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Minimum wage - ten cents increase

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  • 24-09-2020 7:22pm
    #1
    LuasSimon
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,208 ✭✭✭


    Reading an article earlier it appears the minimum wage is going up ten cent in the budget from 10.10 Euro to 10.20 Euro .So many people are on minimum wage these days how can any of those workers ever have anything ?

    The owner of our local supermarket drives a 201 Landrover yet he pays all his staff minimum wage .
    The local AIBP factory manager drives some big BMW jeep yet 95% of staff there are on minimum wage . Something wrong somewhere . We are becoming a nation of minimum wage or close to minimum wage employers to ensure the rich stay rich or even get richer whilst a growing pool of workers many foreigners but often young Irish have nothing at the end of the week .


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    #2
    The Mighty Quinn
    Registered Users Posts: 1,228 ✭✭✭The Mighty Quinn


    What should the owners of these places be driving?


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    #3
    Bubbaclaus
    Registered Users Posts: 4,461 ✭✭✭Bubbaclaus


    Anybody that is paid minimum wage for any prolonged period of time mistook a starter job for a career.


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    #4
    PsychoPete
    Registered Users Posts: 8,681 ✭✭✭PsychoPete


    You learn to live within your means


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    #5
    SEPT 23 1989
    Registered Users Posts: 43,028 ✭✭✭✭SEPT 23 1989


    Get a good education or work very hard and you will earn more than ten quid an hour


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    #6
    Seth Brundle
    Moderators, Politics Moderators Posts: 39,032 Mod ✭✭✭✭Seth Brundle


    LuasSimon wrote: »
    Reading an article earlier it appears the minimum wage is going up ten cent in the budget from 10.10 Euro to 10.20 Euro .So many people are on minimum wage these days how can any of those workers ever have anything ?

    The owner of our local supermarket drives a 201 Landrover yet he pays all his staff minimum wage .
    The local AIBP factory manager drives some big BMW jeep yet 95% of staff there are on minimum wage . Something wrong somewhere . We are becoming a nation of minimum wage or close to minimum wage employers to ensure the rich stay rich or even get richer whilst a growing pool of workers many foreigners but often young Irish have nothing at the end of the week .
    There's nothing stopping any of the employees from opening their own supermarket or meat processing plant and then buying their own 201 model!
    If someone does not want to be on minimum wage then there are plenty of options in terms of upskilling!


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    #7
    Dempo1
    Registered Users Posts: 26,935 ✭✭✭✭Dempo1


    "where all in this Together"

    Is maith an scáthán súil charad.




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    #8
    Gooey Looey
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,297 ✭✭✭Gooey Looey


    The minimum wage is a terrible idea this country is worse because of it


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    #9
    NickNickleby
    Registered Users Posts: 1,817 ✭✭✭NickNickleby


    Completely agree with the thrust of your post. Unfortunately, I don't think it will ever improve. 50 years ago I entered the workforce in a minimum wage dead end job. Minimum wage, dead end jobs still exist. Its unpalatable to describe those jobs in that way, because actual real people do them.

    Given my own experience as a youth, I subsequently encouraged my own children to get the best education they can (by this time, thanks to evening classes and hard work, I was now in a much better situation). I told them they could go my route - with definitely risky outcomes - or work hard NOW to ensure their futures. I'm happy to report, it paid off. I think this is the only remedy. In reality, its dog-eat-dog.

    edit to say: I'm responding to the OP


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    #10
    Sonics2k
    Registered Users Posts: 8,239 ✭✭✭Sonics2k


    Gooey Looey wrote: »
    The minimum wage is a terrible idea this country is worse because of it

    Ah yeah, sure we all know countries that don't have a minimum wage treat their employees much better.


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    #11
    Gooey Looey
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,297 ✭✭✭Gooey Looey


    Sonics2k wrote: »
    Ah yeah, sure we all know countries that don't have a minimum wage treat their employees much better.

    It costs jobs. I started working at 12 delivering bread every Saturday with my uncle. He's still delivering bread but has no help. The minimum wage cost this job. There are no part time summer jobs for teens and the teens are of the attitude that if a job doesn't pay minimum wage is not worth doing


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    #12
    Fritzbox
    Registered Users Posts: 489 ✭✭Fritzbox


    LuasSimon wrote: »
    Reading an article earlier it appears the minimum wage is going up ten cent in the budget from 10.10 Euro to 10.20 Euro .So many people are on minimum wage these days how can any of those workers ever have anything ?

