Minimum wage - ten cents increase

tuff1

smellyoldboot wrote: »

I'm an older version of a millennial myself so it's not the best example of "young" we still had the pre tiger, pre Maastricht, old Ireland in my youth.

But from what I see of the youngest, they might be spending longer in work, but half of that is spent ducking and diving, texting/messaging, watchin stuff on phones, waiting to be told what to do.

It's not their fault of course, some of them get their first taste of a workplace at 18 or even later.

So every 50 year old worker has grinded out results and not wasted a single second of their working life?

Most people finishing school now at 18 will have at least (at least!) 50 years of working life ahead of them, just because they didn't start working at 15 doesn't mean they're completely incapable of picking up a work ethic and building on a career in the following 50 years!

Gooey Looey

tuff1 wrote: »

I mean this is literally a Google search away.

The first two of many -

https://www.google.com/amp/s/hbr.org/amp/2016/08/millennials-are-actually-workaholics-according-to-research

https://www.google.com/amp/s/m.huffingtonpost.co.uk/amp/entry/millennials-are-actually-having-to-work-harder-than-their-parents-and-why-what-you-earn-in-your-20s-is-so-important_uk_5aafebc1e4b0697dfe193529/

Harvard Business Review and Huffington Post articles

None of those are Irish or relevant to this country

tuff1

Gooey Looey wrote: »

None of those are Irish or relevant to this country

So in this globalised world of ours, in which Ireland has arguably benefited from more so than any other European country, parallels can't be drawn between Ireland and any other country on the planet, including the UK?.... Ok

Gooey Looey

tuff1 wrote: »

So in this globalised world of ours, in which Ireland has arguably benefited from more so than any other European country, parallels can't be drawn between Ireland and any other country on the planet, including the UK?.... Ok

We're not discussing European or even UK minimum wage, the topic is Irish minimum wage

biko

LuasSimon wrote: »

Reading an article earlier it appears the minimum wage is going up ten cent in the budget from 10.10 Euro to 10.20 Euro .So many people are on minimum wage these days how can any of those workers ever have anything ?

The owner of our local supermarket drives a 201 Landrover yet he pays all his staff minimum wage .
The local AIBP factory manager drives some big BMW jeep yet 95% of staff there are on minimum wage . Something wrong somewhere . We are becoming a nation of minimum wage or close to minimum wage employers to ensure the rich stay rich or even get richer whilst a growing pool of workers many foreigners but often young Irish have nothing at the end of the week .

What's wrong with your keyboard? Your punctuation isn't working.

tuff1

Gooey Looey wrote: »

We're not discussing European or even UK minimum wage, the topic is Irish minimum wage

I agree completely, I was rebutting the young people are lazy comments - which have nothing to do with minimum wage in any country.

Thelonious Monk

tastyt wrote: »

I really hate the smug answers of get a better job / education any time these threads crop up.

Sometimes it’s not that easy for people , circumstances etc. Begrudging people an extra 10 cent an hour is a sad reflection on the rat race this country has become

Also, as we have seen during COVID, supermarket workers and food processors etc are more important to society than Fintan or Sorcha who tweets all day for a PR company on 90k a year.

Edgware

Thelonious Monk wrote: »

Also, as we have seen during COVID, supermarket workers and food processors etc are more important to society than Fintan or Sorcha who tweets all day for a PR company on 90k a year.

But didnt we clap every evening for them, except when Eastenders was on

Darc19

Personally as someone who employs people, the minimum wage is not currently fit for purpose.

I think it should apply for a maximum of five years of a person's work life or three years if in the same company.

It's self defeating too as people tend not to give anything other than a basic effort if paid minimum wage.

It needs an overhaul, but not sure what the answer is.

BTW, our starting level for part time / entry position is €11 and anyone here over 2 years is on €12-€14 even if they are students and we find we tend to keep them which saves money in the long term.

Plumbthedepths

Gooey Looey wrote: »

Yes, I know that, but at 12 I was doing 12-14 hour days, up at 5 or 6, not home until 4-5pm. You think assisting a bread delivery man is worth paying a teen €70-100 per day?

I can smell something, can't quite tell what it is.

rob316

I read an article earlier and I thought it was 10 percent increase and I was like oh that's a good increase. 10c? **** sake why bother. Our business pays 11 an hour we always keep it 1 euro above minimum you tend to attract better staff and they don't quit so easy.

