Noise From Construction Sites

Strumms

All,

I have a neighbor who recently sold a house that the new owners for want of a better description have gutted / are gutting both inside for renovations and outside... gardens too, all trees, being ripped up, old windows being ripped out, new wall being built. Mostly done of course by use of quite heavy plant machinery, sounds like pile driving right now with material being forcefully dumped into a skip by a digger. Can almost ‘feel’ the vibrations.

Both Friday and today it started bang on 7am. I woke bang on 7am on it commencing. I’d no knowledge of building/planning regulations so on clicking on the council website to verify I was surprised that works of this nature can proceed from 7am without restrictions.

In a civilized world how the fûck is that allowed ? While I understand that there might be commercial concerns or pressures to get work done in a speedy and efficient manner, if that is work of this nature to be carried out at an early and unreasonable time which 7am IS in my view, for a residential area you are in a situation in this poxy country yet again where the whims and wants of a commercial business trumps the wellbeing and comfort of the average citizen and community. WHY ?

8am is reasonable as the majority are up or at least awake or getting there where it won’t be sooo much of an inconvenience.. But in corporate Ireland which for I guess 25 years plus now has had the run and say of everything and anything for its benefit with little or no consideration for the ordinary guy... it’s poxy.

Has anybody had any luck on the off chance in complaining that noise might be ‘excessive’ or is there any recourse at all here ? The DCC website suggests not but is vague in its wording, no surprises there.... thanks. It’s like a war zone out there.

Dudda

This is a reply I made to a similar post from two weeks ago

Dudda wrote: »

Ok to clarify the rules in Ireland:

Back in the boom times the green party when in government with FF tried to bring in construction noise and time regulations. This failed as the construction industry was so strong and employed so many. In addition the argument you need to carry out roadworks outside certain hours was used. We therefore have no time limits on construction noise.

Noise after 11pm falls under a different category and the police can deal with it like for example a house party. For construction noise after 11 they'll tell you to deal with the Environment Protection Agency in your local council. The problem is they work 9-5 Monday to Friday so won't deal with complaints outside this time unless arranged in advance.

Due to the lack of laws some local authorities, particularly in the larger cities, impose construction related hours conditions on planning applications. This doesn't always happen (way less than half) and obviously only applies if the project requires planning and even then you can't really complain as they planning enforcer works 9-5 Monday to Friday. If you complain about people working late they'll come out the following night. We complained about a shop in Dublin City Council carrying out renovations overnight during our exams in college. The following day the contractor applied for a night construction permit (which anyone can get) and when the enforcer turned up presented it.

In short you can do pretty much nothing and in general I'm happy with this. People need to do work at certain times for a number of reasons.

Daylight is best in the morning particularly in the winter therefore the early start. You need good daylight for a health and safety point and also to be able to produce a high quality of work.

Remember the construction won't last forever.

Strumms

Dudda wrote: »

This is a reply I made to a similar post from two weeks ago

Daylight is best in the morning particularly in the winter therefore the early start. You need good daylight for a health and safety point and also to be able to produce a high quality of work.

Remember the construction won't last forever.

I can’t agree unfortunately.

In September there are no ‘light’ issues whatsoever that would negatively impact work being carried out at responsible times. Sunset will be at approximately 19.10 this evening. Over ten hours of good light in which to work.

The health and safety of residents should be paramount. The health and safety of workers will not be negatively impacted or risked by having them work between 8am and say 6.45 pm. That’s ten and three quarter hours available to make ‘noisy’ work... preparatory and clean up can happen outside obviously if needed with care and caution so ten and three quarter hours of noise plus a couple in prep and cleanup... they in theory have 12.45 hours of work and that ‘can’ include 10.45 of unrestricted noise.

They want their cake and to eat it here.

_Brian

While early 7am really isn’t an unreasonable start.

Strumms

_Brian wrote: »

While early 7am really isn’t an unreasonable start.

Starting prep work no, actually pile driving (excessive noise and vibration) and loading material into skips, ALL in a residential area, it is unreasonable in my view, at 7am.

Cheensbo

Most site times across the country are 7am to 6pm Monday to Friday and 8am to 2pm Saturdays.

This goes for factories also.

Good luck changing that :pac:

Vestiapx

How in earth can a person in Dublin get up at 8am and be in work or school on time ?

Strumms

Cheensbo wrote: »

Most site times across the country are 7am to 6pm Monday to Friday and 8am to 2pm Saturdays.

This goes for factories also.

