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All Covid-19 measures are permanent, don't be a boiling frog!

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  • Registered Users Posts: 25,541 ✭✭✭✭Timberrrrrrrr


    Yes, there are plenty of reports of denial of service, across various media (press and twitter) and it's only been introduced as a facility just days ago.

    "For want of pen/paper" is what i said.

    I'm in Liverpool and Manchester a lot and have never been asked to scan a code or if I even have the app (I dont).

    I would eat out at least three times a week in different places, again I have never been asked to scan a code or if I even have the app.

    Personal experience says its bs, if I ever am denied service then I wouldn't go there again, its as simple as that.

    Stop trying to make out that people are being forced enmass to download the app or scan codes, its a lie.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 9,586 ✭✭✭4068ac1elhodqr


    King Mob wrote: »
    Again you say there's reports
    So google and the online press are all fake news now?
    Not a single person has been refused access or service?

    It's a simple enough scenario, a packed out cafe at lunchtime will prefer a customer whom has a quicker point of entry and ease of transaction.

    Why so hard to accept this, a serial denier?


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 9,586 ✭✭✭4068ac1elhodqr


    "For want of pen/paper" is what i said.
    Yes, and I said often you dont' have pen and paper handy when you need it most is what I said. Simple.


    You personal stories or anecdotes mean very little, of something rolled out just days ago. Of course the world itself does not revolve around one person, it's a great big world out there.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 9,586 ✭✭✭4068ac1elhodqr


    Of course the vast majority of QRCodes are genuine, more so the official ones on open, and fully operational premesis.
    There is still always the small risk however of the little graphic square containing a box of frogs, or bag of cats.

    1EdzQLg.png


  • Registered Users Posts: 25,541 ✭✭✭✭Timberrrrrrrr


    Yes, and I said often you dont' have pen and paper handy when you need it most is what I said. Simple.


    You personal stories or anecdotes mean very little, of something rolled out just days ago. Of course the world itself does not revolve around one person, it's a great big world out there.

    You don't need to carry it though, places have these supplied either a book at the door that you sign or slips of paper on your table (witherspoon do this) there is no hurry to sign straight away therefore no panic.

    But you need to believe this as it feeds into your scaremongering about tattoos and Mark of the beast biblical end of times theory.

    Time for bed, try not to lose too much sleep over things you obviously know nothing about.


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  • Registered Users Posts: 25,234 ✭✭✭✭King Mob


    So google and the online press are all fake news now?
    You haven't provided any sources for any of those claims.
    You are now fluctuating from the idea that this was going to be something forced on everyone to "a single person being refused service".

    Also given how you conspiracy theorist have been claiming basically all news and science is controlled fake news I find this latest statement a bit disingenuous.

    Again you are scaremongering.
    You shouldn't do that just to indulge in fantasies.


  • Registered Users Posts: 17,947 ✭✭✭✭Dohnjoe


    Since last Thurs (24 Sept) businesses (designated types and organisations, including hospitality, close contact services, and leisure venues) in England, MUST (by law) display a QR Code Poster, at their entrance, or face a £1,000 quid fine if they don't.

    It's up to a £4,000 fine. And here's the context.

    You keep endlessly raising these alarmist paranoid talking points, then never ever explaining what the conspiracy is behind them.


  • Registered Users Posts: 17,947 ✭✭✭✭Dohnjoe


    brianhere wrote: »
    Anybody who has eyes to see can surely see that we are turning into a Chinese Communist Party type of society, rapidly. The virus has nothing to do with it.

    No we aren't. We are dealing with a pandemic that doesn't care about people's political or religious or whatever beliefs, it just spreads, and we have to take corresponding measures to deal with it.

    And right on cue, conspiracy theorists and crank magnets are going mental because they perpetually believe the government is about to enslave us all, or kill us with 5G, or barcode us for reasons they can never explain.


  • Registered Users Posts: 6,464 ✭✭✭MOH



    The issue around QRCode safety remains, anyone can stick a poster up with this usin custom code e.g. on a closed/vacant shop and use it for data hacks.

