Dad hiding alcohol in child's water bottle

Hannibal_Smith

L2020 wrote: »

That's what I want. But I didn't feel i should be the one to go behind his back and tell her. I want to hear the full truth and extent of what he is going through instead of lies and excuses and then for him to tell it to her too. I understand that he won't admit he has a problem until he is ready but surely doing this to your young child is enough of a reason to accept you need help.

Do people think I should have contacted her myself? I just felt a more gentle and empathetic approach would make him feel like he had enough support to come clean, rather than his girlfriend hitting the roof etc.. I don't know how her reaction will be but I didnt want to ambush him. I just want to hear the true extent of the problem.

I'm not suggesting an ambush, but surely your child was staying in their house and ended up going to school with beer in his drink bottle. So a conversation between the three of you has to be had? How else can you start to rebuild relationships?

How did your kids get to school?

If the worry of suicide is such that you feel you cant curtail sleepovers, thats something the girlfriend would want to know? He has said she'd be concerned and wouldn't hit the roof.

Jim Root

I suspect this is probably the tip of the iceberg, if his condition is a chronic as to hide alcohol in a child’s bottle, can you imagine some of the other stuff he has probably done and gotten away with? No judgement here, but the person needs professional help, fast.

L2020

Hannibal_Smith wrote: »

I'm not suggesting an ambush, but surely your child was staying in their house and ended up going to school with beer in his drink bottle. So a conversation between the three of you has to be had? How else can you start to rebuild relationships?

How did your kids get to school?

If the worry of suicide is such that you feel you cant curtail sleepovers, thats something the girlfriend would want to know? He has said she'd be concerned and wouldn't hit the roof.

I fully intend to sit down with the pair of them, I just wanted him to tell her first. I will definitely curtail sleepovers. I just dont want to tip him over the edge by taking an angry approach and withdrawing all access etc.

L2020

Jim Root wrote: »

I suspect this is probably the tip of the iceberg, if his condition is a chronic as to hide alcohol in a child’s bottle, can you imagine some of the other stuff he has probably done and gotten away with? No judgement here, but the person needs professional help, fast.

This is how I'm feeling, but people seem to be excusing it because its 'only' beer??

notsoyoungwan

Op, I mean this kindly but I think you need to take a step back from this empathic approach of wanting to help him and wanting him to tell his gf first etc. You’re actually enabling him with all this pussyfooting around, albeit unintentionally.

Alcoholics are expert manipulators and liars. That’s the harsh truth. I mean, instead of being absolutely furious about what happened your son, about the fact that social services will be getting a notification, about the risk and the embarrassment to him, your concern is more about your ex-husband and how him having to face up to the consequences of his own actions might impact him? Your kids are getting sucked into the life of living with an alcoholic, the deceit, the lies, everything- you say one of them was questioning the half a can story given the capacity of the bottle, and the other one was telling you about how he doesn’t drink in front of the gf etc. Is this really what you want for your children? Watching and absorbing all that sh1t?

You really should contact Al-anon for advice. They’re incredibly helpful and have a lot of experience.

HBC08

L2020 wrote: »

This is how I'm feeling, but people seem to be excusing it because its 'only' beer??

Everything in your story adds up and you are obviously a smart and compassionate person.
The thing that doesnt make sense is the beer aspect as some have pointed out.Ive dealt with many alcoholics over the years and yes some only drank beer (minority though) .Almost all of them hid drink,around the house,in water bottles etc but hiding a beer doesnt make sense to me.It wouldnt take the edge off,its too much liquid to be hiding,he would need to be going out to the kitchen every 10 mins and downing a can in one gulp,it just doesnt ad up to me.
I wish you the best and hope you can resolve this.

L2020

notsoyoungwan wrote: »

Op, I mean this kindly but I think you need to take a step back from this empathic approach of wanting to help him and wanting him to tell his gf first etc. You’re actually enabling him with all this pussyfooting around, albeit unintentionally.

Alcoholics are expert manipulators and liars. That’s the harsh truth. I mean, instead of being absolutely furious about what happened your son, about the fact that social services will be getting a notification, about the risk and the embarrassment to him, your concern is more about your ex-husband and how him having to face up to the consequences of his own actions might impact him? Your kids are getting sucked into the life of living with an alcoholic, the deceit, the lies, everything- you say one of them was questioning the half a can story given the capacity of the bottle, and the other one was telling you about how he doesn’t drink in front of the gf etc. Is this really what you want for your children? Watching and absorbing all that sh1t?

