Multi player FPS games are dead and cheaters killed it.

BloodBath

You may have seen more articles lately about this topic but it's not being talked about enough. The problem of cheaters in online multiplayer games is getting out of hand. FPS games being the worst culprit, especially the FTP variety.

A few years back the majority of cheating was on PC and was of the game hack variety which was often obvious and detectable by some anti cheat software. Modern cheats are completely undetectable by the OS or game as it's being done externally either through a plugin device or on the mouse or controller itself.

A recent survey had nearly 50% of voters saying that they use or have used third party tools to cheat in games. Even consoles aren't safe from it anymore. There are plugin devices that allow for all kinds of scripting and cheating that plugs into all consoles that allows improved aim assist, no recoil scripts, auto spotting etc and is completely undetectable. These devices sell out constantly and have waiting lists to receive 1. These same scripts have been used on PC for years.

Steam's recent ban wave for CS-GO banned over 1 million accounts for cheating in a single month. 13 million pubg accounts have been banned to date for cheating. Warzone has banned far less but the game is plagued with cheaters. Destiny 2 cheaters are up 50% since January this year according to Bungie.

These are people using detectable software cheats. The numbers for the undetectable scripts is far higher.

The problem is only getting worse every year. So much so that I have completely gone off the genre. At least 10-20% of players in many FPS games are using some type of cheats. That's 15-30 players in every warzone lobby. Many people might not notice or care but imo it's going to kill the genre.

Unless they can come up with some advanced ai based anti cheat system that can detect these scripts then the genre is doomed as the number of cheaters is only increasing dramatically every year.

Potential-Monke

One must lead a fairly sad existence to want/have to cheat in online MP games. I've no issues with cheaters in offline games, as that doesn't affect anyone else, and sometimes can be fun (unlimited ammo/unlock all guns in GTA 3), but online is different. I've no doubt it could kill genres, but with numbers that CoD, etc have playing it's not as noticable to a lot of players.

Something will have to be done, and I think the only way is console/MAC bans, but I'm sure there's ways around that too. But as you said, it's detecting it will be the problem. Right now I'd say they're still depending on their users to report it, which isn't a great way. Surely they could have some kind of software that picks up when a gun or something doesn't act the way it should (referring to increased auto-aim and no recoil specifically, that surely changes code as the game is being played and should be detectable, ie: a shotgun with increased range cheats, etc). I dunno, I don't know enough about coding to know.

BloodBath

Here's a little look at the top 20 players in warzone. Most are long term cheaters, all mainly using consoles. I could show the top 100 and it would be the same.

Canis Lupus

Bans need to be harsher as well. None of this banned for cheating but just make a new account and you're good to go again bull**** of the highest order.

Link games to phone numbers, hardware and IP and you cheat and you're gone forever. I'd even go so far as to say banned from a platform. You cheat? Thanks for the all the fish but you can no longer use your steam account to activate/buy new games.

Mr Crispy

I'm hoping machine learning/AI can be leveraged eventually, but in the meantime I agree with the lads above - penalties need to be far stricter. Also, the platforms, publishers/devs need to do more as well. It's put me off most forms of MP bar the handful of games where co-op with friends is the way to go.

BeerWolf

I pretty much haven't played competitive fps games in a long time for this very reason, cheaters. So now I just stick to co-op FPS, and RPGs generally when it comes to online play.

I avoid F2P games like the plague that let people make another free account whenever they get banned. And for bought games I want to see repercussions for these assholes, have their entire gaming library locked.

gimli2112

i really don't understand it.
make a game against bots and set the timer for 10 minutes
you'll be bored before the end
honestly there should be consequences, bricked consoles, account bans etc maybe not the death penalty

Potential-Monke

gimli2112 wrote: »

maybe not the death penalty

Nah, feck 'em. If they cheat in a (usually F2P) MP game, imagine what kind of people they must be in real life. No loss I reckon.

