Gotham Knights/Court of Owls (WB Montreal)

Mr Crispy

So while the actual name has yet to be confirmed (I'll edit the thread title as needed :pac: - EDIT: actually, I can't do that it seems!), the long-rumoured/teased Court of Owls game from Warner Bros Montreal is set to be revealed over the next couple of days.

This week, a teaser website (r3dakt3d.com) appeared, and WB Montreal's Twitter account started putting out video clips showing brief glimpses of various iconography from the comics (including the Court of Owls logo), as well as giving clues to codes to enter on the teaser site. Now, while I couldn't be arsed myself, the people of reddit thankfully could! Dataminers (or whatever they're called) obtained all four codes in advance (761, 941, 364, 995), which when entered on the r3dakt3d site, reward you with pieces of what looks like an in-game map, as well as other tidbits and teases.



More importantly, the miners found that there'll be a trailer video on the site too, maybe after the fourth code can be entered tomorrow. The four codes combined also make up the UPC for the DC comic where Batgirl makes her debut, the cover of which was later revamped for a cover of the Gotham Knights series

https://twitter.com/ArkhamVideos/status/1295785417866960896?s=20

So Court of Owls it is then. More importantly, what will the game be like? As much as I enjoyed the Arkham games, I don't know if I have the appetite for more of the same. There are some interesting rumours regarding a nemesis system incorporating various factions in the game, including GCPD. After that, who knows? Hopefully it won't be just another bloated open-world game. The fact that rumours point towards different members of the Bat family being playable make me wonder if this will have co-op (although I'm wondering the same about the Suicide Squad game)? And will it be next-gen only, or will current consoles be able to get in on the action?

Anyway, DC Fandome is on over the weekend, with WB Montreal giving a "first look" at their new game on Saturday at 18:25. So if the trailer hasn't dropped by then, that's when we'll see it. There'll also be a developer Q&A, so we should know more Saturday evening.

J. Marston

Mentioned it in the other thread but a reworking of Death in the Family would be cool. Batman is killed and you play as either Batgirl and/or Robin trying to unravel the mystery of who did it. It would be a fresh direction to take. If you wanted to talk styles, maybe Batgirl could be the more methodical detective and Robin is out for blood as revenge.

We've had 4 or 5 games as Batman now, stay in the universe but switch it up.

Mr Crispy

J. Marston wrote: »

Mentioned it in the other thread but a reworking of Death in the Family would be cool. Batman is killed and you play as either Batgirl and/or Robin trying to unravel the mystery of who did it. It would be a fresh direction to take. If you wanted to talk styles, maybe Batgirl could be the more methodical detective and Robin is out for blood as revenge.

We've had 4 or 5 games as Batman now, stay in the universe but switch it up.

I'd be very happy with that. The whole ARG-lite thing they have going on this week lends itself to the theory that this will be more detective focused, but that's probably just wishful thinking. The Court of Owls being a secret society could also work well as the mystery to be solved, and being a different type of game would work in its favour if it's going to be released any time near Suicide Squad.

Zero-Cool

Aw give it to me now!! I'm hoping Suicide Squad game is a big next gen game while this one is cross gen in the hopes of getting it sooner. Might even have to reinstall one of the Arkham's again.

steve_r

J. Marston wrote: »

Mentioned it in the other thread but a reworking of Death in the Family would be cool. Batman is killed and you play as either Batgirl and/or Robin trying to unravel the mystery of who did it. It would be a fresh direction to take. If you wanted to talk styles, maybe Batgirl could be the more methodical detective and Robin is out for blood as revenge.

We've had 4 or 5 games as Batman now, stay in the universe but switch it up.

Yeah, really like that idea. Playing as Catwoman in AC was a good change of pace, but I found playing as Nightwing/Robin/Batgirl etc in some of the DLCs for AK felt just like playing the same game under a different skin, and with less powers.

I'd love a real focus on the detective aspects of it - even the simple addition of dialogue trees would add a different angle to the current approach, which can get very formulaic.

