Success is predetermined

Chockablock Theodore

You were born into a rich family = you are almost guaranteed to be rich. (Bill Gates, Jeff Bezos, Dan Bilzerian) yes they worked hard obviously but if they didn't have families that supported them with hundreds of thousands in investments and connections, they wouldn't have been able to accomplish nowhere near as much. Most most students don't have anything to invest at all apart from their time and working their way up.

Take sports:
Michael Jordan is 6ft6, if another person who had the same dedication and hard work as Michael Jordan but is short, he would never be as successful as him because of him being too short at 6ft. So Michael Jordan wouldn't be where he was if he was short and the core factor in his success is height. If he wasn't 6ft6, he would never be where he was.

There are exceptions in some cases but that's not an accurate way to measure overall performance.
Just because United States had a 5ft4 president, doesn't invalidate that most of their presidents were significantly above average height and are more likely to win an election.

jamesbondings

parents help their kids, no way?

Church on Tuesday

Nope, it's all down to sheer hard work.

duffman13

Roman Abromovich
Howard Shultz
Oprah Winfrey
Do whan Chang
Ralph Lauren
George Soros
Larry Ellison

Some good stories there, there is no black and white that determines success. Rich family with connections obviously offer benefits to those who have them however your only limited by yourself. If your good enough at what you do, you'll achieve! Simple enough

everyone 78 inches tall should be in jordans league so

guess what

completedit

Church on Tuesday wrote: »

Nope, it's all down to sheer hard work.

Is what they want you to believe.

Atlantic Dawn

There's also plenty of example of kids of millionaires who completely fecked up the life handed to them and you wouldn't send them to the well for water.

Welcome to boards. How long will you be staying?

Chockablock Theodore

duffman13 wrote: »

Roman Abromovich
Howard Shultz
Oprah Winfrey
Do whan Chang
Ralph Lauren
George Soros
Larry Ellison

Some good stories there, there is no black and white that determines success. Rich family with connections obviously offer benefits to those who have them however your only limited by yourself. If your good enough at what you do, you'll achieve! Simple enough

Good job ignoring what I wrote. Let me highlight it for you.

"There are exceptions in some cases but that's not an accurate way to measure overall performance.
Just because United States had a 5ft4 president, doesn't invalidate that most of their presidents were significantly above average height and are more likely to win an election."

Chockablock Theodore

Atlantic Dawn wrote: »

There's also plenty of example of kids of millionaires who completely fecked up the life handed to them and you wouldn't send them to the well for water.

Do you have any examples? Even if they **** up, they would just be handed more money.

Padre_Pio

Chockablock Theodore wrote: »

You were born into a rich family = you are almost guaranteed to be rich. (Bill Gates, Jeff Bezos, Dan Bilzerian) yes they worked hard obviously but if they didn't have families that supported them with hundreds of thousands in investments and connections, they wouldn't have been able to accomplish nowhere near as much. Most most students don't have anything to invest at all apart from their time and working their way up.

So people with money, opportunities and a good work ethic do well in life? Who knew?

Bill Gates went to a school which had a computers dept (rare at the time) and found a glitch which gave him unlimited time.

Bezos started Amazon from scratch with his own money as an online book store, right when online shopping was in it's infancy.

Bilzerian was fortunate to come into online poker right when it was taking off. He had enough money to play poker 24/7.

I'd say luck had a lot more than family money and connections.

Purple Mountain

I have a severe sense of deja vu here.
Wasn't this thread done a few months ago with near exactly the same posts??

Church on Tuesday

completedit wrote: »

Is what they want you to believe.

Nothing will be handed to you on a plate.

If you want something bad enough go out and get it.

Fail? try again.

Also this exact same OP question was asked just a few shorts months ago.

duffman13

Chockablock Theodore wrote: »

Good job ignoring what I wrote. Let me highlight it for you.

"There are exceptions in some cases but that's not an accurate way to measure overall performance.
Just because United States had a 5ft4 president, doesn't invalidate that most of their presidents were significantly above average height and are more likely to win an election."

