"Irish Grass Fed Beef" to be protected by EU

maestroamado

Am i right in assuming that there be restrictions put in place to limit the usr of fertilizer to achieve this status.
I think it be a very good idea if this be the case as better quality meat if feed more natural grassland.

Dinzee Conlee

I think it’s a load of bollox - grass fed beef isn’t actually grass fed, it’s ‘mostly’ grass fed...

We give out about the consumer being duped with situations where something is produced in a different country, packaged in Ireland and sold as Irish...
That’s bad...

But somehow it’s ok to do this grass fed beef craic, even though we know it’s not really true - but cos it suits us it’s grand...

Say my name

What happens if there's plantain or 14 upwards species in the mix of pasture.

Does it still qualify as grass fed if there's only a small % of grass?

I see our milk deliveries are still on two day collection. It'll stay that way as that milk is coming off grass and going for cheese. When farmers start to introduce silage the collections will go to three day as that milk wont be used for cheese so won't be going to that factory and doesn't need the strict criteria of being two day and grass fed for the rest of the products.

wrangler

Dinzee Conlee wrote: »

I think it’s a load of bollox - grass fed beef isn’t actually grass fed, it’s ‘mostly’ grass fed...

We give out about the consumer being duped with situations where something is produced in a different country, packaged in Ireland and sold as Irish...
That’s bad...

But somehow it’s ok to do this grass fed beef craic, even though we know it’s not really true - but cos it suits us it’s grand...

Agreed, it is a load of bollocks, if the animal thrives whatever it's fed the meat will be good
I'm sure that most people, like myself, would just like the taste and the price to be right. I've had 'organic meat' in places and it tastes like ****e and I've had beef in america that has been melt in the mouth type.
We have Beef plan selling meat now and most of their customers would be buying from their local butchers anyway so I feel they're shooting themselves in the foot.....again. We deal in two local butchers that buy their meat from factories and their meat is the best

Bass Reeves

Dinzee Conlee wrote: »

I think it’s a load of bollox - grass fed beef isn’t actually grass fed, it’s ‘mostly’ grass fed...

We give out about the consumer being duped with situations where something is produced in a different country, packaged in Ireland and sold as Irish...
That’s bad...

But somehow it’s ok to do this grass fed beef craic, even though we know it’s not really true - but cos it suits us it’s grand...

I have to disagree, Larry has a box at the bottom of his lairage form now that all farmers have to fill out, it asks are the cattle grass fed for the majority of the year. As well if you are ever on hold to an AIBP plant you hear the nice person telling you about our pasture fed beef. I do not tick the box, I will when I get paid for to tick the box.

Its very hard to finish beef on grass alone, protein is too high. However it is possible to finish with minimal rations. I can finish cattle with 150-200 kgs of ration. In the last 12 months of the finishing period its equivlent to 4% of there feed intake on a dry matter basis and less than 0.1% of intake on a fresh weight basis.

If they pay enough for winter finished on silage and ration in the last 12 month period ration would make up 12-15% of there intake on a dry matter basis and less than 5% on a fresh weight basis.

There is a massive difference in the product between that and adlib feeding of cattle to finish them where only straights and chopped straw is used.

Say my name wrote: »

What happens if there's plantain or 14 upwards species in the mix of pasture.

Does it still qualify as grass fed if there's only a small % of grass?

I see our milk deliveries are still on two day collection. It'll stay that way as that milk is coming off grass and going for cheese. When farmers start to introduce silage the collections will go to three day as that milk wont be used for cheese so won't be going to that factory and doesn't need the strict criteria of being two day and grass fed for the rest of the products.

It a pasture fed more than a grass fed designation

wrangler wrote: »

Agreed, it is a load of bollocks, if the animal thrives whatever it's fed the meat will be good
I'm sure that most people, like myself, would just like the taste and the price to be right. I've had 'organic meat' in places and it tastes like ****e and I've had beef in america that has been melt in the mouth type.
We have Beef plan selling meat now and most of their customers would be buying from their local butchers anyway so I feel they're shooting themselves in the foot.....again. We deal in two local butchers that buy their meat from factories and their meat is the best

Again you are waffling

wrangler

Bass Reeves wrote: »

I have to disagree, Larry has a box at the bottom of his lairage form now that all farmers have to fill out, it asks are the cattle grass fed for the majority of the year. As well if you are ever on hold to an AIBP plant you hear the nice person telling you about our pasture fed beef. I do not tick the box, I will when I get paid for to tick the box.

