Beginner Strength Programmes

Cill94

One of the most common posts I see on here is people looking for advice on a programme to do, or feedback on a programme they've put together themselves (they're usually crap - sorry guys).

Thought I'd just make a thread with some links to well-established beginner programmes so people can be easily referred. Feel free to suggest any I missed.


NOTE: Yes, there are dozens of arguments to be made about which of these is best, and I certainly have my own opinions. It really doesn't matter too much though. As a beginner, you're best off just picking the one that appeals to you most and that you will do consistently with great effort.


PROGRAMMES


Starting Strength


5/3/1


Greyskull LP


Ivysaur


GZCL LP


Westside for Skinny Bastards


StrongLifts 5x5

alphaLaura

Stronger By The Day is worthy of a mention (https://www.strongstrongfriends.com/)

Cill94

alphaLaura wrote: »

Stronger By The Day is worthy of a mention (https://www.strongstrongfriends.com/)

I think it'd be best to share things that aren't behind a paywall.

Programme could be very good but none of us can see it.

Mellor

Cill94 wrote: »

Programme could be very good but none of us can see it.

It could be good.
But I’d highly doubt it’s any better than the examples in the OP. Which means it’s not worth the money.

Cill94

Mellor wrote: »

It could be good.
But I’d highly doubt it’s any better than the examples in the OP. Which means it’s not worth the money.

Agreed!

Dtp1979

Always worth a mention
https://touch.boards.ie/thread/post/92687179

alphaLaura

Cill94 wrote: »

I think it'd be best to share things that aren't behind a paywall.

Programme could be very good but none of us can see it.

Apologies, didn't realise links should be to free programs. They do have a free sample week if anyone wanted to take a peek.

Nothing at all against those linked to already - have given a couple a try in the past and they all do the job

Cill94

Dtp1979 wrote: »

Always worth a mention
https://touch.boards.ie/thread/post/92687179

Could work great but I think it's a tad generous in the assumptions it makes about a beginner's ability to understand percentages and pick appropriate exercises. Less choice is better in my opinion.

Also had to laugh at how quickly people started trying to chop and change things in that thread.

Black Sheep

A great list.

Anything there could potentially work for a beginner and they are all literally classic programs.

If I were to attempt a further analysis, my suggestion would be for a beginner to run one of the linear progression options as first choice... Greyskull LP, Starting Strength are the ones I have experience of, for example.... And then when they run out of road on that jump onto 5/3/1 or Westside For Skinny Bastards, which to me might be a teeny bit better suited to early intermediate trainees than real beginners.

Mellor

Cill94 wrote: »

Could work great but I think it's a tad generous in the assumptions it makes about a beginner's ability to understand percentages and pick appropriate exercises. Less choice is better in my opinion.

That’s fair enough.
It obviously assumes a working understanding of training. But I’d say the same about WS4SB, mad cow and a few others.
SS, SL and similar require no thinking

Cill94

Mellor wrote: »

That’s fair enough.
It obviously assumes a working understanding of training. But I’d say the same about WS4SB, mad cow and a few others.
SS, SL and similar require no thinking

Yeah to be honest the WS4SB would be the last one I’d recommend for someone for that very reason. I think the best there for an absolute beginner is 5/3/1, Greyskull or Ivysaur. SS and SL are grand if you make some alterations to them, but then that’s basically what greyskull and ivysaur did.

ShooterSF

I started stronglifts just before lockdown and started back after the gyms reopened. I'm a puny mid 30's guy a lil over weight and never been to the gym before in my life. I'm loving it as just trying to increase your lifting weight everytime is huge motivation. Thankfully my gym is 24 hour and I usually head down around 2am when it is much quieter as I was a bit self conscious when I was squatting and benching an empty bar but it was definitely for the best as it gave me time to watch videos on each workout each night before I'd go in and try and improve my form bit by bit.
Some positives for me, it's short - I can be in and out in under an hour, mid covid it's great that the whole workout is doable in one spot so cleaning everything down after you isn't as big a chore, and those days when you doubt any progress you can just look back at what you were struggling with 2 weeks ago.
Now just to clean up the diet a bit

Black Sheep

ShooterSF wrote: »

