General Premier League Thread 2020-21 - Mod Notes in 1st post. [Updated 17/12/20]

Leeds did the same to Gabby Agbonlahor a while ago, didn't see every journalist under the sun out trying to stop it then.

CSF

[Deleted User] wrote: »

If a pundit prefaced analysis of Villa wins with "but remember they shouldn't be in this division, they only stayed up because VAR got it wrong", some Villa fans might object. And they'd be entitled to, she's a pundit, she's not above challenge.

I mean a bunch of people have made that point. While it’s an over simplified view, it’s also one that is not without merit.

If Villa had lost that game to Sheff United (I don’t think though it’s as simple a case as if that goal is included in the first half that Sheff United necessarily win), I dont think Villa would have stayed up.

CSF

Grayditch wrote: »

I don't know how Leeds are supposed to NOT respond to that.

The same way every club up and down the country rarely respond to criticism or poor predictions in the media.

event

CSF wrote: »

Bielsa teams have a history of losing steam towards the end of the season as a result of their highly intense and draining style of play.

Personally I think they would have went up anyway, and that how well they’ve done since going up has illustrated that further, but I don’t think it’s a crazy viewpoint by any means.

Leeds did not run out of steam in 18/19 though. Thats a lazy accusation that people make vs Biesla teams at times

The point that pundit makes is fairly pathetic tbh.

8-10

event wrote: »

Leeds did not run out of steam in 18/19 though. Thats a lazy accusation that people make vs Biesla teams at times

The point that pundit makes is fairly pathetic tbh.

Garth Crooks talked on the BBC website a few weeks ago about Joel Matip's performance against Spurs. He didn't even play in the game.

And he's one of their top football pundits and regularly makes mad statements. Kenny Cunningham is another. Lazy analysis is rampant because of the amount of online content.

Probably should have a punditry thread to talk about this sort of stuff because this isn't a single incident it literally happens week in week out. You don't have to look too hard to understand why people want to up the criticisms in this instance.

y0ssar1an22

CSF wrote: »

The same way every club up and down the country rarely respond to criticism or poor predictions in the media.

thats the problem, clubs rarely do it but they still do it. the gender of the pundit is entirely irrelevant

CSF

y0ssar1an22 wrote: »

thats the problem, clubs rarely do it but they still do it. the gender of the pundit is entirely irrelevant

I don’t think the gender of the pundit is relevant. I just think that inciting pileons is in bad taste.

It’s one thing to make a tongue in cheek joke when the pundits all back a team to be relegated and they manage to overcome the odds, another thing entirely to be basically posting ‘look, social media, at how big an idiot this person is’ and expecting anything other than the usual knuckledraggers to go far with it. I think gender only really comes into it in so far as much of the abuse will end up focusing on that and Leeds are either aware of that or stupid.

Of course there are the Talksport types (and our Gabby is 100% one of them) who say certain controversial things BECAUSE they want headlines and negative reactions (because they generate clicks), but there is nothing to suggest that this one was anything other than this pundit having an opinion that we disagree with.

ERG89

Amazon must have the worst taste in pundits as Tim Sherwood was trending on Twitter and I couldn't help wonder why. Apparently he said Bissouma wasn't talented enough to wear red boots and the rise of muscular injuries are in player's head.

Honestly I rarely bother watching punditry these days as its always bad. BBC, BT, Sky & even Premier Sports are f**king dire. All they tend to do is talk and stir shìt.

rob316

Big Sam worried about the virus and calling for a break of the season. Really?

https://twitter.com/MatthewStanger/status/1343993163258671105?s=19

super_furry

For all the attractive attacking football and Bielsa love-in, Leeds and very much still Leeds.

Arghus

rob316 wrote: »

Big Sam worried about the virus and calling for a break of the season. Really?

https://twitter.com/MatthewStanger/status/1343993163258671105?s=19

I could see it happening to be honest.

