Employer cost me new job with false reference.

stormlover27

So I work for a family run business, I work a minimum wage job, in the food industry so nothing serious.
The job has got to a point where is damaging me mantally and physically as the bosses are just so toxic and undermining. They always have something to say. Have even threatened to fire me over tiny ridiculous things. Like too much chicken in a wrap type ridiculous. I needed to get out for myself, it's no debate. I've even had to go to the doctor because Im havinh sever panic attacks every morning! My boss is a bully. My Co workers all feel the exact same and we all want to leave
My coworker had handed in his notice a day prior, keep in mind. This wasn't planned, he just happened to get an interview and be offered a new job that was in his preferred industry, so he took it.
So I handed in my notice last night at the end of my shift and my boss literally lost it. She started laughing and accusing me of conspiracy. She said I had planned it with my other Co worker just so they would be left stuck and would have to close early. She got really personal, calling me selfish and saying I only think of myself and that It was extremely ****ty to do.
The horrible thing is I had to ask for a reference. Which my new job is subjet to...
When I asked she laughed and said to use her that she knows my new employers well.
She ended up dismissing me, telling me to leave or else she won't stop.
She made this job living hell for me! She can't be surprised I'm leaving!
Just the other day I had forgotten to display a name tag on one of our ingredients and she said if I didn't cop on, me and my Co worker (who left) can feck off and find new jobs!
To say I'm shocked would be an understatement. What can I even do here. I need to work here for the next week and I'm scared to go in today and meet her husband, who I'm sure is going to have it out with me.
What can I do if they make my last week living hell? I can't afford to walk out. There's too much money at stake.
Can they give me a bad reference out of spite? If so is there anything I can even do about it?
All replies appreciated.

Samuel T. Cogley

Just explain, politely and calmly that you were told to 'feck off and find a new job' so you did.

Don't let bullies get you down, it's only words. I know that's easier said than done.

If they do give you a bad reference, consider taking legal advice re defamation, although it does sound as if you've made mistakes / not taken the job overly seriously.

Odelay

Just move on, those type of people love chaos and drama. You’ll find another job with a reasonable employer easily.

mistersifter

Pull a sickie for the last week. Fúck her. Sounds like she deserves to be left up shít creek.

Also. Get another referee.

dennyk

You've already given notice; your boss no longer has any power over you whatsoever. Go in, do your job, be calm and professional, and don't respond to or feed into their drama. Don't worry about the reference; if your boss is that type of person, she's going to take your leaving personally no matter what, and there's nothing you can do to change that regardless, so there's no sense in getting worked up about it.

SmartinMartin

They will not give you a glowing reference anyway, so finish up now by going sick with stress from bullying. That'll keep them quiet.

antimatterx

SmartinMartin wrote: »

They will not give you a glowing reference anyway, so finish up now by going sick with stress from bullying. That'll keep them quiet.

They legally can't give a negative one.

seamus

antimatterx wrote: »

They legally can't give a negative one.

They can. There is no law prohibiting a bad reference.

You can sue for defamation if what they say about you is untrue (or can't be proven), but there is no law which makes it illegal to give a bad reference.

Mrs OBumble

antimatterx wrote: »

They legally can't give a negative one.

They can, provided they tell the truth.

If your new employer knows her, then s/he probably knows what she's like.

Del2005

antimatterx wrote: »

They legally can't give a negative one.

There are many ways to give a bad reference without it being negative.

I'm surprised that the new company has offered the OP a job and is looking for a reference after the offer, especially since most companies only give a basic reference these days.

Potatoeman

If you’re that stressed don’t go in. Leaving out an ingredient is actually pretty serious in the food industry. If someone has an allergy they could die. Use a reference from a previous job if need be.

Misguided1

Talk to your new employer and tell them that because 2 of you resigned at the same time, your employer has reacted badly and is unlikely to give a reference. Offer a character reference. It won't be an issue so don't worry. Good luck in the new job.

dubrov

It's a tough situation but your best chance is to be honest with your new employer about the situation

PukkaStukka

OP, you should have gotten a reference elsewhere and had a firm offer in the bag before handing in your notice.

