Saving issues.

mycro2013

Hi,
Not sure if this the right thread for this.

Currently in the process of applying for a mortgage. My partner of a number of years seems to think that as I have the deposit saved she should not have the need to save a contributory amount and that my funds should be used for the application.

I've said repeatedly that a house purchase should be a team effort. Any views on this will be greatly appreciated as it a source of disagreement. Thanks.

strandroad

Is it a joint mortgage?

Xterminator

here is the thing. you are buying a house together and you have never even talked about finances seriously?

It is not necessary she contribute the exact same amount as you, its unlikely you are both earning exactly the same and your current expenses are identical, but you should at least have discussed what your expectations and financial priorities are. You know, have a plan?

My advice would be to slow down the house plans and work on the communications part. you both sound like you have different priorities.

RurtBeynolds

It's a 50/50 relationship. If she wants to buy a house with you, she should be putting up half of the deposit. End of.

wirelessdude01

She should be contributing a substantial amount. This should be related to what she earns.

You need to have a chat with her about finances going forward. Is she one of those people who tends to spend what they earn?

When we bought we contributed the exact same amount even though she earns more than I do. Having said that I'm a better monthly saver so it wasn't an issue.

eviltwin

Hard to say OP without knowing more. How long are you saving? How much do you both earn? What are her spending habits like? What’s the plan with mortgage payments? How serious are you about her?

When we bought our house I put up the entire deposit. He pays half the mortgage. It was just circumstances at the time meant I had savings and it wasn’t an issue. Depends on the relationship though. How long will it take her to save half?

mycro2013

wirelessdude01 wrote: »

She should be contributing a substantial amount. This should be related to what she earns.

You need to have a chat with her about finances going forward. Is she one of those people who tends to spend what they earn?

When we bought we contributed the exact same amount even though she earns more than I do. Having said that I'm a better monthly saver so it wasn't an issue.

I have being consistently asking her to put some cash aside for a mortgage. She spends what she earns I've ask her to get a part time job to get some additional temporary income while saving but she refuses point blank. I'm working overtime to get additional funds.

It was meant to be a joint mortage but her record of saving is non existent so I've applied individually as a house in the area has come available. Any time I bring up the finance issue she gets offended. I ve offered her the services of a financial advisor but no go.

bitofabind

OP financial incompatibilities are a leading cause of separation and divorce for couples. I broke up with a very long term partner because of not seeing eye to eye on this stuff and feeling like I was single-handedly responsible for the kind of future we would have together.

I’d be postponing plans to live together and purchase a property together before you’ve ironed out exactly who contributes what and what your needs and expectations are in this relationship. A frank conversation is badly needed here.

Pinoy adventure

50/50 otherwise it's a no go.why should you account for her lack of willingness too get this together.

osarusan

From your OP, I'm guessing she is in a position to save at least some money, but doesn't really. If so, it's also concerning is that she has gone through her working life so far with (apparently) little effort/intention to save for a home, whenever that day would come.

If she won't save for a home, she won't save for anything.

"Why should I save when you have already saved all the money we need?" is a shocking attitude tbh. As her getting offended by the suggestion that maybe she get some help with managing her money. And there is still a mortgage to be paid too. Does she expect you to cover that also?

Her lax attitude to saving would be a serious issue for me personally.

bobbyy gee

Get a joint bank account to save for house both put in 100 euro a week

screamer

She’ll expect you to pay the mortgage also.... don’t put that noose around your neck. Getting a mortgage is about taking on responsibility and it’s not something I would tie myself to with someone who seems to have 0 financial responsibility.
There’s bigger issues than a mortgage, you’ll need to talk with her and lay out your cards.

wirelessdude01

mycro2013 wrote: »

I have being consistently asking her to put some cash aside for a mortgage. She spends what she earns I've ask her to get a part time job to get some additional temporary income while saving but she refuses point blank. I'm working overtime to get additional funds.

