Champions Cup 2020/2021 General Thread

Burkie1203

New format. Confused as


https://twitter.com/ChampionsCup/status/1301128628504276992?s=19

thomond2006

Once we get the season played I can get over any hangups I have about the format.

pjdarcy

It's as confusing as the UEFA Nations League, luckily it's only for one season. Video explanation here

Squidgy Black

pjdarcy wrote: »

It's as confusing as the UEFA Nations League, luckily it's only for one season. Video explanation here

Wouldn't be entirely sure about that, especially if the South African super rugby teams so end up joining the Pro12/14/16 or whatever number it'll be on.

pjdarcy

Squidgy Black wrote: »

Wouldn't be entirely sure about that, especially if the South African super rugby teams so end up joining the Pro12/14/16 or whatever number it'll be on.

A European Cup with South African teams included? It'll be just like the Eurovision

PTH2009

I'm highly confused ted

Ah sure look at least its something to look forward to for the winter months

Could we not just have a 1 leg QF

Good chance for a lot of teams of winning the challenge cup from this

lawrencesummers

The 2 leg QF looks a good idea on paper, but in reality it could lead to a huge amount of cynical time wasting and defensive tactics for the away team in both legs.

One issue is the current lack of Universal exemption for sports people across the jurisdictions Involved and the possibility of localised lockdowns affecting fixtures, but I’m sure the organisers are well aware and have planned accordingly.

AbusesToilets

lawrencesummers wrote: »

The 2 leg QF looks a good idea on paper, but in reality it could lead to a huge amount of cynical time wasting and defensive tactics for the away team in both legs.

One issue is the current lack of Universal exemption for sports people across the jurisdictions Involved and the possibility of localised lockdowns affecting fixtures, but I’m sure the organisers are well aware and have planned accordingly.

Have they said how it's going to work, Away tries or anything like that?

pjdarcy

AbusesToilets wrote: »

Have they said how it's going to work, Away tries or anything like that?

If it's a draw at the end of the second leg of the quarter final, extra time will be played. If it's still a draw after extra time the winner will be determined as follows:

a. the club that has scored the most tries over the two legs

b. if equal, a place kick competition

The Lost Sheep

AbusesToilets wrote: »

Have they said how it's going to work, Away tries or anything like that?

extra time and if remains level at end of extra time team with most tries qualifies and if thats equal there will be a place kicking contest

yerrahbah

Champions cup Draw is on today

https://www.epcrugby.com/2020/10/27/all-you-need-to-know-about-the-heineken-champions-cup-pool-stage-draw-and-the-european-rugby-challenge-cup/

Qualified teams:

Tier 1: Leinster Rugby, Ulster Rugby, Bordeaux-Bègles, Lyon, Exeter Chiefs, Wasps

Tier 2: Edinburgh Rugby, Munster Rugby, Racing 92, RC Toulon, Bristol Bears, Bath Rugby,

Tier 3: Scarlets, Connacht Rugby, La Rochelle, ASM Clermont Auvergne, Sale Sharks, Harlequins

Tier 4: Glasgow Warriors, Dragons, Toulouse, Montpellier, Gloucester Rugby, Northampton Saints



Two groups of 12 with each group containing 3 teams from each tier (One from Pro 14, one from Gallagher Prem and one from Top 14)

4 teams qualify from each group

In the groups Tier 1 teams will play Tier 4 teams, Tier 2 teams will play Tier 3 teams

Each team will have 4 group games, two home, two away

Leinster are in Tier 1, so they will play Toulouse or Montpellier AND Gloucester Rugby or Northampton Saints,

You don't play teams from your own domestic league


From a Munster POV, we are in Tier 2, so we are looking to draw the weaker of the Tier 1 teams, the stronger of the Tier 4 teams, The Weaker Tier 2 and Tier 3 teams, but looking for a strong Tier 3 team from from the Pro14

IMO the best case scenario for Munster

Ulster
Bordeaux
Wasps
Munster
Toulon
Bath
Connacht
La Rochelle
Quins
Dragons
Toulouse
Gloucester

thomond2006

First world problem alert but the draw is a lot less exciting when you realise it's highly unlikely that travel to away games will be possible.