You really should contact Al-anon for advice. They’re incredibly helpful and have a lot of experience.

Ok thank you. This literally only happened yesterday and I phoned him immediately. I did tell him if he didnt tell me the truth of the nature of the problem that I would go to his family and girlfriend myself. He asked me for 24hrs. So by this afternoon something will be done and I will be phoning them if he hasn't. Am definitely not going to be plamaused etc.

Zarco

HBC08 wrote: »

Everything in your story adds up and you are obviously a smart and compassionate person.
The thing that doesnt make sense is the beer aspect as some have pointed out.Ive dealt with many alcoholics over the years and yes some only drank beer (minority though) .Almost all of them hid drink,around the house,in water bottles etc but hiding a beer doesnt make sense to me.It wouldnt take the edge off,its too much liquid to be hiding,he would need to be going out to the kitchen every 10 mins and downing a can in one gulp,it just doesnt ad up to me.
I wish you the best and hope you can resolve this.

Some drink beer.

Drinking beer and hiding beer is an attempt to control

The phrase'good helps those that hello themselves' was borne from these scenarios.

He is an adult with a problem, he needs to seek and take the help. You can't do it for him.

Doesn't matter if it's alcohol, smoking, drugs or gambling. Until they have the resolve and desire to quit for good, it won't happen.

notsoyoungwan

L2020 wrote: »

Ok thank you. This literally only happened yesterday and I phoned him immediately. I did tell him if he didnt tell me the truth of the nature of the problem that I would go to his family and girlfriend myself. He asked me for 24hrs. So by this afternoon something will be done and I will be phoning them if he hasn't. Am definitely not going to be plamaused etc.

I appreciate that it’s very easy for me to be objective here and impossible for you to be, so I may seem harsh but... this is all part of his manipulation. why does he need 24 hrs to tell the truth? So this afternoon he tells you the version of the truth that he’s had 24 hours to prepare, and you’ll fall for it and therefore say nothing to his gf and family, so now you’re complicit in his behaviour and ultimately his lies. He’s making his problem your responsibility. It’ll soon be “you promised to help me... I just need more time” etc. You have absolutely no way of knowing if what he tells you this afternoon is the whole truth. But I guarantee you it won’t be. It’ll be enough to reel you in, have you feeling even more sorry for him than you do at the moment, and have you shouldering the burden of trying to help him while he’ll carry on doing what he’s doing, except he’ll be a bit more cautious this time, he’ll get more devious with his behaviour. Meanwhile your kids will continue to live with this and have to deal with the consequences of his behaviour, which is seriously damaging to children. He has done such a good job of manipulating you that your focus is actually now on him instead of on the young innocent children who are having their lives impacted by his addiction.

begbysback

L2020 wrote: »

Ok thank you. This literally only happened yesterday and I phoned him immediately. I did tell him if he didnt tell me the truth of the nature of the problem that I would go to his family and girlfriend myself. He asked me for 24hrs. So by this afternoon something will be done and I will be phoning them if he hasn't. Am definitely not going to be plamaused etc.

You need to go to his father first, if he is 40 years sober he will be able to approach the problem from the best angle, if not by himself then he will most likely know someone who can talk to him.

pinkfloyd34

I think this now may be your problem too because the teacher now knows about it,he/she will be obliged to tell the principal. The child is in the schools care for that day so the principal might have to get tusla involved. If that does happens you are going to have social workers breathing down your neck for the foreseeable future. We know it might be a error on your exs part but in this day and age, teachers and principals and tusla takes child welfare very serious and a child bringing a beer to school in a child's container is a major issue in my book, when ye divorced was his drinking brought up in the court case and was there a section 20 where social workers checked out where the kids would be sleeping on access visits?

Hoboo

L2020 wrote: »

It was put in his bag by his dad. My older son says he never drinks around his girlfriend. When my older son and his are watching a movie my son said he goes out the kitchen for a drink but doesnt take anything back with him, and he can smell that its beer. The girlfriend isnt there with him.

I've explained in earlier posts that his reactions to it have set off alarm bells. His story kept changing. He admitted his girlfriend has had problems with his drinking. I felt he had drink issues in our past. He admitted she would be concerned if she found out what happened. I hope you're right but unfortunately I don't believe it.

So what's his motive for hiding it.

