Beef price tracker 2

mr.stonewall

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120933167#Comment_120933167

Just a quick question do you finish cattle and if so what % of your cattle sales goes straight to slaughter.

The whole issue is a complex one for farmers. Cattle can go out of spec quick, cashflow stocking rates etc

Cavanjack

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120932806#Comment_120932806

I don’t Think it was ever this bad so early before, maybe in October or November time but more than half the cattle would be gone at that stage so it was easy manage. Cattle only started on meal 2 weeks ago so have a bit to go yet. Will probably house half of them. Continental cattle 700kg plus and they are eating 6kg a day.

Dozer1

Put in a bunch of 650kgs heifers 2 weeks ago to finish em they haven't roared once to go back out and are tipping along nicely

DBK1

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120933167#Comment_120933167

I admire, or maybe more accurately I’m envious of, your innocence.

If I remember correctly from previous posts from yourself you buy cattle for summer grazing and sell again in the mart at the back end of the year? I’m afraid it’s the men at this job that are keeping the factory prices down.

The cheapest place for any factory to buy cattle is in the mart as unfortunately the majority of men selling in marts don’t understand how to calculate the factory value of their stock. Every animal over 450-500kgs that’s sold in a mart is reducing the factory price for finishers as the factory feedlots are buying them in the mart at less than their value.

I won’t even get into the economics of meal feeding over fat cattle or the various penalties as cattle go “over-age”.

smallbeef

Factories know exactly how many beef cattle are in the country and know how many are close to 24, 30, 36 months etc. Also they have feedlots primed and ready to fill any void by a farmer hold-back. I'm afraid they'll win that one hands down.

Long game has to be played to reduce the available stock in the country and keep cattle away from the feedlots. Leave the calves at the mart and carry what you buy to finish. Let Larry go rearing calves if he wants but don't do it for him and offer up your lovely reared stock for him to salivate over.

Bass Reeves

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120933167#Comment_120933167

I think like @DBK1 says you are very innocent. We can only hold cattle to an extent and the way the year is going it's not possible. Neighbour saw a load of Continental type bullocks 8 in a 14X8 box going for slaughter about 550 kgs. If the jad that owned them could have held them he would have.

Feedlots ( probably most contracted or semi contracted) have 25% of the national kill in the first six months. They can fill any gap for 2-3 weeks where do we go then. It will be the first of September by tgen

It's too late this year to arrange a strike as grass cattle would back up andtoo fast. Anyway if you bought the cattle in the spring and intend to sell in the autumn you are at nothing. It one thing to summer graze and finish, any lad summer grazing yearling to stores is just filling feedlots for the processors. You are buying at the most expensive time of year and selling at the lowest price point. Your are taking cattle from 250-300 kgs to the 450-500 forward store which is the supply feedlots thrive on. Consider as well you have added a movement onto cattle and that between you and the land that sold them to you there was 45 euro handed to marts and probably that or more handed to hauliers.

That has driven the like of me and @Jjameson out of the winter finishing game. If you want to make money out of beef what you buy you finish.

amacca

Will the problem be large numbers of poorly fleshed dairy xs coming on stream next year.....

cute geoge

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120934055#Comment_120934055

Who will have a problem with them sure the beef men will be able to tbuy hem as stores for next to nothing so who is it going to be a problem for?

Bass Reeves

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120934055#Comment_120934055

I am drifting away from them at present as I think they are slightly over priced. Things like that are a one year wonder. The year after the calf/store man is paid less who then will not buy the dairy men's calves. The correction then is the dairy man holds the calf until three months or more.

White Clover

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120934075#Comment_120934075

Maybe they will make their true value.

somewhat disappointed

Last year I more than doubled my initial Financial outlay so I can't be going too far wrong. What you think l will always fight for a higher price for Farmers who need a Financial boost.

StevenToast

With the way prices are going I am giving some consideration to letting a batch of AAX and HEX (18) go overage and finish them before they are 36 months next Feb/Mar.....

I should have enough grass for them upto December and then finish or put in the shed for a few weeks....

They would pile on some weight and the price will surely recover somewhat....

Any logic to this...they are nicely fleshed at the moment, not sure how overfat they could get?

I paid a good price to the Farmer in Feb for them and id be lucky to get my money back on them the way things are going......

smallbeef

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120934642#Comment_120934642

What weight are they now? If they are nicely fleshed and 600kg+ you'd be better of letting them go. Don't think you'll get the HE and AA bonuses over 30 months also. You should be able to pick up cheap replacements in a month or two that would be easier to winter and would increase value more over the winter.