Cookiemunster

thomond2006 wrote: »

First world problem alert but the draw is a lot less exciting when you realise it's highly unlikely that travel to away games will be possible.

Nor is travel to home games likely

yerrahbah

thomond2006 wrote: »

First world problem alert but the draw is a lot less exciting when you realise it's highly unlikely that travel to away games will be possible.

A trip to Clermont would have been nice

Buer

yerrahbah wrote: »

IMO the best case scenario for Munster

Ulster
Bordeaux
Wasps
Munster
Toulon
Bath
Connacht
La Rochelle
Quins
Dragons
Toulouse
Gloucester

Best case scenario is to have the strongest possible Pro14 teams in your pool. Munster won't have to play them and they will take points from others.

Boscoirl

i am dizzy from trying to work that out

edit: I understood domestic league as the provinces first, but when you read it as ProXX it makes sense

sydthebeat

i think this compeition will be a clusterfcuk of walk overs and different "bubble" and testing standards causing pre-game issues.

and that doesn't at all take the lack of meritocracy and convolutedness of the whole arrangement into account.

The competition will really only start at semi final level (home and away legs of knock out games is stupid in the extreme)

yerrahbah

Buer wrote: »

Best case scenario is to have the strongest possible Pro14 teams in your pool. Munster won't have to play them and they will take points from others.

Id rather have Ulster than Leinster as the Tier 1 team in my (Munsters) group

More of a chance of Ulster dropping points vs the Tier 4 teams and that increases the chances of Munster going through at Ulsters expense

siltirocker

Racing 92, RC Toulon, Bristol Bears, Bath Rugby.

Can't see Connacht winning any of those potential games.

Buer

yerrahbah wrote: »

Id rather have Ulster than Leinster as the Tier 1 team in my (Munsters) group

More of a chance of Ulster dropping points vs the Tier 4 teams and that increases the chances of Munster going through at Ulsters expense

I was more thinking Connacht over Scarlets and Dragons over Glasgow.

yerrahbah

Buer wrote: »

I was more thinking Connacht over Scarlets and Dragons over Glasgow.

Fair enough,

I guess Connacht (the Cardiff game aside) have started the season well and not many teams will relish going to the sportsground on a wet November evening


Not much between Dragons and Glasgow for me, Glasgow aren't the team they used to be and the Dragons are putting together a decent side

Digifriendly

yerrahbah wrote: »

Not much between Dragons and Glasgow for me, Glasgow aren't the team they used to be and the Dragons are putting together a decent side

I did think that about Dragons but after their heavy defeats to Leinster and Ulster I am having second thoughts.

thomond2006

Munster drew Clermont and Harlequins according to them?

https://www.munsterrugby.ie/2020/10/28/munster-to-face-clermont-harlequins-in-champions-cup/#post

Dave_The_Sheep

POOL A (with opponents in brackets)
Bordeaux-Bègles (Dragons, Northampton Saints)
Leinster Rugby (Montpellier, Northampton Saints)
Wasps (Dragons, Montpellier)
Bath Rugby (La Rochelle, Scarlets)
Edinburgh Rugby (La Rochelle, Sale Sharks)
RC Toulon (Sale Sharks, Scarlets)
La Rochelle (Bath Rugby, Edinburgh Rugby)
Sale Sharks (Edinburgh Rugby, RC Toulon)
Scarlets (Bath Rugby, RC Toulon)
Dragons (Bordeaux-Bègles, Wasps)
Montpellier (Leinster Rugby, Wasps)
Northampton Saints (Bordeaux-Bègles, Leinster Rugby)

POOL B (with opponents in brackets)
Exeter Chiefs (Glasgow Warriors, Toulouse)
Lyon (Glasgow Warriors, Gloucester Rugby)
Ulster Rugby (Gloucester Rugby, Toulouse)
Bristol Bears (ASM Clermont Auvergne, Connacht Rugby)
Munster Rugby (ASM Clermont Auvergne, Harlequins)
Racing 92 (Connacht Rugby, Harlequins)
ASM Clermont Auvergne (Bristol Bears, Munster Rugby)
Connacht Rugby (Bristol Bears, Racing 92)
Harlequins (Munster Rugby, Racing 92)
Glasgow Warriors (Exeter Chiefs, Lyon)
Gloucester Rugby (Lyon, Ulster)
Toulouse (Exeter Chiefs, Ulster Rugby)

guapos

https://www.epcrugby.com/2020/10/28/heineken-champions-cup-pool-draw-maps-out-first-steps-on-road-to-marseille-2021/