It's a bit unrealistic to assume that football won't be, at the very least, highly disrupted in the weeks to come. I know there's huge scheduling issues as it is, but I wouldn't rule it out tbh.

Fitz*

rob316 wrote: »

Big Sam worried about the virus and calling for a break of the season. Really?

https://twitter.com/MatthewStanger/status/1343993163258671105?s=19

It's happening all over the league(s).

Troy Deeney was very vocal about not wanting football to return in the summer. Because Watford were in the relegation zone and wanted to save his own skin. Now that Watford are 2 points off an automatic spot in the Championship, he is questioning the idea of the a circuit breaker.

All over the media, and boards, there was an awful lot of talk of null & void last year saying that football needed to be stopped, leagues just cancelled and start from scratch etc. Big name pundits, Premier League club players and officials were very vocal on it. There is no talk of that this year whatsoever, because it doesn't suit the same clubs narrative. Arguably the league is in a worse position now, even with the mass testing because of outbreaks at clubs that they cannot contain.

SlickRic

Leeds shouldn't have tweeted anything. Just like they probably shouldn't have tweeted about Agbonlahor previously. That's a given I'd have thought.

My issue is that some people, many high profile enough on Twitter, are pushing the gender agenda. I saw one particular person saying the likes of Merson, Murphy et al are paid big bucks, spout nonsense and don't get the vitriol Karen Carney has.

That is just virtue-signalling, inaccurate, lazy fúcking horse****.

Those pundits are fúcking ridiculed mercilessly every week. Merse's previous addictions even get brought into it, but not a fúcking peep from the posse.

And the only reason this is a fúcking story is because she's a woman, and virtue signallers want to show how woke they are, so it's trending.

pjohnson

Fitz* wrote: »

It's happening all over the league(s).

Troy Deeney was very vocal about not wanting football to return in the summer. Because Watford were in the relegation zone and wanted to save his own skin. Now that Watford are 2 points off an automatic spot in the Championship, he is questioning the idea of the a circuit breaker.

All over the media, and boards, there was an awful lot of talk of null & void last year saying that football needed to be stopped, leagues just cancelled and start from scratch etc. Big name pundits, Premier League club players and officials were very vocal on it. There is no talk of that this year whatsoever, because it doesn't suit the same clubs narrative. Arguably the league is in a worse position now, even with the mass testing because of outbreaks at clubs that they cannot contain.

Iirc Deeney was vocal because his son was born prematurely and was on a ventilator.

Aside from a few trolls I dont think anyone had much issue with Deeney's stance. I assume his child is better now and off the ventilator so he wouldn't be quite as concerned.

I doubt Deeney planned and organised the premature birth in order to line up with the pandemic in order to try and suit Watfords relegation fight.

CSF

SlickRic wrote: »

Leeds shouldn't have tweeted anything. Just like they probably shouldn't have tweeted about Agbonlahor previously. That's a given I'd have thought.

My issue is that some people, many high profile enough on Twitter, are pushing the gender agenda. I saw one particular person saying the likes of Merson, Murphy et al are paid big bucks, spout nonsense and don't get the vitriol Karen Carney has.

That is just virtue-signalling, inaccurate, lazy fúcking horse****.

Those pundits are fúcking ridiculed mercilessly every week. Merse's previous addictions even get brought into it, but not a fúcking peep from the posse.

And the only reason this is a fúcking story is because she's a woman, and virtue signallers want to show how woke they are, so it's trending.

I really don’t think the average joe soap has seen Merson getting abuse about addiction. I know I haven’t.

If a football club official Twitter account took a pop at him, the chances I’d see it are probably higher though, and I think your notion that people would be ok with it because he’s a man are completely off the mark and agenda driven.

DeanAustin

jayo26 wrote: »

There is no logic to it? Leeds got up because they deserved it and won championship. Another example of someone on tv to make up the numbers instead of contributing a meaningful point of view.

