profit for dairy leased land

Say my name

GrasstoMilk wrote: »

When its wet its very wet and when its dry its like the Sahara

I was thinking that about that land.
Most likely go into tillage. But probably looking for someone to set up a dairy infrastructure (for afters) and not mine the place.

trixi2011

GrasstoMilk wrote: »

Owner wants 300e an acre plus sfp
It's all reclaimed from the sea

When its wet its very wet and when its dry its like the Sahara

300 without any facilities

GrasstoMilk

trixi2011 wrote: »

300 without any facilities

There is considerable amount of slatted shed space there but it would cost to convert that also

Bass Reeves

GrasstoMilk wrote: »

Owner wants 300e an acre plus sfp
It's all reclaimed from the sea

When its wet its very wet and when its dry its like the Sahara

Just to put it in context if they achieve that price they will be getting nearly 100k in rent + BPS. BPS would be a minimum of about 20k but more than likely in the 50k bracket

GrasstoMilk

Say my name wrote: »

I was thinking that about that land.
Most likely go into tillage. But probably looking for someone to set up a dairy infrastructure (for afters) and not mine the place.

My BIL is tillage farming down that area and he hasnt any interest in it, even if the price was reasonable
Be like rice farming trying go get the crops out on a year like this

Theres also no well water available seemingly

atlantic mist

are lads still paying sfp back to land owners?
id walk away from ground if thats even mentioned

Siamsa Sessions

atlantic mist wrote: »

are lads still paying sfp back to land owners?
id walk away from ground if thats even mentioned

Land we leased out had no SFP so straight rent only

mahoney_j

atlantic mist wrote: »

are lads still paying sfp back to land owners?
id walk away from ground if thats even mentioned

Nothing pissesme off more ,person farming the land should get this without question but in most parts where land is in high demand it goes back to land owner who is getting tax free rent also if leased long term

trixi2011

atlantic mist wrote: »

are lads still paying sfp back to land owners?
id walk away from ground if thats even mentioned

Seems to be the norm on rental farms . Have asked land owners if they would lease out there entitlements to allow me to establish a sfp from the national reserve on their land . Would of offered to pay the difference between the lease amount and their original sfp but they were too concerned that they might lose their entitlementd.

wrangler

trixi2011 wrote: »

Seems to be the norm on rental farms . Have asked land owners if they would lease out there entitlements to allow me to establish a sfp from the national reserve on their land . Would of offered to pay the difference between the lease amount and their original sfp but they were too concerned that they might lose their entitlementd.

Looks like landlords will not be getting entitlements in the next CAP reform

Dinzee Conlee

wrangler wrote: »

Looks like landlords will not be getting entitlements in the next CAP reform

Where is the reform now Wrangler?

I didn’t think anything much was agreed yet, but I haven’t been following it...

GrasstoMilk

wrangler wrote: »

Looks like landlords will not be getting entitlements in the next CAP reform

Will land rental price just go up to compensate?

wrangler

Dinzee Conlee wrote: »

Where is the reform now Wrangler?

I didn’t think anything much was agreed yet, but I haven’t been following it...

It's now put back to the end of 2022 so it's way off at this stage, but there's a lot of emphasis on the active farmer

wrangler

GrasstoMilk wrote: »

Will land rental price just go up to compensate?

The tenants will put it up because they'll have their own entitlements I suppose

K.G.

mahoney_j wrote: »

Nothing pissesme off more ,person farming the land should get this without question but in most parts where land is in high demand it goes back to land owner who is getting tax free rent also if leased long term

Are.you saying they should throw in the entitlements for free.if the entitlements werent paid back there would be no land made available around this country.you would have even more lads with a few cattle just to claim entitlements

Timmaay

The only solution is for farmers to all cool off themselves and walk away if the price goes too high, and most certainly don't lock horns with a rival neighbour farmer and drive the price stupidly high. I know for one I'd be happily hanging up the wellys and off to the next career if my only option was 250/300e rent.

Actually doing out them sums, if I had to pay 250e/ac for the 112 owned acres here, plus hand back the 16k bps, that would be 44k/year I'd be down.

mahoney_j

K.G. wrote: »

Are.you saying they should throw in the entitlements for free.if the entitlements werent paid back there would be no land made available around this country.you would have even more lads with a few cattle just to claim entitlements

The donkey doing all the work should get them he is doing all the work the land owner gets tax free income at the very least 50% minimum of entitlement value should go foc

mahoney_j

Timmaay wrote: »

The only solution is for farmers to all cool off themselves and walk away if the price goes too high, and most certainly don't lock horns with a rival neighbour farmer and drive the price stupidly high. I know for one I'd be happily hanging up the wellys and off to the next career if my only option was 250/300e rent.

That all well in an area with lots of land changing hands 250/300 plus is common round here lads would nearly sell the wife for an acre of land unless land was outside the ditch of milking parlour reseeded ,indexes good and roads/water all in I wouldn’t pay the colour of that

Mooooo

Timmaay wrote: »

The only solution is for farmers to all cool off themselves and walk away if the price goes too high, and most certainly don't lock horns with a rival neighbour farmer and drive the price stupidly high. I know for one I'd be happily hanging up the wellys and off to the next career if my only option was 250/300e rent.

