Beef price tracker 2

Dunedin

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117756133#Comment_117756133

Can anyone who is in a calf to beef or store to beef system put up the costs of keeping same per head as I’d love to see that to compare against the cow costs.

Grueller

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117756354#Comment_117756354

That might not be the best one for comparison Dunedin. I know I am high in places and a lot of those figures are 2 years old but it is a genuine effort and like I say, pick holes away, I won't be arguing or defending them. I would love to hear ways to reduce them.

Base price

Five or six years ago I put up our costs for rearing calves to weaned off milk and onto grass. These were Spring born (feb/mar) bought in FR bull calves (14 to 20 odd days old direct ex farm) and at the time we were paying 22.5c/l (125g/l) for a 30% skim, 22%P, 15%Fat cmr. Including crunch, straw, bovicox and a single shot of Rispoval intranasal but didn't include purchase price, losses, Vet or any other costs it worked out at €89 per head. Those costs was spread over 200/250 calves annually and we got discounted prices for all the inputs due to the numbers/volume/payment terms.

Bass Reeves

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117756354#Comment_117756354

Store to Beef I have costed it at 350/ head that buying one summer/Autumn and finishing following summer/ early autumn. One advantage of stores- beef or calf to beef is you have higher units to spread costs over

morphy87

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117756831#Comment_117756831

What so you have 350 a head for your self when everybody is squared up?

the system your doing buying in the autumn and selling the following year is probably the best,

morphy87

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117757002#Comment_117757002

I actually done well in 18,the cattle weighed very well and I got a good price where in 19 with the protest my cattle went over age and I spent alot on meal

morphy87

Any news on prices for this week and what were cattle bought for last week?

cute geoge

Only a handful of cattle I have myself but great interest in the way they grade and k/o .Looking at local mart the last day 500 kg good wh dairy bred bullock was less then 2kg .These were good frame how long would it take these likes to get to 700kg .would you get them to 550kg before winter housing

Bass Reeves

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117756973#Comment_117756973

No costs would be 350/ head. Last year I had a gross margin between store price and sale price of over 600/ head so net Marin was between 260 and 300/ head. I run a low cost system no ration over the winter just silage and minerals. Stores are fed a maize/ hulls/LP barley mix for last 8ish weeks on average.

This year as I ended up buying a lighter stores last winter ( average cost 605 average weight sub 400 kgs) I find I am feed ration a few weeks longer. However gross margin will reflect extra ration expect to be up at 700/ head gross margin

minerleague

Just a couple of points - I run a very extensive set-up here so costs per cow would be a lot smaller than most but my profit/ acre might be lower. Also a lot of times in journal etc they set out profit including premia and excluding. Know why they do this but just for myself the level of premia dictates how I farm. Fair play to anyone who puts their figures up , wish I was as organised as that

wrangler

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117758027#Comment_117758027

You're unlikely to have 700 gross margin between sale and buy back, that's the gross margin that counts and which will be reflected in your bank account.

Dunedin

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117756831#Comment_117756831

What’s the make up of that €350 per head.

Bass Reeves

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117758598#Comment_117758598

I have done it out a couple of times. Approximately it as follows

Winter feeding costs are 120/ head

Summer grazing costs are 100/ head

Ration is about 60/ head

Vet/ Transport/mortality 30/ head

Misc 40/ head

Dunedin

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117759091#Comment_117759091

You and I have had this conversation before. Until you include the same costs that all others include in the cost of suckler cow then it’s apples and aeroplanes you’re comparing. and I’ll list a few of them to make it easy on you:

slurry, insurance, diesel, hedge cutting, tractor costs, depreciation, building repairs, professional fees, jeep doe, tractor tax jeep tax , etc.

I know your response will be that you don’t have these costs but sure anyone can say that. I accept that some of the costs are hard to quantify such as depreciation or in the case of repairs in a year that there might be none but simply they are costed within the suckler cow so to compare like with like, they have to be included in all systems to give the full overview.

morphy87

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117758670#Comment_117758670

I actually forgot that,I also got the 100 a head on the cattle I sold in 18, I think the base price when I sold was 3.80 plus the 12 cents,

morphy87

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117758027#Comment_117758027

I think that’s the important bit,a low cost system

Bass Reeves

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117759185#Comment_117759185

IMG20210815191036.jpg

Above are my short form 2019 and 2020 accounts. Two notes the higher ration costs on 2020 accounts are for cattle finished out of the shed. In year 2019/2020 I had to finish some cattle out of the shed due to strike and bill was not settled until 2020, also at end of 2020 I again finished a few( as I posted earlier this year it's the last time it will happen). In 2020 I finished about 70 cattle. However I dropped numbers to 60 for this year.

There is no fertlizer costs in 2019 accounts as I bought it in 2018 accounts. Taking away my premia from 2020 accounts leaves me with slightly over 24.5 k or 352/ head profit after direct costs ( feed , baling, slurry, transport, plastic ration etc)

What is left them is fixed costs and what ever you want to put down for electricity, phone car and fixed costs. I said I had a net margin margin 260-300/ head. At 280/ head it leaves 72/ head to cover these costs Which is about 5k.

