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Learning How to Shoot

  • 23-08-2020 9:11pm
    #1
    Registered Users Posts: 6,182 ✭✭✭ Feisar


    Talking specifically about rifle shooting.

    In any pursuit I can think of one goes to a trainer/coach to learn. With ourselves here in this country its B.R.A.S.S. and off you go. Not sure where I'm going with this thread to be honest, I've been shooting forever however it has always been informal. Although at times taken very seriously. I've had an epiphany though, no point in getting frustrated if I'm not shooting 1 inch groups at 300 if I haven't built up to that. Silly to think it'd happen, for example I wouldn't get annoyed if I couldn't deadlift 180 if I hadn't trained up to it progressively, just as an example. But if I shoot a group not up to scratch I'm stumped. I can tell you how to shoot and I think I've followed the fundamentals however??? Practice more I suppose however practicing without knowing what to practice on won't yield results. I read a piece on archery years ago, this lad was practicing in any free time he had and couldn't understand why he wasn't improving. In reality he wasn't training, just repeating the same bad habits over and over.

    Again not really sure where I'm going with this, suppose looking for any aha! moments.

    First they came for the socialists...



Comments

  • Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 1,306 ✭✭✭ bobbyy gee


    Join the army


  • Registered Users Posts: 6,182 ✭✭✭ Feisar


    bobbyy gee wrote: »
    Join the army

    I had an Captain in the FCA as it was called at the time stop me from using the quick sling setup.

    First they came for the socialists...



  • Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 27,534 Mod ✭✭✭✭ Cass


    Don't do it on your own.

    You'll never see your own mistakes which leads to denial in the form of "it must be the gun".

    Forum Charter - Useful Information - RFDs - Ranges by County - Hunting Laws/Important threads


    If you see a problem post use the report post function, "FLAG" & let a Moderator deal with it.


    Your Shooting Forum Moderators - Cass, Cookimonster, Vegeta, Sparks, It wasn't me!



  • Registered Users Posts: 4,772 ✭✭✭ meathstevie


    There’s plenty of literature on the principles of marksmanship out there you can read which will give you a good handle on the basics of proper shooting.

    In essence it’s all about a combination of hold and grip, trigger control, breathing, sight picture, stance and so on. Quite a good bit would have been written from a military and law enforcement perspective but the principles are equally applicable to civilian hunting and target shooting.

    If you read for example Jeff Cooper you can forget all about the colour code and readiness, nasty situations unless you’re hunting man eating lions should not feature in your shooting activities.


  • Registered Users Posts: 6,182 ✭✭✭ Feisar


    There’s plenty of literature on the principles of marksmanship out there you can read which will give you a good handle on the basics of proper shooting.

    In essence it’s all about a combination of hold and grip, trigger control, breathing, sight picture, stance and so on. Quite a good bit would have been written from a military and law enforcement perspective but the principles are equally applicable to civilian hunting and target shooting.

    If you read for example Jeff Cooper you can forget all about the colour code and readiness, nasty situations unless you’re hunting man eating lions should not feature in your shooting activities.

    As Cass said above though, it's the seeing of mistakes that's the hard part.

    Lions? It's the neighbors cat sh!tting in my garden that's the problem!

    First they came for the socialists...



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  • Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 27,534 Mod ✭✭✭✭ Cass


    You may have seen some of these before, but they might be helpful to revise.

    Checking equipment

    Bore Sighting

    Testing/grouping

    Box/Linear/Line testing

    Forum Charter - Useful Information - RFDs - Ranges by County - Hunting Laws/Important threads


    If you see a problem post use the report post function, "FLAG" & let a Moderator deal with it.


    Your Shooting Forum Moderators - Cass, Cookimonster, Vegeta, Sparks, It wasn't me!



  • Registered Users Posts: 6,182 ✭✭✭ Feisar


    Cass wrote: »
    You may have seen some of these before, but they might be helpful to revise.

    Thanks. Been shooting forever but going to get clinical about it now.

    First they came for the socialists...



  • Registered Users Posts: 429 ✭✭ badaj0z


    Feisar wrote: »
    Talking specifically about rifle shooting.