Good luck changing that :pac:

I’m not really concerned about factories, they are enclosed so the noise isn’t a factor.

My post was relating to work being carried out from 7am at and outside a residential property in a built up area. Use of a plie driver at 7am ? Nahhh not cool.

Odelay

7am is not early.

Odelay

Strumms wrote: »

I’m not really concerned about factories, they are enclosed so the noise isn’t a factor.

My post was relating to work being carried out from 7am at and outside a residential property in a built up area. Use of a plie driver at 7am ? Nahhh not cool.

A pile driver? On a residential house?

Strumms

Vestiapx wrote: »

How in earth can a person in Dublin get up at 8am and be in work or school on time ?

Absolutely everybody on my road can quite simply, the school is at the end of it.

Work ? These days not every job is 9-5. I’m complaining now but a few years ago when I had a 5am finish I’d have been even less enamored.

hayoc

Count yourself lucky, theres a site behind where I live and they are starting at 6am since they reopened after being closed during March-May.

Its loud!!

Strumms

Odelay wrote: »

A pile driver? On a residential house?

Most probably, sounds like it or if not the exact definition a piece of equipment that is certainly repeatedly hammering the ground causing serious noise and vibration.

Vestiapx

Strumms wrote: »

Absolutely everybody on my road can quite simply, the school is at the end of it.

Work ? These days not every job is 9-5. I’m complaining now but a few years ago when I had a 5am finish I’d have been even less enamored.

The 5am finish would have been as bad with a 8am start wouldn't it ? Shift work is horrible ☹️.
The fact that most jobs these days are not 9-5 is irrelevant to the fact that construction workers start early. 7 am start avoids traffic remember they are often travelling quite a distance as they travel to the job site which moves around from job to job.

Cheensbo

Strumms wrote: »

I’m not really concerned about factories, they are enclosed so the noise isn’t a factor.

My post was relating to work being carried out from 7am at and outside a residential property in a built up area. Use of a plie driver at 7am ? Nahhh not cool.

Just making a point really, the concern seems to be based around your own perception of what is noisy/allowable, and also your own definition of what constitutes "early" - the general view of people around the country has lead to the current rules.

Factories do of course count, for instance - The factory I work in, based in a residential area does plenty of very noisy outside work, the neighbors don't love it but once we operate within the rules (7am to 6pm) there can be no issues.

Is it a pile driver, a jack hammer, a wacker, someone filling a skip - or just the general noise that's a problem?

Strumms

Cheensbo wrote: »

Just making a point really, the concern seems to be based around your own perception of what is noisy/allowable, and also your own definition of what constitutes "early" - the general view of people around the country has lead to the current rules.

Factories do of course count, for instance - The factory I work in, based in a residential area does plenty of very noisy outside work, the neighbors don't love it but once we operate within the rules (7am to 6pm) there can be no issues.

Is it a pile driver, a jack hammer, a wacker, someone filling a skip - or just the general noise that's a problem?

My bet is a pile driver or at least certainly equipment that is certainly more heavy duty than a simple jack hammer... you can ‘feel’ vibration.... skips are being filled in with what sounded like windows, broken glass and whatever else.

Cheensbo

Strumms wrote: »

My bet is a pile driver or at least certainly equipment that is certainly more heavy duty than a simple jack hammer... you can ‘feel’ vibration.... skips are being filled in with what sounded like windows, broken glass and whatever else.

You may have a genuine complaint with the vibration - if it is deemed to be excessive by the L.A.

Other than that, it's just the sound of construction tbh, it won't be forever, some day you might need to get some work done and the shoe will be on a different foot.

Dudda

Strumms wrote: »

I can’t agree unfortunately.

In September there are no ‘light’ issues whatsoever that would negatively impact work being carried out at responsible times. Sunset will be at approximately 19.10 this evening. Over ten hours of good light in which to work.

The health and safety of residents should be paramount. The health and safety of workers will not be negatively impacted or risked by having them work between 8am and say 6.45 pm. That’s ten and three quarter hours available to make ‘noisy’ work... preparatory and clean up can happen outside obviously if needed with care and caution so ten and three quarter hours of noise plus a couple in prep and cleanup... they in theory have 12.45 hours of work and that ‘can’ include 10.45 of unrestricted noise.

They want their cake and to eat it here.

Well you don't judge the working hours for the whole year based on the last week in September and you need the hours constant all year round. You judge them based on winter which is what I said. You can't just pick the daylight hours of today like you did and multiply that for the year.