My wishlist would be a Witcher 3 style scenario where what you do has real consequences for the story i.e. you focus on one threat, and a different threat becomes the main challenge, villains teaming up depending on what you do

Retr0gamer

It will probably be a standard Arkham Combat open world game but maybe it could be something more and do more with the open world as people as saying. I heard Origins is a pretty good game other than the awful bugs that never got fixed, some would say better than Arkham City. Hopefully it's in good hands.

The Raging Bile Duct

Retr0gamer wrote: »

It will probably be a standard Arkham Combat open world game but maybe it could be something more and do more with the open world as people as saying. I heard Origins is a pretty good game other than the awful bugs that never got fixed, some would say better than Arkham City. Hopefully it's in good hands.

I played Origins about a year after it came on PS3 and I didn't experience any of the game breaking bugs that were mentioned when the game came out first. I definitely enjoyed it more than City and Knight.

Penn

Aside from the bugs (and I encountered plenty), Origins' main problem was some of the upgrades you get are overpowered making a lot of the game trivial. The map also felt large for the sake of it.

It did have some incredible boss fights though, and I loved this trailer for it.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=InUj9BT8KCc

Zero-Cool

Retr0gamer wrote: »

It will probably be a standard Arkham Combat open world game but maybe it could be something more and do more with the open world as people as saying. I heard Origins is a pretty good game other than the awful bugs that never got fixed, some would say better than Arkham City. Hopefully it's in good hands.

I just saw today, I have a PS Now shortcut on my XMB giving me another 7 day free trial, worth it to play Origins alone. That's the most tempting out the all the Arkham games at the moment.

Mr Crispy

Final code goes in, terrible teaser trailer comes out. Come back tomorrow, I guess!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_MppOXAYy7U

Mr Crispy

So someone thought they figured out the name of the game, and went to look for its website...

https://www.batmangothamknights.com/

:pac:

Zero-Cool

Batman Arkham collection is on sale in Argos for 25 euro. Includes asylum, city and Knight with all dlc included. Great price for anyone wanting to play/replay the series.

Pity Origins multiplayer is shut down, would like to give that another go.

ERG89

https://twitter.com/ArkhamVideos/status/1297156572699713536?s=19

If you are bored today these are the times.

Mr Crispy

You'd think both games would have to be quite different from each other, unless they're releasing a long time apart.

ERG89

Mr Crispy wrote: »

You'd think both games would have to be quite different from each other, unless they're releasing a long time apart.

I think Suicide Squad will be a next gen only multiplayer GaaS and Gotham Knights might be single player only where you swap between the Bat-family (maybe in a similar manner to GTA V) as I can see it launching on the current gen consoles as well.

Mr Crispy

ERG89 wrote: »

I think Suicide Squad will be a next gen only multiplayer GaaS and Gotham Knights might be single player only where you swap between the Bat-family (maybe in a similar manner to GTA V) as I can see it launching on the current gen consoles as well.

Yeah, I had similar thoughts myself. Not long to find out, I guess.

EoinMcLovin

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wDJWmSuDfXY

https://twitter.com/GothamKnights/status/1297225987633975296?s=19

J. Marston

EoinMcLovin wrote: »

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wDJWmSuDfXY

https://twitter.com/GothamKnights/status/1297225987633975296?s=19

J. Marston wrote: »

Mentioned it in the other thread but a reworking of Death in the Family would be cool. Batman is killed and you play as either Batgirl and/or Robin trying to unravel the mystery of who did it. It would be a fresh direction to take. If you wanted to talk styles, maybe Batgirl could be the more methodical detective and Robin is out for blood as revenge.

We've had 4 or 5 games as Batman now, stay in the universe but switch it up.

More or less what I wanted but the downside it's looks live service-y.

Arcadeheroes

That presentation build of the game looked pretty rough , I noticed alot of drop frames and clipping throughout the gameplay preview .