No one is saying they didn't deserve it at all. But there is logic in her point.

As I understand it, and I haven't researched it too extensively, Bielsa teams have a habit of running out of steam coming into the end of the season. It certainly happened in 18/19 when Leeds lost 5 of their last 8 including 3 or their last 4. Her opinion is a valid one to hold and that's her job. She expressed it a bit clumsily but, whether you agree with her opinion or not, there is a logic there.

She certainly doesn't deserve to be abused for it by idiots on social media. That has nowt to do with her gender, I'd say the same for a bloke.

TheadoreT

They think they're doing her a favour defending her too but it's not something she or anyone would want highlighting more than necessary. If the woke brigade didnt make a big deal of it would be forgotten as soon as the next pundit says something stupid, which is never far away. Now it's become a national debate and shes forced to see it everywhere.

Theres a point in being so woke you lose sight of the actual person involved and their best interests and it has the reverse effect of what you intended.


Like heres an example of Gary Neville saying something stupid. Everyone laughed at him. He laughed at himself. Went semi viral, had abuse from usual trolls. Everyone moved on next day and forgot it.

https://t.co/VXAsfqofTp

CSF

TheadoreT wrote: »

They think they're doing her a favour defending her too but it's not something she or anyone would want highlighting more than necessary. If the woke brigade didnt make a big deal of it would be forgotten as soon as the next pundit says something stupid, which is never far away. Now it's become a national debate and shes forced to see it everywhere.

Theres a point in being so woke you lose sight of the actual person involved and their best interests and it has the reverse effect of what you intended.


Like heres an example of Gary Neville saying something stupid. Everyone laughed at him. He laughed at himself. Went semi viral, had abuse from usual trolls. Everyone moved on next day and forgot it.

https://t.co/VXAsfqofTp

The anti-woke brigade are probably louder, more rampant and rabid than the woke brigade though.

I know that I for one have seen a lot more social media interactions of people who are horrified over this at a PC world (no pun intended) gone mad, than I have people horrified by the Leeds tweet.

fyfe79

TheadoreT wrote: »

They think they're doing her a favour defending her too but it's not something she or anyone would want highlighting more than necessary. If the woke brigade didnt make a big deal of it would be forgotten as soon as the next pundit says something stupid, which is never far away. Now it's become a national debate and shes forced to see it everywhere.

Theres a point in being so woke you lose sight of the actual person involved and their best interests and it has the reverse effect of what you intended.


Like heres an example of Gary Neville saying something stupid. Everyone laughed at him. He laughed at himself. Went semi viral, had abuse from usual trolls. Everyone moved on next day and forgot it.

https://t.co/VXAsfqofTp

Yep. If people were really concerned about gender equality, they'd let her take abuse (justified or not) for whatever viewpoint she has, just like every other pundit in that business leaves themselves open for. By defending her, they're essentially suggesting she's too thin-skinned and maybe too thick to defend herself. It really is comical, this stuff.

Btw, that is a funny clip! Light-hearted, the way it should be.

thebaz

Every pundit , male or female - are open to criticism , part of the job - playing the gender card when that criticism comes is PC nonsense - plenty of male pundits have got plenty of stick , including losing ther job - Lots of other more serious issues to get in a twist about today.

CSF

fyfe79 wrote: »

Yep. If people were really concerned about gender equality, they'd let her take abuse (justified or not) for whatever viewpoint she has, just like every other pundit in that business leaves themselves open for. By defending her, they're essentially suggesting she's too thin-skinned and maybe too thick to defend herself. It really is comical, this stuff.

Btw, that is a funny clip! Light-hearted, the way it should be.

But nobody has mentioned gender equality here. From every post I’ve seen in this thread the fact that she’s a woman appears to be incidental.

The people who think that a football club Twitter account hanging someone out to dry relates to gender are the only ones discussing gender here.