StevenToast

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120934763#Comment_120934763

Ya...theyd be hitting 600kgs now...

I think that is a fair point about buying in cheaper replacements in a couple of months...

Thanks

Danzy

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120934763#Comment_120934763

I'm doing that, going to kill early January, I've, please God, a trip to the maternity ward in the spring so I want the shed empty early on.

Saw over age and over fat heifers make as good as factory price in the mart this week, big whx but that might be different next week never mind next Jan.

I'm not too fussed either way, a sad state of affairs but I think if there weren't times you wouldn't dip in enthusiasm in beef you'd be a hard machine

Robson99

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120934335#Comment_120934335

This year you will be very lucky to get what you paid for them in the spring. The arse is going to fall out of store cattle over the next 3 months

Bass Reeves

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120936509#Comment_120936509

It might seem logical but with Hereford and AA cattle it depends on how much of the AA and HE bonus you lose. Generally the HE bonus is 10/kg locally but is not paid on over 30 months . The AA will probably pay part of the bonus over 30 months but it's 10c instead of 20c/kg.

Off a 4.65/kg base you get 4.83-4.93 for HE and AA cattle grading O+.

Even give that they grade R next February at a base of 5/kg you are looking at a price of 5.08 and 5.18 for HE and AA off that base.

@StevenToast the first loss is usually the cheapest loss. Say you carry them to February you are facing into the same mistake as last Spring paying too much for stores

You will buy around the edges at present and pick you coloured cattle for 2.2-2.4/ kg. They will do 100+ kgs cheap gain on grass, they will need no meal.over the winter and hit grass next spring. You will have a better chance of having some of them gone by July.

I am dribbling cattle into the factory in bunches of 2-4 getting no spectacular price but replacing as I go along. Have 40 cattle bought for net year. Have three tall HO bullocks that will not be hung until next June. The stores are probably averaging 650/ head and are 50/50 Friesians and Continental's.

Anto_Meath

Friend rang the factory just over a week ago to get in a mix of 20 cattle which included 5 cull suckler cows. Was told to ring back today & they might be able to take them next week. I was standing beside him in the Mart yesterday & the factory rang him to see if he could have the 5 cows down for 6 this morning. He told them if he was going with 1 he was bringing all. They told him come on. They must be short of stock.

somewhat disappointed

Surely Cattle prices have to go up the Turks will be back for our Weanlings and Factories will have to get in line if they want the flesh?

kk.man

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120939691#Comment_120939691

No why should they...if I was a factory owner I wouldn't... they control the UK and Ireland kill. They now have a massive feedlot to pull from. They will have the margins protected at all costs.

Siamsa Sessions

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120940214#Comment_120940214

Correct.

As @wrangler often said on here, factories could pay even less and they’d still have lads lining up to give them cattle.

Farmers are always on a slippery slope towards cattle going overage, over fat, over-stocked and need to buy replacements, silage running out, grass getting scarce, etc.

You can’t pause nature and factories have built their empires on that fact.

Rusheseverywhere

https://ahdb.org.uk/news/why-have-gb-beef-prices-fallen

From only week ago

"With Irish cattle supplies expected to tick up towards the end of the year, and demand forecast to remain subdued in key export markets, this may point to further pressure on Irish prices."

The last sentence of article.

kk.man

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120941087#Comment_120941087

Irish cattle puts manners on the British price. Its vital to have meat plants in both jurisdictions.

StevenToast

How bad is it this week?

Bass Reeves

Send what I would consider my worst load of bullocks to the factory yesterday. All Friesians those small butty ones that will neither grow, finish or put on weight. There was also an 38 month old Bullock that that we bought as a single that we were not watching the board probably regarding his age.

1XO=......4XO- and 2XP+. Three were over 30 months so QA on three only.

Average DW weight 305kgs from 293-336kgs. 38 month Bullock lightest.

Average LW at purchase 345kgs

Average cost 580 inc fees

Average length of time on farm 11.5 months.

Average factor price 1335 net of slaughter fees

Gross return 755 euro

Net margin 305 euro allowing 450 costs (472 inc mart and Slaughter fees)

They did ok grading saved the bacon IMO probably very marginal on that bunch. However they wouldn't be gone without feeding for about 7-9 weeks which depended on when they went into the finishing bunch.