    In reality he wasn't training, just repeating the same bad habits over and over.

    .

    I see most of the potential new members as they arrive at our club range. Those interested in shotgun shooting get looked after by our "clay" coach. Likewise, those interested in pistol get looked after by our pistol coach. I look after those who have expressed an interest in Rifle or who are not sure what they might like. After a discussion and showing them the facilities, I sit them down behind a scoped rifle with a double sand bag rest. If they have not shot before, I show them what to do. If they have shot before, I ask them to take a few shots whilst I observe. The "errors" observed are often the same, faulty trigger technique, faulty hold technique or inconsistency. Once shown how to improve, the result is often rewarding.


  • Registered Users Posts: 4,772 ✭✭✭ meathstevie


    Feisar wrote: »
    As Cass said above though, it's the seeing of mistakes that's the hard part.

    Lions? It's the neighbors cat sh!tting in my garden that's the problem!

    Cass is making a very valid point. A little bit of skilled instruction can give you surprising results in very little time if it comes down to honing skills and correcting a few errors.

    In a past life I done a very thorough professional pistol shooting course. The first shoot we done was a minimal instruction shoot ( not much more than safe handling according to in house SOP’s ) on a torso sized target at 5 meters. All my 25 rounds hit the target but there was no real evidence of any sort of a group. The target looked like buckshot at 40 yards.

    At the end of the three weeks I was shooting saucer size groups 50 round drills at 20 meters and repeated that result at refresher shoots for five years.


  • Registered Users Posts: 6,182 ✭✭✭ Feisar


    Cass is making a very valid point. A little bit of skilled instruction can give you surprising results in very little time if it comes down to honing skills and correcting a few errors.

    In a past life I done a very thorough professional pistol shooting course. The first shoot we done was a minimal instruction shoot ( not much more than safe handling according to in house SOP’s ) on a torso sized target at 5 meters. All my 25 rounds hit the target but there was no real evidence of any sort of a group. The target looked like buckshot at 40 yards.

    At the end of the three weeks I was shooting saucer size groups 50 round drills at 20 meters and repeated that result at refresher shoots for five years.

    No doubt he is, however finding an instructor is the thing.

    First they came for the socialists...



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  • Registered Users Posts: 1,389 ✭✭✭ extremetaz


    Feisar wrote: »
    Thanks. Been shooting forever but going to get clinical about it now.

    If you want to get serious about your technique and really drill down on the finer points then, if you don't have one already, I'd recommend getting yourself a 22LR or a PCP air rifle.

    As Cass says above, seeing the mistakes is the hard part so getting someone who knows their stuff to watch on the range is a definite must, but there's a whole other side to things that are far more visible to you* and recoil can make it difficult to interpret them until you learn what they look like.

    *which isn't to say that a good coach won't pick up on them, but it can take a really good coach!


    Either of the above pretty much removes recoil from the equation and provides the best view of what you're doing during your shot, with observable results. They're also dirt cheap to run so you can fling a hundred rounds in a session without either breaking the bank or losing focus. Once you start getting to know what you need to work on, and what the mistakes look like, then you can start dry firing on whatever rifle you want to do the business with and move on handling the recoil on top of that from there.

    As for coaching, the best thing you can do is head to the range and talk to the better marksmen in whatever discipline it is that you're most keen on. Personally I'd advise spending a *lot* of time at short range with the smaller rifle so that you don't have ballistics or recoil to worry about. In my experience and weather permitting, your average CZ with half decent ammo (read: Eley, Lapua, SK, RWS.. not S&B, CCI, Winchester etc..) will one hole all day at 50m - so if it's calm and they're not staying well under an inch, chances are you've got work to do.

    When you're happy with your results there then switch to the bigger boomstick and take the time to apply what you've learned from the rimfire in the presence of the recoil; then move on to reaching out from there.

    In the future then when you find things going awry, you'll be able to dryfire most of your way to a solution because you'll know what to look for.

    Be warned though - drilling down will expose you to what can turn into a very expensive appreciation for things like fine triggers, adjustable stocks (or worse yet 'custom'), expensive optics, and the inevitable allure of a custom rifle. So start saving some of that beer money. :D:p


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