Tour de France 2020 | Stage 15 (Lyon - Grand Colombier, 174.5 km)

retalivity

CantGetNoSleep wrote: »

what are the chances Bernal pulls out today and goes for the Vuelta? Hard to see Froome winning that, and hard to see Ineos caring too much given he is off

They should pull carapaz, isnt he supposed to go to the giro with thomas?

Leroy42

I don wonder if it as just a particularly bad bad for Bernal, or if he justed wasn't quite at the standard going into the tour? To me, he never looked particularly potent, although I ut that down to not wanting to fire any rockets early on, but the signs were there that he was struggling/. ALthough not to the extend that he blew yesterday.

Did Ineos make a bad call by not having Thomas of Froome there as backup?

He blew up so badly, and so early, on the final climb.

lawrencesummers

He pulled out of the last race (CDD) because of a “minor back issue” so that could be it, but either way he’s gone out of contention for the Gc now, a stage win might salvage something for the team

Macy0161

It would be naive not to have some sceptism following professional sport.

However, I'm really not seeing anything that exceptional with TJV myself. WVA one of the best riders in the world right now, and has been earmarked as that for years. Hands over to GT tour winner, and multiple GT podium. Mountain Grand Tour Stage winner Sepp Kuss still there. Gesink would be a top 10 contender in his own right, as would Bennet. They're just a stacked team. They didn't decimate the GC either - they weren't even the only team with multiple riders there at the end. Mas still had Valverde, Landa still had Bilbao late in the stage. If anything TJV haven't got the gains they might have expected.

I personally had my doubts about Bernal quality - pretty much all the Alpine stages last year were shortened, including the one he "won" and made the most time on. Yet the commentary has been that this was his terrain? Quintana's early year form hasn't been there since racing resumed.

TJV "dominance" is being framed by Ineos collapse. And if you really analyse it, their domestiques haven't performed for the previous 2 Tours either.

Just enjoy the f*cking great racing we're seeing. All to play for in the final week, including the GC!

lissard

It wouldn't surprise me at all to see some dick move from Astana and Movistar some time in the next week. An attack straight after a crash or somehting of that ilk. I expect to see Lopez make the podium - he always goes well in week 3. For Pogacar to win without a meaningful team would be very close to unprecedented. Best Tour in a long time.

Macy0161

Macy0161 wrote: »

It would be naive not to have some sceptism following professional sport.

However, I'm really not seeing anything that exceptional with TJV myself. WVA one of the best riders in the world right now, and has been earmarked as that for years. Hands over to GT tour winner, and multiple GT podium. Mountain Grand Tour Stage winner Sepp Kuss still there. Gesink would be a top 10 contender in his own right, as would Bennet. They're just a stacked team. They didn't decimate the GC either - they weren't even the only team with multiple riders there at the end. Mas still had Valverde, Landa still had Bilbao late in the stage. If anything TJV haven't got the gains they might have expected.

I personally had my doubts about Bernal quality - pretty much all the Alpine stages last year were shortened, including the one he "won" and made the most time on. Yet the commentary has been that this was his terrain? Quintana's early year form hasn't been there since racing resumed.

TJV "dominance" is being framed by Ineos collapse. And if you really analyse it, their domestiques haven't performed for the previous 2 Tours either.

Just enjoy the f*cking great racing we're seeing. All to play for in the final week, including the GC!

This is it, Kwiatkowski looks much better than he did at the tour last year but a shadow of his former self to me. Carapaz does not look like a grand tour winner in the sense that Tom D does for Jumbo. He's been all over the place. Sivakov it's hard to know what shape he's in due to the crashes. Luke Row is no Tony Martin and Amador is nowhere near is previous form.

Leroy42

Deleted User wrote: »

This is it, Kwiatkowski looks much better than he did at the tour last year but a shadow of his former self to me. Carapaz does not look like a grand tour winner in the sense that Tom D does for Jumbo. He's been all over the place. Sivakov it's hard to know what shape he's in due to the crashes. Luke Row is no Tony Martin and Amador is nowhere near is previous form.

Which all makes the dropping of Thomas, and less so Froome, as so strange. They seemed to have simply believed that Bernal was good enough all on his own.

I'm not saying that they got Bernal wrong, I have no idea what is leading to his performance, could be anything, but to have no backup at all seems really strange.

Macy0161

Carapaz was signed as domestique for me. Getting time in a break is very different from the Sky/ Ineos Grand Tour Strategy. He wasn't even the leader of Movistar in the Giro he won. Their mistake was not bringing Thomas for me. More of a track record than Bernal.

Dodge

Leroy42 wrote: »

Which all makes the dropping of Thomas, and less so Froome, as so strange. They seemed to have simply believed that Bernal was good enough all on his own.

I'm not saying that they got Bernal wrong, I have no idea what is leading to his performance, could be anything, but to have no backup at all seems really strange.

I think the decision to drop Thomas and Froome has as much to do with ego as anything else. They may not have wanted to play domestique to Bernal. Bernal, Carapaz and Sivakov is a very strong trio but Bernal is clear leader. They got unlucky with Sivakov obviously and after that Bernal just didn’t have the form yesterday.