Alejandro68

Bubbaclaus wrote: »

Anybody that is paid minimum wage for any prolonged period of time mistook a starter job for a career.

That is not entirely true. Most people not native here who can't find jobs in their fields, have to take up minimum paying jobs to get by. Until they can find a placement for their career.

I am a trained chef, and when I first came here, worked in fast food places before I could have the opportunity to work in places I was trained for.

LuasSimon

The meat factory I referred to in my opening post is round a while . When I went to school 30 years or so ago there was 200 hundred men practically all local working there and they all reared families out of it on reasonable wages. Goodman bought it and got rid of all the existing staff over a few years and employed poles mostly but now he has got rid of many of them and their is eighty Latvians or Brazilians there now on minimum wage with toes coming out through their shoes and the factory has never made as much money .
Could he not pay the staff the living wage and still make loads of money ?

Bubbaclaus

LuasSimon wrote: »

The meat factory I referred to in my opening post is round a while . When I went to school 30 years or so ago there was 200 hundred men practically all local working there and they all reared families out of it on reasonable wages. Goodman bought it and got rid of all the existing staff over a few years and employed poles mostly but now he has got rid of many of them and their is eighty Latvians or Brazilians there now on minimum wage with toes coming out through their shoes and the factory has never made as much money .
Could he not pay the staff the living wage and still make loads of money ?

How do you know how much a private business is making? I don't think any of the meat factories in Ireland are plcs, although happen to be proven wrong.

Laughing with Me

NickNickleby wrote: »

Given my own experience as a youth, I subsequently encouraged my own children to get the best education they can (by this time, thanks to evening classes and hard work, I was now in a much better situation). I told them they could go my route - with definitely risky outcomes - or work hard NOW to ensure their futures. I'm happy to report, it paid off. I think this is the only remedy. In reality, its dog-eat-dog.

Apparently in the 80s, the average college graduate earned 60% more than the average non graduate. Now they earn only about 15% more.

mikhail

Laughing with Me wrote: »

Apparently in the 80s, the average college graduate earned 60% more than the average non graduate. Now they earn only about 15% more.

I could believe it. There are a hell of a lot more college graduates these days. The value of a degree has been eroded to hell.

smellyoldboot

rob316 wrote: »

I read an article earlier and I thought it was 10 percent increase and I was like oh that's a good increase. 10c? **** sake why bother. Our business pays 11 an hour we always keep it 1 euro above minimum you tend to attract better staff and they don't quit so easy.

It's only 10c yes, a number that is ineffectual and pointless tbh. There is a valid argument though that the minimum wage itself is dangerous. You set the minimum wage and in tandem set the entry/exit point point to various benefits, it sets a baseline price for goods and services, HAP contributions towards housing are based on it so there's a baseline price for accommodation.

As the baseline price for these items is tethered to min wage, we can never really from the point it was instated reduce the cost of living. We must always move the minimum wage up instead. However this will never be agreed to or in some cases can not be afforded by business to rise quicker than price inflation. So it ends up hurting the people it was intended to help and worse still it feeds endless inflation in the economy.

Good for neo-liberals, bad for pretty much everyone else.

stefanovich

Seth Brundle wrote: »

There's nothing stopping any of the employees from opening their own supermarket or meat processing plant and then buying their own 201 model!
If someone does not want to be on minimum wage then there are plenty of options in terms of upskilling!

Access to capital?

stefanovich

mikhail wrote: »

I could believe it. There are a hell of a lot more college graduates these days. The value of a degree has been eroded to hell.

Depends on the degree I think. Lots of degrees have a solid chance of landing you a career on graduation. The trick is to study skills that are in high demand and pay well.

stefanovich

smellyoldboot wrote: »

It's only 10c yes, a number that is ineffectual and pointless tbh. There is a valid argument though that the minimum wage itself is dangerous. You set the minimum wage and in tandem set the entry/exit point point to various benefits, it sets a baseline price for goods and services, HAP contributions towards housing are based on it so there's a baseline price for accommodation.

As the baseline price for these items is tethered to min wage, we can never really from the point it was instated reduce the cost of living. We must always move the minimum wage up instead. However this will never be agreed to or in some cases can not be afforded by business to rise quicker than price inflation. So it ends up hurting the people it was intended to help and worse still it feeds endless inflation in the economy.