    The owner of our local supermarket drives a 201 Landrover yet he pays all his staff minimum wage .
    The local AIBP factory manager drives some big BMW jeep yet 95% of staff there are on minimum wage . Something wrong somewhere . We are becoming a nation of minimum wage or close to minimum wage employers to ensure the rich stay rich or even get richer whilst a growing pool of workers many foreigners but often young Irish have nothing at the end of the week .

    10.20 euro per hour? That's 60 cents better than the minimum wage in Germany. 10.20 € would be a standard wage in many European countries.


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    #13
    Green Mile
    Registered Users Posts: 494 ✭✭Green Mile


    A respective reply OP, we live under a capitalist system, so if you don’t want to be on minimum wage, you’ll need to do something about it yourself. That’s what’s “wrong somewhere”.


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    #14
    frozenfrozen
    Registered Users Posts: 7,882 ✭✭✭frozenfrozen


    yes because 700 euro a month on a car is the same as paying 200 people an extra 5 euro an hour or whatever you think they should be earning


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    #15
    gary550
    Registered Users Posts: 638 ✭✭✭gary550


    LuasSimon wrote: »
    Reading an article earlier it appears the minimum wage is going up ten cent in the budget from 10.10 Euro to 10.20 Euro .So many people are on minimum wage these days how can any of those workers ever have anything ?

    The owner of our local supermarket drives a 201 Landrover yet he pays all his staff minimum wage .
    The local AIBP factory manager drives some big BMW jeep yet 95% of staff there are on minimum wage . Something wrong somewhere . We are becoming a nation of minimum wage or close to minimum wage employers to ensure the rich stay rich or even get richer whilst a growing pool of workers many foreigners but often young Irish have nothing at the end of the week .

    I hope the owner of your local supermarket does so well he can buy a Ferrari along with his landrover and really give the abundance of local begrudgers something to talk about.


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    #16
    tastyt
    Registered Users Posts: 2,017 ✭✭✭tastyt


    I really hate the smug answers of get a better job / education any time these threads crop up.

    Sometimes it’s not that easy for people , circumstances etc. Begrudging people an extra 10 cent an hour is a sad reflection on the rat race this country has become


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    #17
    Fritzbox
    Registered Users Posts: 489 ✭✭Fritzbox


    Gooey Looey wrote: »
    It costs jobs. I started working at 12 delivering bread every Saturday with my uncle. He's still delivering bread but has no help. The minimum wage cost this job. There are no part time summer jobs for teens and the teens are of the attitude that if a job doesn't pay minimum wage is not worth doing

    You can pay teenagers a lot less you know:
    Since 1 February 2020, the national minimum wage is €10.10 per hour. This does not mean that everyone is automatically entitled to receive this. Young people aged under 18 are only guaranteed up to 70% of the national minimum wage, which is €7.07 per hour.

    https://www.citizensinformation.ie/en/employment/starting_work_and_changing_job/young_people_at_work/rights_of_young_workers.html#:~:text=Payment%20of%20wages&text=Since%201%20February%202020%2C%20the,is%20%E2%82%AC7.07%20per%20hour.


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    #18
    un5byh7sqpd2x0
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,862 ✭✭✭un5byh7sqpd2x0


    Gooey Looey wrote: »
    It costs jobs. I started working at 12 delivering bread every Saturday with my uncle. He's still delivering bread but has no help. The minimum wage cost this job.

    Minimum wage has nothing to do with that... Child exploitation did.


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    #19
    smellyoldboot
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 1,075 ✭✭✭smellyoldboot


    LuasSimon wrote: »
    Reading an article earlier it appears the minimum wage is going up ten cent in the budget from 10.10 Euro to 10.20 Euro .So many people are on minimum wage these days how can any of those workers ever have anything ?