Stone Deaf 4evr

In the couple of hundred hours of warzone I've played, I think I've only come across 3 sets of genuine cheaters.
I'm not debating that they're not out there, but I don't feel its as much of an issue as streamers and youtubers make out - also, they're on the game all day, every day, so they're going to have more opportunity to bump into them.

The problem is when a games playerbase starts to dwindle, old call of duty games on console were notorious for having hacked lobbies. The hunger to keep the experience pure was never there from the devs/ publishers as, by and large, everyone else had moved on to the next game in the series.

The cynic in me also thinks that some of it is quietly tolerated, as even though the games are free to play, cheaters are still spending money on skins etc, so banning an account just means they'll buy their stuff again.

gimli2112

I do think it's particularly bad in WZ but because SBMM puts the cheaters in the top brackets I don't see it as much. I mean what cheater is going to have a 0.9 KDR like me?

I play a lot of competitive fps games. It's not nearly as prevalent as op is suggesting. 10-20% of people are using cheats? Nonsense

BloodBath

Stone Deaf 4evr wrote: »

In the couple of hundred hours of warzone I've played, I think I've only come across 3 sets of genuine cheaters.
I'm not debating that they're not out there, but I don't feel its as much of an issue as streamers and youtubers make out - also, they're on the game all day, every day, so they're going to have more opportunity to bump into them.

The problem is when a games playerbase starts to dwindle, old call of duty games on console were notorious for having hacked lobbies. The hunger to keep the experience pure was never there from the devs/ publishers as, by and large, everyone else had moved on to the next game in the series.

The cynic in me also thinks that some of it is quietly tolerated, as even though the games are free to play, cheaters are still spending money on skins etc, so banning an account just means they'll buy their stuff again.

It is that much of an issue but sure if everyone keeps their head in the sand it's only gonna get worse.

Most of them aren't that obvious. You not noticing them doesn't mean much. Warzone has a terrible cheater problem. It's a popular FTP FPS game. There's very few lobbies that won't have at least 1 cheater in them.

Deleted User wrote: »

I play a lot of competitive fps games. It's not nearly as prevalent as op is suggesting. 10-20% of people are using cheats? Nonsense

I said some games and it is that prevalent. I'm also talking worldwide here. It's far higher than 10% on Asian servers. It's super common in China and many of those players play on EU and US servers too.

You must be thinking it's some super obvious wallhacking spinbot, aimbot, speed hacking 1000 kill cheater. Most of those guys get banned. It's the less obvious no recoil scripting, aim assist and other nonsense that is far more common as it's undetectable and not obvious to the untrained eye if at all. The main way of spotting them is their movement is terrible but their aim is godly but it looks far more natural than outright game hacks.

Where are you getting this numbers from? I'd say 1% would be generous in my experience

BloodBath

The 10-20% was based on the survey where 10% admitted to regularly using them with another 10% saying they occasionally use them.

Granted it's an online survey so it doesn't mean much either but accurate figures are not exactly easy to obtain.

5 years ago I would have said 1% as well. It's far higher than that now with consoles joining the list.

Your experience doesn't mean much. Spotting scripters is hard. Practically impossible to prove.

Anti recoil scripting and improved aim assist looks similar to a great players aim.

Wizard!

Potential-Monke wrote: »

One must lead a fairly sad existence to want/have to cheat in online MP games.

Huge money involved. Take a look at ebay, or similar sites for leveled up accounts... The buy an account, max it out and then sell it to some 10yo kid who doesn't want to go through that and have all items unlocked.


The harder the game, the more pricey the account.

Canis Lupus wrote: »

Bans need to be harsher as well. None of this banned for cheating but just make a new account and you're good to go again bull**** of the highest order.

gimli2112 wrote: »

honestly there should be consequences, bricked consoles, account bans etc maybe not the death penalty

But why...? Cheaters will almost always buy another S/N for the game after a ban. More money for the company. They don't care.

