Beef price tracker 2

weatherbyfoxer

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123030598#Comment_123030598

My cattle never graded so well this year since they were all sold flat..loads of R grade aa x fr which never happens when the same stock were sold on the grid every previous year

nearlybreak

6:10 flat for continentals all ages and weights 6:20 flat for Hex and AAs both bullocks and more for big numbers factories under woeful pressure

Siamsa Sessions

If a decent flat price is offered, then I'd be inclined to view 'on the grid' like a trip to the casino - the house always wins!

Anto_Meath

@kk.man I would be of the same opinion. I am convinced that some factory are rolling the grade back a notch, in that an R- is now grading an O+ but they have knocked the fat score on a notch as I have had 4+'s bullocks this year which I would never have had.

leoch

But could they just knock a few kilos of weights just as handy as rig the grades ??

kk.man

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123030923#Comment_123030923

Certain plants have been over jealous with neck and brisket hence lower weights

Pinsnbushings

What is available for Angus heifers and fr cull cows? Normally go to the Mart as traditionally did better but tempted by factory if I could get a flat price. They aren't quite fit I think but no expert..not under pressure with silage but I'd like them gone before calving. Small numbers.

Anto_Meath

@leoch

Most factory would have a tar on the scales for the hook of 5kgs, so when there is nothing on the scales it reads -5kgs. Everyone who sees that on the scales always asks why and it has to be explained. So that's properly why they don't do.

kk.man

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123030906#Comment_123030906

Yeah loads All summer that were priced on the grid cane back 60% ps rest rs. Final load all flat priced came back 100% os ....it's magic really 😂

Good loser

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123030829#Comment_123030829

Fantastic prices. We are blessed with our factories! Long may they thrive.

Cavanjack

Surely now is the time for our leaders to rip into the factories and get a few things sorted for the bad times.
After the last blockade they agreed to give the liveweight of cattle before slaughter. Hasn’t happened yet.

The qps is a joke. It was Set up when beef was probably €3 a kg (I can’t remember when). 6cent increments should surely be 12 now?

In this day and age we should be getting some sort of images of cattle being graded immediately to our phones as they go up the line.
Electronic transfer of money on the day of slaughter. These cheques are a joke,

Bass Reeves

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123030923#Comment_123030923

DFAM are supposed to check weights and grades in all processors regularly. To fiddle weights they carry the risk of being caught as a couple of Dawn factories were 10+ years ago

893bet

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123031701#Comment_123031701

Plus the amount of people that would need to “know” to pull of a fiddle like this would be huge. Factory scale is too big for a small fiddle.
It’s more likely to be a large scale fiddle grading machine calibration but I think that is doubtful intentionally as the risk is too high.

Robson99

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123031979#Comment_123031979

What's to stop 5 / 10kgs weight being taken off when it's being put up on system for payment ?…scale might read 325kg but your payment sheet could show 320kg

Cavanjack

I do agree that we need more clarity on grades but in fairness I don’t think there is anyone going round the factory saying these are jacks cattle, he’s on a flat price grade them u’s and the next cattle are bass’s he’s on the grade grade them bad.

kk.man

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123031979#Comment_123031979

Let's be straight here, there's people in those plants who want to be the next Larry, the next Bert, the next Noel etc who would be the most loyal to their employer. When in fact their employer sits on mega wealth and couldn’t give two f<'#ks about them. Little pawns complying. Anyone close to the Irish beef factory system who can view the world objectively would agree.

kk.man

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123031701#Comment_123031701

The DFAM officials are useless and are regularly bullied by the aforementioned 'pawns' so for a peaceful life they find a compromise.

kk.man

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123032090#Comment_123032090

I get what you are saying but haven't experienced a 19 Freisian bullocks 20 months old all grade o in 2024 given the genetics of our dairy herd is just mad. I was expecting 6/7 ps. I've know too much about Freisian cattle at this stage to know the difference between a p and o.

Siamsa Sessions

We're arguing about the details when the elephant in the room is lack of competition between factories.