    Hang on, I thought the whole issue was that people were being forced to use some app to scan a QR code, or else be denied service in a shop.

    Why then would somebody be scanning random QR codes on closed or vacant shops?

    (Also you do realise they're effectively just barcodes but with greater capacity? They're just encoded text. Any of the potential nefarious misuses in the image you linked rely on an app interpreting that text. Plus that company seems to actually sells mobile authentication systems which use QR codes).


  • Registered Users Posts: 25,234 ✭✭✭✭King Mob


    Dohnjoe wrote: »
    for reasons they can never explain.
    Or in some cases reasons they don't want to explain in full because they realise that their beliefs would be off putting for most people.


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  • Registered Users Posts: 1,811 ✭✭✭mrslancaster


    Sorry I'm a bit confused, is this a new requirement in the UK that's being discussed?


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 9,586 ✭✭✭4068ac1elhodqr


    MOH wrote: »
    Hang on, I thought the whole issue was that people were being forced to use some app to scan a QR code, or else be denied service in a shop.
    This is the case, and there are already various reports of this occuring, it's a small minority currently, but it does seem to be starting to occur. Most likely will increase as this becomes a more permanent measure.
    MOH wrote: »
    Why then would somebody be scanning random QR codes on closed or vacant shops?
    Marketing, advertising, offers too good to miss etc.

    The introduction of QRCodes introduces a new popular vector for hackers.
    It's really not that different from the whole TXT/SMS scans that occur, but is more sophisticated.

    QRC are not 'just barcodes' (only simpletons think this), fact is these scans can contain various data queries, data strings, variables etc - to edit, create, or modify data on users smartphones (see above image).

    If you're using within the confines of a locked down app, fine.
    If however you're using the standard phone camera to parase the code, then (see above image) on the security risks.
    MOH wrote: »
    (Also you do realise they're effectively just barcodes but with greater capacity? They're just encoded text.
    This is again a very technically ignorant and misinformed view.
    A simple scan using any defualt iOS/And phone camera can create and perform various funcitons.
    Sorry I'm a bit confused, is this a new requirement in the UK that's being discussed?
    This was introduced as law last Thur (Eng only, so far).
    i.e. Designated venues must display QRCode posters at their entrance for track n' trace, yes, you can use pen and paper alternatives, but a venue reserves the right to refuse entry, if there is an issue with manual data capture (staffing, time, out of ink, out of paper etc), and if you then refuse the alternative: to start scanning the QRCode poster: no service.

    Other regions around the world have already introducted the concept of no QR, no entry. Will likely increase in popularity (process efficiency).

    There has also been incidences of shops refusing cash, again for 'operational' reasons e.g. low staffing, citing the pandemic, or simply it takes more time to complete transactions.
    Perhaps this could be viewed as 'digital apartheid'.


  • Registered Users Posts: 17,947 ✭✭✭✭Dohnjoe




    This was introduced as law last Thur (Eng only, so far).
    i.e. Designated venues must display QRCode posters at their entrance for track n' trace, yes, you can use pen and paper alternatives, but a venue reserves the right to refuse entry, if there is an issue with manual data capture (staffing, time, out of ink, out of paper etc), and if you then refuse the alternative: to start scanning the QRCode poster: no service.

    Other regions around the world have already introducted the concept of no QR, no entry. Will likely increase in popularity (process efficiency).

    There has also been incidences of shops refusing cash, again for 'operational' reasons e.g. low staffing, citing the pandemic, or simply it takes more time to complete transactions.
    Perhaps this could be viewed as 'digital apartheid'.

    Lol.

    It's because there's a pandemic. Likewise, shops are not taking cash because the virus can be passed on notes and coins. You keep trying to imbue these normal responses to the virus with "evil" "nefarious" stuff, then sitting on the fence whenever you are asked to explain what that nefarious stuff is. It's hilarious.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 9,586 ✭✭✭4068ac1elhodqr


    Dohnjoe wrote: »
    It's because there's a pandemic.
    Clearly. but it does present a very clear push towards a cashless society.
    One that is unlikely to ever be reversed (cost effective for business, to de-personalise services).