It was meant to be a joint mortage but her record of saving is non existent so I've applied individually as a house in the area has come available. Any time I bring up the finance issue she gets offended. I ve offered her the services of a financial advisor but no go.

They realistically you need to have a long hard think whether ye as a couple are compatible long term with so differing views on finances. Money worries/issues are one of the main reasons/causes of marriage/relationship breakup. If she is like this over saving for a house, what will she be like when saving for a wedding or paying for children?

mycro2013

That is the point I've being try to convey to her. I'm current earning 2 times her earnings for a working week of twice hers. The rent she pays is proportional to her earnings with a 70/30 split. Which I think is a mistake on my behalf as I'm financing her over spending.

Sarn

Your partner should be making some form of contribution, taking into account earning potential. It can’t be left to just one half. Once the other is making a real effort in contributing, and not leaving it all to the other, I think that’s reasonable.

In relation to applying as a single applicant, that might make the person not on the mortgage reluctant to contribute without some security in place. I understand though why it might be necessary to apply as a single applicant.

ToxicPaddy

OP she sounds like she wants a gravy train scenario, gets everything but sacrifices nothing for it. You work your ass off, she gets the benefits of it.

As everyone has said here, mortgages are a 50/50 scenario, if she's not willing to even commit to saving the deposit, how is she gonna be with paying for furniture, fittings, appliances, carpets etc?

If I were you I'd inform her that you're buying the house, she can move in and pay a set rent every month as if she's like this saving, she will definitely be like this when it comes to paying the mortgage. I'd even go as far as putting everything in writing and have a standing order in her account into yours or a joint one.

A relative of mine had the same situation as yourself, they saved everything for the deposit, put huge money into the house they bought with their other half while the other half shopped abd partied, thinking they had it good.

Needless to say due to a lot of issues the relationship died a death, the relative paid their ex back what they put into the house which wasn't much and moved on with their life after a lot of stress and hassle.

osarusan

I don't think mortgages need to be a 50-50 scenario, that's a bit too rigid. But both partners should be looking to put in as much as they can.

It;s not just an issue of the amount of contribution here, there's a serious entitlement issue in play also.

ToxicPaddy wrote: »

If I were you I'd inform her that you're buying the house, she can move in and pay a set rent every month as if she's like this saving, she will definitely be like this when it comes to paying the mortgage. I'd even go as far as putting everything in writing and have a standing order in her account into yours or a joint one.

A relative of mine had the same situation as yourself, they saved everything for the deposit, put huge money into the house they bought with their other half while the other half shopped abd partied, thinking they had it good.

Even if this was to be the plan, I think that in the event that they live there as a couple for a ceretain number of years, she may well be entitled to a share of the house value in the event of the relationship ending.

This is a red line issue. I think you should break up with her as people like this don't change. She has zero respect for you.

road_high

No this is crazy and a bad omen for the mortgage...say she falls behind will it be you making up the shortfall as per the deposit? Think long and hard about this.
Sounds to me like she isn’t in the position to be taking on a mortgage- 50% of a deposit is not an unreasonable amount to expect a joint holder to contribute but if she doesn’t even have that much saved it doesn’t say a lot for her committing a mortgage going forward.
Say the house is €350k, 10% deposit would be €35k so €17.5k each- in this day and age that certainly not an overly onerous sum to expect someone to come up with after several years working. Sounds like she has other spending priorities like I’m guessing new car, shopping and socialising!!

Btw are you absolutely sure she has no savings? I’ve seen several of these little princesses before with friends etc that expect “the man provides” basically ala carte feminism if you will.
(Edit I’ve also seen it go the other way in case I’m sounding too sexist here - layabout guys sponging off women with great careers and means!)

SusanC10

I think you need to have a proper serious discussion on Finances and future plans.

It doesn't have to be 50/50 on everything but you need to have similar attitudes to money in general and shared goals.

When we bought our house, I was earning more than twice my then fiance now Husband but he had most of the deposit as he had lived with his parents for years and saved a lot. He was also only newly qualified.

