marriage seems to be over

Hannibal_Smith

Quoting the OP herself—

He is very good with our son, and is hands on, but not with anything else at home. I feel like I'm run ragged....

We both work, we run a business together. He does work hard running the business, but so do I, and then I have everything to do at home. I literally do everything, including gardening, lawn etc. He's great with our son, but I have no help with anything else.

He does a little bit of washing up, but compared to everything I do its not exactly much.

He has so much stuff around the house, old clothes, shoes etc and I have asked him to sort through them and get rid of things, but he always has the excuse how busy he is and never does it.

My point was, a cleaner is not going to solve how he speaks to the OP. That's where the real problem is and what really needs dealing with.

Gruffalux

You get to the gym twice a week. Ye have enjoyed nights away together. Ye are both working hard. He is messy in the house. He bites back when you bite. He is a great Dad. Loves his son and minds him.

A lot of this is good and the bad parts are normal.

You admit you can be angry. There is not a lot of affection between ye. You say things. He says things. Intimacy is probably an issue. Sounds like there are two of ye in it. If you give out to someone a lot expect them to criticise you right back or do whatever is their version of not lying down like a doormat. If he criticises you he should expect you to be hurt and cross.

Get a cleaner. 3 hours a week is worth the 50 quid and they do so much in that time. Start letting some things go - his messiness, his laxness re housework. Appreciate what he does do. I honestly have no idea how people who put in huge days at work manage to do any housework or cooking.

It sounds like you love him. Recognise ye are both at this jibing and undermining each other due to stress, but maybe he is better at getting the digs in. If on your part you honestly stop all that for a good while, bite your tongue, let things go etc, emphasise the good ye have by saying it, and if he keeps up with his crap then that is completely different.

HildaOgdenx

'I am just worn out. I get nowhere with him. He seems to want me to get angry so he can say see you are nuts or that I need help. He literally frustrates me so much. I can't communicate with him as he turns every single thing I say back on me. He exaggerates so much too that I feel like he can't see reality. He blames me for things constantly. He has some sort of issue where he can't accept an answer and has to analyse things to death. He has made it impossible to be around him. I've asked him to go as I can't take it anymore. I am being worn down and I don't have the energy to put in the effort anymore. He makes no effort to work on our marriage, just blames me for all the issues we have. Its literally never his fault. He thinks he can speak to me whatever way he wants and I should just say nothing. Believe me I know I have my faults, and I get angry, but the fact he cannot accept how he acts towards me is beyond me.'

OP, I know he has said no to marriage counselling, but I think you personally would find it helpful to be able to discuss things with a counsellor, and help you to clarify, for yourself, whether or not the marriage is over.

It's about a lot more, in my opinion, than sharing of workload. It's, as has been said, about the behaviour that is being modelled to your child also.
I know that what we all have been through in the past five/ six months has put a strain on everyone. You also mention fertility issues, and that's something that can put a lot of pressure on relationships too.

In relation to employing a cleaner, yes, that might help a bit. If there's a lot of mess around, that would have to be cleared up, so that the cleaner can clean.

As I said, I think it's a lot deeper than that.

Have a look at this link, and find yourself a counsellor. Most are providing sessions via zoom / Skype if they are not yet seeing clients face to face. Take care.
https://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2057956018

AndrewJRenko

I wonder if part of the problem is the challenge of working together as well as living together. I know I couldn't do it, and work provides an alternative outlet, different people, different conversations. Is there an option to keep work and home life more separate? Perhaps one or other could drop out of the business and leave the other to take full ownership of this?

LegacyUser

AndrewJRenko wrote: »

I wonder if part of the problem is the challenge of working together as well as living together. I know I couldn't do it, and work provides an alternative outlet, different people, different conversations. Is there an option to keep work and home life more separate? Perhaps one or other could drop out of the business and leave the other to take full ownership of this?

Its not really an option for either of us to drop out of the business. We have both worked hard to keep the business from going under (back in the last recession) and we sacrificed a LOT to keep it afloat. I'm used to us working together, it doesn't bother me that much and its not the issue, although it can spill into it from time to time, but its home life that I find the biggest issues arise.