He's hiding it from the kids so you don't find out. The kids can only report back. Could he be having a couple of casuals and is afraid you'll think its more, so he's hiding it not because it's a shed load of beer but ANY alcohal. Maybe his story keeps changing because he's afraid to say the wrong thing. Because he's now been caught doing something ridiculous, and a tell of an issue, hiding alcohal. Or is the real issue that he feels he has to hide it for fear of what you'll say?


You sound pretty level headed and fair by how you described his new gf, but maybe he's afraid of losing the kids? So any beer with his past could be an issue with you (in his eyes), which it probably wouldn't be only he's doing daft things like hiding it from the kids so you'd don't know, and again in his eyes, think he's on the lash when he's not.

I'm only playing devil's advocate, you know him better than anyone. Just doesn't sound like an alcoholic hiding his addiction because it's an actual issue, he could be just guilty of being afraid of doing and saying the wrong thing.

Using the kids containers though is a no no.

Best of luck with it all.

L2020

To answer some questions,
The drinking was never an issue within the separation. I felt it had settled down by the end of the marriage. The separation was mutual and amicable and done through mediation so never had to go through courts.

To the poster who said I would be fed a version of lies in which he had 24hrs to come up with, I totally agree and it is something my current partner who had an alcoholic parent said would happen. They always ask for time..

To the poster who said who is he hiding it from, it must be his girlfriend. It's nothing to do with the kids reporting back his drinking to me as there is no issues (up until now) with me and his drinking as I thought things had turned a corner with him.

tara73

OP, I think you are doing everything right here. Giving him the chance to let his partner know by himself and all that.


Kudos to you for handling it all so well!

LegacyUser

OP, you are doing brilliantly. I think your ex is very lucky that he has such strong support, even if he doesn't realise it. Hopefully his father can help him also.
You're handling it just the way you should, with compassion, but not blinded by it. Keep being firm with him.
I suggest that you have three conversations this weekend, first with the ex, then his partner, and then his dad. It would then be ideal to have all of you sit down together this weekend and have a very frank conversation about the drinking.
I know how much of a slippery slope it is for addicts, "It's just one can, what harm can it do... everyone is giving me such a hard time, but it's only beer."
As a very young child, I learnt that my parent prioritised a substance over their own children's health and safety. Long story short, there were no serious consequences, so when they got a fright, they got over it quite quickly, and it wouldn't have any affect on their drinking. They're in their 70s now and have no relationship with any of their kids, but in their head, we're unreasonable and cruel to them.

Your ex needs to realise that he hasn't just made a little mistake that can be forgotten about after making some weak excuses, he has drawn social services to your door, and he needs to realise just how serious that is.
He needs to cop on to himself and realise that his need to hide his drinking is putting his kids at risk. He should also be very concerned at what happened, not just his partner...
600ml is more than a pint, so the unfinished can just doesn't wash...
Show him compassion OP, but don't be afraid to also show him how upset you are. He has let himself down, as well as everyone else. He's letting his addiction affect your kids, so much so that your 8 year old child, not even half the legal drinking age, innocently brought 600ml of beer into school.
The story about the unfinished can is a very weak excuse and your ex surely knows this...

Best of luck, OP, I hope it works out, and that he accepts the help and compassion that is around him.

L2020

Thank you very much to everyone for all your help and advice. He phoned me there just like he said he would and he admitted that he has a problem and he broke down. He said he doesn't drink everyday, he does only drink beer, but theres a reliance there and once he starts he can't seem to stop. His partner has brought this up on numerous occasions. He has let her down on nights out just like he used to do to me, but mainly the drinking happens Thursday Friday and Saturdays. She is out today, but he is going to tell her everything tomorrow, and then go to his dad. He said he will do everything he can now to make things right. I said I had heard it all before, but he said what happened on friday with our son has made it all very real and he has to deal with it now.

Hoboo

L2020 wrote: »

To the poster who said who is he hiding it from, it must be his girlfriend. It's nothing to do with the kids reporting back his drinking to me as there is no issues (up until now) with me and his drinking as I thought things had turned a corner with him.

If it must be his girlfriend, but yet she wasn't there, and he's not hiding it from the kids who may say it to you, who then is he hiding it from? What's his motive for putting it in the beaker on that night. We've established it's not to hide it from anyone, girlfriend or kids, so why isn't using the beaker because it's air tight a plausible reason? No other motive has been offered and without that it's just gossip.