In addition unfortunately the risks involved with construction are high and therefore the heath and safety of the construction workers is more important than the 'health and safety of residents' and the very minor noise inconvenience to them.

Approach the neighbour and ask them if they could not use heavy machinery until 8am but remember they'd be doing you a favour. You've zero rights in this case as they're doing nothing wrong.

Strumms

Cheensbo wrote: »

You may have a genuine complaint with the vibration - if it is deemed to be excessive by the L.A.

Other than that, it's just the sound of construction tbh, it won't be forever, some day you might need to get some work done and the shoe will be on a different foot.

I’ve had to get work done, over a number of weeks in a really established residential area that by the very nature of the work (building a new garage) wasn’t quiet at times at all anyway but was very clear to the builder that I wanted to maintain good relations with all of my neighbors including one who opposed the planning permission so all the noisy work was completed to comply with planning regs.

sydthebeat

7am is not early.

Strumms

Dudda wrote: »

Well you don't judge the working hours for the whole year based on the last week in September and you need the hours constant all year round. You judge them based on winter which is what I said. You can't just pick the daylight hours of today like you did and multiply that for the year.

In addition unfortunately the risks involved with construction are high and therefore the heath and safety of the construction workers is more important than the 'health and safety of residents' and the very minor noise inconvenience to them.

Approach the neighbour and ask them if they could not use heavy machinery until 8am but remember they'd be doing you a favour. You've zero rights in this case as they're doing nothing wrong.

I’m judging them based on when the work is getting done. Legally certainly I agree it doesn’t appear they are in conflict with any law but I’m quite astounded, well in one sense that the law is not more stringent as regarding setting limits on when work of this nature can happen.

Strumms

sydthebeat wrote: »

7am is not early.

It simply is, in relation to the nature of the work being done.

Cheensbo

Strumms wrote: »

It simply is, in relation to the nature of the work being done.

Unfortunately this is just one person's opinion.. The majority disagree

Strumms

Strumms wrote: »

It simply is, in relation to the nature of the work being done.

Most people are awake at 7am. Either already in work or up and getting ready.

The noise sucks but the 7am doesn't really change anything. It would suck at 8am or 9am. It would suck at any time when on a night shift.

Noise wakes me when I'm working nights at weekends and the neighbors who work 9 to 5 are in their gardens cutting the grass, etc.

But the simple reality is that most people are awake at 7am and from what's bring described, the work will be done in a week.

Strumms

Cheensbo wrote: »

Unfortunately this is just one person's opinion.. The majority disagree

The majority ‘can’ disagree, such is the way in a democracy but I’d still be maintaining it is too early for ‘that’ type of work. It’s certainly my opinion

If the work being done is actually the catalyst for people waking up, unplanned from sleep at 7am... my own alarm is set for 8.10 it’s unsat regardless of bogey builders.

Lots of people in the area, are retirees, airport workers with 4/5am finishes I know two guys myself in that scenario... residents association WhatsApp quite busy this morning on the subject... some nifty suggestions from one girl who is a lawyer.

billybonkers

Strumms wrote: »

some nifty suggestions from one girl who is a lawyer.

What suggestions had she? Would be interested to know

Strumms

billybonkers wrote: »

What suggestions had she? Would be interested to know

I’ll leave that out of the public domain for now but we shall see what happens, she’s a go getter this one. :pac: I’ll keep you posted anyway.

JayRoc

All this mickey-measuring nowadays about how early everyone gets up is very celtic-tigery.

"I get up at 0620"
"0620? Sure half the day's gone! I'm up at the crack of four, after 9 mins sleep and I barely see the wife and kids #lovingthegrind"

Myself and the missus live in Dublin and are up at 8 (and that's always been the way even pre-lockdown).

Having a go at someone who isn't happy at being woken by construction noise at 7am is either virtue signalling or jealousy.

Cheensbo

I'd also be interested to know the suggestions, also to know what laws are apparently being broken.

The residents of the area seem to have excessive expectations when it comes to noise, especially temporary noise.

Strumms

JayRoc wrote: »

All this mickey-measuring nowadays about how early everyone gets up is very celtic-tigery.

"I get up at 0620"
"0620? Sure half the day's gone! I'm up at the crack of four, after 9 mins sleep and I barely see the wife and kids #lovingthegrind"

Myself and the missus live in Dublin and are up at 8 (and that's always been the way even pre-lockdown).

Having a go at someone who isn't happy at being woken by construction noise at 7am is either virtue signalling or jealousy.