MIKEKC

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120962572#Comment_120962572

Is 450 not a big high for the length of stay on farm. Thought 400 should cover it

Bass Reeves

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120962933#Comment_120962933

I would not like to be fooling myself. I will probably feed slightly over 200kg/head at a bit over 70 euro at present it's 35c/kg of ration. However they wouldn't be out the door without it. Too many push up the meal bill too few reduces the output. While I have reduced numbers from last year my output (numbers) would be high for a grass based system especially for poor conversion animals.

450 it is.

MIKEKC

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120962986#Comment_120962986

Thanks for that info .Must go through my costs again. Buy 450 kg in autumn selling from now on . Feed meal for first winter. Would be very hard to feed meal at grass. Would get trampled on at my age.

Bass Reeves

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120963014#Comment_120963014

Feeding meal at grass is all about set up. If they are used to an electric fence you can fence them out while you fill the troughs or fence a corner outside the gap to feed them in.

I had two bunches feeding 17 in one and 15 in the other. I was feeding them inside the gaps most of the time except during the very wet weather.

I am 61. I do not feed meal in the shed while housed

I says

I’ve to tighten up my paddock grazing and grazing groups. Horsing meal into the heaviest cattle to keep them fit, grass quality has got away from me.

More water troughs and pigtails for next year.

Hard Knocks

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120963100#Comment_120963100

I use the tall white posts when strip grazing the meadows this time of year in a leader follower system. Once you get the calves trained they fly. Leaves it easier to wean when at grass too

MIKEKC

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120963100#Comment_120963100

74 here with two new knees so need to watch myself.

Aly Daly

I am looking for a bit of advice as a hobby beef farmer,I normally only keep friesans but there is a big tall Blonde bullock (approx 720kg) who will be 30mths on September 5th.I don't intend to sell the friesan bullocks until oct/Nov,would I lose much letting him go over 30 months to stay with the others.He is on very good grass but has had no meal as yet,I intend to start feeding everything this weekend,the farm is QA.Thank you in advance.

Bass Reeves

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120967605#Comment_120967605

If he has not got fat cover on him I be holding him. If he has fact cover hang him under the thirty months.

Dickie10

are there many non suckler beef farmers on this forum? like beef farmers that dont calve cows? it kind of puts me off all the beef open days like Grange etc, they seem to be dominated by talk about sucklers cows, bulls and breeding and very little on systems like buying in weanlings and yearlings to finsh systems. anytime you ask questions on it the advisors sound like their bluffing a lot? is it more economics and business more than science and thus they get a bit stuck for answers?

epfff

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120967605#Comment_120967605

Very little.

In theory your QA will drop from 20 to 8 cent so you lose 12 cent.

From my experience of blonde cattle they are slow to flesh. You description of 'big tall' would suggest he is true to his breading and will take feeding to hit 2+ or better fat score so you need to feed on.

After feeding he should grade better and ko better so you have chance of getting some of your loss back.

Dunedin

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120967605#Comment_120967605

 Steers and heifers aged 30 to 36 months grading will attract a payment of 8c/kg provided all the in-spec criteria (above) are met so basically You’ll lose 12 cent.

but if he’s not fit then you’re better off keeping him and feeding him on.

Bass Reeves

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120967662#Comment_120967662

Good few on here that have different beef system from calf to store to beef.

Problem with Teagasc and most other beef advisors they are all calf to beef systems and most are high cost systems on fairly good quality or better land.

They are generally pushing high output systems involving finishing under 24 months. With the drop in quality in dairy bred cattle they tend to not realise the implications of it.

As well the amount of lads that do. Alf to beef are few enough. It's mostly calf to store or store to beef systems.

Costs are the killer in farming systems. It's often not possible to recover any margin( actually many high costs system reduce profitability) from higher costs and these system.often involve a serious workload. For instance in the demo farms they often bring cattle I to the yard to feed them them during the finishing period off grass every day to feed ration.

That is hugely time consuming as you have to wait for them to finish before hunting them back out again.

This forum is pretty good different lads doing different systems. Ask away any questions and we will see if we can answer them.

charolais0153

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120967662#Comment_120967662

https://www.teagasc.ie/media/website/publications/2015/Beef-Production-System-Guidelines.pdf

what more can teagasc do, everything they could possibly give you regarding , grassland management,animal husbandry is available for free . in grange newford or any of them places, all the cattle are slaughtered, so a weanling or yearling to finish system happens just after the cattle are weaned

Bass Reeves

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120967605#Comment_120967605

I always think its a mugs game trying to finish Friesian after September. You need really dry weather to have any chance. If they are heavy they need 5+kgs of nuts and probably access to silage as well.