Stone Deaf 4evr wrote: »

In the couple of hundred hours of warzone I've played, I think I've only come across 3 sets of genuine cheaters.

The fact that you cannot recognize a cheat, or you mean only blatantly cheats, does not mean that there are no cheaters.



For example, just take a look how many sales have mice with the ability of "no recoil" scripts... Or devices such as the OP suggested... Or even more, the numbers of banned accounts. Unless you think that companies will ban without proof. Maybe they know a bit better than what you think.

gimli2112

I remember years ago playing MW2 with a hacker. When he told me I got him to turn off his hacks and he was all contrite. Doubt many people would admit to it, you're basically saying I'm a shi*head

I do think it's a lot more common. i only heard of Chronos max playing the Division, I expect/suspect a lot of youtubers use stuff like it

Anima

It definitely doesn't seem to be a priority for the companies. CSGO since it has become F2P has gotten a lot worse. The obvious spinbot guys aren't the problem. It's the guys who play as normal but cheat when they have to win and do it subtely. It's sad and pathetic but it's so obvious.

Valve's VAC system is basically pointless. Even the really invasive Valorent system is probably not perfect.

At the same time for aim hacks, I don't see how they can't detect server side if someones mouse is moving at impossible velocities. Seems like they could run an AI on this to detect the patterns and even ban retroactively/non-realtime.

Wallhack is impossible to remove though. If the data is on the client machine (player positions etc), there will be a way to get at it.

BloodBath

Anima wrote: »

It definitely doesn't seem to be a priority for the companies. CSGO since it has become F2P has gotten a lot worse. The obvious spinbot guys aren't the problem. It's the guys who play as normal but cheat when they have to win and do it subtely. It's sad and pathetic but it's so obvious.

Valve's VAC system is basically pointless. Even the really invasive Valorent system is probably not perfect.

At the same time for aim hacks, I don't see how they can't detect server side if someones mouse is moving at impossible velocities. Seems like they could run an AI on this to detect the patterns and even ban retroactively/non-realtime.

Wallhack is impossible to remove though. If the data is on the client machine (player positions etc), there will be a way to get at it.

Exactly. There are some developers working on training ai to spot the anti recoil scripting but I'm sure they will figure out ways to counteract that as well.

The movements are set per gun and will consistently be the same. No human could do that so it should be detectable. These movements should be sent to the server for analysis but that would probably create a load of server overhead which most companies aren't gonna do. They won't pay for higher tick rate servers never mind that.

Wallhacking and aimbotting are impossible to stop because as you said all the data is client side to do that.

Azza

Human nature, people can't handle loosing and can quite easily justify cheating to themselves.

It goes something like this. A player gets his ass handed to him in a game and gets into a rage and thinks "FFS, screw these sad no life loser kids who spend 8 hours a day playing this game, I've got a life, unlike these dumb nerds, I've got a job and a girlfriend and I don't have time/can't be arsed to play this game 8 hours a day but If I did I'd easily be better than these little ****s who are actually crap for all the time they spend playing at it, I know I'll get one of those assist devices and show them how good I'd be if I had time to play the game as much as they did, its not cheating though because I'd really be that good if I had the time or was bothered."

I can't say I've never got frustrated thick when I've been beaten in video games online (and offline games). If people where around me when it happens I'd look like a right psycho but in general I can restrain myself from venting to the person/persons on the other side of the internet and I cool down fairly quickly.
As I said Human nature though, defend one's own dignity and belittle the achievement of ones opponent. I only ever lose at an RTS or fighting game because of bad balance but I never win because of it

As for cheating, never did it online. Back in my college days though I did it on lan game of Call of Duty 2 where myself and 2 other housemates used wallhacks to annoy one other players who didn't know. Was quite funny to hear him scream several times "how did you know I was there!"

Anima

Worst of all in PUBG, there is no server side hit detection afaik. In CS there is but PUBG has too much load on the server with 100 players that they simply rely on the client to inform the server of a hit.