As for the game itself I liked the idea of playing as the bat-family with my friends but I can see this game getting alot of high 7s and low 8s when it releases in 2021.

Zero-Cool

You could def see our as pre alpha with the performance issues but looks like usual Arkham fun. The Rocksteady game definitely needs to be different to this.

Mr Crispy

WCCFTech are generally rubbish when used as a source, but they're saying this info is coming from the official fact sheet for the game (I can't verify on the official site as it's 403ing);

GAME OVERVIEW

Gotham Knights is a brand-new open world, third-person action RPG featuring the Batman Family as players step into the roles of Batgirl, Nightwing, Red Hood and Robin, a new guard of trained DC Super Heroes who must rise up as the protectors of Gotham City in the wake of Batman’s death. An expansive, criminal underworld has swept through the streets of Gotham, and it is now up to these new heroes to protect the city, bring hope to its citizens, discipline to its cops and fear to its criminals. Players must save Gotham from descent into chaos and reinvent themselves into their own version of the Dark Knight.

FEATURES

• Play as a New Guard of DC Super Heroes – Step into the roles of Batgirl, Nightwing, Red Hood and Robin and shape Gotham’s newest protector to create your own version of the Dark Knight.
• Action-Packed, Original Story Set in DC’s Batman Universe – With the Belfry as their base of operations, this new era of heroes will solve mysteries that connect the darkest chapters in Gotham’s history – from its soaring towers to its underground criminal network. Embark on rich storylines, including face-offs against some of the most infamous DC Super-Villains, such as Mr. Freeze, who is set on engulfing Gotham City in ice.
• Explore and Fight Crime in an Open-World Gotham City – Patrol the dark streets of five distinct boroughs in a dynamic, interactive Gotham using a variety of traversal abilities and heroic combat moves, as well as the iconic Batcycle. From street-level crimefighting to face-offs with iconic DC Super-Villains, save the city from descent into chaos.
• Unique Character Abilities and Customization – Each hero has unique abilities, gear, weapons and a customizable suit.
Batgirl wields her melee tonfa; Nightwing uses his signature dual Escrima Sticks; Red Hood has trained to reach peak human strength; and Robin is expertly skilled with his collapsible quarter staff.
• Team Up in Two-Player, Online Co-Op – Play Gotham Knights solo or team up with a friend and combine strengths to protect Gotham City in two-player, online co-op.

Retr0gamer

Mr Crispy wrote: »

You'd think both games would have to be quite different from each other, unless they're releasing a long time apart.

This is Warner brothers though that seems to have settled on the Arkham combat system as something to base every game around.

Zero-Cool

It actually looks like it's gonna compete more with the marvel Avengers game than a regular Arkham game. Not a big fan of the health bars and numbers popping out of enemies but looking at it as a game that has a story but also dynamic open world to team up and take down bad guys, sounds like a more live service game than solid single player. At least it looks more fun than what i played of the avengers but i think this is capped at 2 player. Interesting to see how it develops.

Edit: going from social media, people are NOT happy but then again when are they.

Mr Crispy

Zero-Cool wrote: »

It actually looks like it's gonna compete more with the marvel Avengers game than a regular Arkham game. Not a big fan of the health bars and numbers popping out of enemies but looking at it as a game that has a story but also dynamic open world to team up and take down bad guys, sounds like a more live service game than solid single player. At least it looks more fun than what i played of the avengers but i think this is capped at 2 player. Interesting to see how it develops.

Edit: going from social media, people are NOT happy but then again when are they.

Yeah. They're deliberately calling it an action RPG which would explain some of the visual cues you mention. The player bios on the official site are describing very different skill-sets too, so hopefully each character will play differently and not just be reskins of Bats himself.

Re: people not being happy, it seems a lot of folk on reddit wanted another Arkham sequel with Bats at the helm. But as Retro says, from what we've seen so far, it's very much cut from the same cloth. Plus, I'll eat a batarang sideways if Batman is really dead. I expect him to be playable at some point.