So success is predetermined except when its not! I fundamentally disagree with your assertion and so do you! I would find well connected people in industry can get decent jobs but never rise to the very top without the talent to go with it. People with talent and the right work ethic, regardless of background will become successful

ILoveYourVibes

Padre_Pio wrote: »

Bilzerian was fortunate to come into online poker right when it was taking off. He had enough money to play poker 24/7.

Didn't you hear?

Its all fake ....its all trust fund money ....he was just using poker to avoid paying tax on it.

Its not even straight trust fund money ..not that poker is kosher money..but there you go.

His dad defrauded every penny.

LessOutragePlz

We suffer not from the events in our lives but from our judgements about them.

If you believe your are "unsuccessful" then you'll be miserable for your whole life.

There's a lot more to life than being successful.

Chockablock Theodore

Padre_Pio wrote: »

So people with money, opportunities and a good work ethic do well in life? Who knew?

Bill Gates went to a school which had a computers dept (rare at the time) and found a glitch which gave him unlimited time.

Bezos started Amazon from scratch with his own money as an online book store, right when online shopping was in it's infancy.

Bilzerian was fortunate to come into online poker right when it was taking off. He had enough money to play poker 24/7.

I'd say luck had a lot more than family money and connections.

Stopped reading after dan bilzerian won at poker. There is 0 evidence of that but there is evidence that dan bilzerians father was a corrupt billionaire.

ILoveYourVibes

Chockablock Theodore wrote: »

Stopped reading after dan bilzerian won at poker. There is 0 evidence of that but there is evidence that dan bilzerians father was a corrupt billionaire.

Well said.

Success is largely predetermined.

For white rich people ..its almost a given.

Chockablock Theodore

duffman13 wrote: »

So success is predetermined except when its not! I fundamentally disagree with your assertion and so do you! I would find well connected people in industry can get decent jobs but never rise to the very top without the talent to go with it. People with talent and the right work ethic, regardless of background will become successful

I agree to half of what you are writing. But let me clarify, are you saying that because there was once a 5ft10 basketball player that now you can become a successful basketball player even though 99% of them are 6ft4+?

chrissb8

completedit wrote: »

Is what they want you to believe.

Yes, you may not gain the success of what those very unique one in a million (probably many more millions) people have gotten, who the OP name dropped. Who also worked their backsides off and then some.

But what you will get is a good degree of success with sheer hard work. Reach for the moon and get the stars so to speak.

If you spend time on something that you are motivated about and want to work hard at you will always have some good degree of success.

Talent needs hard work to become greatness and through hard work, you can become reasonably talented at something. Unless you are up against something like a basketball player over 6ft and are 5ft 4in. That is literally a physical impediment in relation to that sport.

duffman13

Chockablock Theodore wrote: »

I agree to half of what you are writing. But let me clarify, are you saying that because there was once a 5ft10 basketball player that now you can become a successful basketball player even though 99% of them are 6ft4+?

You are getting very sports centric, which I like. Basketball is an outlier, its a game that specifically rewards height. Some point guards etc are the exception but these are becoming rarer. 6ft 6 from a quick google is now the average height in the NBA which is mad.

Padre_Pio

Chockablock Theodore wrote: »

Stopped reading after dan bilzerian won at poker. There is 0 evidence of that but there is evidence that dan bilzerians father was a corrupt billionaire.

That's ok, you got through most of the post

RWCNT

Yes, some people have certain advantages whether they be physical, lucky to be born into a rich family etc. It's still possible to succeed in spite of these things but some are lucky enough to get a "leg up". Hardly new information, what's your point?

On a side note, I've always found it funny that you never see intelligence/IQ listed alongside family wealth, physical attributes etc. as a natural advantage people can benefit from. I went to school with people who could achieve high marks with very little effort, other people could achieve the same marks but would need to really graft for it.

tusk

duffman13 wrote: »

You are getting very sports centric, which I like. Basketball is an outlier, its a game that specifically rewards height. Some point guards etc are the exception but these are becoming rarer. 6ft 6 from a quick google is now the average height in the NBA which is mad.