The "mergers" and "consolidation" as the IFJ call them mean the whole system is controlled by three companies. In this situation, there's no competition for cattle - factories are free to grade and weigh animals whatever way they like. What can the farmer do? Go to one of the other two factories where he knows he'll get the same treatment?

I'm assuming there's not wide-scale tomfoolary going on in the factories, especially as they've the game sewn up already. But how are we to know when the Dept only do token inspections?

The Govt talk about encouraging enterprise but they've set up a communist system of control for multi-billion euro companies. Free market me a*se.

Bass Reeves

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123032001#Comment_123032001

Because the carcasse is hanging in the cold room for 2-3 weeks after the cheque issued. If there carcasses are weighted or the checked for trim in between then the processor is in deep sh!t. They would have to falsify department returns for cattle. As well more and more lads have scales and if the figures from a particular processor was serious out of line with there scales then they could get the carcasses checked. Easier to screw on base price and fiddle on the grading.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123032090#Comment_123032090

IMO I think the processors fiddled the grades more this year than ever. Yes weight were an issue off grass but I definitely had too many FS's 2=/+ even one 2-. Never an issue this year with HE/AA always at leat FS3 even though a few were bare enough compared to there companions that were penalised.

At present they may be recalibrating the grading machines ( they always recalibrate as shed cattle take over the kill to allow for different fat colour). They are under pressure at present with having to buy a lot through the marts as lads do not trust the FS and grades. For the first time in about ten years I will probably get a flat price for bullocks. From 2019- early 2023 I had no issue with grades and FS. It has significant deteriorated in the last 16-17 months with this summer being horrendous.

On widening the grid payment while it might suit you less than 10% of cattle grade U or better and it's mostly bulls which are flat prices anyway. A widening of the grading units from 6 to 10c would put a P+ bullock 5Oc off the base if he was FS2+ it's 60c

An O+ woukd be 20c off the base and an O= 30c. The processors would need to be paying a bonus for supermarket specification cattle. At present while they want heavier cattle it's mainly in the 330-400 kg bracket not above it

Bass Reeves

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123026011#Comment_123026011

Sorry did not get to reply until now. I am not a teacher or an ex teacher either. I am an ordinary thicko who left school like many in the 70's at a young age never even went to college just did an apprenticeship. Yes I was stocked at 170 until this year but because I doubled my land base I am not this year. Similar to him cash flow and time of year would not allow me to buynmy normal preferred animals when I stared to increase numbers Dec/Jan 12 months. I put in about 5O cattle for about 18k virtually spot on and that was even stretching the budget.

I have no interest in winter finishing did it wore the T shirt but when factories usually pay more in May/June than in late Feb/March. I want to be rewarded to be feeding 25-30 ton of ration to the stores I buy. Beef finishing is not about maximising weight gain per day but about profitability. I never like many other feed stores ration over the winter. Weanling get less than a kg with minerals depending on there weight. Two Fr bull weanling 370kgs were castrated a months ago and went straight into the stores pen. They were too strong for the rags pen.

On the Friesian that lad had he could only stock them at 1.8 to the HA and from this year on it will be 1.7 after the rebalancing of the nitrates. It one of the reasons I am keeping a number of heifers after starting to dip my toe in it 18-20 months ago.

As well and he did not mention it and I would not either the new nitrates export rules means you can no longer adjust your figures at year end if you are a few kgs above 170. Its means if not in derogation 167/168 is the new limit.

No picture of a cow and calf on a dart board I dislike low or no profit systems which about 50% of the sucklers herds in this country are. It's subsidised beef for Larry which effects us all. If the 150-180 per suckler subsidity was removed it might change the attitude of those farmers and help beef farming in general

massey 265

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123032200#Comment_123032200

Having worked in a beef factory for 16 years bonong out beef i can guarntee you that no carcasses are hanging in cold rooms for longer than 2 days due to loss of weight and room for fresh kill .Beef carcasses are usually boned out or sold on in carcase form 24 to 36 hrs after kill .It was the case at that time that if a farmer wanted to query a grade this had to be done within 12 hours of kill due to this turnover time.Sure a factory killing approx 450 cattle per day would need cold rooms the size of croke park if they were to keep carcasses for 2 to 3 weeks.