Oh, and the site confirms that this'll be on PS4, PS5, XB1, XBSX, and PC (as predicted by ERG89).

ERG89

I wasn't sure if the game running poorly at times was the DC Fandome stream which wasn't smooth.
I'm glad they are pushing on and acknowledging the end of Arkham Knight even if that didn't sound like Kevin Conroy. I know its just a trailer but I fear with a game of this type that Court of Owls have been added due to being new to these games rather than for the overall plot. My heart sank a bit when I seen the enemy levels and hit points appearing when you cause damage. I was a bit surprised when they said it was co-op as whoever was playing as Robin wasn't exactly testing the system.

Anything you think what the Suicide Squad game would look like made it sound very similar to what the Gotham Knights game was revealed to be. I'm kinda surprised about that.

EoinMcLovin

Looks like it's not set in the Arkhamverse

https://twitter.com/ComicBook/status/1297262640021020673?s=19

Mr Crispy

EoinMcLovin wrote: »

Looks like it's not set in the Arkhamverse

https://twitter.com/ComicBook/status/1297262640021020673?s=19

Good move, imo.

Varik

If all they're doing is bringing the stats of equipment, skills, enemies to the forefront then fine, but I don't want to be getting loot and picking up different versions of stuff. That might end up being alright in the avengers game but that's not coming from an existing franchise. Seemed that some resource was dropped from enemies in addition to XP.

Robin is definitely Tim, and they used a different Court of Owls rhyme.

EoinMcLovin

Varik wrote: »

Robin is definitely Tim, and they used a different Court of Owls rhyme.

Yep it's Tim.

Character descriptions from the main site



Red Hood
Jason Todd is an intense and volatile anti-hero. It all stems from dying a violent death and then being forcibly resurrected by one of Batman’s most dangerous foes. He has trouble keeping his temper in check, but he will not hesitate to step into the line of fire when a friend is threatened. Red Hood wants crime to pay because Gotham City is built on a foundation of corruption, and he’s been on the receiving end of it far too often.

Jason has trained to reach the peak of human strength, and he’s proficient in multiple combat techniques with all manner of weapons—both traditional and high-tech. After reconciling with the Batman Family, he has embraced Batman’s non-lethal combat methods.



Robin
Tim Drake may be the youngest of the Batman Family but he’s also the smartest and a master of deductive reasoning. Tim is a true believer in Batman’s mission and is motivated by the conviction that Gotham City needs a hero rather than by personal loss. Batman was a mentor of the highest caliber who personified the type of man Tim hopes to become.

An expert fighter armed with his collapsible quarterstaff and skilled in the art of stealth, Tim also possesses a background in combined psychological warfare and behavioral sciences, all of which sets the stage for him to accomplish any mission.



Batgirl
Few people can match Barbara Gordon in terms of raw willpower and determination. Barbara has always been a person of action. In her mind, backing down is never an option. Having one of Gotham City’s most well-known police commissioners as a father had a massive impact on her. Jim Gordon gave his life for Gotham, and now she wants to make sure it wasn’t in vain. After a face-off that put Barbara in a wheelchair, she became Oracle, a powerful information and communications expert. But her father’s death spurred her to train and recover from her wounds so that she could return to active duty as Batgirl.

Barbara is highly trained in a variety of fighting styles, such as kickboxing, capoeira, and jiu-jitsu. Her signature weapon is the tonfa. Barbara also displays great skill when it comes to hacking or coding in computers and technological systems to dig for information.


Nightwing
Dick Grayson is a natural leader, an optimist, and the most charismatic of the Batman Family. He grew up in an unorthodox but loving circus family, so he values close personal bonds. Dick believes that, for the fight to be worth it, there must be something real to fight for; and that something has always been other people. He was Batman’s first protégé before ecoming a hero in his own right.

Dick boasts mastery in acrobatics and is an expert at taking down enemies with his signature dual escrima sticks.

Zero-Cool

Batgirl all day for me. 4 great characters though and I'd happily use each of them.