I started stronglifts just before lockdown and started back after the gyms reopened. I'm a puny mid 30's guy a lil over weight and never been to the gym before in my life. I'm loving it as just trying to increase your lifting weight everytime is huge motivation. Thankfully my gym is 24 hour and I usually head down around 2am when it is much quieter as I was a bit self conscious when I was squatting and benching an empty bar but it was definitely for the best as it gave me time to watch videos on each workout each night before I'd go in and try and improve my form bit by bit.
Some positives for me, it's short - I can be in and out in under an hour, mid covid it's great that the whole workout is doable in one spot so cleaning everything down after you isn't as big a chore, and those days when you doubt any progress you can just look back at what you were struggling with 2 weeks ago.
Now just to clean up the diet a bit

Well done. And fair play for not being afraid to work with an empty bar. In a year or two you'll be further along in your training that a guy who insists on putting more weight on a bar than he can handle and makes a show of himself squatting high and so on.

Brian?

Cill94 wrote: »

Yeah to be honest the WS4SB would be the last one I’d recommend for someone for that very reason. I think the best there for an absolute beginner is 5/3/1, Greyskull or Ivysaur. SS and SL are grand if you make some alterations to them, but then that’s basically what greyskull and ivysaur did.

What adaptations were done to SS to get Greyskull?

SL was itself an adaptation of SS, and a poor one IMO.

Mellor

Brian? wrote: »

What adaptations were done to SS to get Greyskull?

SL was itself an adaptation of SS, and a poor one IMO.

SS: is Big 4, then adds cleans and chins.

GS: is Big 4, plus chins and rows, accessory lists (bicep/tricep/shrug). It's also includes amrap sets in the last of each 5x5

Cill94

Brian? wrote: »

What adaptations were done to SS to get Greyskull?

SL was itself an adaptation of SS, and a poor one IMO.

SS => GS

3 lifts per day => 2 lifts per day

Straight sets => 2 straight sets + AMRAP set

Standard weight increases => Increases based on AMRAP performance

Power clean => no power clean

No accessories => some accessories

And a weird emphasis on neck work in greyskull.

Aside from that, the two programmes are very similar.

You’re probably right about SL. Who cares though. By the time someone is strong enough to realise its limitations, they’ll probably be stronger than most people in their gym.

Cill94

ShooterSF wrote: »

I started stronglifts just before lockdown and started back after the gyms reopened.

Well done man! The key is to find what works for you and then ride it out as long as you can. If you have any Qs along the way feel free to throw them in here as many of us have run some or all of these programmes before.

Any suitable to a nearly 50 year old? I started messing with dumbbells and really liked it.

Brian?

[Deleted User] wrote: »

Any suitable to a nearly 50 year old? I started messing with dumbbells and really liked it.

Starting Strength. Just make sure your hip and shoulder mobility is up to scratch

Brian?

Cill94 wrote: »

SS => GS

3 lifts per day => 2 lifts per day

Straight sets => 2 straight sets + AMRAP set

Standard weight increases => Increases based on AMRAP performance

Power clean => no power clean

No accessories => some accessories

And a weird emphasis on neck work in greyskull.

Aside from that, the two programmes are very similar.

You’re probably right about SL. Who cares though. By the time someone is strong enough to realise its limitations, they’ll probably be stronger than most people in their gym.

Neck work? No thanks.

Cill94

[Deleted User] wrote: »

Any suitable to a nearly 50 year old? I started messing with dumbbells and really liked it.

Any of them, as they all use the same principles. Age won’t matter much until you exit the beginner stage.

The main consideration should be which you’ll do and enjoy.

deconduo

Two more options if you don't have access to a gym/weights:

Start Bodyweight

Reddit's Bodyweight Routine

Black Sheep

Cill94 wrote: »

SS => GS

3 lifts per day => 2 lifts per day

Straight sets => 2 straight sets + AMRAP set

Standard weight increases => Increases based on AMRAP performance

Power clean => no power clean

No accessories => some accessories

And a weird emphasis on neck work in greyskull.

Aside from that, the two programmes are very similar.

You’re probably right about SL. Who cares though. By the time someone is strong enough to realise its limitations, they’ll probably be stronger than most people in their gym.

I'll play devil's advocate here, because I do prefer Greyskull LP to the SSLP.

