"Irish Grass Fed Beef" to be protected by EU

Muahahaha

Just saw on another thread that Ireland has made a submission to the EU to make "Irish Grass Fed Beef" a protected geographical term in the same way as champagne or the Waterford blaa have already been.

In it they are saying that the term it would exclude beef from dairy cows and bulls. This is the definition of what it would take to meet the criteria of Irish Grass Fed Beef

he submission notes that “Irish Grass Fed Beef” only includes cattle that: (a) derive at least 90% of their feed intake (as determined by the Grass Fed Beef Standard) from grass. This is primarily grazed grass, with winter feeding of conserved grass (silage and hay); and (b) spend a minimum of 220 days per year throughout their lifetime grazing pasture.


The document, submitted by the Department of Agriculture, Food and the Marine, notes that , selection criteria used will mean that only carcasses from certain higher-grade beef animals are eligible to be classified as “Irish Grass Fed Beef”.
These include:

• Steers and heifers aged up to 36 months with conformation better than O- and fat score between 2+ and 4+; and
• Beef cows of up to 120 months with conformation better than O+ and with fat score between 2+ and 5.

The application states that the minimum grazing period for “Irish Grass Fed Beef” is set at 220 days “to cater for producers that experience high rainfall, due to their geographic location”.

https://www.agriland.ie/farming-news/irish-grass-fed-beef-pgi-application-bulls-excluded-with-travel-limit-inserted/

Was wondering a couple of things- if you had two steaks with one from a dairy cow and the other from a cow raised specifically for beef how much of a taste difference could you expect? And does this happen in the food chain, i.e can a rib eye you buy in a supermarket be from a dairy cow? And with food traceability the consumer can find out the farm it came from but can they know if the animal was raised for beef or for dairy?

Also I know some farmers in Spain are taking dairy cows at the end of their milkable life and then raising them for beef. I believe it is considered a premium product, the marbling is almost yellow because of the age of the animal at slaughter, some six or seven years iirc. Are any farmers in Ireland using this technique or is it more a continental thing?

bilbot79

Absolute non farmer here but having had steaks in various countries including UK but nothing compares to a good Irish steak because our grass is superb. I would fully expect a steak of the rearing prescribed to taste better than an average one.

Buford T. Justice XIX

Muahahaha wrote: »

Just saw on another thread that Ireland has made a submission to the EU to make "Irish Grass Fed Beef" a protected geographical term in the same way as champagne or the Waterford blaa have already been.

In it they are saying that the term it would exclude beef from dairy cows and bulls. This is the definition of what it would take to meet the criteria of Irish Grass Fed Beef


https://www.agriland.ie/farming-news/irish-grass-fed-beef-pgi-application-bulls-excluded-with-travel-limit-inserted/

Was wondering a couple of things- if you had two steaks with one from a dairy cow and the other from a cow raised specifically for beef how much of a taste difference could you expect? And does this happen in the food chain, i.e can a rib eye you buy in a supermarket be from a dairy cow? And with food traceability the consumer can find out the farm it came from but can they know if the animal was raised for beef or for dairy?

Also I know some farmers in Spain are taking dairy cows at the end of their milkable life and then raising them for beef. I believe it is considered a premium product, the marbling is almost yellow because of the age of the animal at slaughter, some six or seven years iirc. Are any farmers in Ireland using this technique or is it more a continental thing?

I think you're mixing up terms here. Beef from cows, be that beef or dairy cows, predominately goes for mince and manufactured meals containing beef like you'd see in the frozen food sections of the supermarkets.

Retail cuts of beef are predominately from heifers, females under 30 month old and not having had a calf, here in Ireland. The male equivalent and the vast majority of the rest of the female equivalent would be exported. Certain retailers like Aldi and McDonalds require heifer beef under 30 months from the Angus breed, others retailers have similar for Hereford beef.

alps

It excludes all P grade beef. This is the most significant "rug pull" on dairy beef ever...

Half the beef produced in the country is dairy beef and half of that dairy beef is finished on the farm it was born on...

This is going to cause an extreme amount of discontent..

charolais0153

alps wrote: »

It excludes all P grade beef. This is the most significant "rug pull" on dairy beef ever...