Mr Crispy

In the gameplay trailer with the developer commentary, he mentions Robin teleporting using the Justice League satellite.... I wonder if this will be set in the same universe as Suicide Squad Kill the Justice League? Maybe that's how Batman's dead! :pac:

Sephiroth_dude

Looks a hell of a lot better than a certain Marvel game anyway .

Mr Crispy

Sephiroth_dude wrote: »

Looks a hell of a lot better than a certain Marvel game anyway .

Bit early to be dismissing Miles Morales! :pac:

Sephiroth_dude

Mr Crispy wrote: »

Bit early to be dismissing Miles Morales! :pac:

I meant the avengers :pac:

J. Marston

Batgirl is a bit too sexualised for my tastes.

Runs.

Mr Crispy

Sephiroth_dude wrote: »

I meant the avengers :pac:

I know. I was trying to be funny.

Of course what I'd love to see now is somebody do the X-Men justice, in pog game form.

Zero-Cool

Mr Crispy wrote: »

In the gameplay trailer with the developer commentary, he mentions Robin teleporting using the Justice League satellite.... I wonder if this will be set in the same universe as Suicide Squad Kill the Justice League? Maybe that's how Batman's dead! :pac:

The Suicide Squad game game is set in the arkham verse, 1-4 player co-op like avengers.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2EVFYstVuVk

Mr Crispy

Yeah, and it'll be 2022 at the earliest with an apparent emphasis on gun play.

Zero-Cool

I see the biggest compliant on reddit is that this seems to have lost the free flow combat and is more akin to regular rpg action which i think is a bit harsh. I went back to Arkham Knight and finished the nightwing, robin and catwoman dlc's. Was grand but didn't get much out of playing it again.

Suicide squad trailer gave me no desire to replay arkham games but The Batman movie trailer makes me seriously want to play through arkham origins again as it's set in year 2. Trailer looks bloody brilliant!

Potential-Monke

Like I said in the Suicide Squad game, this looks like it's geared towards co-op. I get there's a lot of characters, but I prefer controlling 1. Not sure what to make of this tbh, and there's probably a good explanation (not actual bullets?!), but Red Hood is shooting everyone. I'm not sure on this. Will need more.

J. Marston wrote: »

Batgirl is a bit too sexualised for my tastes.

Runs.

She has a Uni-Tit, so that's a step in the right direction?

Zero-Cool

Potential-Monke wrote: »

Like I said in the Suicide Squad game, this looks like it's geared towards co-op. I get there's a lot of characters, but I prefer controlling 1. Not sure what to make of this tbh, and there's probably a good explanation (not actual bullets?!), but Red Hood is shooting everyone. I'm not sure on this. Will need more.

In the character bio on the website, it says after Jason reconciled with the Bat family, he came around to their non-lethal attacks so I'm guessing rubber bullets.

Zero-Cool

So yeah, enemies drop loot that look like resources and Robin had a very different costume at one point so looking more like marvel avengers than i thought. The combat does look different than usual Arkham games. Still looks fun to me.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gfkKNekZkRM

Mr Crispy

Yeah, I'll see where they go with it.

One thing it has in its favour (imo) over the Avengers is that it's an open(ish) world, whereas the Marvel game seems very... "narrow"? I won't say linear because I don't know how story progression etc works. But all the levels seem to be in enclosed spaces or narrow arenas.

I know both approaches have their pros and cons, and I certainly don't want pointless busy work to make the open world seem full. But I don't want to feel corralled or fenced in in Gotham.

Of course, I could be totally wrong about Avengers' level design!

Penn

I'm skeptical.

Firstly, it's odd that both WB Montreal and Rocksteady would both go for 4-character, kinda single-player but geared more for co-op type of games, set in the Batman/DC universe.

