Log cabin connected to main house

j14

We are currently looking to build a log cabin in our back garden. 1 bed cabin 25 sqm.
It will be used as full time residential for my mother. We are based in Dublin.
The plan is to buy an off the shelf cabin and connect it to the back of the main house via a porch (door opens from kitchen into a porch area which is connected to the cabin).
The back garden is large enough to accommodate this as we would still have about 80sqm of garden left after erecting the cabin.
I am sure we will need planning permission as the main house has already been extended by 50% of the original floor space back in 2005

How likely are we to get something like this through planning?

Del2005

An off the shelf cabin won't meet building regulations. To meet building regulations there is no cheap option, you can meet building regulations with a cabin but you will not save any money vs a conventional build.

j14

Del2005 wrote: »

An off the shelf cabin won't meet building regulations. To meet building regulations there is no cheap option, you can meet building regulations with a cabin but you will not save any money vs a conventional build.

Thanks for the reply. We were quoted €2,000 per sqm (block work only, no windows, doors, kitchen or bathroom) for a conventional block build so that's why we were looking at a cabin.

Can I ask what building regulations an off the shelf cabin does not comply with?

General question, if they don't comply then how are companies getting away with selling them?

Gumbo

j14 wrote: »

Can I ask what building regulations an off the shelf cabin does not comply with?

All,of them, pretty much, without serious modifications, at which point you’ll be at the same cost of standard building.

j14 wrote: »

General question, if they don't comply then how are companies getting away with selling them?

They are being sold as sheds/garden rooms etc
Nothing more, nothing less

Lumen

Gumbo wrote: »

They are being sold as sheds/garden rooms etc
Nothing more, nothing less

They aren't, they are commonly being advertised with words including "bedrooms", "homes", "houses", and then buried in the small print are clauses like "The Customer’ should check before ordering that the building will be suitable for its intended purpose."

From what I can see this market is completely unregulated and suppliers are both encouraging and facilitating widespread abuse of planning and building regulations.

Gumbo

Lumen wrote: »

They aren't, they are commonly being advertised with words including "bedrooms", "homes", "houses", and then buried in the small print are clauses like "The Customer’ should check before ordering that the building will be suitable for its intended purpose."

From what I can see this market is completely unregulated and suppliers are both encouraging and facilitating widespread abuse of planning and building regulations.

Once installed you are left with a shed. Full stop.
In most cases a shed bigger than the exemptions allow.

It’s the home owners fault for not checking what they are buying.
Would you buy a car based on what a salesman told you, no.
Would you buy a house based on info the Sellers EA stated, no.

Same principle applies. Home owner needs to know what they are buying.
The shed companies cover themselves in the small print.

Gerry Hatrick

We have one at the back of our house OP. We first bought it as an office schoolwork room for the kids but it's now converted into a bedroom/hangout area for my eldest daughter and her dog sleeps in there with her. They are fantastic. We didn't bother with planning permission etc.. as our neighbours are all sound. One actually liked it so much they bought one from the same company and converted it into a home gym after checking ours out. Good thing about them is any grief and they can be disassembled and sold on without the hassle that would result with a conventional block extension.

Lumen

Gumbo wrote: »

Once installed you are left with a shed. Full stop.
In most cases a shed bigger than the exemptions allow.

It’s the home owners fault for not checking what they are buying.
Would you buy a car based on what a salesman told you, no.
Would you buy a house based on info the Sellers EA stated, no.

Same principle applies. Home owner needs to know what they are buying.
The shed companies cover themselves in the small print.

The comparison with cars does not help your argument. Has anyone ever bought a new car that didn't comply with current safety and roadworthiness regulations? No. Because the State has decided that it is better to force all manufacturers to meet the regulations.

if BMW started selling cars which burst into flames there would be hell to pay.

The State has decided for whatever reason to exempt both itself and large parts of the construction industry from any responsibility for consumer protection. If you are sold a duff new build or a non-compliant "log house" you have to pursue the "manufacturer" through civil action, the State will do nothing.