But hey, you cannot put a price on your mental health and dignity. F**K them.

Jim2007

stormlover27 wrote: »

Can they give me a bad reference out of spite? If so is there anything I can even do about it?

It's a crappy situation to be in, but keep in mind it will soon be over...

The last time someone made a suggesting that I'd get a bad reference... I just said 'Hmm legally, that could turn out to be very expensive for you if I don't get a new job'.... After a few hours thinking about it he decided that helping me find a new job was now his priority... you could always make a similar comment if it comes up again.

OMM 0000

Sounds very rough stormlover.

Try to keep some perspective on your last week. They can't physically hurt you. All they can do is make fools of themselves and further reveal how sick (mentally ill) and unhappy they are. Pity them. Realise they are failures.

They may give a bad reference in the sense they give very plain, unenthusiastic replies to things. There's not much you can do about this except not use them as a reference. Can you use someone else?

_Brian

Your getting a poor reference now no matter what.

I’d walk. I’ve been in management 20 years and what’s happening there is madness.

You’ve literally nothing to loose

stormlover27

So I handed in my notice on Thursday, another person from my department handed theirs in on Wednesday and my employer has become resentful. I had a job offer, lined up ready to go. She said it was pending on my employers refence, which should have been perfect since I worked my ass off and never called in sick, took days off or even booked any holidays the entire time I was there! I was dedicated. And my employer loved me up until this point.
But since my potentially new employer spoke with my current employer, the potentially new employer has decided to take back their offer based on the reference I was given.
This is slander right?
Also, my employer is trying to force myself and the other employee to work past our notice dates, to cover them so they don't have to close early. She said '' I don't care where you are, what you have going on or if you think you're not legally obliged to. One of you is finishing the week'' obviously I'm not going to. She bullied me and cost me my new job. The other employee isn't going to either as they start their new job almost immediately.
She said some really nasty things to us both about how everyone is disgusted with us and how our parents would be ashamed and how ungrateful we are etc etc.
How can we get out of this? We need to work until the end of our notices to get our holiday pay and first weeks pay. I feel like she's trying to bully us into walking out so she doesn't have to pay us.
What can I say to her to tell her no without an explosive argument erupting?
I'm scared to go to work today and face her but I really need the money.

JeffKenna

You need to think of your next job here. Do you have other references you could use or someone else in the company you could use as a reference in the future? This would impact any course of action you take.

touts

stormlover27 wrote: »

So I handed in my notice on Thursday, another person from my department handed theirs in on Wednesday and my employer has become resentful. I had a job offer, lined up ready to go. She said it was pending on my employers refence, which should have been perfect since I worked my ass off and never called in sick, took days off or even booked any holidays the entire time I was there! I was dedicated. And my employer loved me up until this point.
But since my potentially new employer spoke with my current employer, the potentially new employer has decided to take back their offer based on the reference I was given.
This is slander right?
Also, my employer is trying to force myself and the other employee to work past our notice dates, to cover them so they don't have to close early. She said '' I don't care where you are, what you have going on or if you think you're not legally obliged to. One of you is finishing the week'' obviously I'm not going to. She bullied me and cost me my new job. The other employee isn't going to either as they start their new job almost immediately.
She said some really nasty things to us both about how everyone is disgusted with us and how our parents would be ashamed and how ungrateful we are etc etc.
How can we get out of this? We need to work until the end of our notices to get our holiday pay and first weeks pay. I feel like she's trying to bully us into walking out so she doesn't have to pay us.
What can I say to her to tell her no without an explosive argument erupting?
I'm scared to go to work today and face her but I really need the money.

A job that relied on your current employer giving you a reference? That's odd. Anyway you should have asked for the reference and locked in the new job before handing in your notice. And it seems you and your colleague basically want to leave immediately which would probably completely screw up her business. I'd love to hear the employers side of the story.