Full draw here

thomond2006

guapos wrote: »

https://www.epcrugby.com/2020/10/28/heineken-champions-cup-pool-draw-maps-out-first-steps-on-road-to-marseille-2021/

Full draw here

Not televised. Very fishy. Obviously rigged.

Do you play the team in brackets twice?

yerrahbah

Deleted User wrote: »

Do you play the team in brackets twice?

Yup, home and away

The Lost Sheep

Deleted User wrote: »

Do you play the team in brackets twice?

Yes. everyone plays 4 games.

Boscoirl

the games look fairly balanced in each group, cant really pick a team that has gotten an "easy ride"

WhoamI2022

Leinster are ok. I think Montpellier had to sell off loads of squad after they got caught breaking salary cap? or am I wrong? Northampton took a nose dive after the Leinster games last season. Don't expect much them to beat Leinster home/away.

Ulster should beat Glou, maybe at home they can win v Toulouse.

Munster should beat Clermont at home, probably lose away. I would expect them to beat Quins home & away

Connacht just have nightmare draw, Bristol Bears are some outfit and Racing not too bad either. Pat Lam coming back is a bit of a story

Burkie1203

WhoamI2022 wrote: »

Leinster are ok. I think Montpellier had to sell off loads of squad after they got caught breaking salary cap? or am I wrong? Northampton took a nose dive after the Leinster games last season. Don't expect much them to beat Leinster home/away.

Ulster should beat Glou, maybe at home they can win v Toulouse.

Munster should beat Clermont at home, probably lose away. I would expect them to beat Quins home & away

Connacht just have nightmare draw, Bristol Bears are some outfit and Racing not too bad either. Pat Lam coming back is a bit of a story

Radradra v Aki

twinytwo

Boscoirl wrote: »

the games look fairly balanced in each group, cant really pick a team that has gotten an "easy ride"

Leinster got a fairly cushy number as did racing, connacht got boned.

The pools are so imbalanced it's hilarious.

sydthebeat

twinytwo wrote: »

Leinster got a fairly cushy number as did racing, connacht got boned.

The pools are so imbalanced it's hilarious.

Connacht went from not being part of the competition to being tier 3.... So saying they were "boned" is a bit disingenuous.
They were always going to be a 'make up the numbers' team in order to allow the big French dogs in.

Podge_irl

twinytwo wrote: »

Leinster got a fairly cushy number as did racing, connacht got boned.

The pools are so imbalanced it's hilarious.

Connacht are a tier 4 team, of course their draw is harder.

WhoamI2022

twinytwo wrote: »

Leinster got a fairly cushy number as did racing, connacht got boned.

The pools are so imbalanced it's hilarious.

Question to Connacht
Would they prefer to play in top competition and have 4 really hard games
Or
Play in the second tier with 4 easier games?

I think they will pick option 1 all the time

sydthebeat

Podge_irl wrote: »

Connacht are a tier 4 team, of course their draw is harder.

Tier 3

Podge_irl

sydthebeat wrote: »

Tier 3

Ah indeed. How did they go from basically not in the comp to tier 3? There was some nonsense like they took the top 4 from each conference but then did a joint table?

sydthebeat

Podge_irl wrote: »

Ah indeed. How did they go from basically not in the comp to tier 3? There was some nonsense like they took the top 4 from each conference but then did a joint table?

If you stop at "nonsense" it's easier to understand

Squidgy Black

Podge_irl wrote: »

Ah indeed. How did they go from basically not in the comp to tier 3? There was some nonsense like they took the top 4 from each conference but then did a joint table?

They did it off league point totals before lockdown, tier 1&2 were the finalists of last year's final and the semi final losers, and then it was points totals for the next two tiers

Podge_irl

sydthebeat wrote: »

If you stop at "nonsense" it's easier to understand

It was nonsense though. Connacht qualified from 4th in their league, but they did a joint table and put them in tier 3. Whereas following that logic through, Treviso should have qualified ahead of Dragons. Connacht certainly not been screwed by the whole thing anyway.