Gumbo

Lumen wrote: »

The comparison with cars does not help your argument. Has anyone ever bought a new car that didn't comply with current safety and roadworthiness regulations? No. Because the State has decided that it is better to force all manufacturers to meet the regulations.

if BMW started selling cars which burst into flames there would be hell to pay.

The State has decided for whatever reason to exempt both itself and large parts of the construction industry from any responsibility for consumer protection. If you are sold a duff new build or a non-compliant "log house" you have to pursue the "manufacturer" through civil action, the State will do nothing.

You said yourself. The shed companies state on their websites they are sheds and the onus is on the home owner to ensure its use is legal.

Same way you can buy an eScooter.

Lumen

Gumbo wrote: »

You said yourself. The shed companies state on their websites they are sheds and the onus is on the home owner to ensure its use is legal.

Same way you can buy an eScooter.

Sure, I guess I just disagreed with your use of the word "fault".

It is a reasonable expectation for a consumer that a product should not be sold in a blatantly misleading way, and that the State will take reasonable steps to stop it.

Most people don't understand the value of building regulations and think they're some sort of unnecessary bureaucracy, as evidenced by poster on this thread using a shed as a bedroom.

Which is fine until people start developing chronic respiratory disease from black mould, or burn to death in a fire.

Lumen

Lumen wrote: »

Sure, I guess I just disagreed with your use of the word "fault".

It is a reasonable expectation for a consumer that a product should not be sold in a blatantly misleading way, and that the State will take reasonable steps to stop it.

Most people don't understand the value of building regulations and think they're some sort of unnecessary bureaucracy, as evidenced by poster on this thread using a shed as a bedroom.

Which is fine until people start developing chronic respiratory disease from black mould, or burn to death in a fire.

Why then are people legally and legitimately allowed live in caravans and mobile homes then? I know about the regulations around wood cabins, I've looked into this before as an option but didn't go ahead. In the area I live in there are a few mobile home parks (Clogherhead and Bettystown) and many of them have mobile homes and wooden cabins that are permanent residences with permanent occupants ? Some are beautiful and immaculately kept and have had extensions put on, gardens planted etc.

Can anyone answer why a mobile home is good enough for a permanent home and a eco log cabin with insulation ,damp proofing and a hardcore base with drainage isnt?

Lumen

Deleted User wrote: »

Why then are people legally and legitimately allowed live in caravans and mobile homes then? I know about the regulations around wood cabins, I've looked into this before as an option but didn't go ahead. In the area I live in there are a few mobile home parks (Clogherhead and Bettystown) and many of them have mobile homes and wooden cabins that are permanent residences with permanent occupants ? Some are beautiful and immaculately kept and have had extensions put on, gardens planted etc.

Can anyone answer why a mobile home is good enough for a permanent home and a eco log cabin with insulation ,damp proofing and a hardcore base with drainage isnt?

All caravan parks are closed in the winter AFAIK.

Lumen

Lumen wrote: »

All caravan parks are closed in the winter AFAIK.

No there are permanent dwellers in Bettystown, just beside The Village Hotel . Owners subject to annual lease , some lovely wooden homes there alongside mobile homes .
Caravans are used as permanent dwellings , why not eco log cabins ?

Graham

Have you checked the planning status/conditions for those cabins/mobile homes?

Lumen

Deleted User wrote: »

No there are permanent dwellers in Bettystown, just beside The Village Hotel . Owners subject to annual lease , some lovely wooden homes there alongside mobile homes .

This one?

https://www.lynchscaravanpark.com/contact

The 2020 season starts on Wednesday 1st April and ends on Wednesday 30th September. Occupation of mobile homes is strictly prohibited, except during this period.

Dempo1

Are you able to connect the cabin concept yo your house, like an extension as such. I did this in 2005 but live in rural location so had the room. My approach was to have a cabin style look but put a solid foundation down, box steel frame with the structure constructed with timber frame, marine ply, insulation and exterior cladded with treated timber, internally plastered and I went for solid teak double glazed windows. The entire structure 23 ft long, 18ft wide but this was out of choice, could have been bigger. Also open plane with exposed apex roof. Total cost €12k and its now my main room. Even if you can't connect directly, I do believe the same construction method alot cheaper than a stand alone cabin. I'll try attach photos.

