Battery Day Thread

liamog

Deleted User wrote: »

True, but the fact that any company is making these improvements is a step in the right direction. The main innovations are in the cell production itself, the tabless structure and the methods of extracting Lithium and other enhancements are driving the prices down.


Hopefully the battery manufacturers are cooperating for the benefit of all in the transition to EV and static storage solutions.

That's the point I'm making, LG Chem, SK Innovation and the multitude of Chinese battery manufacturers are progressing just as much. Most of the cost reductions have been down to economies of scale and the change in chemistries which reduce the expensive ingredients.
Always be wary of percentage improvements given to shareholders 60% and 15% represent annual rates of improvement of 17% and 5.5% over 3 years.

That put's the statement "these are really significant changes and will really set a hard target for other car manufacturers to match." into perspective.

unkel

Lumen wrote: »

https://www.volkswagen.ie/en/models-and-configurator/id3-1st.html

Scroll to Build and Price. Click "Show standard equipment".

RRP € 42,915.00, Drum brakes in rear.

Just so not everybody will have to go look it up:



And my 1993 Micra (780kg) also had front disks and rear drums. Same as the 2020 ID.3 (less than a stone shy of 1700kg in the lightest version)

Could VW not have spent the €50 or so to get disk brakes all round? Cheap seats and cheap plastic in the interior is one thing but to skimp on safety? Honestly this shocks me

eagerv

Lumen wrote: »

- Rear disc brakes (the ID.3 has drums, LOL)

unkel wrote: »

I hope you are joking?

The only car I have ever owned with drum brakes was an early 90s Nissan Micra. The ID.3 is obviously an exercise in how to make a car as cheaply as possible (VW need that to survive), but that is taking the complete mick.

I can assure you that the brakes on my two day old ID.3 are excellent and powerful, with a nice natural feel compared to other EVs I have driven. Never driven a Model 3 so cannot comment on theirs.


I would imagine there is no or very little price advantage to VW by using drums on rear, but apparently drums are more reliable on RWD EVs in some climates. Bjorn mentioned it in one of his videos.

Plasmoid

Deleted User wrote: »

They also claim that their now casting process will vastly reduce the number of parts needed in the subframes down to two, plus the battery unit becomes the structural floor, in other words their future vehicles will be as easy to build as an Airfix model!
Unfortunately, I see it also making vehicles almost unrepairable after anything except a minor shunt.

I'm with you on this. When i first heard about casting a huge part of the car it sounded to me like it had only had some drawbacks. But given a huge portion of the value of a crashed Tesla is in the battery pack, and for the Model S and Model X it's dropped out to scrap the chassis... yeah this sounds bad.
That said I don't know what the current Model Y looks like from a battery pack removal standpoint, so maybe it's nothing new.

unkel wrote: »

And my 1993 Micra (780kg) also had front disks and rear drums. Same as the 2020 ID.3 (less than a stone shy of 1700kg in the lightest version)

Could VW not have spent the €50 or so to get disk brakes all round? Cheap seats and cheap plastic in the interior is one thing but to skimp on safety? Honestly this shocks me

I'm plodding around happily in my Mazda2 with drum brakes. I guess the ID3 is intended to eventually compete not a million miles away from it, and the ID4 is the real car for the masses Golf exiles.
But my Mazda2 has an engine sitting over the front axle (and no rear grip...) so those rear brakes don't really see much use.
On an ID3 i'd assume the drum brakes are never used until an emergency stop, otherwise regen and front brakes are more than enough.

All I can think of is yes, supreme cost saving by penny pinching VW, but also did I hear of Teslas suffering rear disc brake corrosion and sticking in winter conditions, because they never see use? A sealed rear drum brake could be a winter targeted decision

Lumen

Lumen wrote: »

In terms of things which could be cost-cut or are options on other cars:

- Cameras
- Autopilot
- Panoramic glass sunroof.
- Complex expensive chassis construction.
- "Leather"
- Charging cables
- Rear disc brakes (the ID.3 has drums, LOL)
- Fast charging (see Taycan, for instance).
- Metallic paint (OK, the paint is already cheap)
- Frunk shopping bag hooks. Oh wait, they did that already.

Imagine a Model 3 SR+ with no cameras or driver assist, small brakes, 17" wheels, steel roof, and cloth seats, for 35k. I would buy that.

I'd buy a model 3 for the current price of the SR+ if it was the performance

As for steel roof, I would be delighted, then I could stick a MAG mount on it for my ham antennas, in fact the steel roof would be much more useful to me!

unkel

unkel wrote: »

Could VW not have spent the €50 or so to get disk brakes all round? Cheap seats and cheap plastic in the interior is one thing but to skimp on safety? Honestly this shocks me

Disk brakes int he rear are not necessary because regen makes up for any reduced braking performance if any and the drum brakes would be much less prone to breaking than discs due to corrosion on electrics.

Lumen

https://teslaowners.ie/2020/09/23/batteryday2020/

ELM327

Drum brakes?

LOL

ELM327

ELM327 wrote: »

Drum brakes?

LOL

Why so funny ? who really cares ? it's not like the brakes have to do much on an EV anyway.

unkel

Deleted User wrote: »

I'd buy a model 3 for the current price of the SR+ if it was the performance

Did you test drive an SR+? It's a lot faster than your i3

Deleted User wrote: »

Why so funny ? who really cares ? it's not like the brakes have to do much on an EV anyway.

Yes, front brakes do most of the work anyway and then there's the regen. All true and I'm sure the ID.3 brakes fine even though it's the weight of a tank (only just short of my 90s BMW 7-series V8 petrol). I have no doubt though that VW stuck in the drum brakes to save money. And if this makes them a laughing stock, they have only themselves to blame

unkel

unkel wrote: »

Did you test drive an SR+? It's a lot faster than your i3

No, I haven't test driven the M3 yet, remember what happened when I took a test drive in the i3 ?

Yeah it's fast but Performance would be better lol.

unkel wrote: »

Yes, front brakes do most of the work anyway and then there's the regen. All true and I'm sure the ID.3 brakes fine even though it's the weight of a tank (only just short of my 90s BMW 7-series V8 petrol). I have no doubt though that VW stuck in the drum brakes to save money. And if this makes them a laughing stock, they have only themselves to blame

I would imagine they stuck in drum brakes mostly because they are more than adequate for the job. It's something that wouldn't really bother me to be honest.

liamog

Mod Note: As Tesla have not announced that their batteries are powered by drum brakes let's take the ID.3 conversation over here

https://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2057979167