Half the beef produced in the country is dairy beef and half of that dairy beef is finished on the farm it was born on...

This is going to cause an extreme amount of discontent..

Lim and bb off dairy herd are 99%likely to get o or better

alps

charolais0153 wrote: »

Lim and bb off dairy herd are 99%likely to get o or better

What about other breeds..HE, AA, SA, AU etc?

DBK1

alps wrote: »

What about other breeds..HE, AA, SA, AU etc?

You’d have to have very poor breeding in any of them breeds to have them P grading. The average run of them breeds and the LIM and BB dairy bred animals would be about 60% O grade, 30% R grade and at max 10% P. If there were more P’s than that I’d be seriously questioning the dairy farmer they came from and certainly wouldn’t be buying any more from him.

charolais0153

alps wrote: »

What about other breeds..HE, AA, SA, AU etc?

Supply what the market wants. Use bb and lim on plainer cows and traditional breeds on square cows. Won't have too many ps that way

Tonynewholland

Buford T. Justice XIX wrote: »

I think you're mixing up terms here. Beef from cows, be that beef or dairy cows, predominately goes for mince and manufactured meals containing beef like you'd see in the frozen food sections of the supermarkets.

Retail cuts of beef are predominately from heifers, females under 30 month old and not having had a calf, here in Ireland. The male equivalent and the vast majority of the rest of the female equivalent would be exported. Certain retailers like Aldi and McDonalds require heifer beef under 30 months from the Angus breed, others retailers have similar for Hereford beef.

Some restaurants on the continent who specialise in steaks do use fattened dairy cows for their steaks . They like to cook it on an open wood fire

Say my name

Tonynewholland wrote: »

Some restaurants on the continent who specialise in steaks do use fattened dairy cows for their steaks . They like to cook it on an open wood fire

Basque cull dairy cow steaks command a premium in Europe and London.

What's good for the goose is good for the gander I say. Register grass fed Irish dairy cow as a product and let the consumer decide based on taste and texture.

At the moment beef is beef and nobody has a clue.

Mooooo

Tbh unless there is a way in which some part of any extra margin is guaranteed back to the farmer I doubt it will be long surviving. No harm at all to try something but at the end of the day cost of living is always rising and we will be getting to a point where the next or early current generation won't be taking money from the job to keep farms going anymore, time or money or both won't be there to do it.

alps

charolais0153 wrote: »

Supply what the market wants. Use bb and lim on plainer cows and traditional breeds on square cows. Won't have too many ps that way

I would agree with you fully....but I'm not sure the market has the preferences you suggest....that lends partly to the P grades being ommited from this standard...

yosemitesam1

alps wrote: »

I would agree with you fully....but I'm not sure the market has the preferences you suggest....that lends partly to the P grades being ommited from this standard...

This is looking like another great example of how the agri industry tries to dumb down what actually makes a quality food product into a few boxes to be ticked with no respect towards taste, terroir etc, which will most likely end up as another stick to beat beef prices with

Grueller

This will end like most other things imho. The will be a market demand for a certain amount of this produce, there will be huge hoops of paperwork to get certified for it, it will become over subscribed and the majority of the qualified beef will become commodity beef the same as any other. It will then all end up priced the same to the farmer while the factories and retailers glean any financial benefit.

_Brian

Mooooo wrote: »

Tbh unless there is a way in which some part of any extra margin is guaranteed back to the farmer I doubt it will be long surviving. No harm at all to try something but at the end of the day cost of living is always rising and we will be getting to a point where the next or early current generation won't be taking money from the job to keep farms going anymore, time or money or both won't be there to do it.

Bingo !
Unless this means money in farmers posters it’s nothing more than a marketing aid for the processors.

Markcheese

How's it going to be defined and policed ?
Just exclude the feed lots ? That's easily done ...
Or x percentage of their lives outdoors ,
No more than x percentage of meal fed , ,
Be part of the current quality assurance scheme and then not meal finish ...?
The big Feed lots will be pushing that their "system" should be included as the animals only spend their last few months in the lot anyway ..