Jump_In_Jack

Essentially qualification and seeding were treated separately.

The new ERCC format meant that 8 teams were to qualify from each of the three leagues this season instead of 7.
Qualification from the Pro14 for the ERCC was decided by being one of the top 4 European teams in each conference (i.e. ignoring the Cheetahs so Dragons were 5th in conference but 4th for qualification).

Thereafter to organise the 8 qualified teams into seedings, they said winner of Pro14 final is seed 1, runner-up is seed 2, and the other 6 teams are ranked by league points and other criteria where tied on league points.

I feel bad for Benetton, they were unlucky to be in the opposite conference to Cheetahs, I think they were better than Dragons and they beat dragons by 12 on the one occasion they met last season.
It was a bad system to take a 5th place team with fewer points than the 5th and 6th placed teams in the other conference with higher points without at least a playoff match as in previous years.
With a pandemic going on this was an unfortunate side-effect of having to reduce matches, so no play-off was played, but in the absence of having a playoff match I think they should have used the match from the league as the decider.

As rightly pointed out Connacht benefitted from being moved from tier 4 up to tier 3 according to the seeding rules, whereas Dragons benefitted from being a top 4 European team in their conference by the qualification rules.

Jump_In_Jack

sydthebeat wrote: »

Connacht went from not being part of the competition to being tier 3.... So saying they were "boned" is a bit disingenuous.
They were always going to be a 'make up the numbers' team in order to allow the big French dogs in.

Why do you say Connacht went from not being part of the competition?
Were there supposed to be only 6 teams from Pro14 before deciding to go with 8?
By the old rules Connacht would have qualified in 7th place, and they were in it last season, so I don't understand your point that Connacht went from "not being part of the competition...".

sydthebeat

Jump_In_Jack wrote: »

Why do you say Connacht went from not being part of the competition?
Were there supposed to be only 6 teams from Pro14 before deciding to go with 8?
By the old rules Connacht would have qualified in 7th place, and they were in it last season, so I don't understand your point that Connacht went from "not being part of the competition...".

Nope

4 place in each conference, omitting the SAs, would have had to play off for the 7th spot... as ospreys and scarlets had to do at the end of the 18/19 season... which ospreys won.

connacht were in the 19/20 HC by virtue of them finishing 3rd in conference A

Jump_In_Jack

sydthebeat wrote: »

Nope

4 place in each conference, omitting the SAs, would have had to play off for the 7th spot... as ospreys and scarlets had to do at the end of the 18/19 season... which ospreys won.

connacht were in the 19/20 HC by virtue of them finishing 3rd in conference A

OK, but Connacht were never "not part of the competition", as they were in contention for a playoff at least, and due to not having playoffs this season they woud have been automatically qualified in 7th place by league points.
That's what was confusing.
I assumed there must have been a discussion to cut the number of teams that I missed.
But it didn't happen anyway so it doesn't matter.

Burkie1203

I see there is new player registration rules for this competition

Squidgy Black

Burkie1203 wrote: »

I see there is new player registration rules for this competition

Unlimited number of non-european players in the match day squad.

sydthebeat

Jump_In_Jack wrote: »

OK, but Connacht were never "not part of the competition", as they were in contention for a playoff at least, and due to not having playoffs this season they woud have been automatically qualified in 7th place by league points.
That's what was confusing.
I assumed there must have been a discussion to cut the number of teams that I missed.
But it didn't happen anyway so it doesn't matter.

that's quite a leap of logic... im sure dragons would have looked at legal action should that have come to pass

Eod100

Fixtures out this afternoon.

https://twitter.com/ChampionsCup/status/1327250837916225536

OldRio

Latest news

https://twitter.com/Rob_OHalloran/status/1327286495825195010?s=20

The Lost Sheep

Andy Brace has seen his appointment for next weekend’s Heineken Champions Cup switched due to the online abuse hes received after Autumn Nations Cup

He will now referee the game between Wasps and Montpellier instead of Toulouse v Exeter.