Outliers is a good read that tackles some of this stuff. Worth a look if you're all interested in these types of things.

Padre_Pio

RWCNT wrote: »

Yes, some people have certain advantages whether they be physical, lucky to be born into a rich family etc. It's still possible to succeed in spite of these things but some are lucky enough to get a "leg up". Hardly new information, what's your point?

On a side note, I've always found it funny that you never see intelligence/IQ listed alongside family wealth, physical attributes etc. as a natural advantage people can benefit from. I went to school with people who could achieve high marks with very little effort, other people could achieve the same marks but would need to really graft for it.

In Ireland, you don't need a lot of wealth to get ahead in life. A half decent family life and a half decent work ethic coupled with direction and common sense will get you anywhere you want to go.

College is the biggest financial barrier, but there are grants and schemes available.

razorblunt

Gates ... Bezos ... Bilzerian? WTF.
One of those is not like the others.

Bilzerian is a chicken legged, roided up, failed Marine who has to pay women to hang out with him.
Do you know how much of a loser you have to be to comfortably rich and pay women to hang out with you?

Hoboo

Chockablock Theodore wrote: »

I agree to half of what you are writing. But let me clarify, are you saying that because there was once a 5ft10 basketball player that now you can become a successful basketball player even though 99% of them are 6ft4+?

Ah stop, you're making **** up now. Once a 5.10 player? ONCE??!!

The average height in the NBA this year is 6.6, and I won't insult your intelligence by explaining how averages work.

ILoveYourVibes

razorblunt wrote: »

Gates ... Bezos ... Bilzerian? WTF.
One of those is not like the others.

Bilzerian is a chicken legged, roided up, failed Marine who has to pay women to hang out with him.
Do you know how much of a loser you have to be to comfortably rich and pay women to hang out with you?

I would say he is actually gay.

ILoveYourVibes

Padre_Pio wrote: »

College is the biggest financial barrier, but there are grants and schemes available.

In Ireland is LESS of one. I am not saying its totally barrier free etc. But its more possible and we should be thankful.

Mad_maxx

luck is the most important trait there is

im not saying without it people wont prosper but to really make it big , you need luck at key junctures in your life

reading about Nial Horan while in a doctors waiting room this morning , apparently hes worth fifty million , well done to him but hes a pretty mediocre talent , thousands around this country are equally as talented when it comes to music

thats just one example

i personally dont fully believe in free will

A lot of it is random and luck.

Padre_Pio

ILoveYourVibes wrote: »

In Ireland is LESS of one. I am not saying its totally barrier free etc. But its more possible and we should be thankful.

Exactly. And most companies are crying out for STEM graduates. If you want to make 30k plus straight out of college at 22, with zero or low debt, Ireland is a fantastic place to be.

Now, not everyone sees the value in education, or sees that college choices are a cost/benefit decision, or really cares enough about success and money (as is their choice) but people in this country have little to complain about if they are not financially independent.

I know I'll get the usual "tell that to those at home because of COVID, property prices, recession etc, etc" but these are short term events.

B.A._Baracus

Luck is another factor.
I am of the mentality of put yourself out there and let's see if luck favors you.

Leonardo DiCaprio said something about luck once. How fortunate he was. As there's a million pretty boy actors ( :pac: ) who could have got cast in Titanic and his subsequent successful movies to build him as a star.

A lot of life is just sticking at it, putting yourself out there or in a place so luck can favor you.

Mad_maxx

B.A._Baracus wrote: »

Luck is another factor.
I am of the mentality of put yourself out there and let's see if luck favors you.

Leonardo DiCaprio said something about luck once. How fortunate he was. As there's a million pretty boy actors ( :pac: ) who could have got cast in Titanic and his subsequent successful movies to build him as a star.

A lot of life is just sticking at it, putting yourself out there or in a place so luck can favor you.

Absolutely and the other end of the chance spectrum is where bad luck intervenes

Person happend to be out walking when drunk driver who lost control was driving past

sbsquarepants

Success or failure are not predetermined. We can all only play the hand we're dealt and obviously if you are dealt a better hand you have a head start, but that's all you have.