BryanF

Dempo1 wrote: »

Are you able to connect the cabin concept yo your house, like an extension as such. I did this in 2005 but live in rural location so had the room. My approach was to have a cabin style look but put a solid foundation down, box steel frame with the structure constructed with timber frame, marine ply, insulation and exterior cladded with treated timber, internally plastered and I went for solid teak double glazed windows. The entire structure 23 ft long, 18ft wide but this was out of choice, could have been bigger. Also open plane with exposed apex roof. Total cost €12k and its now my main room. Even if you can't connect directly, I do believe the same construction method alot cheaper than a stand alone cabin. I'll try attach photos.

That’s a timber frame Extension. What the op is referring to is a Glorified garden shed

Your figures are 15 years out of date.

Beltby

Deleted User wrote: »

No there are permanent dwellers in Bettystown, just beside The Village Hotel . Owners subject to annual lease , some lovely wooden homes there alongside mobile homes .
Caravans are used as permanent dwellings , why not eco log cabins ?

The caravan isn't made of wooden logs for a start.

Lumen

Lumen wrote: »

This one?

https://www.lynchscaravanpark.com/contact

No its not Lynches. Its Eastham Park in Bettystown, google them. I almost bought one of the some years ago as a permanent home. Wooden construction, decking all around it, wired, plumbed etc. They are lovely and many people live there permanently. You read this in the reviews about them. All legitimate, run by a company that manages them. This is the one I was interested in: https://www.property.ie/property-for-sale/The-Log-Cabin-113-Eastham-Park-Eastham-Road-Bettystown-Co-Meath/1886977/

I am just wondering anyway how you can be allowed to live in a caravan or a mobile home (the travelling community) yet you cannot get permission to live in an eco wooden cabin?

Dempo1

BryanF wrote: »

That’s a timber frame Extension. What the op is referring to is a Glorified garden shed

Your figures are 15 years out of date.

It is an extensiion but my point being the op could use the same principal, just for the record. My figures are not out of date, I'm about to start a stand alone concept in my garden, I'll grant you the windows have doubled in price but pretty much most other materials near enough similar prices. Ultimately a log cabin is great but horrendously expensive, just trying to offer alternative build type.

Beltby

Beltby wrote: »

The caravan isn't made of wooden logs for a start.

but surely a caravan is more of a fire hazard than a cabin? They would burn far quicker and be harder to get out of. There was a family of travellers wiped out in Navan about 20 years ago , burnt to death in their caravan, then the 10 travellers who perished in Carrickmines a few years ago........https://www.irishtimes.com/news/crime-and-law/carrickmines-fire-family-takes-legal-action-over-fatal-blaze-1.3470303

I have yet to hear of something like this associated with a log cabin.

sydthebeat

caravans are not an acceptable mode of permanent residence?? they do not comply with regulations for housing.
who is suggesting they are?

Lissoy

[Deleted User] wrote: »

No its not Lynches. Its Eastham Park in Bettystown, google them. I almost bought one of the some years ago as a permanent home. Wooden construction, decking all around it, wired, plumbed etc. They are lovely and many people live there permanently. You read this in the reviews about them. All legitimate, run by a company that manages them. This is the one I was interested in: https://www.property.ie/property-for-sale/The-Log-Cabin-113-Eastham-Park-Eastham-Road-Bettystown-Co-Meath/1886977/

I am just wondering anyway how you can be allowed to live in a caravan or a mobile home (the travelling community) yet you cannot get permission to live in an eco wooden cabin?

The same company (McDonagh's) also operate a mobile home park closer to Bettystown village near Tesco. It has a couple of hundred mobile homes and most people live there permanently all year round.

Is there a loophole for having a caravan or mobile home in your garden due to their "mobile" nature?

Gumbo

Lissoy wrote: »

Is there a loophole for having a caravan or mobile home in your garden due to their "mobile" nature?

No, no loophole.