    Now also, thanks to QRCs (easily subject to attagging*) starting to appear at the entrances to many an establishment, it's a dumb (old Nokia etc) phone-less society too.
    * A QR with an 'URL data type' may host JavaScript code, which can be used to exploit vulnerabilities in applications on the host system, such as the reader, the web browser or the image viewer, since a reader will typically send the data to the application associated with the data type used by the QR code.

    In the case of no software exploits, malicious QR codes combined with a permissive reader can still put a computer's contents and user's privacy at risk. This practice is known as "attack tagging". They are easily created and can be affixed over legitimate QR codes (mono print out). On a smartphone, the reader's permissions may allow use of the camera, full Internet access, read/write contact data, GPS, read browser history, read/write local storage, and global system changes.

    Risks include linking to dangerous web sites with browser exploits, enabling the microphone/camera/GPS, and then streaming those feeds to a remote server, analysis of sensitive data (passwords, files, contacts, transactions), and sending email/SMS/IM messages or DDOS packets as part of a botnet, corrupting privacy settings, stealing identity,[90] and even containing malicious logic themselves such as JavaScript or a virus. These actions could occur in the background while the user is only seeing the reader opening a seemingly harmless web page. In Russ, a malicious QR code caused phones that scanned it to send premium texts at a fee of US$6 each.

    Meanwhile the folks down in Aus (always a few years ahead of the West) are rolling out the cashless {80%} welfare card. The 'blocked merchants' will of course include the local bottle shop, cigs, casinos, ATM's and anything else the downtrodden are told they can't have.

    Time to bin the old (reliable, bug free) nokia phone, and surrender cash.
    All fine for the young tech swavy of us, the old folks however will struggle in this new near-permanent measure on the way.


  • Registered Users Posts: 17,947 ✭✭✭✭Dohnjoe


    Clearly. but it does present a very clear push towards a cashless society.

    No it doesn't. As explained, due to the pandemic, shops don't like handling cash and coins.

    Also people are paying more with digital methods because it's generally easier and more convenient.

    Again you are trying to insert a vague sinister narrative where there is none, look up any of the old cashless conspiracy threads and you'll find plenty of "mark of the beast" bible prophecy types. That's the only connection you should be making.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 9,586 ✭✭✭4068ac1elhodqr


    Dohnjoe wrote: »
    No it doesn't. As explained, due to the pandemic, shops don't like handling cash and coins. Also people are paying more with digital methods because it's generally easier and more convenient.
    Don't like, is different from 'Won't accept, and denial of service' (potentially for: both entry, and for transaction).
    Staff also manually handle all goods that are brought to the counter, some staff will even load the shopping bag with handled goods.

    As we know already covid will survive much longer on typical shop shelve products and touch points, that it will do on change with any brass or copper alloy based coinage content (euro coins).
    Indeed a simple sprinle of salt in your pocket of coinage will render the virus envelope redundant in most cases upon simple rub or contact.
    It's also much easier to clean small coinage or notes, that some 750gms pack of cornflakes, with multiple large surface touch points.

    As the (thread title) suggests: both cashlessness, and the very new push of QRCodes are both measures (among many other) that are likely to become a permanent feature of daily lives.


  • Registered Users Posts: 17,947 ✭✭✭✭Dohnjoe


    Don't like, is different from 'Won't accept, and denial of service' (potentially for: both entry, and for transaction).
    Staff also manually handle all goods that are brought to the counter, some staff will even load the shopping bag with handled goods.

    As we know already covid will survive much longer on typical shop shelve products and touch points, that it will do on change with any brass or copper alloy based coinage content (euro coins).
    Indeed a simple sprinle of salt in your pocket of coinage will render the virus envelope redundant in most cases upon simple rub or contact.
    It's also much easier to clean small coinage or notes, that some 750gms pack of cornflakes, with multiple large surface touch points.