I think I gave a fair representation of my farm profitability. As well if you look I have a variable closing stock of 65-70 k, it means at present if I ever decide to exit I can sell most of my cattle without a huge tax liability

morphy87

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117759310#Comment_117759310

I think that answers any doubts people had about your profits or margains involved in your system

wrangler

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117759310#Comment_117759310

A farmer considering your system would need to add €150/acre fixed costs to your costs because that's what he'll have.

and that's the least fixed costs he'll have, with abit of development it'd be a lot more

kk.man

Just a quick one... What's the max I could feed finishing bullocks in the one feed kgs? (I'm feeding a maized based 12%p atm).. They have been getting 4kgs for the last while?

I don't want to feed twice a day as I don't have time.

Cavanjack

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117759745#Comment_117759745

Could feed 6kg in the one go if they are good big bullocks. Feeding 5kg here atm to continental bullocks but fed 6kg back in 18 during the drought. Problem with feeding in the evening time again is that they are waiting around all day for it all day and eat damn all grass.

kk.man

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117759828#Comment_117759828

Thanks.. Mine are/will be 21 months fr bullocks

Bass Reeves

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117759390#Comment_117759390

I would if I was spreading my own slurry, cutting my own silage owned a hay Bob or a turner, had a LC a 12 or 14 foot box as well as a tractor box and a post driver......but I don't

Most sheds are deprecated over 8 years. Mine are already deprecated. However what's the true cost of a shed. I have a shed that will hold 100+ stores ( originally it was build to hold 40-50 stores and 40 finishing stock. I realized a few years ago finishing numbers was mugs game, last year again proved that to me.

Shed and silage slab cost about 135k, over two development phases, 62.5 k in grant aid was drawn down, 17-18k in vat was reclaimed. This gives a net cost of 55k. This shed will last 60+ years giving a yearly cost of 900/ year or 15 euro/ store if there is only 60 stores in it. However it was deprecated at the high tax rate before I retired giving a net cost after tax of 28k or about 8 euro/ store over 60 years and that is at about 60% capacity.

I bought the land I have not inherited it. Therefore I had higher development costs earlier in its development than lads who inherit land had not got or the outlay on the shed was higher than that if I had inherited land with some facilities and machinery on it. But there is an old farmhouse that is done up and earning 9k in rental income.

wrangler

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117759431#Comment_117759431

Actually no, I know that profit monitor for beef farmers claims at least €400/ha for fixed costs, my fixed costs would be higher because I spend the farm profits foolishly and have depreciation on tractor, jeep, machinery, buildings, to put up fixed costs. I've a huge hatred of paying tax

Grueller

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117760292#Comment_117760292

That is €160 per acre. That would leave it at €160 per cow and calf combo. You would stock 2 short keep cattle on the same patch near enough.

wrangler

For a gross margin of €600 they'd need to be there close to a year so 2 twenty four mth old cattle are 2 livestock units, not many beef framers at 2lu/acre.

I'm just trying to highlight that it's not all rosy for new farmers starting out in undeveolped farms, even teagasc will highlight fixed costs in costings. a neighbour here with 50 acres thought he was making money until his tractor burnt last week, now he has to find 20000 to replace at a time when he's developing the farm.

If you think you're making money drystock farming you've over looked something

Grueller

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117760381#Comment_117760381

Absolutely but the finishing cattle will be eating some meal likely reducing grass demand and a suckler cow plus calf is about 1.2-1.3 lu averaged over the year iirc. You will certainly carry 1.5 per cow and calf combination. At a €600 gross margin that is €900 per acre gross margin. You would be a fair good suckler man to make that.

Bass Reeves

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117760447#Comment_117760447

I put in 24HA for the BPS. I have managed 70 bullocks on it, but at present I down to 60. Best case scenario is I think I could carry 40 Suckler cows if I was selling weanlings, if I was keeping the calves to finish I have 25 max.

Off forty cows would I have 38/39 calves to sell each year?. If I kept replacements out of my heifers I be back to 32 calves to be sold. If I finished my cows I be carrying maybe 40 cows and 6 culls as well as a bull hanging around at times.

All in all I think I would be under more pressure with 40 Suckler cows. If I was carrying everything to finish I be maxed out at 25 cows probably 1-2 below it. The vet costs of a suckler operation are much higher than mine. In reality with 35-40 suckler's I would be herd testing 80+ animals. I am testing 60 and that is 50% of my vet/ medicine bill usually.

Housing costs of 40 suckler's allowing for calving pens and stocking rates would be higher as well I can get 16 stores on a 20' slatted pen( 16'6'' slats).

A store will eat around 4 bales/ 120 day winter maybe a bit less if bales are virtual haylage. I feed minerals but they are generic compared to what is need for cows and calves. Every animal is producing beef you have no bulls.

The costs in a simple calf or store to beef system are totally different to a cost/ cow in a Suckler system and you have number and turnover to defray costs as well

893bet

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117759920#Comment_117759920

off topic but I thought sheds are usually over 15 years? Can you choose to depreciate them over 8?

Bass Reeves

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117760889#Comment_117760889

I see most of mine deprecated over 8 years. However most of my build took place in the 2008-10 timeframe and I think there was accelerated depreciation for buildings for environmental reasons. I think you could deprecate at up to 33%