Gumbo

Dempo1 wrote: »

Are you able to connect the cabin concept yo your house, like an extension as such. I did this in 2005 but live in rural location so had the room. My approach was to have a cabin style look but put a solid foundation down, box steel frame with the structure constructed with timber frame, marine ply, insulation and exterior cladded with treated timber, internally plastered and I went for solid teak double glazed windows. The entire structure 23 ft long, 18ft wide but this was out of choice, could have been bigger. Also open plane with exposed apex roof. Total cost €12k and its now my main room. Even if you can't connect directly, I do believe the same construction method alot cheaper than a stand alone cabin. I'll try attach photos.

What you built was a timber frame extension.
To do that now, you need to comply with the current regulations around timber frame construction, maybe IS444 and in particular, Part L regulations for the extension itself.

BryanF

Dempo1 wrote: »

It is an extensiion but my point being the op could use the same principal, just for the record. My figures are not out of date, I'm about to start a stand alone concept in my garden, I'll grant you the windows have doubled in price but pretty much most other materials near enough similar prices. Ultimately a log cabin is great but horrendously expensive, just trying to offer alternative build type.

So Just for the record, you built a timber frame extension, not a ‘log cabin’. Now your planning on building a ‘concept’ in your garden, and you can confirm that to build an Extension to current regs can be built for the money you list above, except for the windows?

I’m out.

Lissoy

Lissoy wrote: »

The same company (McDonagh's) also operate a mobile home park closer to Bettystown village near Tesco. It has a couple of hundred mobile homes and most people live there permanently all year round.

Is there a loophole for having a caravan or mobile home in your garden due to their "mobile" nature?

yes I would love to know this too. Or are you ok to live in a wooden cabin as long as it is in a caravan park like above??

sydthebeat

sydthebeat wrote: »

caravans are not an acceptable mode of permanent residence?? they do not comply with regulations for housing.
who is suggesting they are?

Nobody is suggesting they are. What I am trying to get to grips with is that they are ok for the travelling community to live in for years on end, and other people too, nobody turns a blind eye with compliance. Yet anytime log cabins are even mentioned here planning and regulations seem to be a huge obstacle and are mentioned and generally shut down the conversation.

I am genuinely wondering is it ok for people to live in these wooden cabins within a caravan park, a few hundred people do close to where I live in Bettystown.....https://www.myhome.ie/residential/brochure/the-log-cabin-113-eastham-park-bettystown-bettystown-meath/4278654........ yet not in your garden? And why is it ok to live in a caravan as hundreds in this country do for years on end yet you cannot live in a log cabin?

sydthebeat

Deleted User wrote: »

Nobody is suggesting they are. What I am trying to get to grips with is that they are ok for the travelling community to live in for years on end, and other people too, nobody turns a blind eye with compliance.

theyre not ok for the travelling community to live in?? who says they are?

the travelling community CHOOSE to live in them and argue travelling tradition... but they are in no way acceptable.

whats the other option?? confiscate the caravans and leave them homeless?

sydthebeat

sydthebeat wrote: »

theyre not ok for the travelling community to live in?? who says they are?

the travelling community CHOOSE to live in them and argue travelling tradition... but they are in no way acceptable.

whats the other option?? confiscate the caravans and leave them homeless?

there is really no need to be so sharp and sarcastic ...... I never mentioned leaving them homeless? I am asking genuine questions. I didnt know they are NOT ok for the travelling community to live in, I assumed they have some kind of amnesty or there was a clause somewhere for them. I am still waiting to hear from anyone who can answer why it is ok to live in wooden cabins in caravan sites as permanent residents? Yet not in your garden? Thanks.

sydthebeat

[Deleted User] wrote: »

there is really no need to be so sharp and sarcastic ...... I never mentioned leaving them homeless? I am asking genuine questions. I didnt know they are NOT ok for the travelling community to live in, I assumed they have some kind of amnesty or there was a clause somewhere for them. I am still waiting to hear from anyone who can answer why it is ok to live in wooden cabins in caravan sites as permanent residents? Yet not in your garden? Thanks.

I'm not being sharp or sarcastic.... But it's frustrating to keep repeating this stuff over and over.

They don't comply with building regulations as permanent houses.

The log cabins don't, caravans don't, trailer parks don't.

Not everyone in the country is 100% compliant with the law, so it's not surprising at all that there are people who either knowingly or unknowingly breaking the law.