Either way valuable lesson learned. Don't set fire to your bridges until you are sure the bridge you are on has been completed.

touts

touts wrote: »

A job that relied on your current employer giving you a reference? That's odd. Anyway you should have asked for the reference and locked in the new job before handing in your notice. And it seems you and your colleague basically want to leave immediately which would probably completely screw up her business. I'd love to hear the employers side of the story.

Either way valuable lesson learned. Don't set fire to your bridges until you are sure the bridge you are on has been completed.

Good Christ. Did you read any of it or does it always automatically have to be braindead "company right, poster wrong" here?

Darc19

An employer cannot give a negative reference. They can "not comment" and the other employer will take what they want from that.

I'd be contacting a solicitor immediately with a view to opening a wrc dispute.


Put everything in writing and also ask what was meant to be the new employer for details of what in particular led to the decision to withdraw the offer.


This is a clear case of defamation if you can show incorrect or false information was given. (can be difficult)

On the other hand, if there was no reason to leave and you gave very short notice (even if that's the minimum notice required) it would be seen as a negative with the new employer.

Dempo1

Have to agree, extremely rare and Odd a new employer would seek a reference from a current employer and for Obvious reasons, one being discretion that the OP is actually looking for a new Job, secondly the OP is under Zero obligation to extend notice and to be frank, why would anyone in such an apparent toxic work environment. If the potential new employer wants too, surely there must be a work history they can check on, other references , length of service in current role etc. I am just surprised current employer reference sought, requested and given. It also seems the new employer has offered the Job, so I have to assume this was on Merit and sense the OP capable of fulfilling the role?

Slander, no with the exception of widely inaccurate allegations of a personal nature & NOT work/performance related, any employer is entitled to give what ever reference they wish too as long as it is work/performance related, true, false or exaggerated. Indeed I am aware of some employers giving good references to get rid of personnel quickly. Bad references a very rare thing, it achieves little, albeit the OP'S employer does seem a little unhinged.

Realt Dearg Sec

ReginaldSmythV wrote: »

Good Christ. Did you read any of it or does it always automatically have to be braindead "company right, poster wrong" here?

Seriously, it's like there's lads on here who wait around for posts where people have a grievance, looking for ways to manipulate what they've read into a tribute to the innate reasonableness and patience of employers.

Dempo1

Darc19 wrote: »

An employer cannot give a negative reference. They can "not comment" and the other employer will take what they want from that.

I'd be contacting a solicitor immediately with a view to opening a wrc dispute.


Put everything in writing and also ask what was meant to be the new employer for details of what in particular led to the decision to withdraw the offer.


This is a clear case of defamation

This would be a profound waste of the Op's time and money I fear, there is no obvious defamation here, the OP does not not suggest any notion of a personal slight, just a bad work reference which any employer is entitled to give as long as it is only work/performance related.

Darc19

Dempo1 wrote: »

This would be a profound waste of the Op's time and money I fear, a "Not comment" is not nor can be interpreted as being defamation

That's correct. But the op claims something was said.

I've edited the post.

Possibly the op has given very short notice and this has not gone down well with either employer.

I certainly would have second thoughts on someone that ups and leaves on a whim and gives very little notice.

stormlover27

Darc19 wrote: »

That's correct. But the op claims something was said.

I've edited the post.

Possibly the op has given very short notice and this has not gone down well with either employer.

I certainly would have second thoughts on someone that ups and leaves on a whim and gives very little notice.

My contract required one weeks notice, and that is what I gave.

Dempo1

Darc19 wrote: »

That's correct. But the op claims something was said.

I've edited the post.

Possibly the op has given very short notice and this has not gone down well with either employer.

I certainly would have second thoughts on someone that ups and leaves on a whim and gives very little notice.