There's none that I can see now the rest have been crossed off. I think it's 2+2=5 for whatever reason you have, everything seems very contradictory and focused on him being an alcoholic, and not the facts of the situation.

L2020

Hoboo wrote: »

If it must be his girlfriend, but yet she wasn't there, and he's not hiding it from the kids who may say it to you, who then is he hiding it from? What's his motive for putting it in the beaker on that night. We've established it's not to hide it from anyone, girlfriend or kids, so why isn't using the beaker because it's air tight a plausible reason? No other motive has been offered and without that it's just gossip.

There's none that I can see now the rest have been crossed off. I think it's 2+2=5 for whatever reason you have, everything seems very contradictory and focused on him being an alcoholic, and not the facts of the situation.

I just posted right before you, you might not have read it yet. He has just phoned me and admitted he has a problem with drink. Turns out my instinct (and the fact I know him for 20yrs) was right.

neonsofa

L2020 wrote: »

I just posted right before you, you might not have read it yet. He has just phoned me and admitted he has a problem with drink. Turns out my instinct (and the fact I know him for 20yrs) was right.

I wish you and your family the best. Hopefully this was his wake up call, although I know from experience that sometimes people need a few of these before it finally hits home.

Just on the school point. I know you said you will be getting in touch with them so there may be no need to say this, but I would be extremely concerned that they didn't raise it with you. What if your child never said anything to you, you'd be none the wiser about the extent of their dads problem. You wouldn't have known to have a talk with your son and reassure him. Maybe, as others have said, the teacher raised it within the school, but if it had been my child and they didn't inform me, I'd be getting on to them first thing to discuss their duty of care to the child in a situation like this, and to be additionally alert to anything else like this in future.

To send the child home without giving a heads up to a parent seems a little negligent, although admittedly i am viewing that from the point of view of someone who wouldnt be defensive to it being raised with me- they aren't to know who the beer belongs to or how the parent would react to being told about it, so maybe im being naive about them raising it directly. I would hope it would have been dealt with in some capacity in the school though, even if just from a point of keeping an eye on the child. I would definitely be asking about that though.

L2020

neonsofa wrote: »

I wish you and your family the best. Hopefully this was his wake up call, although I know from experience that sometimes people need a few of these before it finally hits home.

Just on the school point. I know you said you will be getting in touch with them so there may be no need to say this, but I would be extremely concerned that they didn't raise it with you. What if your child never said anything to you, you'd be none the wiser about the extent of their dads problem. You wouldn't have known to have a talk with your son and reassure him. Maybe, as others have said, the teacher raised it within the school, but if it had been my child and they didn't inform me, I'd be getting on to them first thing to discuss their duty of care to the child in a situation like this, and to be additionally alert to anything else like this in future.

To send the child home without giving a heads up to a parent seems a little negligent, although admittedly i am viewing that from the point of view of someone who wouldnt be defensive to it being raised with me- they aren't to know who the beer belongs to or how the parent would react to being told about it, so maybe im being naive about them raising it directly. I would hope it would have been dealt with in some capacity in the school though, even if just from a point of keeping an eye on the child. I would definitely be asking about that though.

Thank you. It could be all to come. It literally only happened at 2.30pm on friday so they may have had to discuss it before contacting me. I'll be expecting something on monday, and if not, I would be disappointed as you said.. this literally all happened by chance or I'd be none the wiser.

neonsofa

L2020 wrote: »

Thank you. It could be all to come. It literally only happened at 2.30pm on friday so they may have had to discuss it before contacting me. I'll be expecting something on monday, and if not, I would be disappointed as you said.. this literally all happened by chance or I'd be none the wiser.

Hopefully that is the case. Try relax over the weekend. Easier said than done, I know. Look after yourself.

JustAThought

I wouod be reluctant to get the school involved as they will have to trigger child protection alerts with Tulsa and you din’t want your kids to be saddled with social welfare caseworkers and the stigma this would involve with their peers.

Is your kids water
bottle metallic/insulated? Probably why he was using it to disguise his beer in...hides it and keeps it icy cold. If your old partner is hiding his drinking from his g/f and your child knows he goes into the kitchen for a drink but never brings one out as his g/f dosn’t drink/approve then perhaps there is more going on than meets the eye. Rather than barring your /his children from spending time with him could you ensure his g/f is there when they visit? At least you will know there is at least one 100% sober adult in the house and children still need their father - at least this way you know there is a safetynet. Addicts/ex addicts can never really be fully trusted to he sober/clean but even the courts will recognise he is still their father and they need him. Don’t get sucked down the rabbit hole of trying to cure your ex - his current g/f will not thank you and you need yo be free of the stress of it to be there for your children and new partner fully and emotionally.