    The owner of our local supermarket drives a 201 Landrover yet he pays all his staff minimum wage .
    The local AIBP factory manager drives some big BMW jeep yet 95% of staff there are on minimum wage . Something wrong somewhere . We are becoming a nation of minimum wage or close to minimum wage employers to ensure the rich stay rich or even get richer whilst a growing pool of workers many foreigners but often young Irish have nothing at the end of the week .
    Does stacking shelves or working on a meat line generate enough to warrant payment above €10 an hour? It's not about what you think you deserve or think you are worth. What's the actual value to the business?

    Or to look at it another way, If said €10/ hour employee said "Fcuk your wage, I'm off" How quickly and easily could they be replaced for the same or cheaper?

    Learn something worthwhile and make yourself valuable if you want to earn a decent living. You have to work for yourself or have an employer over a barrel to the point they'd struggle pretty bad without you to really earn.


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    #20
    Gooey Looey
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,297 ✭✭✭Gooey Looey


    Fritzbox wrote: »
    You can pay teenagers a lot less you know:



    https://www.citizensinformation.ie/en/employment/starting_work_and_changing_job/young_people_at_work/rights_of_young_workers.html#:~:text=Payment%20of%20wages&text=Since%201%20February%202020%2C%20the,is%20%E2%82%AC7.07%20per%20hour.

    Yes, I know that, but at 12 I was doing 12-14 hour days, up at 5 or 6, not home until 4-5pm. You think assisting a bread delivery man is worth paying a teen €70-100 per day?


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    #21
    Gooey Looey
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,297 ✭✭✭Gooey Looey


    Amanda Aggressive Rider wrote: »
    Minimum wage has nothing to do with that... Child exploitation did.

    It wasn't exploitation, I was happy to work, I enjoyed working and always having money something modern teens don't experience


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    #22
    smellyoldboot
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 1,075 ✭✭✭smellyoldboot


    Gooey Looey wrote: »
    It costs jobs. I started working at 12 delivering bread every Saturday with my uncle. He's still delivering bread but has no help. The minimum wage cost this job. There are no part time summer jobs for teens and the teens are of the attitude that if a job doesn't pay minimum wage is not worth doing

    This too. I started my first Saturday job in a garage at 13 and got £15 for what was usually a 10 hour day and I was glad to get it. I then improved to £2.50 an hour in a small local shop again glad to have it, my own money as a teenager.

    Now they have to be paid what €8 an hour and can only work certain hours etc. Who is going to be bothered when you can pay a full grown adult €2 an hour more and have them work longer hours and have them do more. It's not just jobs, the knock on effect is killing any work ethic in our young people and it shows.


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    #23
    colm_mcm
    Registered Users Posts: 73,396 ✭✭✭✭colm_mcm


    LuasSimon wrote: »
    Reading an article earlier it appears the minimum wage is going up ten cent in the budget from 10.10 Euro to 10.20 Euro .So many people are on minimum wage these days how can any of those workers ever have anything ?

    The owner of our local supermarket drives a 201 Landrover yet he pays all his staff minimum wage .
    The local AIBP factory manager drives some big BMW jeep yet 95% of staff there are on minimum wage . Something wrong somewhere . We are becoming a nation of minimum wage or close to minimum wage employers to ensure the rich stay rich or even get richer whilst a growing pool of workers many foreigners but often young Irish have nothing at the end of the week .

    Quick version. If you wanna be rich - own a supermarket. Don’t work in a supermarket.

    Shocked tbh.


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    #24
    gary550
    Registered Users Posts: 638 ✭✭✭gary550


    smellyoldboot wrote: »
    Does stacking shelves or working on a meat line generate enough to warrant payment above €10 an hour? It's not about what you think you deserve or think you are worth. What's the actual value to the business?

    Or to look at it another way, If said €10/ hour employee said "Fcuk your wage, I'm off" How quickly and easily could they be replaced for the same or cheaper?

    Learn something worthwhile and make yourself valuable if you want to earn a decent living. You have to work for yourself or have an employer over a barrel to the point they'd struggle pretty bad without you to really earn.

    This is what I think some people forget when they think about employment

    If most minimum wage workers asked themselves "could I make the same amount or more money doing exactly what I do now but as a self employed person". 7/10 times the answer is no because they are a small cog in a big wheel and what they do only has value in that particular scenario.