1. Greyskull will have you squatting twice a week but only deadlifting once per week. I think on an LP, particularly towards the end when it actually gets hard, squatting 2x5 twice a week and deadlifting the third day is enough to drive progress, and in fact I'd argue a lot of people will manage recovery better with that approach, maybe particularly an older guy. On the deadlift, 1x5 once per week is the same as SS but there is a benefit to the fact that it's got it's dedicated day, you're not trying to do your deadlifts having already had to do 3x5 squats. Again, the value of this becomes clearer near the end of the LP rather than at the beginning.

2. For the upper body you've got alternating bench and press. The AMRAP final set is not such a big deal as it appears. At lighter weights you are going to be able to rep out that set early in the LP and maybe there is a benefit from a hypertrophy point of view. Most novices are not strong enough that it's going to affect recovery. Later in the LP you won't be repping out that last set anymore, so it becomes a non issue. Where maybe there is a benefit is if you stall and you have to reset you can add reps to your previous record. So if you reset at 100kg and your set of 5 bench workout at 90kg was 5,5,6 last time, then if you can get 5,5,7 or 5,5,8 then it can be a little psychological push to break 100kg when you're back to it. I pulled the 100kg figure out for example, BTW, unfortunately I didn't bench 3x5 at 100kg at any time in my LP... But anyway, getting back to the point, most of my sets towards the end of my LP were just 3x5. AMRAP on the squat or deadlift is a bad idea because it impacts on recovery too much as you go on.

3. Power clean... Meh, most people are so **** at power cleans it's hard to get worked up about it. I like power cleans but if you still want to do them in Greyskull LP you can do them before your deadlifts.

4. Accessories in Greyskull... I think for someone who is also training for physique then a little bit of accessory work can be tolerated as part of an LP. Direct arm and shoulder training... Maybe even some leg extensions and calf raises if you want a more balanced look to the lower body, as long as it's not OTT. Maybe some people don't really care about whether they 'look like they train', but I think if someone does, then something like direct arm training is necessary to achieve that look, and I'm not sure you need to wait until you're an intermediate.

5. The famous neck work... I thought I recalled it was optional, but I could be wrong. What I'd say about this is that it goes hand in hand with the accessory work. There is more of a physique orientation in Greyskull than in SSLP and the direct neck work is a way to build the neck effectively. He recommends neck extensions and neck curls with a harness. Now, I do a fair bit of direct neck work with a harness and it has gotten my neck bigger. My reason wasn't primarily aesthetic. I'm a BJJ player and I've had a neck injury. Direct neck training is completely about keeping myself pain free, and preventing future injury, as a bigger / stronger neck is usually a healthier, more pain free neck. I'd 100% recommend it provided you approach it responsibly. Almost zero impact on recovery and done very quickly. Like grip work, you can train it several times a week.

Each to their own, but I think it's actually better than SSLP by a fair margin, although I would still prefer SSLP to some other programs.

Mellor

Black Sheep wrote: »

. Now, I do a fair bit of direct neck work with a harness and it has gotten my neck bigger. My reason wasn't primarily aesthetic. I'm a BJJ player and I've had a neck injury. Direct neck training is completely about keeping myself pain free, and preventing future injury, as a bigger / stronger neck is usually a healthier, more pain free neck.

Jiujitsu was the first benefit I considered with neck work.
What did you do exactly? Any links to good resources or mini nectbroutines?

Black Sheep

Mellor wrote: »

Jiujitsu was the first benefit I considered with neck work.
What did you do exactly? Any links to good resources or mini nectbroutines?

I have tried a bazillion different options and I will tell you now that what works for me is just to alternate neck extensions and neck curls.

Neck extensions - lie on a bench, with your head off the bench in thin air. Bring your head back and then forward and through extension. It's a bit mad looking but if you want to load this movement to increase difficulty you can place a little cloth on your forehead and hold it in place with a hand... Like a 1.25kg plate / 2.5kg plate.

Neck curls - get a neck harness from Strength Shop or Spud inc. Sit on the end of a bench and, beginning conservatively, you nod your head down and bring it back up in a controlled manner. At the beginning the plate / DB / KB will swing about a bit but you get used to it.

Greyskull suggests quite high reps and I'd tend to agree that you probably want to be doing 50-100 reps total (Over 3-4 sets) at the close of a workout. The weight with the neck harness doesn't need to ever be very heavy, I would still tend to only use about 16kg.