    As the (thread title) suggests: both cashlessness, and the very new push of QRCodes are both measures (among many other) that are likely to become a permanent feature of daily lives.

    I have no idea what you are going on about. Is there a conspiracy in any of this or is it the usual "technology is evil" stuff?


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 9,586 ✭✭✭4068ac1elhodqr


    Dohnjoe wrote: »
    I have no idea what you are going on about.
    As always, suggest reading the OP and/or the thread title.

    Hope this helps. Tallyho.


  • Registered Users Posts: 69 ✭✭nannerbenahs


    We call on politicians to be independently and critically informed in the decision-making process and in the compulsory implementation of corona-measures. We ask for an open debate, where all experts are represented without any form of censorship.

    After the initial panic surrounding covid-19, the objective facts now show a completely different picture – there is no medical justification for any emergency policy anymore.

    The current crisis management has become totally disproportionate and causes more damage than it does any good.

    We call for an end to all measures and ask for an immediate restoration of our normal democratic governance and legal structures and of all our civil liberties.

    ‘A cure must not be worse than the problem’ is a thesis that is more relevant than ever in the current situation. We note, however, that the collateral damage now being caused to the population will have a greater impact in the short and long term on all sections of the population than the number of people now being safeguarded from corona.

    In our opinion, the current corona measures and the strict penalties for non-compliance with them are contrary to the values formulated by the Belgian Supreme Health Council, which, until recently, as the health authority, has always ensured quality medicine in our country: “Science – Expertise – Quality – Impartiality – Independence – Transparency”.

    We believe that the policy has introduced mandatory measures that are not sufficiently scientifically based, unilaterally directed, and that there is not enough space in the media for an open debate in which different views and opinions are heard.


  • Registered Users Posts: 17,947 ✭✭✭✭Dohnjoe


    We call on politicians to be independently and critically informed in the decision-making process and in the compulsory implementation of corona-measures. We ask for an open debate, where all experts are represented without any form of censorship.

    After the initial panic surrounding covid-19, the objective facts now show a completely different picture – there is no medical justification for any emergency policy anymore.

    The current crisis management has become totally disproportionate and causes more damage than it does any good.

    We call for an end to all measures and ask for an immediate restoration of our normal democratic governance and legal structures and of all our civil liberties.

    ‘A cure must not be worse than the problem’ is a thesis that is more relevant than ever in the current situation. We note, however, that the collateral damage now being caused to the population will have a greater impact in the short and long term on all sections of the population than the number of people now being safeguarded from corona.

    In our opinion, the current corona measures and the strict penalties for non-compliance with them are contrary to the values formulated by the Belgian Supreme Health Council, which, until recently, as the health authority, has always ensured quality medicine in our country: “Science – Expertise – Quality – Impartiality – Independence – Transparency”.

    We believe that the policy has introduced mandatory measures that are not sufficiently scientifically based, unilaterally directed, and that there is not enough space in the media for an open debate in which different views and opinions are heard.

    What is this?

    Please tell us it isn't another "we the people" anti-mask craptacular


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  • Registered Users Posts: 411 ✭✭brianhere


    Its from the Belgian petition signed by 394 medical doctors, 1,340 medically trained health professionals, and 8,897 citizens: https://www.aier.org/article/open-letter-from-medical-doctors-and-health-professionals-to-all-belgian-authorities-and-all-belgian-media/ .

    All over the world people are waking up to the reality of this media pandemic.

    http://www.orwellianireland.com



  • Registered Users Posts: 17,947 ✭✭✭✭Dohnjoe


    brianhere wrote: »
    Its from the Belgian petition signed by 394 medical doctors, 1,340 medically trained health professionals, and 8,897 citizens: https://www.aier.org/article/open-letter-from-medical-doctors-and-health-professionals-to-all-belgian-authorities-and-all-belgian-media/ .

    And the views of the other 35,000 doctors and physicians in Belgium?
    All over the world people are waking up to the reality of this media pandemic.

    Nope, it's a minority of people with a jumble of views ranging from disagreement to full-on 5G moonbats. A majority of the public in most countries support the measures.