I try to have most finished by end of September. Actually I slaughter the vast majority under 30 months most at an O- grade.

A Friesian Bullock will only break even at best from September on IMO. If you slaughtered Friesians over the last 4 weeks at an average of O-grading you got 4.5-4.7/kg. By now the vast majority are gone over 30 months unless they grade O= you are looking at a price (assuming they drop the base another 20-30c at a price of 4-4.15/ kg for O- grading Friesians

I have killed 27 friesians mostly under 30 months since mid May they have averaged above 1583 euro along with 3 over 36 month animals that averaged 1780. The underage ones would need need to hang 385 kgs to make that in October/ November at a 4.1 base They have averaged about 70/ head in ration costs. Across the lot they have averaged about 340 kgs DW

Aly Daly

Thanks for the advice, I will hang on to him,this is an excellent forum.

Aly Daly

You certainly have the figures down to a tee i will try & digest them further,I buy forward stores in Jan/Feb 25mths approx,I factory them mid October normally, about this time of year I start to feed 3kg & further into the Autumn 6kg.I have them close to the yard & I will put them in the shed on hay on really miserably wet days, I am on dry ground. I often have d/w of 440kg approx kilos @o=/3+.I try to buy British friesans around the 500kg mark.I am not making any sort of money but I love having them around the place.I will take a picture of a few of them if you would be interested to see them,they are starting too look like fine fellas & the nuts will improve them further obviously,I am sure my system is flawed in a lot of ways but they are certainly well looked after.

Bass Reeves

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120967989#Comment_120967989

That is great weight off grass and you obviously have a good eye buying them. If you are buying them for summer grazing system you probably need to keep them as long as possible. Getting them I to the yard is handy to feed for last 6-8 weeks is handy as well.

You probably graze out the complete farm. In October/ November and cannot get to grass until mid April. If you hand is decent the only change I would make is close some area from early October on so you can get out to gras earlier

Aly Daly

I have a paddock system &

20230812_114132.jpg

20230812_114118.jpg

20230812_114103.jpg

to explain it when they leave a paddock they wouldn't be back on it for a month maybe 5 to 6 weeks in strong growing period.It is topped & fert only if necessary.Here are pictures of the Blonde(29mth),a bw that I like[27mth) & in my opinion a good friesan(29mth).

StevenToast

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120968770#Comment_120968770

Lots of potential to pile on weight....nice stock...

Siamsa Sessions

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120968867#Comment_120968867

It’s around the rump and along the short ribs that they put down flesh to finish, is it?

(I’m trying teach myself about finishing and fat scores)

Aly Daly

What I notice here with very heavy factory fit cattle is:

Hip pins fleshy,fistful of fat over the ribs,big dewlap,fat in the scrotum.

Bass Reeves

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120969065#Comment_120969065

You are probably feeding to a high level finish. Looking at the cattle I be feeding the HEX at present to get a good level.of finish at under 30 months. I have been feeding the Blonde for the last 8-10 weeks so as that he finished under 30 months and you did not enter the autumn glut and downward price spiral.

Those are good types of Friesians 6-8 weeks feeding would have finished them.under 30 months.

As a matter of interest what is your regime for them from now to slaughter amount of ration, access to silage etc.

1848

From late July onwards need to feed meal to finish off grass - 3 kg will do it. Good quality grass essential - 1500kg/ha cover. Allows most cattle to be sold by mid Oct. After that they need to be housed to finish them - different game. At this time of the year you need good carcass weight. Aim 400kg + with continentals, 350 kg Fr - cattle approaching 30 months.

Aly Daly

The hex will finish under 30 months ok,the Blonde will go overage as I have not started feeding as will the friesans who I feel never really get going until over 30 months.These cattle have good quality grass ahead of them & I can usually keep them out until mid October where I either sell or bed on straw & feed good quality baled silage that I buy locally,I would normally have them gone latest mid November,clean the sheds for the arrival of the new guys from the mart in Jan/Feb if the ground is reasonably dry.Cattle are finished on 3kg to 6kg nuts over either 60 or 90 days mid August on.