in the city centre? Can they not work in 10,000’s of different buildings all around the city and only use the bits of cycling infrastructure when required?

buffalo

Seth Brundle wrote: »

It's a pretty daft question!

Well, we did build the M50 for all the airport workers who live in Shankill, right?

Fighting Tao

buffalo wrote: »

Well, we did build the M50 for all the airport workers who live in Shankill, right?

Airport workers are no longer allowed to use it since it was extended to Dublin port. Only dockers living in Shankill are now permitted to travel on it.

MangleBadger

I used to commute from Dun Laoghaire into town. I think if the cycle way was in place I’d rather cycle the extra couple of K along the strand than along Merrion Road as it would be a far more enjoyable spin.

Dowee

MangleBadger wrote: »

I used to commute from Dun Laoghaire into town. I think if the cycle way was in place I’d rather cycle the extra couple of K along the strand than along Merrion Road as it would be a far more enjoyable spin.

If you're going to enjoy it that makes it a leisure spin, not a commute. There are rules!! :mad:

First Up

Fighting Tao wrote:

This is getting weirder. Where do you think commuters go? Do you think they all work in the same building in the city centre? Can they not work in 10,000’s of different buildings all around the city and only use the bits of cycling infrastructure when required?

OK, I'll try again.

Which parts of the Sutton to Sandycove cycling route will result in enough commuters leaving their cars at home to justify diverting motorised traffic off a widely used route into a quiet village with narrow streets?

Fighting Tao

First Up wrote: »

OK, I'll try again.

Which parts of the Sutton to Sandycove cycling route will result in enough commuters leaving their cars at home to justify diverting motorised traffic off a widely used route into a quiet village with narrow streets?

Why are you so focused on commuters? People shopping aren’t commuters. Neither are those cycling to school etc.

All high quality cycling infrastructure encourages people to cycle rather than drive.

First Up

Fighting Tao wrote:

Why are you so focused on commuters? People shopping aren’t commuters. Neither are those cycling to school etc.

True, although not many carry their shopping home on bicycles and I'm not sure many parents will be happy for their children to cycle to school on the roads not on the cycle way.

Fighting Tao wrote:

All high quality cycling infrastructure encourages people to cycle rather than drive.

Which is great, if it takes them where they need to go. Anywhere is good for a spin on a Sunday afternoon but Monday morning is a bit trickier.

Fighting Tao

First Up wrote: »

True, although not many carry their shopping home on bicycles and I'm not sure many parents will be happy for their children to cycle to school on the roads not on the cycle way.


Which is great, if it takes them where they need to go. Anywhere is good for a spin on a Sunday afternoon but Monday morning is a bit trickier.

You are right. Every road in the country (with 2 or more lanes) should have a vehicular traffic lane changed to a 2 way cycle track.

Although, your Monday morning point is a bit odd. Take a trip out to clontarf, or even to Dun laoghaire and you’ll see people of all ages, and reasons cycling on the cycle track.