But ultimately like you said, it's down to the cost. The companies don't want huge monthly server costs. Also banning people and then them buying the game again presents a conflict of interest.

nix

I'd be all for a verification process to play online games, want to play CS:Go ?

You need to verify your steam account with a Passport or some other legit ID, if you then hack on CSGO and get caught, your entire steam account is banned. And you cant then open another account as your ID is linked to that account.

It'd be a pain in the hoop, but once you verify your accounts, its all good.

But then you have account theft to worry about then i guess, but thats a current worry now anyway.

Wizard!

nix wrote: »

You need to verify your steam account with a Passport or some other legit ID, if you then hack on CSGO and get caught, your entire steam account is banned. And you cant then open another account as your ID is linked to that account.

Dozens of attacks on gaming databases and account thefts in the past to prove we cannot trust them. There is no way I am giving them such information, until they prove that cheating can be prevented. Meanwhile I will just stop playing online.

Anima

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AIbkt6Rl8FA

Robert ninja

BloodBath wrote: »

These movements should be sent to the server for analysis but that would probably create a load of server overhead which most companies aren't gonna do

That's if you do it real-time and on the user's systems which isn't necessary. If you've got a cheater in your session you can consider the session compromised.

Valve has a ridiculous amount of ranked session recordings, some of which they know hackers were in at one point if they match it to their banned account list. These are full lobby recordings where you can play back every micro movement from every player in-engine. They can run an AI through them to learn what are legit movements and machine movements like you said, especially when they can tell the AI that yes, there was cheaters in these 1000s of confirmed hacked games. They can do that on their own systems or in the cloud... absolutely no need to attach such a process to a live game. If a session gets hacking reports, the replay can be sent off to an AI server and processed, usually at very high speeds so they can run through it a ton of times, makes no difference to a machine how fast it's going. Ban can be confirmed before the day's out.

nix wrote: »

You need to verify your steam account with a Passport or some other legit ID

What an abysmal idea. As another user said that's just asking for security issues. Identify theft business would boom. The day I need to show my passport to play a video game is the day I stop playing.

nix

Robert ninja wrote: »

What an abysmal idea. As another user said that's just asking for security issues. Identify theft business would boom. The day I need to show my passport to play a video game is the day I stop playing.

Heh, you've obviously never played in an online poker/casino/bookmakers, if they can do it, massive gaming companies could easily do it, they wouldnt even need to keep the ID's stored, they could just tick a box on their account and keep a partial part of the ID to prevent any future duplicate accounts.

Sure they could have data breaches but so do many other companies, I've had to supply my passport to many companies over the years, its not a wild idea :pac:

Wizard!

Robert ninja wrote: »

What an abysmal idea. As another user said that's just asking for security issues. Identify theft business would boom. The day I need to show my passport to play a video game is the day I stop playing.

PUBG has implement a "ranked game" where you verify your account with a mobile number... I am not judging the fact that is very easy to compromise this with a burner phone, however it is funny that I know a lot of streamers with a K/D of 5, 6, 7 while in the ranked mode are below 1... Don't really know what to assume here, but my thoughts are that some of them are not legit (and there are plenty already caught)

Robert ninja

nix wrote: »

massive gaming companies could easily do it

Yeah of course they could - we're talking about if they should.

nix wrote: »

they wouldnt even need to keep the ID's stored

Maybe you don't follow tech security news or modern big tech companies but I can guarantee you those records are practically never going to be deleted and will sit idle until they're leaked from an unsecure server or outright sold for profit. Government layers in countries around the world have done it so it's not a stretch to imagine that a for-profit AAA video game company would.

nix wrote: »

I've had to supply my passport to many companies over the years, its not a wild idea

It's a wild idea when you consider we're talking about online retailers. I've never provided a digital copy of my passport to any commercial company in my life and I probably never will. I can't possibly think of any product I'd want that badly or any reason that they'd need it. I flash my passport at airports and buying alcohol... the only places I'm legally required to for commercial products and services.