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    #25
    Pedro K
    Registered Users Posts: 1,197 ✭✭✭Pedro K


    Bubbaclaus wrote: »
    Anybody that is paid minimum wage for any prolonged period of time mistook a starter job for a career.

    That's very unfair on a lot of people. Some people won't have the same opportunities for career progression, career moves, or education as others will have. Some may have taken a low paid job as a "starter" job but then circumstances changed and they had to stay in it.

    Not to mention, if everybody treated low paid jobs as starter jobs, we wouldn't have enough people to run the service industry.

    We should look at increasing the minimum wage to at least be in line with the cost of living in Ireland these days.

    For the record, I have no skin in the game. These changes won't affect me. I'm, quite thankfully, in a pretty well paid job in a skilled field. I still think everyone should get a living wage at the very least.


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    #26
    tuff1
    Registered Users Posts: 98 ✭✭tuff1


    smellyoldboot wrote: »
    This too. I started my first Saturday job in a garage at 13 and got £15 for what was usually a 10 hour day and I was glad to get it. I then improved to £2.50 an hour in a small local shop again glad to have it, my own money as a teenager.

    Now they have to be paid what €8 an hour and can only work certain hours etc. Who is going to be bothered when you can pay a full grown adult €2 an hour more and have them work longer hours and have them do more. It's not just jobs, the knock on effect is killing any work ethic in our young people and it shows.

    What do you mean "it shows"?

    Numerous studies have shown that younger generations - Millennials and Gen Z - are working longer hours than any generation before them. Just because they're not down in the coal mines from aged 7 doesn't mean they're lazy, workphobic gremlins :rolleyes:


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    #27
    3d4life
    Registered Users Posts: 818 ✭✭✭3d4life


    tuff1 wrote: »
    .......Numerous studies have shown that younger generations - Millennials and Gen Z - are working longer hours than any generation before them. .....

    Linkys please


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    #28
    Gooey Looey
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,297 ✭✭✭Gooey Looey


    tuff1 wrote: »
    What do you mean "it shows"?

    Numerous studies have shown that younger generations - Millennials and Gen Z - are working longer hours than any generation before them. Just because they're not down in the coal mines from aged 7 doesn't mean they're lazy, workphobic gremlins :rolleyes:

    Link?


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    #29
    smellyoldboot
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 1,075 ✭✭✭smellyoldboot


    tuff1 wrote: »
    What do you mean "it shows"?

    Numerous studies have shown that younger generations - Millennials and Gen Z - are working longer hours than any generation before them. Just because they're not down in the coal mines from aged 7 doesn't mean they're lazy, workphobic gremlins :rolleyes:

    I'm an older version of a millennial myself so it's not the best example of "young" we still had the pre tiger, pre Maastricht, old Ireland in my youth.

    But from what I see of the youngest, they might be spending longer in work, but half of that is spent ducking and diving, texting/messaging, watchin stuff on phones, waiting to be told what to do.

    It's not their fault of course, some of them get their first taste of a workplace at 18 or even later.


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    #30
    ILoveYourVibes
    Registered Users Posts: 15,176 ✭✭✭✭ILoveYourVibes


    Bubbaclaus wrote: »
    Anybody that is paid minimum wage for any prolonged period of time mistook a starter job for a career.

    This is a very unrealistic view of the world.

    1. I dont know if you realized but many people have been let go recently and have to take any job they can.

    2. Many are part-time workers supporting themselves while in college or have children.

    3. People can have disabilities physical or emotional and would rather do this than be on the dole.

    4. Why should we shaft people in starter jobs ?

    5. It encourages people to stay on the dole because they are better off.

    6. Upskilling education costs .....and to afford them you need...wait for ....a better minimum wage.


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    #31
    tuff1
    Registered Users Posts: 98 ✭✭tuff1


    Gooey Looey wrote: »
    Link?

    I mean this is literally a Google search away.

    The first two of many -

    https://www.google.com/amp/s/hbr.org/amp/2016/08/millennials-are-actually-workaholics-according-to-research

    https://www.google.com/amp/s/m.huffingtonpost.co.uk/amp/entry/millennials-are-actually-having-to-work-harder-than-their-parents-and-why-what-you-earn-in-your-20s-is-so-important_uk_5aafebc1e4b0697dfe193529/

    Harvard Business Review and Huffington Post articles


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