L2020

JustAThought wrote: »

I wouod be reluctant to get the school involved as they will have to trigger child protection alerts with Tulsa and you din’t want your kids to be saddled with social welfare caseworkers and the stigma this would involve with their peers.

Is your kids water
bottle metallic/insulated? Probably why he was using it to disguise his beer in...hides it and keeps it icy cold. If your old partner is hiding his drinking from his g/f and your child knows he goes into the kitchen for a drink but never brings one out as his g/f dosn’t drink/approve then perhaps there is more going on than meets the eye. Rather than barring your /his children from spending time with him could you ensure his g/f is there when they visit? At least you will know there is at least one 100% sober adult in the house and children still need their father - at least this way you know there is a safetynet. Addicts/ex addicts can never really be fully trusted to he sober/clean but even the courts will recognise he is still their father and they need him. Don’t get sucked down the rabbit hole of trying to cure your ex - his current g/f will not thank you and you need yo be free of the stress of it to be there for your children and new partner fully and emotionally.

Thank you for your advice, no the bottle is plastic..
He has admitted his problem to me and is going to talk to his girlfriend and father today and then make a plan to get help. I will then talk to his girlfriend and make sure she is fully present when the kids visit, as they cannot not see their dad indefinitely. It wouldnt be fair on anyone.

Zarco

Social welfare is there to help

The alerts are there for a good reason

JustAThought

L2020 wrote: »

Thank you for your advice, no the bottle is plastic..
He has admitted his problem to me and is going to talk to his girlfriend and father today and then make a plan to get help. I will then talk to his girlfriend and make sure she is fully present when the kids visit, as they cannot not see their dad indefinitely. It wouldnt be fair on anyone.

Best of luck with it. Addicts are remarkably selfish and calculating for their own needs - I doubt if he has got to the stage of hiding beer in childrens bottles that he has just suddenly lapsed - more just suddenly been caught. If he is not violent/abusive His kids will love him regardless - smart move making sure the partner is there but step back from all the shennanigans - addicts take and will take forever - you have to focus on your mental health and new relationship not the old looped past replaying itself and trampling over your future.

L2020

JustAThought wrote: »

Best of luck with it. Addicts are remarkably selfish and calculating for their own needs - I doubt if he has got to the stage of hiding beer in childrens bottles that he has just suddenly lapsed - more just suddenly been caught. If he is not violent/abusive His kids will love him regardless - smart move making sure the partner is there but step back from all the shennanigans - addicts take and will take forever - you have to focus on your mental health and new relationship not the old looped past replaying itself and trampling over your future.

Yes you are 100% right. No he is not violent or abusive, thankfully. His girlfriend is very sensible and responsible and from what he said she is already on his case about it, hence the hiding it.

JustAThought

L2020 wrote: »

Yes you are 100% right. No he is not violent or abusive, thankfully. His girlfriend is very sensible and responsible and from what he said she is already on his case about it, hence the hiding it.

Some leopards like their spots and have no intentions of changing them - only using better camaflague. He has a new world and gf and is a nice man l, you have created a happy new
life for yourself and your kids have a loving and good relationship with their father - an addiction is forever and addicts are highly needy and clever - don’t be caught in that ‘fixing’ and ‘caring’ trap. Look after your new relationship and your life - don’t be sucked back into him and his. Let him love and know his children and focus on your future and leave his g/f to the life and problems and man you left to have a better future. Best of Luck : )

shesty

I would have a word quietly yourself with the teacher though...just so she knows you are aware this happened, what the source of the problem is and that it is being addressed.Prevent it from bcoming a bigger issue on the school side through misunderstanding.

tara73

shesty wrote: »

I would have a word quietly yourself with the teacher though...just so she knows you are aware this happened, what the source of the problem is and that it is being addressed.Prevent it from bcoming a bigger issue on the school side through misunderstanding.

I think this is the way to go with the school. You don't want to become it a bigger thing, them involving whoever. I actually don't think they will do it without talking to you first.. But this is the first time something like this happened and everybody deserves a chance.
Would be over the top to make a big deal out of it fmpov, it would serve nobody, not the kids, not him and his new gf and not you.


If something happens again, different story.