Robson99

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123032200#Comment_123032200

Don't be kidding yourself Bass thinking the weights can't be fiddled…. who is going to argue over 5kgs irrespective of if they have a scales at home or not. Also they will know the farmers to target….ones who have no idea as to what they should get. And easy to change a U= to a U-… some old fellas just happy to see a U

893bet

The level of deception that would need need is huge and would be akin to a manager in dunnes stores directing all staff to try and short change each customer by 50c to a euro (to no benefit to the staff member).

What is far more likely is calibration error that is within calibration but always on the side of the factory benefit direction.

There is a lot of confirmation bias bein demonstrated in this thread.

All IMO.

kk.man

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123032870#Comment_123032870

Go back to the beef tribunal and read the conclusions.

Some of these 'pawns' are on good money with little education but intelligent enough to play the game because this is about as far in life they will get.

grass10

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123032200#Comment_123032200

Some factories are getting away with providing farmers with cold weight only for their cattle and are not giving you the actual recorded weights, cold weight is supposed to be 98% of hot weight did it ever occur to you that their could be an error in the computer where it only pays you out on 97% of hot weight and by not giving you hot weight you can't prove them wrong. If every factory provided their suppliers with the actual hot weight and this was a false figure that's fraud and they know that so by only providing cold weight they get around getting caught out. I presume you insist on getting the actual recorded weights for your cattle and not cold weight only i am in no way alleging that their is anything underhand going on with either weight or grades by the factories but it's up to everyone to satisfy themselves that the results are correct. My ko% and grades were very good this past summer in fact better than other summers but the factory knows all my cattle are weighted prior to slaughter and buys a lot of my cattle every year at flat prices and not on the well designed grid

148multi

The national standards agency checks just about every scale in the country, no matter what back alleys the are in. It's hard to judge this year, because feeding bumps up the europ grades, and it's also hard to know how this year affected fat colour, which will affect fat grades. All that said, there's huge profits to be made from sharp practices in the meat business. I worked in it and never came across such attitudes, it was always heads I win tail you lose.

Sheep breeder

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123032370#Comment_123032370

Totally on the button in what your saying, exactly the same as my time in the factory, most were broken out the next day for the boning halls under ground or for contracts or go as swinging beef to uk or to rungis with the good cows specially, no factory has chills for for two week storage of 4500 carcasses and at the price of electricity to run chills. I have said before how many farmers have followed their cattle up the kill line to see how a factory operates.

kk.man

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123032370#Comment_123032370

As a matter of interest did your boning hall have the dry aged beef?...and if so how did their customers sell it as such given the most they hung was two days.

Bass Reeves

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123032370#Comment_123032370

Are you still working there. Is the beef boned put there is it aged for the different markets. meat is no longer supplied to upermarkets to be butchered out. Most is supplied in packs. quality has increased expodentially in supermarkets in the last ten years. its all aged is fairly tender compared to 10+ years ago.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123032681#Comment_123032681

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123033356#Comment_123033356

IMO the fiddle is on the grades not the weight. if you fiddle weights too many are in the loop. Pre Covid I followed the cattle up the line and walked into the office to collect the cheque. The lady in the office got the weight directly off the line and send them to the procurement manager to get them priced. To fiddle weights these people and the people replacing them when they are sick or on holidays would all be in the loop aware of it along with a couple other senior managers at every processing unit. multiply that accross different processors and units and you are looing at 100+ people, someone would eventually blurt it out either over drink or after an incident with there employer.

Much easier to fiddle grades. All grading machines are now connected back to a central database. One man with a labtop working from home could take instructions to recalibrate the machines up to 4 times a day Morning before start , at the morning, lunch and afternoon breaks. you channel the majority of your Feedlot and larger suppliers into one time slot and f@@k the rest

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123032885#Comment_123032885

you could pass the same comment about ''little eduactaion'' about a lot of framers it was often not the best and brightest that stayed at it