I suppose these queries rarely give the full story and it would ultimately end with a he said, she said scenario. I just think its a very curious sequence of events and I've never, ever come across a situation were a new employer seeks a reference from a current employer, also curious a offer given and then withdrawn. Re the Notice, It's not clear what notice was given but it seems it was.

Wuff Wuff

Hi OP,

In your other thread you said that

"The horrible thing is I had to ask for a reference. Which my new job is subjet to...
When I asked she laughed and said to use her that she knows my new employers well"

Could very well have "officially" given you a bog standard worked on these dates reference and then been an informal off the record chat between them 1if they know each other well where she wouldn't hire you again etc etc.

Sounds like a toxic place anyways and you're better off away from them

Darc19

stormlover27 wrote: »

My contract required one weeks notice, and that is what I gave.

I suspect that the contract says "minimum" one week notice.

A good employee will give "reasonable" notice. In my experience that is at least 2 weeks and in many cases 3-4 weeks.

I suspect that the sudden notice and just giving the absolute minimum of one week was part of the issue with the new employer.

rock22

Darc19 wrote: »

I suspect that the contract says "minimum" one week notice.

A good employee will give "reasonable" notice. In my experience that is at least 2 weeks and in many cases 3-4 weeks.

I suspect that the sudden notice and just giving the absolute minimum of one week was part of the issue with the new employer.

Absolutely ridiculous.
Only require to give one weeks notice if that is in contract.
Arguably , that is all even required until case law says differently

Darc19

rock22 wrote: »

Absolutely ridiculous.
Only require to give one weeks notice if that is in contract.
Arguably , that is all even required until case law says differently

Nothing ridiculous about it.

Good employees will work with their employer on a leaving date.

In some cases a week is fine. But in my experience two weeks is best if you want to leave on good terms no matter what a contract has says

I think both the op and the employer handled the situation badly

beauf

Darc19 wrote: »

That's correct. But the op claims something was said.

I've edited the post.

Possibly the op has given very short notice and this has not gone down well with either employer.

I certainly would have second thoughts on someone that ups and leaves on a whim and gives very little notice.

What you're saying makes no sense. A new employer will want some one to start as early as possible. Your notice period is in your contact.

If you have two employees that are critical and both leave at the first change they get, and you are demanding they stay as you need them.

This suggests a few things. They're aren't bad employees or you wouldn't want to work they're notice. You're oblivious to your employees being unhappy or don't care.

un5byh7sqpd2x0

Darc19 wrote: »

I suspect that the contract says "minimum" one week notice.

A good employee will give "reasonable" notice. In my experience that is at least 2 weeks and in many cases 3-4 weeks.

I suspect that the sudden notice and just giving the absolute minimum of one week was part of the issue with the new employer.

Utter nonsense

Darc19

Byron White Marathon wrote: »

Utter nonsense

Not in my experience. Then I treat employees well.

But maybe you know better.

beauf

Darc19 wrote: »

..
I suspect that the sudden notice and just giving the absolute minimum of one week was part of the issue with the new employer.

Any new employer is deluded of they don't think that a previous employer won't occasionally sabotage a reference for an employee they just poached from them.

Jim2007

Darc19 wrote: »

Not in my experience. Then I treat employees well.

But maybe you know better.

Well your posts suggest your experience is not representative of the rest of the world out there.

Have you sent a few years supervising workers on a production line, the back office at a bank.... or what?

OMM 0000

Darc19 wrote: »

An employer cannot give a negative reference.

Yes they can.

I don't understand why this myth continues to be posted on boards.

The risk with giving a bad reference is the company may be sued for defamation, but if they can prove what they said is true they will win the case.

beauf

They can give a very bland reference which may be viewed as the same thing.

mrslancaster

OMM 0000 wrote: »

Yes they can.

I don't understand why this myth continues to be posted on boards.

The risk with giving a bad reference is the company may be sued for defamation, but if they can prove what they said is true they will win the case.