If you don't mind could you share the online companies/products you've come across that ask the user to upload credentials to do business with?

_CreeD_

There have always been cheaters, I'd imagine the % of gaming population hasn't really changed over the years only really being interrupted by availability (as you mentioned for example on consoles earlier). Consider also that some key aspects of modern gaming evolved from the most prevalent cheat - play with a controller? like that auto-aim/aim-assist? That's just an integrated aim-bot hack that would have gotten you banned back in the day. Now it's a common part of play that hardly any one blinks at (and why I refuse to play any online MP that allows it on PC).
For me MP play really started dying with the move to peer-to-peer and dynamic match-making lobbies. When MP was dominated by 3rd party dedicated servers each had a community and admins to curate the principals of that community on the server. Some you would disagree with and move on but when you found a server with a culture and regulars you liked you typically joined their forums, voice chats etc. It's how Boards came to be, originally as Quake.ie and then multi-game as boards.ie before expanding into the vast multi-topic it is today. I've receded from MP because as more of my older friends have moved on from gaming it's become a hollow random experience of constantly changing team mates and respectable opponents. The cheating aspect is also allowed to grow under this environment as you've lost community administered servers, with an effective human monitoring players directly and banning quickly. Now you rely on software to catch apps that are specifically written by developers who live to exploit software....

K.O.Kiki

I feel like it's a game design problem, too.

What do all these cheating games have in common?
Slow player movement & low TTK (headshot) hitscan weapons.

Unfortunately, the majority of gamers would rather get a few lucky shots & score a kill instead of learning how to pre-aim a rocket launcher.

awec

This thread has a real smell of "player is better than me, so player must be cheating" off it.

Robert ninja

Robert ninja wrote: »

If you don't mind could you share the online companies/products you've come across that ask the user to upload credentials to do business with?

The handful of times I've had to do this was signing up to crypto exchanges, skrill and most recently paddy power.

kowloon

I didn't know this was so widespread. I played Quake back in the day and wasn't terrible at it. I tried out some modern FPS games in the last while and I had put down my inability to keep up with other players down to age and skill atrophy, but maybe there are more cheaters than I thought. Myself and a few friends played Day-Z a while back (aged between late 20s and 50s) and a single player wiped the floor with six of us through cover.

Mr. CooL ICE

Robert ninja wrote: »

If you don't mind could you share the online companies/products you've come across that ask the user to upload credentials to do business with?

Was pretty common with online poker companies. They usually insisted on it for accounts with big payouts to prevent cheating, fraud and money laundering, among other things.

nix

Deleted User wrote: »

The handful of times I've had to do this was signing up to crypto exchanges, skrill and most recently paddy power.

Yeah all online bookies/casinos have to do it now, and not just for people moving big money about, all new accounts need to be verified and they pretty much only accept Passport or drivers licenses, and if you're using a debit/credit card, you may also need to supply a recent statement confirming name and address and a picture of the card itself, its a lot but necessary to prevent fraud.

I try and minimize having to give that much info for obvious reasons, but other companies that come to mind that ive had to do it with were Revolut and my phone company, pretty sure ive had to do it for some hotels over the years too. And thats just **** ive experienced, im sure others can throw other examples up..

beauf

K.O.Kiki wrote: »

I feel like it's a game design problem, too.

What do all these cheating games have in common?
Slow player movement & low TTK (headshot) hitscan weapons.

Unfortunately, the majority of gamers would rather get a few lucky shots & score a kill instead of learning how to pre-aim a rocket launcher.