Its very hard to finish beef on grass alone, protein is too high. However it is possible to finish with minimal rations. I can finish cattle with 150-200 kgs of ration. In the last 12 months of the finishing period its equivlent to 4% of there feed intake on a dry matter basis and less than 0.1% of intake on a fresh weight basis.

If they pay enough for winter finished on silage and ration in the last 12 month period ration would make up 12-15% of there intake on a dry matter basis and less than 5% on a fresh weight basis.

There is a massive difference in the product between that and adlib feeding of cattle to finish them where only straights and chopped straw is used.







It a pasture fed more than a grass fed designation




Again you are waffling

Are you deliberately trolling.
You're great, claiming feeding minimal ration........ if it was only true,
Once farmers are allowed feed any ration they'll feed what they like, don't cod yourself that they'll abide by 300kg

Jjameson

wrangler wrote: »

Are you deliberately trolling.
You're great, claiming feeding minimal ration........ if it was only true,
Once farmers are allowed feed any ration they'll feed what they like, don't cod yourself that they'll abide by 300kg

The vast majority of the steer heifer and cow beef is produced with minimum meal. And it doesn’t look too arduous for those of us in grass based finishing systems to put it on paper for verification as it is truthful for a large proportion of Irish beef.


And there isn’t a great difference between minimum grass fed beef and completely grass fed but the difference in beef from 150 day ad lib (mostly imported gm maize meal rations) is easily recognisable, definitely inferior taste, inferior nutritionally and environmentally and at last bord bia are doing something useful to put in a few parameters to have some kind of consistency in the product under the label.

In my opinion the parameters are not far reaching enough. Only Irish grown feed stuffs should be allowed in the diet from perhaps 6 months age on.

Say my name

Bass Reeves wrote: »

It a pasture fed more than a grass fed designation

Not really though.
It's allowing 5 months on concrete in the year.

Panch18

But shur of courses the terms the beef plan want are loose and free

they are writing the terms to suit themselves - and its hard to get those continental breeds finished without a fair drop of meal don't ye know

Panch18

And @Bass Reeves

I don't know why you'd support Beef Plan on this - they are deliberatly excluding you (and many more of us) from being able to access this, if it somehow manages to get through, by limiting it to suckler cattle only

wrangler

Panch18 wrote: »

But shur of courses the terms the beef plan want are loose and free

they are writing the terms to suit themselves - and its hard to get those continental breeds finished without a fair drop of meal don't ye know

The bonus will be smaller,
The more loose and free it is,
That's the thing about niche products, it has to be high quality and exclusive.
A lot of Organic product has to go the conventional route at a conventional price, I can't see this being any different, organic would be a better product

Jjameson

Panch18 wrote: »

And @Bass Reeves

I don't know why you'd support Beef Plan on this - they are deliberatly excluding you (and many more of us) from being able to access this, if it somehow manages to get through, by limiting it to suckler cattle only

I don’t know where you and wrangler find this “beef plan “ stuff. Any link?
The term on the bord bia paper certainly suit you bass and myself perfectly.

Panch18

Jjameson wrote: »

I don’t know where you and wrangler find this “beef plan “ stuff. Any link?
The term on the bord bia paper certainly suit you bass and myself perfectly.

Apologies - the beef plan are submitting a seperate PGI to the grass feed beef 1, which would exclude nonsuckler animals

https://www.agriland.ie/farming-news/producer-group-submits-documents-to-department-for-natural-irish-beef-pgi/

Sorry i got them mixed up

wrangler

Jjameson wrote: »

I don’t know where you and wrangler find this “beef plan “ stuff. Any link?
The term on the bord bia paper certainly suit you bass and myself perfectly.

https://documentcloud.adobe.com/link/track?uri=urn%3Aaaid%3Ascds%3AUS%3A8bc28ab1-514d-4294-af24-6f64d4c01115&fbclid=IwAR2h-xcw4FEuQfGnLo80RgfSSr1Yd83O6vpTBi46EdssD9w2B7GFpyXhiNw#pageNum=2

If you go to GALWAY Beef plan on Facebook you'll see where they're trying to close all the factories........... funny carry on for an organisation that calls itself Beef Plan

Panch18

this is a link to the product spec that beef plan are looking for - if you can open it

Wrangler beat me to it - my link not working for some reason

https://documentcloud.adobe.com/link/track?uri=urn:aaid:scds:US:8bc28ab1-514d-4294-af24-6f64d4c01115&fbclid=IwAR0ihQvXaEkJyD5fx_zdEkNbfMLLbSL1959wD8ntkkjLn0liISVcSgHlamA#pageNum=1

Panch18

The attached clearly and unequivocally states that it’s for suckler farmers, that’s what the protests were all about

Sorry don’t know how to embed the picture

Jjameson

Some fair headbangers but the level of following and activity is very low.
I see nothing in my Facebook of any of them for a long time.
Algorithms or what I don’t know.