CSF

thebaz wrote: »

Every pundit , male or female - are open to criticism , part of the job - playing the gender card when that criticism comes is PC nonsense - plenty of male pundits have got plenty of stick , including losing ther job - Lots of other more serious issues to get in a twist about today.

Nothing to do with people being open to criticism. I think Steve McManaman is one of the worst commentators around. Deserves so much criticism.

Still think a football club Twitter account setting millions of people to pile on him would be grossly inappropriate though.

cj maxx

DeanAustin wrote: »

No one is saying they didn't deserve it at all. But there is logic in her point.

As I understand it, and I haven't researched it too extensively, Bielsa teams have a habit of running out of steam coming into the end of the season. It certainly happened in 18/19 when Leeds lost 5 of their last 8 including 3 or their last 4. Her opinion is a valid one to hold and that's her job. She expressed it a bit clumsily but, whether you agree with her opinion or not, there is a logic there.

She certainly doesn't deserve to be abused for it by idiots on social media. That has nowt to do with her gender, I'd say the same for a bloke.

That puts a new light on it. She may have a point about how the break helped Leeds . More than other clubs

TheadoreT

CSF wrote: »

The anti-woke brigade are probably louder, more rampant and rabid than the woke brigade though.

I think anyone defining themselves as either have a pre conceived agenda, and the reality as with most things usually lies closer to the centre.

cj maxx

DeanAustin wrote: »

No one is saying they didn't deserve it at all. But there is logic in her point.

As I understand it, and I haven't researched it too extensively, Bielsa teams have a habit of running out of steam coming into the end of the season. It certainly happened in 18/19 when Leeds lost 5 of their last 8 including 3 or their last 4. Her opinion is a valid one to hold and that's her job. She expressed it a bit clumsily but, whether you agree with her opinion or not, there is a logic

That puts a new light on it. She may have a point about how the break helped Leeds . More than other clubs

CSF

TheadoreT wrote: »

I think anyone defining themselves as either have a pre conceived agenda, and the reality as with most things usually lies closer to the centre.

Quick read of this thread will show there are people lining up to make anti-woke gender rants despite nobody (that I saw at least) here making any reference to gender.

CSF

CSF wrote: »

Still think a football club Twitter account setting millions of people to pile on him would be grossly inappropriate though.

CSF wrote: »

The people who think that a football club Twitter account hanging someone out to dry relates to gender are the only ones discussing gender here.

She made the comment. And the club, or anyone, is entitled to challenge it, civilly. That's not "hanging out to dry" - it's not as if she was tricked into making it - and it's not "setting millions of people to pile on her"...it's "responding" and clubs should be entitled to do it and not be censored.

When a manager or owner questions a ref or an opponent, is that hanging out to dry and encouraging a pile on?

Vex Willems

CSF wrote: »

Nothing to do with people being open to criticism. I think Steve McManaman is one of the worst commentators around. Deserves so much criticism.

Still think a football club Twitter account setting millions of people to pile on him would be grossly inappropriate though.

Yeah.

ThunbergsAreGo

CSF wrote: »

Quick read of this thread will show there are people lining up to make anti-woke gender rants despite nobody (that I saw at least) here making any reference to gender.

This is an absolutely nothing issue in which IMO, noone has done anything wrong. It's just horrible "banter"

I am sure she doesnt care, more people know who she is now. But if you are a pundit you are fair game to be challenged.

CSF

[Deleted User] wrote: »

She made the comment. And the club, or anyone, is entitled to challenge it, civilly. That's not "hanging out to dry" - it's not as if she was tricked into making it - and it's not "setting millions of people to pile on her"...it's "responding" and clubs should be entitled to do it and not be censored.

When a manager or owner questions a ref or an opponent, is that hanging out to dry and encouraging a pile on?

It absolutely is hanging someone out to dry when you’ve 664k Twitter followers and know exactly how social media works.

Managers aren’t allowed question a ref for that very reason. Anonymous football fans on the internet are a horrible breed.