The advantage of all of the above is that you can load the neck curl (the extension not so much) and keep a clear track of reps and sets. I tried various neck strengthening exercises that involved manual pressure and working against that, or against balls or pillows on a wall, and I just feel that it is very subjective in comparison to what I've outlined above.

I tend not to do side to side (lateral?) neck work with any weight, it just feels hard to load but also like it is unhealthy. I sometimes lie on my side and do raises, but pretty minimal. With the neck you have to really go by feel as when you're training to make it stronger you run the risk of exacerbating an existing injury if you get it wrong.

Cill94

Black Sheep wrote: »

I'll play devil's advocate here, because I do prefer Greyskull LP to the SSLP.

I get all your points. But I just don’t think it matters that much. Thousands of people have gotten big and strong on both.

I’ve trained enough beginners to know that getting caught up in the details will do more harm than good. People start focusing on finding the perfect plan instead of just sticking with something.

Also I think the neck work is warranted for certain sports. Outside of that, I’d see it as something a beginner could end up putting far too much stock in.

Black Sheep

Ah, maybe I misunderstood your previous post... I thought you were saying SS was better on all the counts you listed.

Totally agree there is little difference in the great scheme of training.

Cill94

Black Sheep wrote: »

Ah, maybe I misunderstood your previous post... I thought you were saying SS was better on all the counts you listed.

Totally agree there is little difference in the great scheme of training.

Yeah just pointing out that they all, for the most part, are doing the same things.

I do agree that if we’re taking the programmes as written, I’d slightly prefer Greyskull over SS.

Sunrise_Sunset

Is there any particular program you'd recommend for females?

I'd say I'm about to finish at the beginner level. I had been following programs made by a trainer at my gym. I'm on the third program she made for me.

Cill94

Sunrise_Sunset wrote: »

Is there any particular program you'd recommend for females?

I'd say I'm about to finish at the beginner level. I had been following programs made by a trainer at my gym. I'm on the third program she made for me.

I think any of them would be fine. Starting Strength will probably have the most resources available for how to adapt it for a female.

The main difference you will likely find as you get stronger is that you’ll need to use a higher % of 1RM then what is prescribed for men.

For example in Starting Strength, women are usually encouraged to switch to do 5 sets of 3 reps, which is heavier than the 3x5 in the standard programme.

harpstilidie

Hi folks, looking some advice please...

Looking to get back to my gym post lock down but really struggling to find a decent workout programme.

I'm male, 30 years old, and 11st 2lbs so reasonably skinny but do have a bit of belly fat that needs shifting and I've basically zero muscle!

I'm looking to build muscle and lose some belly fat along the way.

Had a look at these programmes and thinking of starting with StrongLifts 5x5. Starting Strength looks good but I've never done Power Cleans before and they look scary. Is StrongLifts 5x5 a good starting point and should I incorporate some cardio in as well in order to lose fat?

Thanks.

Mellor

harpstilidie wrote: »

Had a look at these programmes and thinking of starting with StrongLifts 5x5. Starting Strength looks good but I've never done Power Cleans before and they look scary. Is StrongLifts 5x5 a good starting point and should I incorporate some cardio in as well in order to lose fat?.

SL is probably the weakest of the options in the OP.

If you want to drop cleans. Find a modified SS format or do Greyskull LP

Cill94

Yeah the power cleans aren’t mandatory, and definitely not advisable to try teach yourself how to do them.

You could just sub them for a lighter deadlift/deadlift type exercise. Or do a different programme.

Black Sheep

harpstilidie wrote: »

Hi folks, looking some advice please...

Looking to get back to my gym post lock down but really struggling to find a decent workout programme.

I'm male, 30 years old, and 11st 2lbs so reasonably skinny but do have a bit of belly fat that needs shifting and I've basically zero muscle!

I'm looking to build muscle and lose some belly fat along the way.

Had a look at these programmes and thinking of starting with StrongLifts 5x5. Starting Strength looks good but I've never done Power Cleans before and they look scary. Is StrongLifts 5x5 a good starting point and should I incorporate some cardio in as well in order to lose fat?

Thanks.