  • Registered Users Posts: 594 ✭✭✭3xh


    Dohnjoe wrote: »
    And the views of the other 35,000 doctors and physicians in Belgium?

    Tbf, some of those are silenced through fear. Threat of side-lining. Reprimand. Career stunting punishment. Maybe a cutting off of funding for a lab/college, etc.

    You can be sure at least 1 of the 35,000 you mention wanted to sign that letter.


  • Registered Users Posts: 411 ✭✭brianhere


    Yes it takes massive courage in the modern age to stand up to the power of the state/media establishment. In Ireland Tracey O'Mahoney is now facing the inevitable legal inquiry, Dr Marcus de Brun the inevitable medical inquiry, Dr Martin Feeley they already got sacked only a few days after he questioned the narrative, and they got Professor Dolores Cahill sacked from her government and EU advisory roles etc etc.

    http://www.orwellianireland.com



  • Registered Users Posts: 17,947 ✭✭✭✭Dohnjoe


    3xh wrote: »
    Tbf, some of those are silenced through fear. Threat of side-lining. Reprimand. Career stunting punishment. Maybe a cutting off of funding for a lab/college, etc.

    Let me get this straight, you are actually suggesting that around 1% of the doctors in Belgium freely represent the view expressed above, but the other 99% are "silenced through fear"?

    Is that a fact or your opinion?


  • Registered Users Posts: 17,947 ✭✭✭✭Dohnjoe


    brianhere wrote: »
    Yes it takes massive courage in the modern age to stand up to the power of the state/media establishment.

    Lol, so in this invented fascist dystopia, what happens to Irish journalists and opposition members who question government decisions daily, are they sent to gulags? work camps? thrown off balconies?


  • Registered Users Posts: 411 ✭✭brianhere


    Dohnjoe:
    "Irish journalists and opposition members who question government decisions"

    What Irish journalists or opposition politicians have questioned the narrative here, who among them is saying what I and others are saying here? None obviously, and since there are well nigh a thousand of them why do you think they all speak with one voice on this? To say that is some accident is to defy statistics and the law of probabilty, that they value their careers might be closer to the truth.

    http://www.orwellianireland.com



  • Registered Users Posts: 17,947 ✭✭✭✭Dohnjoe


    brianhere wrote: »
    Dohnjoe:
    "Irish journalists and opposition members who question government decisions"

    What Irish journalists or opposition politicians have questioned the narrative here, who among them is saying what I and others are saying here?

    This stuff?

    • It's all part of a bible prophecy
    • Facemasks are "muzzles"
    • The pandemic is largely fake
    • Bill Gates has something evil planned
    • We're going to be secretly marked with something by our doctors
    • The UN is about to take over the world using this pandemic as a pretext
    • The government is up to something "nefarious" (but details are always light on this)
    • We live in a North Korean style state where people are terrified to speak out
    • Measures to deal with the virus will never be lifted
    • Plan to enslave the human race
    • Etc, etc


  • Registered Users Posts: 411 ✭✭brianhere


    I would just hope, and I think have a right to expect, that journalists and politicians would stand up for peoples right to travel around Ireland, to work, to meet friends in pubs and at home, and not be compelled to wear some article that restricts their breathing, etc. I don't think that is too much to expect, and the fact that they are so silent on this is indeed sinister.

    http://www.orwellianireland.com



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  • Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 2,896 ✭✭✭sabat


    Seriously dohnjoe, what point do you have to reach before you realise you're being scammed? The entire nature of reality is being altered in front of your eyes and you think anyone who questions it is mental. Society and the economy are being purposely collapsed-that is happening; how can you claim otherwise?
    I'm going to go out on a limb here and say certain groups and individuals have vastly overplayed their hands and we're going to see some of the most well known names in the country in handcuffs before Christmas. The army and gardaí and some senior politicians not involved are going to have to form some kind of emergency administration to reassert the primacy of the state before this descends into utter chaos.


This discussion has been closed.
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