Fancy v plain

Bass Reeves

I bought six Charley bullocks in late August last year. From memory they were about 410-420 kgs average. They cost on average Inc fees and transport home 780 euro.they were Feb/March 2018 cattle. I treated them much the same as the rest of my cattle but started them on meal 3kgs/head/day earlier than Friesians. They were on this about 80-90 days so they consumed about 250 kgs each. In reality they may have eaten more as towards the end they were the biggest mouth in the troughs. I carried them all to virtually 30 months.

Now on slaughtering they were FS 3- by 4 and FS3= by 2. Now I was disappointed by grading there was 2 O+, 2 R-, an R= and an U-.

They averaged 378kgs DW, depending on KO assuming an average of 53-54%they were about 700LW when slaughtered. That means 290kgs gain in about 350days average daily gain 0.83 kgs/day.

They averaged 1439 euro leaving a gross margin of 660 euro. They were housed in late October last year and we're turned out about the 21-25th of March approx.

I was disappointed with them the two O+'s they averaged 350 kgs and pulled the overall average down, the other's averaged 390DW. Considering that they were bought very competitively last year. They are showing on ICBF as out of Friesian cows but they were good stock.

I am not sure it would have paid to feed meal at a higher level at the expense of grass. Grass was tight in May this year with the drought. The two O+ has a white stripe from the top of the tail to have way up the ridge of there back like moiled cattle. If I paid 100/ head more the good would have been out of them

Anto_Meath

Yes Fr would have cost €100 less, probably would have made €150 less in the factory. But for the same investment you would have been able to buy and extra animal so overall you could on an overall gross margin you could €350 better off.

Bass Reeves

Anto_Meath wrote: »

Yes Fr would have cost €100 less, probably would have made €150 less in the factory. But for the same investment you would have been able to buy and extra animal so overall you could on an overall gross margin you could €350 better off.

If capital to invest is limited I think anyone should go down the calf or dairy weanling route. Mind you dairy weanlings are very expensive at present. Only value I see out there at present is Fr in the 330-360 kg weight category that cost 500-550 euro in the yard or those that are 400 kgs that come for 620-630 euro. I do not see my h value in other cattle. In Tuesday FI it say store's are running 120/head ahead of last year.

To put that into context on a 350 kg bullick That is 35c/kg you want next year over this year's prices. Now few AA or GE will reach that weight. What I am pointing out is only applicable to people who turn cattle once a year. Lads twisting more often have different pricing factors.

If your land is capable of an 8-9 month grazing season and you can make fairly decent silage buying animals that have potential to grow into money is the way to go. Only caveat is if you are stocked fairly hight like me you need to buy some cattle to off load early in the year. If that s FR he want to be hitting 450 kgs at present. I am struggling to pick these type of cattle up at present. Any I see will struggle to leave a margin over present prices of 350-450 euro so are only virtually break even IMO

minerleague

Albert Johnson wrote: »

Some lads have an infatuation with colours or quality and will buy what appeals to them at any price. It's hard to find any great value when your tied to certain stock which are usually in demand. I'd buy a few cattle for different men locally and it didn't matter if you brought good cattle for nothing if they didn't suit there taste's. It doesn't matter how efficiently you manage stock if there too dear from the start imo your on a hiding to nothing. Yes good management is important but there's a lot of skill in buying them right no matter what colour they are.

Does anyone think the skill of buying cattle is dying out? Father here grew up buying at fairs and then marts when they started and seemed to know every farm where cattle would thrive after buying. Nowadays it seems to me cattle make a set price per kg ( based mostly on breed) and has worsened since online buying has started.

Gman1987

Cavanjack wrote: »

Agree with what you say. Only point I’d make is that I find with good quality cattle you should get a superior thrive. .

Its not always the case - 7th May I bought a 505kg HE bullock and a 605kg BB bullock. Grass only and killed them both on the 28/08 and the HE bullock was only 20.4kg lighter deadweight. The HE bullock left a lot more money.

charolais0153

Gman1987 wrote: »

Its not always the case - 7th May I bought a 505kg HE bullock and a 605kg BB bullock. Grass only and killed them both on the 28/08 and the HE bullock was only 20.4kg lighter deadweight. The HE bullock left a lot more money.

Blues are poor growth rates, try a growth charolais, nothing like them

Cavanjack

charolais0153 wrote: »

Blues are poor growth rates, try a growth charolais, nothing like them

Yeah depends in what they are like when you buy them Too. There is a big difference buying them hot in the spring or buying them hungry.

Limestone Cowboy

I wouldn't pay much heed to weight, I have often bought those ones that are steaming in the mart and they would do no good for 12 months. A storey one a hundred kilos lighter would have them passed out the following summer. There's some amount of lads horsing meal into young suckle bred stock.