Things have moved in swings and roundabouts for us in terms of earnings and I am now a stay-at-home Mum. We pooled everything once we got married which was a joint decision.

For what it's worth, you don't sound like you are financially compatible.

ToxicPaddy

osarusan wrote: »

I don't think mortgages need to be a 50-50 scenario, that's a bit too rigid. But both partners should be looking to put in as much as they can.

It;s not just an issue of the amount of contribution here, there's a serious entitlement issue in play also.


Even if this was to be the plan, I think that in the event that they live there as a couple for a ceretain number of years, she may well be entitled to a share of the house value in the event of the relationship.

Hey osarusan, I didn't meant 50/50 monetary value wise, I meant effort wise. Sorry for any confusion about that.

I completely understand that you have many couples where one can and often does earn more, sometimes substantially more, than the other.

As long as both make a decent effort to contribute what they can to the deposit, mortgage and fit out of the house then it shows both are fully committed.

road_high

mycro2013 wrote: »

That is the point I've being try to convey to her. I'm current earning 2 times her earnings for a working week of twice hers. The rent she pays is proportional to her earnings with a 70/30 split. Which I think is a mistake on my behalf as I'm financing her over spending.

Oh dear, so youve already committed to subsidising her already. Yes that was a mistake but you can see that now

backspacer

From reading this, this is a red line issue in my book, it's hard and stressful to save for a mortgage as is without everyone pulling in the same direction, and frankly the fact that she sees nothing wrong with no contribution to it is alarming.

You need to lay this out to her, and be willing to pull the plug on the relationship if needs be, a mortgage is a lifetime commitment and carrying it on your own will just add to stress if your other half is spending money with no regard for the commitment you will have taken on.

gifted

Warning signs all over the place.....get her to pony up at least half.......

mycro2013

Thanks for all the replies. Alot of information to take on board which will result in a very interesting conversation. In regards paying half the mortage she wpuld/will need to take out a loan for the amount which would be over 20k.

Her issue which I'm blue on the face from conveying is that she lives a champagne lifestyle on coca cola money.

wirelessdude01

mycro2013 wrote: »

Her issue which I'm blue on the face from conveying is that she lives a champagne lifestyle on coca cola money.

The above sparked something.

Do you mind me asking what/if any the age difference is between you?

A2LUE42

Massive red flags for continuing the relationship from what you have said. I know of a few couples further down the road who ignored the same flags. All have ended up the same. Resenting the partner who abdicates all financial responsibility. The sensible one is always the one saving and sacrificing and being made to feel guilty when trying to get the spender to see what they are doing. When kids come along it only gets worse and makes I much harder to separate. They have all said that if they knew then what they know now, they would have run a mile, despite loving their partners. They feel like surrogate parents with an extra spoilt child to look after.

Pinoy adventure

mycro2013 wrote: »

Thanks for all the replies. Alot of information to take on board which will result in a very interesting conversation. In regards paying half the mortage she wpuld/will need to take out a loan for the amount which would be over 20k.

Her issue which I'm blue on the face from conveying is that she lives a champagne lifestyle on coca cola money.

If she takes out a loan will she bother paying that back ?

road_high

mycro2013 wrote: »

Thanks for all the replies. Alot of information to take on board which will result in a very interesting conversation. In regards paying half the mortage she wpuld/will need to take out a loan for the amount which would be over 20k.

Her issue which I'm blue on the face from conveying is that she lives a champagne lifestyle on coca cola money.

I don’t understand the first bit- is the total mortgage only €40k? Surely not!

wirelessdude01

road_high wrote: »

I don’t understand the first bit- is the total mortgage only €40k? Surely not!

I'm guessing the deposit.

JeffKenna

road_high wrote: »

I don’t understand the first bit- is the total mortgage only €40k? Surely not!

I presume that's the deposit?

mycro2013

We are both the same age early 30's. A point raised by a2lue42 seems to be on point as anytime I raise the issue it's as if I'm the bad guy with none of her friends partners raising similar issues.

road_high

JeffKenna wrote: »

I presume that's the deposit?

