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minimum alarm standards for 3-4 non restricted firearms

  • 29-10-2020 7:38pm
    #1
    Registered Users Posts: 1,005 ✭✭✭ Zxthinger


    Hi All
    I'm in bother. I have new firearm coming and only realised that the 3 or more guns puts you in the alarm category.

    What the minimum standard one can pass on. Will wireless units pass muster with AGS.


Comments

  • Registered Users Posts: 1,805 ✭✭✭ juice1304


    Zxthinger wrote: »
    Hi All
    I'm in bother. I have new firearm coming and only realised that the 3 or more guns puts you in the alarm category.

    What the minimum standard one can pass on. Will wireless units pass muster with AGS.

    It has to be installed by someone approved by them from what i remember.


  • Registered Users Posts: 2,452 ✭✭✭ wexfordman2


    Zxthinger wrote: »
    Hi All
    I'm in bother. I have new firearm coming and only realised that the 3 or more guns puts you in the alarm category.

    What the minimum standard one can pass on. Will wireless units pass muster with AGS.

    It's over 3, is it not ?


  • Registered Users Posts: 971 ✭✭✭ Peppa Cig


    Two restricted firearms, or more than three non-restricted firearms.

    Each firearm shall be stored in a gun safe which complies with BS 7558 and which shall be securely fixed to a solid structure.The place in which the firearms are stored shall have an alarm fitted and the external doors to the place shall be fitted with locks which comply with BS 3621.




    After that it is whatever Super may specify.


  • Registered Users Posts: 191 ✭✭ Heavy handed


    Nearly sure it’s over 3. Have 3 myself for several years or more and was asked anything about an alarm or getting one installed.


  • Registered Users Posts: 310 ✭✭ no_4


    I think the FCA1 form has the relevant standard it’s an IS standard from memory if you google the number it will show you what you need


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  • Registered Users Posts: 971 ✭✭✭ Peppa Cig




  • Registered Users Posts: 1,005 ✭✭✭ Zxthinger


    Thanks everyone. The officer on the phone told me that once I had three non-restricted guns then I needed an alarm..


  • Registered Users Posts: 83 ✭✭ LONG DRAG


    Zxthinger wrote: »
    Thanks everyone. The officer on the phone told me that once I had three non-restricted guns then I needed an alarm..

    It's over 3 ? You only have 3, not 4.


  • Registered Users Posts: 698 ✭✭✭ Uinseann_16


    I have 5 firearms all non restricted i installed a alarm system myself from ebay that can send me alerts via an app and GSM sim
    Crime prevention officer was happy out with it :pac:


  • Registered Users Posts: 1,005 ✭✭✭ Zxthinger


    Any idea on they make model of that alarm?


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  • Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 27,534 Mod ✭✭✭✭ Cass


    Lads just a reminder. The SI for secure storage only lists the MINIMUM requirements.

    Meaning the details listed in the SI are what you must have at a minimum in order to apply for requisite number of firearm(s).

    The Super can at any point demand level three for a single shotgun, level four for two unrestricted rifles, or any combination you care to think off. I've only heard of a handful of lads with high security levels for relatively low number of unrestricted firearms and they were due to living in high crime areas, isolated areas, and one lad having his home broken into a number of times previously.

    Essentially whatever they ask for must be done. You cannot cite level four being too excessive for say four unrestricted firearms as level three is the bare minimum.

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    If you see a problem post use the report post function, "FLAG" & let a Moderator deal with it.


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  • Registered Users Posts: 800 ✭✭✭ Wadi14


    I have to agree with Cass on this one, before I purchased my 3rd non restricted firearm a pistol I rang the Supers office to check would he have any problems with a pistol as I knew no one in my area had a pistol licensed, I was asked to put in an alarm where the pistol would be stored, I bought a diy house alarm non monitored and fitted myself.
    The storage guidelines are just that guidelines.

    If you ring your main station and ask to be put through to the District office you can talk to the person that completes the paper work before handing it to the Super, explain what you wish to do and what requirements the Super wants not what the local Garda who probably doesn't know the regulations wants.


  • Registered Users Posts: 1,005 ✭✭✭ Zxthinger


    While I appreciate the idea of doing what best and making sure that your efforts are pre approved, I must still ask what's the min anoint of sensors you'd need to declare a property as protected?

    A PIR will catch them in the hall and off goes the alarm. Do you simply put a sensor on the front, back doors and a PIR and a siren out front.

    Do you put sensors on all the upstairs window? Are burglers going to really going to using ladder?

    In theory two PIR sensors would cover you! One at the top of the stairs and the other at the bottom

    Is there rules on what suffices for "the place must have an alarm fitted"
    The place could mean the room, the wardrobe?

    Any practical guidance? Thanks
    Yes see the FO and buy an alarm to suit standard.. but...£$€$€


  • Registered Users Posts: 14,330 ✭✭✭✭ Grizzly 45


    So long as the room where you have the gun cabinet is covered by a PIR and window sensor,if any,they are happy enough.
    Where the rest of them goes is up to you and the alarm company.