Panch18

Jjameson wrote: »

Some fair headbangers but the level of following and activity is very low.
I see nothing in my Facebook of any of them for a long time.
Algorithms or what I don’t know.

Ah they post some crap on some of the farm discussion groups on face pain as well

Bass Reeves

Panch18 wrote: »

Apologies - the beef plan are submitting a seperate PGI to the grass feed beef 1, which would exclude nonsuckler animals

https://www.agriland.ie/farming-news/producer-group-submits-documents-to-department-for-natural-irish-beef-pgi/

Sorry i got them mixed up

IFA is at it as well wanting suckler only and trying to get bull beef included and complaining about friesian cattle inclusion. However if the PGI for natural fed goes ahead it just another option. However it will struggle as there is no demand for the product which is heavy carcass and a lot of the cattle (CH, LM BL, SI etc) that will need age to finish on 750kgs during a winter finishing system. As well by excluding ''O'' grade cattle it will nearly force all these cattle to up to and beyond 36 months to finish. I would not worry about brain farts like that or IFA trying to push bulls inclusion.

Bass Reeves

Say my name wrote: »

Not really though.
It's allowing 5 months on concrete in the year.

With limits on ration if cattle are indoors lads will have to feed them half decent silage. Stores especially to qualify for this will need to be on silage alone. Lads will need to conserve there ration allociation for the last 6-8 weeks of the finishing period.

wrangler

Bass Reeves wrote: »

IFA is at it as well wanting suckler only and trying to get bull beef included and complaining about friesian cattle inclusion. However if the PGI for natural fed goes ahead it just another option. However it will struggle as there is no demand for the product which is heavy carcass and a lot of the cattle (CH, LM BL, SI etc) that will need age to finish on 750kgs during a winter finishing system. As well by excluding ''O'' grade cattle it will nearly force all these cattle to up to and beyond 36 months to finish. I would not worry about brain farts like that or IFA trying to push bulls inclusion.

More hurling on the ditch, what a surprise.
Like beef plan that thought they could they could criticise IFA now it turns out they can't even organise themselves.
Ireland is full of 'hurlers on the ditch :D:D:D:D:D:D

Say my name

Get a room!

Water John

Setting the criteria depends on whether they want a year round supply product not a seasonal one, the answer to which I'm presuming is yes. That means some supplement to the grass silage. It's critical that grass, (a broad term), constitutes most of the animal diet every day to slaughter.
What you allow and how you police it are details to be considered, including what is practicable. ATM you have to declare nitrogen used, can't see a major difference to showing feed purchased or homegrown.

Birdnuts

Water John wrote: »

Setting the criteria depends on whether they want a year round supply product not a seasonal one, the answer to which I'm presuming is yes. That means some supplement to the grass silage. It's critical that grass, (a broad term), constitutes most of the animal diet every day to slaughter.
What you allow and how you police it are details to be considered, including what is practicable. ATM you have to declare nitrogen used, can't see a major difference to showing feed purchased or homegrown.

As others have said on this thread - what we need is a label the encourages extensive beef production on natural, mixed species grassland. Only then will discerning consumers take such things seriously. Sadly Bord Bia has been failiing for many years in this area in terms of its role promoting all that is best in Irish farming.

greysides

MOD:
Wrangler and Bass Reeves take a 24 hours break from this thread.

Keep an eye on your PMs.

Jjameson

https://www.agriland.ie/farming-news/producer-group-submits-documents-to-department-for-natural-irish-beef-pgi/

Is this beef plans proposition? I do agree with the Irish grown feedstuffs element but are the leaving out dairy progeny?

Dairy progeny have docility in general that suckler cattle often don’t and this is reflected in the ph of the carcass after slaughter.

Water John

There are no grounds for leaving out dairy cow cross progeny. Historically they have been the foundation of out traditional beef industry. Much of the initial suckling herds were also established using Friesian cows to multiple suckle bought in calves. Beef suckler herds are a recent addition in Ireland.
The purpose of the designation sought is to protect a specific and traditional type of production. It is not about the protection of a specific type of farmer.