Couldn’t agree more. #superherosyndrome is boring but very prevalent nowadays in work / corporate life...

Next... “hang on, bed ? , you want to sleep ? What ? The ‘majority’ of people ( who everybody knows ) don’t sleep” :eek::eek:

sydthebeat

Strumms wrote: »

Couldn’t agree more. #superherosyndrome is boring but very prevalent nowadays in work / corporate life...

Next... “hang on, bed ? , you want to sleep ? What ? The ‘majority’ of people ( who everybody knows ) don’t sleep” :eek::eek:

hilarious.. :D:D:D

this is YOUR thread.

youve been told that there is no law broken and that 7am is not considered too early.. yet you label these responses as #superherosyndrome

absolutely hilarious :D

#didntgettheanswerIwantedsyndrome

Cheensbo

You sound very reasonable, I'm sure you will prevail.

Let us know how you get on anyway, just make sure the lawyer is no-win, no-fee.

Strumms

sydthebeat wrote: »

hilarious.. :D:D:D

this is YOUR thread.

youve been told that there is no law broken and that 7am is not considered too early.. yet you label these responses as #superherosyndrome

absolutely hilarious :D

#didntgettheanswerIwantedsyndrome

You are correct 100%. I didn’t of course get the answer I’d have liked, but at least I know and am aware of the inadequacy of said law as it relates to the ordinary residents of the country.

s1ippy

We were woken for six months with loud drilling commencing every day at 7am including several Sundays.

We just moved and there are about 6 construction sites in the surrounding area again, but none right next to where we sleep fortunately.

It's maddening.

Trouser Snake

Have you or any of the WhatsApp group relayed your concerns to the owner of said building site? You will be living beside him in the future, surely your first point of contact won't be a letter from your "go getter" lawyer friend.

seannash

So I think we've established there's no law to stop them starting at 7am but having just recently finished a renovation I spoke with the builder and made sure they made no very loud noise til 8am.


Why don't you simply ask your neighbour to have a word. If they are any way decent I'm sure they will accommodate.
Personally I would find it annoying to hear loud noise first thing in the morning while I'm getting ready for work.

MOH

Niner leprauchan wrote: »

Most people are awake at 7am. Either already in work or up and getting ready.

The noise sucks but the 7am doesn't really change anything. It would suck at 8am or 9am. It would suck at any time when on a night shift.

Noise wakes me when I'm working nights at weekends and the neighbors who work 9 to 5 are in their gardens cutting the grass, etc.

But the simple reality is that most people are awake at 7am and from what's bring described, the work will be done in a week.

I genuinely find this bizarre. I don't think I've ever been up at 7am to go to work. Even with an hour commute I wouldn't be up before 7.30, and in by 9.

And that's considering a typical 9-5, where with the number of places on flexitime and the like a lot of places don't start until later. My office is probably busier at 18:20 than 9:20.

Plus with a lot more people working from home at the moment, with no commute, I find it a stretch to claim that most people are awake at 7am.

JayRoc

Cheensbo wrote: »

I'd also be interested to know the suggestions, also to know what laws are apparently being broken.

The residents of the area seem to have excessive expectations when it comes to noise, especially temporary noise.

Depends on what people consider temporary, too. I wouldn't be bothered kicking up a fuss about something that lasts a week or two. But if something is going to take longer than that, especially in a residential area where people would be entitled to expect peace and quiet (as opposed, say, to living in the IFSC or whatever) I think it would be a good idea for someone doing extensive work on their house to consider the feelings of their new neighbours.

Also, from my recollection, I believe planning permission will often contain a reference to what time of day works are permitted.

A couple of years ago, a large-ish building site in the middle of my estate was only granted PP on the basis they didn't start work before 8am. This was enforced by the council after the builders initially took the mick.

Cheensbo

MOH wrote: »

I genuinely find this bizarre. I don't think I've ever been up at 7am to go to work. Even with an hour commute I wouldn't be up before 7.30, and in by 9.

And that's considering a typical 9-5, where with the number of places on flexitime and the like a lot of places don't start until later. My office is probably busier at 18:20 than 9:20.

Plus with a lot more people working from home at the moment, with no commute, I find it a stretch to claim that most people are awake at 7am.

Lucky you, I dont think I've ever had a job that allowed me to get up after 7am.


One thing we can all probably agree on is that most construction workers are long since up at 7am

JayRoc

Cheensbo wrote: »

One thing we can all probably agree on is that most construction workers are long since up at 7am

Agreed! But that is their choice. Those of us who don't work in construction don't need to get up as early.