Yea that's what i thought but I doubt you'd get a loan from any Financial Institution for a mortgage deposit? Unless at crippling interest rates.

road_high

mycro2013 wrote: »

We are both the same age early 30's. A point raised by a2lue42 seems to be on point as anytime I raise the issue it's as if I'm the bad guy with none of her friends partners raising similar issues.

Well other people's relationships aren't yours are they? If they all want to be doormats that that's their business (I doubt it's the case though).

Airyfairy12

From experience OP people like your partner expect to have everything paid for, there will be no gratitude or consideration of your wants, they simply put expect to have things handed to them. Whats your is hers and whats hers is also hers. You will be paying this woman's way for the rest of your life if you dont stand up to her.

qwerty13

mycro2013 wrote: »

We are both the same age early 30's. A point raised by a2lue42 seems to be on point as anytime I raise the issue it's as if I'm the bad guy with none of her friends partners raising similar issues.

I’d find that very difficult to believe. Not in this day and age.

Did you also say that you’re working twice the hours she is? Why is that? Is she doing a course or something?

wirelessdude01

mycro2013 wrote: »

We are both the same age early 30's. A point raised by a2lue42 seems to be on point as anytime I raise the issue it's as if I'm the bad guy with none of her friends partners raising similar issues.

Are all her friends living pay cheque to pay cheque while their fellas supplement their lifestyles?

KaneToad

It sounds like your partner only works part time. If so, why is that?

Hannibal_Smith

You're now applying for a mortgage, and you have a deposit saved.

Before you go any further any house purchase or mortgage application should be paused now, if you cannot agree on how the cost of a house deposit will be shared.

Your girlfriend cannot used borrowed funds to pay for a deposit. They must be from a non borrowed source.

It is not fair that you should have to foot the entire bill for the deposit, never mind any other costs. You're well within reason to ask that she make a certain contribution towards the house. That said, it would depend on her income and how much you need for where you want to buy as to whether its an even 50/50 split.

Pinoy adventure

wirelessdude01 wrote: »

Are all her friends living pay cheque to pay cheque while their fellas supplement their lifestyles?

There might be a sugar daddy supplementing there lifestyle

mycro2013

We both work full time, her working week is 30 hours and mine is 40 plus 12-15 hours overtime per week project depending plus commute.

strandroad

OP she is how she is and she is telling you that she is not going to change. If you don't want to fund her her entire life my advice is to break up. You can't fix it.

You can get your house on your own if it still suits you, it sounds like you are well able.

araic88

Just to add, even aside from the mortgage repayments, buying a house is expensive. If you have the deposit saved (well done!) the fees, furniture, appliances etc. really add up too, unless some are included. Does she have a plan to pay for/help pay for those.
Will she expect you to furnish it for her to her liking?
Could she be the type who is likely to get bored of the house in a few years & expect you to upsize?
Id have real concerns about this, lots to consider!

mabe

mycro2013 wrote: »

We are both the same age early 30's. A point raised by a2lue42 seems to be on point as anytime I raise the issue it's as if I'm the bad guy with none of her friends partners raising similar issues.

Other people are likely to have their own set of circumstances so it's irrelevant, major red flag , shows immaturity and avoidance of the issue. You can't move forward. Personally I'd walk away.

PHG

This above is spot on.

Imagine the hassle when you have to kit it out. From what you describe, she will want to be the designer but with not a lot of the cash injection, if any.

Myself and my gf are thinking of buying early next year. I earn a good bit more than what she does. However, we have agreed that if we were to break up that we split the place by proportion of deposit paid by both of us and we are getting that in a legal doc.

That said she turns up with random stuff for the current apartment if we need it and will do extras groceries and not ask for or expect a penny so can't see any financial worries, but still, if its not in writing it never happened!

Buy the house and really think about ending the relationship. If you need extra cash then rent out a room. It will cost you more to have her there than if she were not.