Markcheese

https://youtu.be/w7z_qeQRmKQ

Link to video on a taste taste between fattened retired dairy cow and wagyu beef ...

Dinzee Conlee

charolais0153 wrote: »

Supply what the market wants. Use bb and lim on plainer cows and traditional breeds on square cows. Won't have too many ps that way

Is this on dairy cows Charolais?

I have it in my head that BB and maybe Lim could be hard calved?
Why risk a good dairy cow with a hard calving when you could just as easy use AA and take a gamble on the calf price?

Maybe I have it wrong?

wrangler

Markcheese wrote: »

How's it going to be defined and policed ?
Just exclude the feed lots ? That's easily done ...
Or x percentage of their lives outdoors ,
No more than x percentage of meal fed , ,
Be part of the current quality assurance scheme and then not meal finish ...?
The big Feed lots will be pushing that their "system" should be included as the animals only spend their last few months in the lot anyway ..

And it'll be policed as strict as the organic scheme.
As far as I can see the crowd pushing for this think that you can can fatten cattle all year round the same as the summer, they have no idea what's involved and probably no experience either.
The way it's shaping up anyone doing intensive feeding wouldn't be bothered with being involved and they supply a huge percentage of the beef.

Buford T. Justice XIX

Dinzee Conlee wrote: »

Is this on dairy cows Charolais?

I have it in my head that BB and maybe Lim could be hard calved?
Why risk a good dairy cow with a hard calving when you could just as easy use AA and take a gamble on the calf price?

Maybe I have it wrong?

No, you're spot on.

And then add in the cost of an extra 5 or 6 days longer gestation before the cow starts milking and add another couple of days again before she goes back in calf and the cow can easily slip 2 weeks between one year and the next. And start the same cycle again the next lactation.

For me anyway, the continental beef bull used would want to be bringing in over 300+ euro extra over the friesian/AA calf for me to justify using one on my cows.

endainoz

Markcheese wrote: »

How's it going to be defined and policed ?
Just exclude the feed lots ? That's easily done ...
Or x percentage of their lives outdoors ,
No more than x percentage of meal fed , ,
Be part of the current quality assurance scheme and then not meal finish ...?
The big Feed lots will be pushing that their "system" should be included as the animals only spend their last few months in the lot anyway ..

I'd definitely exclude the feed lots out of it, I think silage still counts as grass fed so I wouldn't say the length of housing would have much to do with it? I could be wrong....

Regarding finishing, it could finally be the time for farmers to seriously look into red clover silage as a replacement for meal.

Dinzee Conlee

I am sure why - but I think this is not right...

I think grass fed beef should be that - 100% grass fed...

I feel this watered down initiative is only taking from people who do produce actual proper grass fed beef...

I know that would only be a very small niche of producers. I know to produce beef 100% on grass is difficult - but this is the reason we shouldn’t be confusing the customer with this ‘mostly grass fed, but not 100%’ malarky...
Maybe I just don’t see the benefit of this scheme...

Gawddawggonnit

Great idea.

It should be the showcase for the best of Irish beef. The quality of the beef shouldn’t be adulterated with inferior quality ie anything less than R and over 36mts should be excluded.

These ‘labels’ are there to promote and to a certain extent, increase the exclusivity of the product...in other words promote the best quality beef to come from Ireland. When did any of ye on here go to your butcher and ask for a steak from a 12yr old Pgrade Jersey cross...?

If the farmers that produce the best of beef are proud of their product and it’s provenance, then by all means show the pride and quality to the consumers by marketing this ‘pride’.

For the dairy farmers that think a weeks milk is more important than producing an animal that can achieve the quality of beef to attain the standard of PGI, then maybe they should go and develop a PGI for Irish kebab meat?

*All depends on the farmer getting the premium into their pockets!

DBK1

Gawddawggonnit wrote: »

Great idea.

It should be the showcase for the best of Irish beef. The quality of the beef shouldn’t be adulterated with inferior quality ie anything less than R and over 36mts should be excluded.

These ‘labels’ are there to promote and to a certain extent, increase the exclusivity of the product...in other words promote the best quality beef to come from Ireland. When did any of ye on here go to your butcher and ask for a steak from a 12yr old Pgrade Jersey cross...?