You can very easily fúck up a good start, and you can also make up for a bad one with a bit of luck and effort. I think what is generally overlooked is that you really do need quite a bit of luck, no matter how hard you work, or how smart you are, or who you know etc.

To get to the top of any field, be that business, sport, showbiz, whatever you need to be very talented, very dedicated and very lucky. The middle ground is absolutely packed full of people who were just 2 of those things!

Chockablock Theodore

razorblunt wrote: »

Gates ... Bezos ... Bilzerian? WTF.
One of those is not like the others.

Bilzerian is a chicken legged, roided up, failed Marine who has to pay women to hang out with him.
Do you know how much of a loser you have to be to comfortably rich and pay women to hang out with you?

The only one that is stupid here is you since you cannot comprehend the exact point that I was making yet you wanted to show your stupidity for all to see.

skooterblue2

Chockablock Theodore wrote: »

Do you have any examples? Even if they **** up, they would just be handed more money.

The Kennedy family from Cape Cod, completely unelectable generation of politicians.
Joshua Allen from Ballymaloe.
Brodie Sweeney from Spectraphoto and Obriens Sandwich bars.
Callum Brosnan, Pierces adopted son, coke addict.

Family names, legacy and money can open doors but you still have to put in some effort yourself.
Try and start to understand how wealth is created and maintained. Read Rich Dad poor dad by Robert Kiyosaki.

pgj2015

some footballers become better and more successful than their fathers, Erling Braut Håland is far better than his dad Alf-Inge Håland who played for leeds.

Paul dalglish was rubbish compared to his dad kenny and was given a chance to play in the premier league when his dad was managing newcastle, now he was nowhere near good enough to be playing in the premier league. he ending his career as a striker who played 206 game and scored 22 goals.

why do you think one son became a success and the other did not? hard work? talent?

skooterblue2

Mad_maxx wrote: »

reading about Nial Horan while in a doctors waiting room this morning , apparently hes worth fifty million , well done to him but hes a pretty mediocre talent , thousands around this country are equally as talented when it comes to music

thats just one example

i personally dont fully believe in free will

I am no fan of Louis Walsh but Louis gets his stars proper legal and financial advice so they dont end up on skid row. You can argue Shane Filan and Bryan McFadden but they were two indians who went off the reservation. One thinking he was a property developer and what not the other blew it partying.

The best example of it is Gary Cole from Different Strokes (That is showing my age). His parents thought he was a golden goose and spent his money on crap as soon as they got it despite being the highest earning entertainer of his time.

Padre_Pio

skooterblue2 wrote: »

The best example of it is Gary Coleman from Different Strokes (That is showing my age). His parents thought he was a golden goose and spent his money on crap as soon as they got it despite being the highest earning entertainer of his time.

FYP

Gary Cole is the guy from Office Space

COVID

pgj2015 wrote: »

some footballers become better and more successful than their fathers, Erling Braut Håland is far better than his dad Alf-Inge Håland who played for leeds.

Paul dalglish was rubbish compared to his dad kenny and was given a chance to play in the premier league when his dad was managing newcastle, now he was nowhere near good enough to be playing in the premier league. he ending his career as a striker who played 206 game and scored 22 goals.

why do you think one son became a success and the other did not? hard work? talent?

The late-great Peter Bonetti, known as 'The Cat', was a fantastic goalkeeper, but I don't think his son Nicholas was very good...to be fair he might have been, but I've never heard of him.
So that proves the point you made above about Erling Braut Haaland and Paul Dalglish in an almost scientific way.
BTW, I'm a St.Patrick's Athletic man myself.

Junkyard Tom

Wealth is only a measure of itself and says nothing about the character of the person, or how they came by their wealth.

Ten of Swords

Purple Mountain wrote: »

I have a severe sense of deja vu here.
Wasn't this thread done a few months ago with near exactly the same posts??

Indeed we did
https://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?p=113742041

Chock - not looking good I'm afraid