Considering their record at the Tour, I think you have to give Brailsford the benefit of the doubt on the selections even if the result won’t bear that out.

And I say that as someone who’s enjoyed seeing them fail this year.

at1withmyself

no_4 wrote: »

Are you saying that Ineos were hampered more in their prep than all the other teams ? Strange idea

Not sure why it's a strange idea. Of course all teams were effected by covid but some handled it better then others, not sure how that's a strange concept. But anyway as much as I dislike team sky I just wouldn't write them off yet.

neris

lissard wrote: »

It wouldn't surprise me at all to see some dick move from Astana and Movistar some time in the next week. An attack straight after a crash or somehting of that ilk. I expect to see Lopez make the podium - he always goes well in week 3. For Pogacar to win without a meaningful team would be very close to unprecedented. Best Tour in a long time.

Movistar have been very quiet this year, youd barely know Valverde is in the race

lissard

In fairness he is about 103 at this stage ;-). Didn't stop him staying with the main GC group right to the end yesterday.

no_4

I merely pointed out that there ARE genuine questions raised about sky over many years, and none , as yet, about jumbo
and now because of dominance on one grand tour , former sky fanboys want to try tarnish jumbo similarlyThrough innuendo
I just give team jumbo a lot of credit at the moment for their team selection and their results so far and I for one enjoyed the stage, it seems that some sky fanboys find it difficult to see their team get comprehensively spanked and bossed




="MPFGLB;114605305"]I m sure if anyone dug around like they did for SKY there may be similar skeletons in the cupboard of the former rabobank cycling team :rolleyes:

Where are the 'Fancy Bears' when you need them
Or where is the Dutch parliamentary enquiry into Rabobank/ Team JV

No give me a break
To think SKY were doing anything the other dont is totally ridiculous
They just bought the best riders and JV have now done the same

To denigrate SKY/Ineos and hail TJV makes no sense at all

They are just the same very strong teams who ride the same and make GT racing very very boring[/quote]

Eamonnator

no_4 wrote: »

I merely pointed out that there ARE genuine questions raised about sky over many years, and none , as yet, about jumbo
and now because of dominance on one grand tour , former sky fanboys want to try tarnish jumbo similarlyThrough innuendo
I just give team jumbo a lot of credit at the moment for their team selection and their results so far and I for one enjoyed the stage, it seems that some sky fanboys find it difficult to see their team get comprehensively spanked and bossed

Now that Sky isn't in the name of the team, isn't it time to think up a new derogatory name for their fans.

redlead

lissard wrote: »

For Pogacar to win without a meaningful team would be very close to unprecedented. Best Tour in a long time.

Rasmussen was well on his way to doing it in 07 before he tested positive for half a GSK plant

Mefistofelino

redlead wrote: »

Rasmussen was well on his way to doing it in 07 before he tested positive for half a GSK plant

Rasmussen never tested positive during his career. He was taken off the Tour by his team for lying about his whereabouts and dodging the testers. He said he was in Mexico, but he was spotted in Italy
(which led to this cracking ad https://youtu.be/HCNFW1pSIP4 )


He did admit to doping as he retired.

redlead

Mefistofelino wrote: »

Rasmussen never tested positive during his career. He was taken off the Tour by his team for lying about his whereabouts and dodging the testers. He said he was in Mexico, but he was spotted in Italy
(which led to this cracking ad https://youtu.be/HCNFW1pSIP4 )


He did admit to doping as he retired.

Fair enough, he was a one man show that year if memory serves my correctly though.

That ad is brilliant by the way. Haven't seen it before haha

lissard

A better analogy might be Dumoulin in the Vuelta. He was heading GC with athe support of a team built for sprints right up until the final mountain stage. Aru and Astana ambushed him in the end, tough to beat a strong team no matter how good a rider is. I have a feeling that this is what will happen to Pogacar. Hope i'm wrong and if so we are witnessing the second coming - after all UAE were Lampre only a few short years ago.

Macy0161

Eamonnator wrote: »

Now that Sky isn't in the name of the team, isn't it time to think up a new derogatory name for their fans.

The Gammoniers

MPFGLB

no_4 wrote: »

I merely pointed out that there ARE genuine questions raised about sky over many years, and none , as yet, about jumbo
and now because of dominance on one grand tour , former sky fanboys want to try tarnish jumbo similarlyThrough innuendo
I just give team jumbo a lot of credit at the moment for their team selection and their results so far and I for one enjoyed the stage, it seems that some sky fanboys find it difficult to see their team get comprehensively spanked and bossed

Hey who you calling a fan boy ?

I dont care about neither team really as both the same to me which was my point all along. And yes its true no one in cycling is doing anything the other dont do...sorry if that upsets any TJV fans

Team of the Tour for me is Sunweb and I like Sam Bennett & Nico Roche

Best Rider is Pogacar and have a soft spot for Richie Porte who I hope gets on the podium

Allaphilipe,De Gendt and Schachmann are also riders I admire

CramCycle

Nico is having a savage tour, he is just incredible.

MPFGLB

CramCycle wrote: »

Nico is having a savage tour, he is just incredible.

And his injuries arel effecting him as he tries to recover

I know on stage 6 he blew but that was because he had no racing hardly since his crash in August last year at the Vuelta