Good for neo-liberals, bad for pretty much everyone else.

Milton Friedman's negative income tax is a more equitable solution. It's a better version of universal basic income.

Laughing with Me

mikhail wrote: »

I could believe it. There are a hell of a lot more college graduates these days. The value of a degree has been eroded to hell.

That fact was from a book called 'Head, Hand, Heart' by David Goodhart.

Princess Consuela Bananahammock

Plumbthedepths wrote: »

I can smell something, can't quite tell what it is.

Fresh bread?

rob316

smellyoldboot wrote: »

It's only 10c yes, a number that is ineffectual and pointless tbh. There is a valid argument though that the minimum wage itself is dangerous. You set the minimum wage and in tandem set the entry/exit point point to various benefits, it sets a baseline price for goods and services, HAP contributions towards housing are based on it so there's a baseline price for accommodation.

As the baseline price for these items is tethered to min wage, we can never really from the point it was instated reduce the cost of living. We must always move the minimum wage up instead. However this will never be agreed to or in some cases can not be afforded by business to rise quicker than price inflation. So it ends up hurting the people it was intended to help and worse still it feeds endless inflation in the economy.

Good for neo-liberals, bad for pretty much everyone else.

I like the minimum wage, its important their is a baseline for a wage for any employee. However it shouldn't be seen as "whats the absolute minimum I can pay someone do X job". We all know the jobs that are by default minimum wage. If you can pay someone an extra €1 above min wage or even 50c, its worth it.

Homelander

A lot of places with minimum wage offer increases based on years service as well as opportunities to make that basic job a career.

Become a supervisor, get slightly better pay, potentially up-skill on the side in some way (either related to said field or not), climb your way into bigger retail management, etc.

Really there is scope in almost all jobs to climb at some point, either by practical experience or paper experience to get you in the door.

It's not really fair to expect all minimum wage jobs to be automatically "living wage". The knock-on effect anyway would be severe and suddenly all other careers would get a bump and thus the price of living would rise again.

Some places pay it because it helps greatly in staff retention and increases efficiently. It wouldn't be feasible if every minimum wage job suddenly transformed into living wage.

Plumbthedepths

Princess Consuela Bananahammock wrote: »

Fresh bread?

Nope, BS actually. The poster claimed to work 12/14 hours in a 12 hour window 13 at most all at the tender age of 12.I would consider that child abuse charges should be retrospectively be levelled against his parents.

Gooey Looey

Plumbthedepths wrote: »

Nope, BS actually. The poster claimed to work 12/14 hours in a 12 hour window 13 at most all at the tender age of 12.I would consider that child abuse charges should be retrospectively be levelled against his parents.

FFS, a lot of that time was travel, to the bakery, load the van then travel to the delivery destination area, them travel home after. Hardly child abuse. Don't be so dramatic! You've never been to the west, have you? You can drive for 2 hours and still be in the same county!

Game Face MCGee

stefanovich wrote: »

Access to capital?

not as difficult as you think. yes traditional go to the bank is difficult but there are plenty of enterprise grants, entrepreneurial government assistance programs, investors, business angels, crowd funding the list is endless

vision, drive, persistence - the capital will follow

Game Face MCGee

i always felt the min wage was cyclical. you raise the min wage by 10 cent. the shop keeper raises his prices by 10 cent. said employee goes buys the products at the new higher price and low an behold he's no better off

Princess Consuela Bananahammock

Plumbthedepths wrote: »

Nope, BS actually. The poster claimed to work 12/14 hours in a 12 hour window 13 at most all at the tender age of 12.I would consider that child abuse charges should be retrospectively be levelled against his parents.

This could be beleivable if he's over 50 now!

Gentlemanne

Game Face MCGee wrote: »

i always felt the min wage was cyclical. you raise the min wage by 10 cent. the shop keeper raises his prices by 10 cent. said employee goes buys the products at the new higher price and low an behold he's no better off

That's a really reductive view of the complex economics involved. For one thing, not everyone's on minimum wage, so there wouldn't be a one-to-one increase from the seller.

Inflation wil always continue to occur so minimum wage earners should be entitled to these increases.