    Confucius say."He who says one man cannot change World. Never has eaten bat soup in Wuhan!"



  • Registered Users Posts: 800 ✭✭✭ Wadi14


    Its not the FO who decides what you need its the Super so take with a pinch of salt what any FO said re requirements for security. FO job is to process the paper work not make decisions on your application.
    So it will depend on what requirements you have to meet, if it doesn't need to be monitored a simple DIY system will suffice maybe the external doors and safe door and a couple of sensors.
    But then you have to ask yourself are you happy with your security, is a cheap diy system up to the job or do I really need to spend more for my own peace of mind. So as for the question how much will it cost that is up to you.


  • Registered Users Posts: 1,005 ✭✭✭ Zxthinger


    So the FO called to night. He said that all alarms have to be fitted by a professional!!
    I said, yer dead right.. if your in the final security catogary.
    I told him to check it out and come back to me as I have an alarm on order.

    The alarm will be with me tomorrow, so I'll fit it and let him examine it, at least then he can make a full appraisal..

    Has anyone else heard that alarms need to fitted by registered installers?


  • Registered Users Posts: 698 ✭✭✭ Uinseann_16


    Zxthinger wrote: »
    So the FO called to night. He said that all alarms have to be fitted by a professional!!
    I said, yer dead right.. if your in the final security catogary.
    I told him to check it out and come back to me as I have an alarm on order.

    The alarm will be with me tomorrow, so I'll fit it and let him examine it, at least then he can make a full appraisal..

    Has anyone else heard that alarms need to fitted by registered installers?

    It was the crime prevention officer who's job it was to inspect premises etc who told me my alarm was perfect , The "FO" isn't even a real position


  • Registered Users Posts: 800 ✭✭✭ Wadi14


    If you are using an electrician to fit your alarm he has to be registered to NSAI if you are using and electrician to fit your alarm who is not a member of NSAI he can't be paid for the service as he is not registered to NSAI.
    I fitted my own.

    The thing that the NSAI want people to believe is, and it seems to be working is that you have to pay one of their members to fit your alarms, now in saying that any company fitting alarms and not registered are committing and offence.

    As I mentioned earlier its the Super who will decide what security levels he wants in your storage of firearms.
    I have to agree with Uinseann_16 the CPO will inspect and he reports back to the Super


  • Registered Users Posts: 10,177 ✭✭✭✭ BattleCorp


    Zxthinger wrote: »
    So the FO called to night. He said that all alarms have to be fitted by a professional!!
    I said, yer dead right.. if your in the final security catogary.
    I told him to check it out and come back to me as I have an alarm on order.

    The alarm will be with me tomorrow, so I'll fit it and let him examine it, at least then he can make a full appraisal..

    Has anyone else heard that alarms need to fitted by registered installers?

    Not sure about you fitting it yourself but it's certainly illegal for a company to install the alarm if they don't have Private Security Authority Contractor Licence.

    There have been several prosecutions for it, below is the most recent that I could find.
    Prima Security Limited t/a Secure Watch with a registered address of 29 St. Malachy's Drive, Greenhills,Dublin 12 was found guilty of illegally installing an Intruder Alarm system at the Dublin District Court. Judge Conal Gibbons convicted Prima Security Limited of breaching the Private Security Services Acts and fines were imposed on the company.

    The prosecution was taken by the Private Security Authority on foot of evidence that the company had installed an Intruder Alarm without holding a Private Security Authority Contractor Licence. The installation took place at a domestic residence in the Dublin 12 area. The prosecution followed an investigation by an Inspector of the Authority into the provision of unlicensed security services.


  • Registered Users Posts: 1,005 ✭✭✭ Zxthinger


    In terms of the SI.
    It's either an alarm or a monitored alarm. I cant see how AGS can start pulling industrial based legislation and fitting it to an alarm.. pardon the pun.
    I suppose they can just turn around a state that this is there minimum security threshold but the application states that I have complied with the si storage rules,?


    I'll have to have a face to face with them.


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  • Registered Users Posts: 1,005 ✭✭✭ Zxthinger


    I just got a call to say that diy installation is permitted. So that me good to go.


  • Registered Users Posts: 1,005 ✭✭✭ Zxthinger


    Thanks for all the sound advice.. i do wounded if it's all worth it sometimes...:)


  • Registered Users Posts: 6,569 ✭✭✭ garv123


    Zxthinger wrote: »
    I just got a call to say that diy installation is permitted. So that me good to go.

    They Should have also read up and checked that 3 doesn't need an alarm.. unless the super specifies it.. The FO is making their own rules up. Mine didn't even know the difference between a shotgun and rifle..


  • Registered Users Posts: 1,005 ✭✭✭ Zxthinger


    In the end, I got an alarm and the FO came out to see it. Nothing too technical and I didn't need to demonstrate it. They just looked at it and went off.

    They were concerned that access to the guns was alarmed and it was..

    Not every door or window has a sensor, (this was flagged) some do and other are covered with PIR's

    Access to the guns was covered by the alarm and this was enough to satisfy all..

    I fitted it my self and it was wireless..


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