Bass Reeves

Limestone Cowboy wrote: »

I wouldn't pay much heed to weight, I have often bought those ones that are steaming in the mart and they would do no good for 12 months. A storey one a hundred kilos lighter would have them passed out the following summer. There's some amount of lads horsing meal into young suckle bred stock.

It a real factor in Friesian's, you will buy an awful lot of them that are small weights that will thrive on better land. Mind you a Friesian and meal do not agree

patsy_mccabe

Bass Reeves wrote: »

It a real factor in Friesian's, you will buy an awful lot of them that are small weights that will thrive on better land. Mind you a Friesian and meal do not agree

How do you mean exactly?

Bass Reeves

patsy_mccabe wrote: »

How do you mean exactly?

Pumping ration into them is a way to lose money.

patsy_mccabe

Bass Reeves wrote: »

Pumping ration into them is a way to lose money.

Even for a month before killing?

Bass Reeves

patsy_mccabe wrote: »

Even for a month before killing?

No it pays to feed to get fat cover and it may pay to finish fully grown cattle inside. What is very marginal is feeding growing friesians ration. I have fed them 3 kgs for 8-10 weeks to get fat cover on them outside. But lads bucketing in to them or adlibing them are on a hiding to nothing. Teagasc finally copped on last year and started to advise putting Friesians back to grass for third summer rather than trying to winter finish

Bass Reeves

Bass Reeves wrote: »

No it pays to feed to get fat cover and it may pay to finish fully grown cattle inside. What is very marginal is feeding growing friesians ration. I have fed them 3 kgs for 8-10 weeks to get fat cover on them outside. But lads bucketing in to them or adlibing them are on a hiding to nothing. Teagasc finally copped on last year and started to advise putting Friesians back to grass for third summer rather than trying to winter finish

What about grass quality this time of the year.

If you have good silage would you be better off feeding them indoors with the silage and the 3 kg from late September on?

Limestone Cowboy

I weighed the year and a half replacement heifers today, a right good lim heifer I bought as a 350kg weanling this time last year for 850 that was well done was 550kg. Another hungry charolais heifer I bought in April at 280kg for 830 was 530kg. Have seen it several times with the well done weanlings and I still get sucked in to buying them. Had a lim heifer of my own that was a handy middling enough looking weanling 560kg and the pick of the bunch aswell. It's a false economy buying the stuffed ones unless you are going to stay stuffing them.

Bass Reeves

Limestone Cowboy wrote: »

I weighed the year and a half replacement heifers today, a right good lim heifer I bought as a 350kg weanling this time last year for 850 that was well done was 550kg. Another hungry charolais heifer I bought in April at 280kg for 830 was 530kg. Have seen it several times with the well done weanlings and I still get sucked in to buying them. Had a lim heifer of my own that was a handy middling enough looking weanling 560kg and the pick of the bunch aswell. It's a false economy buying the stuffed ones unless you are going to stay stuffing them.

I bought some Friesians two weeks ago, Amy time I look at them they are grazing. Today was the first day I saw them lying down for a while. O think it called compensatory growth

kk.man

minerleague wrote: »

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Does anyone think the skill of buying cattle is dying out? Father here grew up buying at fairs and then marts when they started and seemed to know every farm where cattle would thrive after buying. Nowadays it seems to me cattle make a set price per kg ( based mostly on breed) and has worsened since online buying has started.

Yes the skill set is dying out. But it can be done.

minerleague

kk.man wrote: »

Yes the skill set is dying out. But it can be done.

Often wonder in years to come with all the genetic info being gathered someone with cattle for sale will upload tag no. and some computer will decide value and no mart at all

CloughCasey1

minerleague wrote: »

Often wonder in years to come with all the genetic info being gathered someone with cattle for sale will upload tag no. and some computer will decide value and no mart at all

An ounce of breeding is worth a tonne of feeding. But the poor animal might have seen more bedtimes than breakfasts and all the genetics in the world won't solve that.

funkey_monkey

Would you consider taking in some drop calves (if you have the time to manage them)?
We would take in a batch of even sized heifer calves and rear them up. Anything that looks decent gets AI'ed and sold as springing. Anything that doesn't goes to mart.
You end up with usually some nice quiet stock that are used to handling and you get a few possibilities at the end of the day. If you were so inclined you could calf them and sell with calf at foot.
It will take a few years to get the cycle going though.

davidk1394

When I was finishing bulls it didn't really bother me what type of animal I bought. I tried Charollais, jersey, friesan, AA, herefords. The one thing I will say is a Jersey or Friesan will eat every bit as much as a charollais. I had the same amount of money out of Jersey as I had out of the charollais. This was going back a few years when there was money in bulls.