Secondly, I think you lose a lot by shaping it so it can be played co-op or choose from different characters. Story has to change to suit that you might be playing any of the characters or more than one player, enemy patterns and areas have to suit more than one player with different styles (eg. Robin being better at stealth, Red Hood more combat-focused etc), and they mentioned how bosses level up with you (eg. Mr.Freeze could be Level 5 or 15 when you fight him) indicating that it'll be pretty open-world, bunch of missions you can do in any order.

Also have to say, Batgirl's VO was awful in the gameplay video.

I'm skeptical anyway. It's not the next Arkham game, nor is it based on them. It seems very much it's own thing and could go either way. Might be a fun playthrough though.

It'll be interesting to see how Rocksteady's gameplay is different.

nix

Was kinda hoping the next Batman game would be done more like Spiderman, storytelling between Bruce and Batman. In a gotham full of life, people actually walking the streets.. And not another eternal night setting in a city literally full of criminals and nothing else to constantly beat on very easily..

Its just more of the same and i got bored of that after the second game

Penn

I'm actually downloading Arkham Knight again. It's the only one I've only played through once and it's been that long that f*ck it, why not. Especially since neither new game is following on from it. Got the Season pass for all the DLC I never played too.

Penn

nix wrote: »

Was kinda hoping the next Batman game would be done more like Spiderman, storytelling between Bruce and Batman. In a gotham full of life, people actually walking the streets.. And not another eternal night setting in a city literally full of criminals and nothing else to constantly beat on very easily..

Its just more of the same and i got bored of that after the second game

Even if they wanted to go with the Bat-Family, they could have done a game where you control each at different points, or where their stories intertwine with each other as they try investigate whatever big event is happening in the city. See events from their different perspectives mixed with their own individual sections and storylines until it all comes together at the end. Then after the story you can free-roam or do challenges or smaller side-missions as any of them. You could still put loot stuff in it as you'll eventually be playing as all the characters anyway so even if you picked up a piece of Robin equipment as Nightwing, you could still use it for Robin later in the story.

The online co-op way of doing things, I just think you lose a lot from a single-player experience that the Arkham games were always brilliant at. The combat and stealth is fundamentally changed if it's just piles of goons with numbers and health bars because the game has to tailor to each character's playstyle, abilities, and possible co-op.

Zero-Cool

Penn wrote: »

I'm actually downloading Arkham Knight again. It's the only one I've only played through once and it's been that long that f*ck it, why not. Especially since neither new game is following on from it. Got the Season pass for all the DLC I never played too.

You'll basically get a great taste of Gotham Knights with Arkham Knights dlc, tons of stuff in that season pass.

I signed up for another free trial for ps now and starting Arkham Origins as that's the one i remember the least and closet to the The Batman film.

Varik

Might go back to Arkham Origins, the only thing I was missing for the platinum was the last few challenge rooms.

PS3 got stuck in a boot loop so I'd need to swap out the HDD and install fresh firmware and then pop old one back.

That or try PS now and see if saves work.

Zero-Cool

Varik wrote: »

Might go back to Arkham Origins, the only thing I was missing for the platinum was the last few challenge rooms.

PS3 got stuck in a boot loop so I'd need to swap out the HDD and install fresh firmware and then pop old one back.

That or try PS now and see if saves work.

You got the multiplayer trophies? Was that mode any good? I didn't give it much chance but would love if they reopened the servers for it.

Varik

Zero-Cool wrote: »

You got the multiplayer trophies? Was that mode any good? I didn't give it much chance but would love if they reopened the servers for it.

You'd have 5 minutes of a good game and then either half the team would be kicked or you wouldn't even get that as they'd get kicked when joining in at the start, and there was no refilling players or joining live games.

Even when the game was new the matchmaking would stick you in a 1 v 1 game where you'd just take turns as the hero whaling on each other until someone quit: normal game was 6 goons vs 2 heroes.

One of the trophies required a full lobby and it to stay that way for the full game which was next to impossible, and then you'd have something equally hard to do.

I got the trophies and never went back to it, and a working version in this new game would be great. I don't think I've ever played a more broken mp game.