It is very tough to end a relationship and start again, but it is worse to just settle with someone because it is easier and will lead to both of you being miserable.

In case you do stay together... Please do not under any circumstances put her as an owner of the house until she can show financial maturity. Worse case you own the house and she pays you market rent for a room

Tork

I think you should seriously reconsider this relationship. She's telling you who she is and from where I'm sitting, it doesn't paint a very flattering picture. You do realise that you'll be the sole breadwinner in your home and that she'll have a legal right to some of it on a few short years. Tread very very carefully.

Does your family like her?

qwerty13

Did she grow up in a very traditional role household?

Have her parents been so generous to her that she expects others to just fall in line with whatever she wants?

Is she generous in other ways, like she does the bulk of the cooking, cleaning, grocery shopping etc?

How does she deal with any conflict (I know she makes you feel like the bad guy about the money discussions). But in general is she willing to talk things through, or compromise?

ILoveYourVibes

mycro2013 wrote: »

Hi,
Not sure if this the right thread for this.

Currently in the process of applying for a mortgage. My partner of a number of years seems to think that as I have the deposit saved she should not have the need to save a contributory amount and that my funds should be used for the application.

I've said repeatedly that a house purchase should be a team effort. Any views on this will be greatly appreciated as it a source of disagreement. Thanks.

It is a team effort. Do you think all of your money is all of yours solely?

You don't really have a partner then.

And you are NOT prepared to move in with someone. You should wait until you are older.

This is it

ILoveYourVibes wrote: »

It is a team effort. Do you think all of your money is all of yours solely?

You don't really have a partner then.

And you are NOT prepared to move in with someone. You should wait until you are older.

Where is the effort from the partner who wants to buy a house with the OPs money.

ILoveYourVibes

This is it wrote: »

Where is the effort from the partner who wants to buy a house with the OPs money.

She is probably contributing to the relationship in other ways. :rolleyes:

Different people bring different things to the table.

She brings herself.

His attitude is not acceptable in a grown man to me.

mycro2013 wrote: »

We are both the same age early 30's. A point raised by a2lue42 seems to be on point as anytime I raise the issue it's as if I'm the bad guy with none of her friends partners raising similar issues.

Yes I would expect that.

But you are not a BAD guy per say. That would be very judgemental.

I don't know what has developed your character and thinking about money etc. You seem tight to me. But that obviously isn't how you see yourself. That is my perception. Its an individual thing.

My brother for example pays for all the rent and expenses for his GF. All his friends do the same. In fact one of his friends married a girl from China and there the guy has to buy the woman a house before they get married. It took them much longer to do so ....if she had helped ...they could have gotten it much sooner.

Are you sure you really love her?

I mean if you loved her .... i don't think you would be thinking this way. You would want to give it to her. I think you should take pride in having saved the money yourself etc.

Its not uncommon for the guy to have a house or buy property before even getting engaged. Or to have the money.

You seem to want her quality of life to go down ....she should get another job etc work her fingers to the bone..to save when you already have the money. I don't think that's wise.

I honestly DONT think you have her best interests at heart. You don't want the best for her. But are concerned about protecting your money.

And that is probably how it seems to her. And she knows you already have the money etc.

I mean you realize when you marry etc she will own half of everything you own anyway right?

Same pretty much if you move in.

If you have an issue considering half the money you have hers. Don't move in with her. That would be my genuine fair advice to you.

It's clear that is the way she is thinking. Whether you agree with it or not.

I am not sure why you would move in with anyone knowing that if you feel this way about money. The best thing for you to do would be to buy the house yourself ...and not move in with her.

Is it possible she is from a wealthier background than you?

Zebrag

As someone who is saving myself and understands the struggles at times, this also sounds extremely disheartening. What's supposed to be an exciting process seems like it's going to have a huge impact all around. I understand saving for a house can be a lot harder for some people but when one is making all the effort and the other isn't bothered whatsoever and then is more than happy for one to pay for it all, it makes you wonder if its worth the hasle.