Actually doing out them sums, if I had to pay 250e/ac for the 112 owned acres here, plus hand back the 16k bps, that would be 44k/year I'd be down.

And the mysterious opportunity cost appears......

MIKEKC

trixi2011 wrote: »

Seems to be the norm on rental farms . Have asked land owners if they would lease out there entitlements to allow me to establish a sfp from the national reserve on their land . Would of offered to pay the difference between the lease amount and their original sfp but they were too concerned that they might lose their entitlementd.

Are you sure it is possible to do this .Thought this was illegal

K.G.

mahoney_j wrote: »

The donkey doing all the work should get them he is doing all the work the land owner gets tax free income at the very least 50% minimum of entitlement value should go foc

I agree but just like leasing and buying and selling quota it should have never been allowed.

Bass Reeves

Dinzee Conlee wrote: »

Where is the reform now Wrangler?

I didn’t think anything much was agreed yet, but I haven’t been following it...

I think there is an anomaly in the last CAP where if you leased and held back 2HA you were allowed to draw entitlements over the rest of the farm. It was similar to previous CAP except that then you leased entitlements with land and they were safe. In this CAP you could not lease entitlements with land this was a way around.

With dairying now reaching Carbon and Nitrate limits this is just the next step on the road.

I may be wrong about the way the BFP rules are in place at present

alps

GrasstoMilk wrote: »

Will land rental price just go up to compensate?

For sure..

Land value is based on one thing only..

What you have to pay to stop the other fella from getting it.

Whatever it's worth for agri value plus whatever payments can be pulled off of it will go back to the landlord because that's what the other fella will be offering, and if you want it...you'll have to offer that too...plus a little more..

MIKEKC

Bass Reeves wrote: »

I think there is an anomaly in the last CAP where if you leased and held back 2HA you were allowed to draw entitlements over the rest of the farm. It was similar to previous CAP except that then you leased entitlements with land and they were safe. In this CAP you could not lease entitlements with land this was a way around.

With dairying now reaching Carbon and Nitrate limits this is just the next step on the road.

I may be wrong about the way the BFP rules are in place at present

Never heard about the 2ha rule. I was leasing land at the time, lease was just up and farmer wanted to increase rental by 50%. I stacked entitlements and walked away. (Land was bounding me). If this rule was there wouldn't everyone have kept their entitlements?

Bass Reeves

MIKEKC wrote: »

Never heard about the 2ha rule. I was leasing land at the time, lease was just up and farmer wanted to increase rental by 50%. I stacked entitlements and walked away. (Land was bounding me). If this rule was there wouldn't everyone have kept their entitlements?

There may have been a time limit. I remember something about it but cannot be sure

older by the day

Tonynewholland wrote: »

Aside from the financial The truth is there are not many jobs now that are as physically demanding as dairy farming nowadays. 7 days a week takes a toll on the body unlike most other jobs.

Hardly, I see lads starting at 7.30 in the morn levelling concrete, putting up shutters, I know carpenters, plumbers, plasterers getting opperations before there 40;.backs and knees ffed,

wrangler

MIKEKC wrote: »

Never heard about the 2ha rule. I was leasing land at the time, lease was just up and farmer wanted to increase rental by 50%. I stacked entitlements and walked away. (Land was bounding me). If this rule was there wouldn't everyone have kept their entitlements?

That was the way alright, those farmers that went for the retirement scheme weren't allowed keep their entitlements as they weren't allowed farm any land.
It was a big blow to them.
If you were farming two hectares you were reckoned to be an active farmer and got to kepp all your entitlements. Martin O sullivan on the indo reckoned you should be considered an active farmer with 5ha, I also heard once you were farming 10% of your land you'd be able to keep the entitlement, So I'd be considered an active farmer if either of those was the case

Looney1

op here. sfp all going back to farmer on top of lease. it was great to get such a discussion going. i intentionally didnt say at the time that i have a very good off farm income at the moment which would reduce by at least 50% if i was to take it on. I think i have my answer

straight

Panch18 wrote: »

this is gas - Beef lads telling dairy farmers (some top class dairy farmers on here i might add) how much money they are making and how much their costs should be

I don't think any dairy farmer should be completing a profit monitor - this information is being thrown around the place and used by a) coops to keep the price of milk in check and b) non dairy farmers as a stick to beat dairy farmers with.

You be amazed at the amount of resentment there is towards dairy farmers from non dairy farmers - particular what sprung out of these beef factory protests.

Now we have never completed a profit monitor and never will - and i firmly believe it would be in dairy farmers interests if they pulled back from it a bit.

There is never anything gained by everybody knowing your business

That beef farmer even threw in the "highly profitable" line that I'm sick of reading in the media. When you break down the wage into an hourly rate I consider it modern day slavery. I'd say in years to come there will be a farmers lives matter movement.

cosatron

straight wrote: »

That beef farmer even threw in the "highly profitable" line that I'm sick of reading in the media. When you break down the wage into an hourly rate I consider it modern day slavery. I'd say in years to come there will be a farmers lives matter movement.

FLM:D