If the farmers that produce the best of beef are proud of their product and it’s provenance, then by all means show the pride and quality to the consumers by marketing this ‘pride’.

For the dairy farmers that think a weeks milk is more important than producing an animal that can achieve the quality of beef to attain the standard of PGI, then maybe they should go and develop a PGI for Irish kebab meat?

*All depends on the farmer getting the premium into their pockets!

Well said and I don’t think there’s any valid argument against any of the points you’ve made.

Markcheese

DBK1 wrote: »

Well said and I don’t think there’s any valid argument against any of the points you’ve made.

I don't think I'd have an age limit , if there's strict rules on traceability and feed , and you've stuck with them for ,say ,12 years of a cows life,and have a well finished cow , then by all means you should be able to use the phrase grass fed ..

It's all gonna be down to definitions ,
Grass finished ? Grass fed ?
Personally I'm still beating the organic drum ,but it's just another system and wouldn't suit everybody,

K.G.

Mooooo wrote: »

Tbh unless there is a way in which some part of any extra margin is guaranteed back to the farmer I doubt it will be long surviving. No harm at all to try something but at the end of the day cost of living is always rising and we will be getting to a point where the next or early current generation won't be taking money from the job to keep farms going anymore, time or money or both won't be there to do it.

and heres the nub,unless you have the shopper or the eater saying i want "grass fed irish beef"and prepared to pay more for it this designation will make zero difference.this designation would be great if we were selling at a premium and needed that premium protected but it aint going to add one cent to the price of irish beef

K.G.

Buford T. Justice XIX wrote: »

No, you're spot on.

And then add in the cost of an extra 5 or 6 days longer gestation before the cow starts milking and add another couple of days again before she goes back in calf and the cow can easily slip 2 weeks between one year and the next. And start the same cycle again the next lactation.

For me anyway, the continental beef bull used would want to be bringing in over 300+ euro extra over the friesian/AA calf for me to justify using one on my cows.

nothing would make me use a continental breed on dairy cows.i try to buy the best hereford bull i can but thats as far as i ll go

alps

K.G. wrote: »

and heres the nub,unless you have the shopper or the eater saying i want "grass fed irish beef"and prepared to pay more for it this designation will make zero difference.this designation would be great if we were selling at a premium and needed that premium protected but it aint going to add one cent to the price of irish beef

It may not increase the price of the qualifying beef, but it sure as hell will mean a reduction in price of the non qualifying beef....

And when the non qualifying beef may largely be the genuine "grass fed" product...this scheme is robbing the good name from much ofthe product...

But thats OK.....its only dairy stuff....and the dairy lads are doing fine already...


No issue whatsoever being left out of a PGI status....but taking the identity of grass fed from dairy product is definitively wrong

Castlekeeper

K.G. wrote: »

nothing would make me use a continental breed on dairy cows.i try to buy the best hereford bull i can but thats as far as i ll go

On average Herefords have poorer confirmation, longer gestation, and harder calving, than some continental's but of course you can still get good strains but you'd pay well for them.

Water John

Even if it only takes a minority of the beef supply, and that's what it should be to give it exclusivity, it's a good thing. We have 28 matured Angus and Hereford already. Marks it out for a premium.
The 'Grass Fed' element should be kept, very high. If that makes it more of a seasonal product, so be it. Lots of food have that element. Don't think any P grade ends up in the retail trade.

Castlekeeper

Water John wrote: »

Even if it only takes a minority of the beef supply, and that's what it should be to give it exclusivity, it's a good thing. We have 28 matured Angus and Hereford already. Marks it out for a premium.
The 'Grass Fed' element should be kept, very high. If that makes it more of a seasonal product, so be it. Lots of food have that element. Don't think any P grade ends up in the retail trade.

I don't know anything about butchering but I thought the main difference within the EUROP grades was yield per hook and then the size of certain cuts but not taste quality per se?

This PGI sounds like a typical generic Irish sham effort, trying to replicate Kerrygold I supoose, the one good idea that they pulled off in 100 tears.