If I can offer my POV:-

If power cleans are off putting to you it's worth bearing in mind that the initial Starting Strength novice progression does not have you power cleaning. You would be deadlifting on both your A and B day for the first few weeks ( https://startingstrength.com/get-started/programs ). If you ran this for 3-4 weeks then you would have gotten 9-12 workouts under your belt and be a few months in before you need to worry about learning to power clean. In the meantime, you could practice and get some video feedback. There's a ton of form check forums out there devoted to Starting Strength. Or, as mentioned, try the Greyskull LP.

In relation to Stronglifts, the main issue is that you can't continue to add weight to the bar for as long as if you were doing 3x5 instead of 5x5. Someone is going to finish on 5x5 a lot sooner than if they were doing 3x5, where they are doing several sets less a week, but still getting enough work done to drive adaptation and get stronger.

In relation to your body composition, you mention that you're skinny, are under-muscled and yet have fat to lose. This is super common, and your best bet is not going to be to try to spot diet away the fat, it's to pack on some mass with strength training and see how that looks in the mirror before deciding what to do next. It may seem paradoxical, but it's quite possible you will need to eat more than you are now, not less.

Brian?

I'm not sure why power cleans put people off. But you can do rows instead until you learn to do them.

Just add really light cleans with s bar until the technique is right. I love a power clean.

harpstilidie

Thanks for all the replies folks. Done a good bit of research this evening and think I'll give SS a go and can substitute the Power Cleans for Rows instead if needed.

Do I need to do warm up sets for every exercise or just a general warm up before my workout?

Cill94

harpstilidie wrote: »

Do I need to do warm up sets for every exercise or just a general warm up before my workout?

Yeah always do warm-ups sets.

https://startingstrength.com/training/our-warm-up-is-a-warm-up

There’s loads of articles detailing the finer aspect of the programme on the site. The book could also be worth getting.

Black Sheep

The Starting Strength app is another option for you, if you want to take the thinking out of it.

ancapailldorcha

Sorry to bump and old thread but would there enough info on the site to learn how to do the lifts properly or would you need a trainer?

Mellor

ancapailldorcha wrote: »

Sorry to bump and old thread but would there enough info on the site to learn how to do the lifts properly or would you need a trainer?

There are lots of resources online to learn how to squat, bench, deadlift, clean. And you can absolutely learn properly. A trainer will remove the effort, and get you there faster (assuming they know how to coach the lifts).

Alf Veedersane

Juggernaut Training Systems did a good series of videos for the squat, bench and deadlift that people might find helpful as well.

ancapailldorcha

Thanks both.

I've sort of made my own plan instead of the dumbell stuff I was recommended but if I get more confident I might try SS. I'm a little wary of googling this sort of stuff as if I feck something up, it's likely permanent or long term.

Black Sheep

ancapailldorcha wrote: »

Thanks both.

I've sort of made my own plan instead of the dumbell stuff I was recommended but if I get more confident I might try SS. I'm a little wary of googling this sort of stuff as if I feck something up, it's likely permanent or long term.

If you do decide to go the Starting Strength route then check out the videos that Mark Rippetoe did with Art of Manliness on the squat, bench, deadlift and press. They're comprehensive in respect to the Starting Strength approach to these lifts. I say that as it might different from the way Chad Wesley Smith (Juggernaut Training Systems) might suggest squatting, for example. So best pick an approach and stick to it until you know enough to decide for yourself.

If you don't have a coach, then if you are going the Starting Strength route then the progression usually seems to be reading the book, watching the videos and beginning conservatively in terms of weight. Video your lifts and appraise things like depth yourself as best you can. If you're brave enough then there are many Starting Strength facebook groups, reddit groups and forums which will allow you to post a video for "form check" by a coach.

I feel obliged at this point to mention that Starting Strength has a very strong community in the sense that all of the above is accessible and pretty much there to be picked up and ran with ... But on the other hand there are people who would say that Starting Strength get a lot of things wrong.

All the same, you could do a lot worse, enjoy!

ancapailldorcha

Black Sheep wrote: »

If you do decide to go the Starting Strength route then check out the videos that Mark Rippetoe did with Art of Manliness on the squat, bench, deadlift and press. They're comprehensive in respect to the Starting Strength approach to these lifts.

If you don't have a coach, then if you are going the Starting Strength route then the progression usually seems to be reading the book, watching the videos and beginning conservatively in terms of weight. Video your lifts and appraise things like depth yourself as best you can. If you're brave enough then there are many Starting Strength facebook groups, reddit groups and forums which will allow you to post a video for "form check" by a coach.