You could go the simple route, put the mortage in your name (all documents, insurance etc) and your partner pays her share of her mortage which will essentially be rent considering she hasn't contributed to saving and/or bothered to show any willingness to help along the way. Also, if you're petty enough (and I hope you're not because it's not going to solve anything) you can make it clear that she has absolutely no say whatsoever what happens to the house which then brings me to legal documents like wills etc you will have to be clear on who recieves the house and all that not fun stuff. That's a lot of thinking to do.

Or.

You could pay the mortage yourself and she pays for everything else, bills, shopping etc. Which I'm sure she'll be more than happy to do if that's how she wants to contribute. This could mean no arguments and it will literally be she pays for Internet, electricity, food shopping and so forth if this seems easier and will cause less arguments so you just need to worry about the mortgage but you say that she's a spender and doesn't care or think about money, then more than likely you'll end up finding something hasn't been paid and this will cause more issues. But that could just be me jumping the gun here and assuming the worst.

Or.

Have a serious sit down with her, tell her what she's doing isn't fair and make her see reality as in, the house will be in your name and all things considered if anything was to happen and somewhere down the line (this is going to sound morbid) but you were to pass away, she could be entitled to absolutely nothing. If you put it all in your name and pretty much shown she has no involvement then she really has nothing. If she can spend the next 6 months consistently saving and then adds that to your deposit then she's shown she is serious and is willing pay her way then all is fine and go ahead on your journey to finding your home.

I know people have said after a certain length of time she would be entitled to something and I'm sure that's true in cases but I would seek advice on this if you dead serious on wanting to buy a home. Moreso if you two did buy a home and then split up, there will be more arguments on who owns what and its just going to be fight after fight. Over time it will wear you down and it already is and you haven't even bought the house yet.

If I'm going to be personal here it really sounds like your partner has seen you've saved a good chunk and taught to herself sure why should I bother and wants to leave you to do all the paper work and will be more than happy to think SHE bought a house, it's OUR house she will say. Don't get me wrong, she probably is a really lovely person with a big heart and will do all she can in other aspects of the relationship but a house is a huge fiancial step and it's not a case of we have the receipt we can return it if things go wrong. Once names are signed, I's are dotted and T's are crossed, its official and you really don't want to be carrying the burden of your partners financial woes (over spending etc) along the way, causing you more stress.

I had a friend years ago (we don't speak now) who's partner bought a house and a year later he ended up walking out because she done absolutely nothing to contribute. Didn't pay bills. Didn't pay her part of the mortage. When I say nothing, I mean nothing. Was more than happy to flaunt her lifestyle and making everything think she had it easy. He had money left over from an inheritance added in with his savings and of course they decided to buy a house thinking it would make everything perfect. He was left to pay for everything and she demanded things to be done in the house. Renovations and all sorts. He ended up saying "Fcuk this" and walked out. He paid the mortgage for a year to make sure she saved enough to move out and he sold the house. It ended up causing other problems that didn't even need to happen. That itself was another long process for him but safe to say they don't talk anymore. It was sad to see but it's prime example of one person doing it all and the other thinking they have it easy.

OP have a good long think about what it is you want to do. I understand you love your girlfriend and that's lovely, but when it comes to buying a house, you'll soon find out exactly what she's like and it seems you already do know. You've your worries already before you've begun the process that itself shows you're already thinking ahead which isn't a bad thing at all but if this is your first concern then when you do buy a house, what will be your next concern? Asking her to set up a direct account to pay? Asking her if she paid a certain bill? Have a good long talk with her and a long think with yourself and it'll come to you.

Good luck OP

Also I don't think it's about being tight with money, it's about being realistic here. Why should one person put eveeything they have into something and the other sits back? As far as I'm concerned it's a two way street with help along the way. If she is willing to contribute in other factors of the home then that's fair enough she's not going to be totally selfish about it all but OP doesn't sound tight with money. Most couples save together, whether it being one saves more than the other or one has the amount there and the other just wants to add onto it but for one person to save and pay for it all, that's not really fair