Good gameplay is not learning maps by rote and pre aiming points. That kinda meta destroys game's. If you want that kind gameplay you should be matched with similarly skilled players,v who have also spent the same time in game.

beauf

kowloon wrote: »

I didn't know this was so widespread. I played Quake back in the day and wasn't terrible at it. I tried out some modern FPS games in the last while and I had put down my inability to keep up with other players down to age and skill atrophy, but maybe there are more cheaters than I thought. Myself and a few friends played Day-Z a while back (aged between late 20s and 50s) and a single player wiped the floor with six of us through cover.

Started with COD4 and punkbuster that game was destroyed with cheating.

There's another aspect too. In some games people are spending ten of thousands on rigs and in games boosters etc. Then they spend vastly more time in game. You haven't a hope of competing. It's like a premiership footballer playing your pubs 5 a side. No fun in that for anyone else.

Most games are mostly fun when playing with similar skilled players. It's why most sports are graded.

beauf

This was an interesting twist on it...

https://www.bbc.co.uk/newsround/52810167

gimli2112

Hired a professional gamer? He should have asked his 12 year old cousin and he'd have probably won it.

beauf

gimli2112 wrote: »

Hired a professional gamer? He should have asked his 12 year old cousin and he'd have probably won it.

His 12yr old cousin won't have a 30k rig required to be competitive.

Dcully

beauf wrote: »

His 12yr old cousin won't have a 30k rig required to be competitive.

slight exaggeration there.

Canis Lupus

awec wrote: »

This thread has a real smell of "player is better than me, so player must be cheating" off it.

I'm not so sure. When you play a game enough you get a general sense of what's unusual and what's not.

I do appreciate games that give you a proper kill cam or even better allow you to rewatch a match from each player's perspective.

gimli2112

awec wrote: »

This thread has a real smell of "player is better than me, so player must be cheating" off it.

I didn't reread the thread but I don't remember anyone saying "I'm plagued by cheaters".
There are certainly games that are but if it doesn't affect you, that's great.

beauf

Canis Lupus wrote: »

I'm not so sure. When you play a game enough you get a general sense of what's unusual and what's not...

You generally know when you're being out played vs someone cheating.

nix

The cheaters ive been experiencing lately have been in Escape from Tarkov, theres a map in the game called "Labs" and it is littered with hackers, its a miracle if you get into a labs run and it doesnt have a hacker in it, and even then you're constantly freaked out that you will get killed any moment from some jerk speed hacking by with an aim bot.

I've never seen the hacking so bad in a game in my 25 years of online gaming, its crazy how bad it got..

CoD is another game i dont play but hear that gets pretty bad too.

Wizard!

nix wrote: »

The cheaters ive been experiencing lately have been in Escape from Tarkov...

And yet I am not allowed to play, because I am using a VM, just because most cheaters do... Without any F* proof.


They also refused to refund my 140 euros for that game! :mad:

gimli2112

the only thing worse than people cheating is people getting banned for not cheating

Dravokivich

I've never agreed with the idea of banning people from games. In most instances they've bought a product. If you suspect them of cheating, it should be possible to have a flag against them, so cheaters are only lobbied up with cheaters.

beauf

Dravokivich wrote: »

I've never agreed with the idea of banning people from games. In most instances they've bought a product. If you suspect them of cheating, it should be possible to have a flag against them, so cheaters are only lobbied up with cheaters.

While that's a good idea someone who's not cheating but gets put in their will effectively not be able to play.

frozenfrozen

csgo is riddled with cheaters

beauf

Wizard! wrote: »

And yet I am not allowed to play, because I am using a VM, just because most cheaters do... Without any F* proof.


They also refused to refund my 140 euros for that game! :mad:

Seems like that game is swamped with cheating.

They also ban VPN because if how it can effect performance on the server. But I think it was mainly done as quick fix as if they don't act quickly everyone will stop playing it.

Snake Plisken

If I'm playing Modern Warfare I turn off cross platform, way too many PC hackers, there should really be an option for cross play just for Console. Only cheating you find on Console is players using Chronusmax dongles running scripts but I have yet to come across one (pretty obvious from kill cam)