I feel obliged at this point to mention that Starting Strength has a very strong community in the sense that all of the above is accessible and pretty much there to be picked up and ran with ... But on the other hand there are people who would say that Starting Strength get a lot of things wrong.

Probably not the best place to begin as a novice, though, enjoy!

Thank you for this.

Yeah, I'm inclined to get used to going to the gym as for some reason I seem able to get up at the crack of dawn to get a session in before work. Shame there aren't meetup groups or something similar but I'll have a look on Facebook. Never thought to do that.

Alf Veedersane

Black Sheep wrote: »

If you do decide to go the Starting Strength route then check out the videos that Mark Rippetoe did with Art of Manliness on the squat, bench, deadlift and press. They're comprehensive in respect to the Starting Strength approach to these lifts. I say that as it might different from the way Chad Wesley Smith (Juggernaut Training Systems) might suggest squatting, for example. So best pick an approach and stick to it until you know enough to decide for yourself.

If you don't have a coach, then if you are going the Starting Strength route then the progression usually seems to be reading the book, watching the videos and beginning conservatively in terms of weight. Video your lifts and appraise things like depth yourself as best you can. If you're brave enough then there are many Starting Strength facebook groups, reddit groups and forums which will allow you to post a video for "form check" by a coach.

I feel obliged at this point to mention that Starting Strength has a very strong community in the sense that all of the above is accessible and pretty much there to be picked up and ran with ... But on the other hand there are people who would say that Starting Strength get a lot of things wrong.

All the same, you could do a lot worse, enjoy!

This is a great shout.

Because you will probably try do it like a lot of good coaches say and the way that works best for you is exactly like none of them but a lot like all of them.

Mr. CooL ICE

Great advice from Black Sheep.

I'd emphasise the videoing your own lifts bit. Even if you're nervous about sharing them with others, analysing them yourself will often give plenty of clues to figure out how to improve your lifts. Looking for things like bar path from a side view can easily show when something has gone right or wrong.

Cill94

ancapailldorcha wrote: »

Sorry to bump and old thread but would there enough info on the site to learn how to do the lifts properly or would you need a trainer?

One thing I'd add to what the others have said is that I think it's very important to pick a source of information and just stick with it, at least until you're quite strong on the lifts.

The amount of information out there is great but can also be paralyzing if you listen to it all, you're going to notice a lot of disagreement about what the 'right' way is. E.g. one guy says look at the floor when you squat, the other says look straight ahead. One says put the bar high on your back, the other says low. Rest assured these details really don't matter.

As long as you're taking in solid info that is getting you to do the basic stuff you can see in those programmes we have linked, you're on the right path.

I'd also really recommend recording yourself and comparing it to the source you're using to learn the lifts. I learned a lot of exercises that way early on.

ThunbergsAreGo

Does it matter which of the Westside for Skinny Bastards you do, or is latest greatest?

Black Sheep

ThunbergsAreGo wrote: »

Does it matter which of the Westside for Skinny Bastards you do, or is latest greatest?

They’re more similar than not, but I think the later ones are more customisable / orientated to field sports athletes. Slightly more volume in the later incarnations too if you work it out but of all of them my favorite was WS4SB1 and also the “washed up meatheads” template, which is kind of a throwback to 1. Best for general trainee and a bit of physique.

Cill94

One thing I’d recommend for anyone doing WS4SB is to not change the main lift often at all. More practice at the same exercise will allow you to get stronger and bigger faster.

Black Sheep

Cill94 wrote: »

One thing I’d recommend for anyone doing WS4SB is to not change the main lift often at all. More practice at the same exercise will allow you to get stronger and bigger faster.

I agree with this. I think what most people do is correct and that’s to give it at least 4-6 weeks of a run before changing lift. Worth noting that as with any conjugate program the only way to continue to progress on the main lift is if you make your assistance and accessories count. You have to use all that volume in a mindful way, with intensity and pushing each time to progress. Because those assistance and accessories are going to have to be quality work bringing along weak points to keep boosting your main lift, which is not that much volume, even on WS4SB. Not getting this is one reason people don’t get somewhere on any conjugate program, whether it’s from DiFranco or wherever.