Cheensbo

JayRoc wrote: »

Agreed! But that is their choice. Those of us who don't work in construction don't need to get up as early.

That's your choice though?

Strumms

Trouser Snake wrote: »

Have you or any of the WhatsApp group relayed your concerns to the owner of said building site? You will be living beside him in the future, surely your first point of contact won't be a letter from your "go getter" lawyer friend.

I’ve no idea who the neighbor is, or will be. The house was sold in summer ‘19 had been super nice elderly folks there but both passed away within months of each other and has been idle with nobody living there ever since.

I’ve less concern with who WILL be living there but this fûcking AM shîtshow that’s happening now in the meantime.

listermint

Strumms wrote: »

I’ve no idea who the neighbor is, or will be. The house was sold in summer ‘19 had been super nice elderly folks there but both passed away within months of each other and has been idle with nobody living there ever since.

I’ve less concern with who WILL be living there but this fûcking AM shîtshow that’s happening now in the meantime.

it is your perception that you own recent works didnt annoy anyone. How do you know some of your neighbours were not complaining online or to their friends or other neighbours about you.

Here is some useful information, demolition takes a few days or maybe a week or 2 max, then its into build stage.

Sit back relax have a tea, this isnt long term so dont make it one by falling out with people. These could be genuinely new friends.

Cheensbo

listermint wrote: »

it is your perception that you own recent works didnt annoy anyone. How do you know some of your neighbours were not complaining online or to their friends or other neighbours about you.

Here is some useful information, demolition takes a few days or maybe a week or 2 max, then its into build stage.

Sit back relax have a tea, this isnt long term so dont make it one by falling out with people. These could be genuinely new friends.

^ This guy can explain it without sounding like a dick like I do :pac:

Strumms

listermint wrote: »

it is your perception that you own recent works didnt annoy anyone. How do you know some of your neighbours were not complaining online or to their friends or other neighbours about you.

Here is some useful information, demolition takes a few days or maybe a week or 2 max, then its into build stage.

Sit back relax have a tea, this isnt long term so dont make it one by falling out with people. These could be genuinely new friends.

They may have been. One unsuccessfully challenged my planning based on the addition to the house blocking their sunlight which was plainly an untruth it wasn’t going to and didn’t . But every consideration was made regarding neighbors in the process of planning, building and the carrying out of ALL works. there were people onsite at 8.00 for tea and talking and work commenced at 9.00 thereabouts.

Trouser Snake

So they were paid to sit around an hour drinking tea before they commenced work?

seannash

Trouser Snake wrote: »

So they were paid to sit around an hour drinking tea before they commenced work?

I'm assuming this is to my comment,
No they did work, just no banging or drilling. They could screw and fasten.
If you've ever worked in commercial occupied spaces you'd know there is designated quiet time. You have a window where you can drill and hammer during those hours but up until then the work was light.
Its not an alien concept in building, anyone who can organise a job site can work within these requests.

Strumms

Trouser Snake wrote: »

So they were paid to sit around an hour drinking tea before they commenced work?

They might have been slow drinkers. at a guess they’d have been using the time for some preparatory work and getting materials, tools and machinery together, not so much as a nail getting hammered though. Great job too, brilliant in fact.

Dudda

Trouser Snake wrote: »

So they were paid to sit around an hour drinking tea before they commenced work?

Two hours if they were due to start at 7am and didn't start until 9

Even doing prep work or not using noisy tools this isn't as efficient and does cost money even if it's not much.

Strumms wrote: »

.. some nifty suggestions from one girl who is a lawyer.

If we've all established that legally the builder is doing nothing wrong with regards the noise then all this lawyer can suggest is using tactics to cause problems and delays.

If you don't like living beside a building site I'd strongly question do you want to go down this route causing problems which might delay this project and result in you living beside a noisy building site for longer than originally planned.

JayRoc

Cheensbo wrote: »

^ This guy can explain it without sounding like a dick like I do :pac:

Ah I don't think you sound like a dick. I guess most people (yourself and myself included) tend to fall into the trap of presuming their lives, and the lives of the people they spend the most time with, are typical of the whole country.

Out of curiosity I looked for what the last census said. 365k people are out of the gaff by 7am. That's about 7% of the population.

Strumms

The slightly annoying part is that since about 11.00 there hasn’t been a fûcking scratch of a sound... when compared to the cacophony that shattered the tranquility just at 7.00 anyway...