I thought an employer was not legally obliged to give any reference at all?
Most references these days just contain the dates of employment and the job title. As others posted, an employer can't gave a bad or negative reference that has untrue information.

OMM 0000

mrslancaster wrote: »

I thought an employer was not legally obliged to give any reference at all?
Most references these days just contain the dates of employment and the job title. As others posted, an employer can't gave a bad or negative reference that has untrue information.

Of course they're not obliged to give a reference.

Others aren't saying "an employer can't gave a bad or negative reference that has untrue information", they're saying "an employer can't gave a bad or negative reference full stop". Big difference.

_Brian

There is nothing stopping an employer giving a negative reference providing it’s the truth.

All that is required is that the employer has evidence to back up anything they say in a reference in the event of a case taken by a former employee.

So if I say a person had a problem with tardiness and I have attendance records to prove it then there is no problem.

no.8

Potatoeman wrote:

If you’re that stressed don’t go in. Leaving out an ingredient is actually pretty serious in the food industry. If someone has an allergy they could die. Use a reference from a previous job if need be.

Leaving out an ingredient? Are you you sure you don't mean accidentally adding one wrt the allergy reference?

OP. You just have 1 week and you're done in that hell hole. Be strong and don't even respond to them. If you're up to it, just do your hours, focus on the customers and head off. Leave a poor reference for the employers.

no.8

touts wrote:

A job that relied on your current employer giving you a reference? That's odd. Anyway you should have asked for the reference and locked in the new job before handing in your notice. And it seems you and your colleague basically want to leave immediately which would probably completely screw up her business. I'd love to hear the employers side of the story.

touts wrote:

Either way valuable lesson learned. Don't set fire to your bridges until you are sure the bridge you are on has been completed.

You must be joking right? I am you are 100% serious here?

If so, i despair for you and your direct reports (if you have any) if they have to put with that twisted nonsensical logic

Potatoeman

no.8 wrote: »

Leaving out an ingredient? Are you you sure you don't mean accidentally adding one wrt the allergy reference?

OP. You just have 1 week and you're done in that hell hole. Be strong and don't even respond to them. If you're up to it, just do your hours, focus on the customers and head off. Leave a poor reference for the employers.

Sorry, you are correct. I mean adding a non listed ingredients.

I’d just be very wary getting a reference from these people.

kravmaga

antimatterx wrote: »

They legally can't give a negative one.

Most employers now just give a Statement of Employment, thats it.

sheepsh4gger

seamus wrote: »

They can. There is no law prohibiting a bad reference.

You can sue for defamation if what they say about you is untrue (or can't be proven), but there is no law which makes it illegal to give a bad reference.

Funny, when I quit my job years ago the boss said it's illegal to give bad reference. But he was from the UK.

sheepsh4gger

sheepsh4gger wrote: »

Funny, when I quit my job years ago the boss said it's illegal to give bad reference. But he was from the UK.

He was wrong in both jurisdictions.

dennyk

sheepsh4gger wrote: »

Funny, when I quit my job years ago the boss said it's illegal to give bad reference. But he was from the UK.

Folks often confuse "illegal" with "legally risky" on that subject. Giving a detailed poor reference for a former employee could create a risk of legal liability, and for most employers, it's not worth the risk, so many have internal policies that they will only verify certain minimal facts about former employees when contacted for a reference (e.g. dates of employment and job title(s)). They don't have those policies because it's illegal to provide a detailed reference, though, only to avoid even the small risk of potential legal liability that a more detailed reference might bring (remember that even successfully defending a lawsuit costs a company money in the end...).

_Brian

If the employer has evidence to back up whatever they say in a reference then it’s perfectly fine.
If they are giving a poor reference on an issue that hasn’t been documented then they are taking a risk.

sheepsh4gger

_Brian wrote: »

If the employer has evidence to back up whatever they say in a reference then it’s perfectly fine.
If they are giving a poor reference on an issue that hasn’t been documented then they are taking a risk.

Are they not breaking GDPR by disclosing specifics?