LegacyUser

kaymin wrote: »

You need to stop criticising him if he is going to want to display care. He's been working way more hours than you and then comes home to criticism. Is giving out about the extra shoes lying around really worth it when you know the effect your criticism has on him?. He responds in kind leading to a downward spiral. Yes he should let you tidy them up if that's what you want to do. Clearly he has his faults as does everyone.

It takes the bigger person to acknowledge their faults and if you were willing to take that step then he might reciprocate and both of you can see things from each others perspectives. You don't want the marriage to end - there's no indication he does - he's just frustrated at the constant criticism and wants an easier life. He's unlikely to want to be affectionate until the criticism stops.

Do you want to create a happy home or a spotless home? Yes its a gross simplification but a question you might ask yourself when interacting with your husband.

I know men think women just nag, but that's not what I feel I am doing. I don't keep criticising him or telling him to move his shoes. I don't go on about the small things around the house, Its not day to day 'please tidy up' stuff. I have said to him about clearing out wardrobes full of old clutter and clearing the attic or garage. I can assure you I don't say it on a daily basis, I probably don't say it on a monthly basis. Its just when I suggest we do a clear out etc I get the reluctance. I have tried to suggest I would do the clear out of his old clothes etc, but I then get told not to touch anything. If I have tried to he doesn't like it and I wish I hadn't bothered to help.

I take on most tasks around the house, if I don't it won't get done. I could wreck his head about it and be the nagging wife, but that isn't the case. I don't expect him to do loads around the house, just help on some things...especially cooking, which I hate with a passion! I would love to come home and have someone make me dinner for a change, but the only time that happens is when we get a take-away!

Having someone do things for you without being asked is nice, and I feel taken for granted.

I may sound like I am nagging him, but this isn't what this is about. Men also need to realise that its not a woman's job to look after the home and why should we?

LegacyUser

HildaOgdenx wrote: »

'I am just worn out. I get nowhere with him. He seems to want me to get angry so he can say see you are nuts or that I need help. He literally frustrates me so much. I can't communicate with him as he turns every single thing I say back on me. He exaggerates so much too that I feel like he can't see reality. He blames me for things constantly. He has some sort of issue where he can't accept an answer and has to analyse things to death. He has made it impossible to be around him. I've asked him to go as I can't take it anymore. I am being worn down and I don't have the energy to put in the effort anymore. He makes no effort to work on our marriage, just blames me for all the issues we have. Its literally never his fault. He thinks he can speak to me whatever way he wants and I should just say nothing. Believe me I know I have my faults, and I get angry, but the fact he cannot accept how he acts towards me is beyond me.'

OP, I know he has said no to marriage counselling, but I think you personally would find it helpful to be able to discuss things with a counsellor, and help you to clarify, for yourself, whether or not the marriage is over.

It's about a lot more, in my opinion, than sharing of workload. It's, as has been said, about the behaviour that is being modelled to your child also.
I know that what we all have been through in the past five/ six months has put a strain on everyone. You also mention fertility issues, and that's something that can put a lot of pressure on relationships too.

In relation to employing a cleaner, yes, that might help a bit. If there's a lot of mess around, that would have to be cleared up, so that the cleaner can clean.

As I said, I think it's a lot deeper than that.

Have a look at this link, and find yourself a counsellor. Most are providing sessions via zoom / Skype if they are not yet seeing clients face to face. Take care.
https://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2057956018

Thanks, I am going to definitely look into talking to someone. I did go to a counsellor about 13/14 years ago so its been a long time. I feel it may help me as I am finding myself getting more and more frustrated and unhappy. I have had a lot to deal with because of the fertility issues I have had and its upsetting me again recently as I feel like I have run out of time to have another. I know he can't really understand how, as a woman, it can make us feel when we have these types of issues. Thankfully we didn't have to deal with any miscarriages or losses, but not being able to naturally conceive was very stressful, especially me as I had to deal with it month after month for years before we did any fertility treatment. I probably should have gone to counselling at the time, but it wasn't suggested. After we had our baby, I think I had some form of post-natal depression, although I don't think it was severe, I do think I had it and that it is part of the issues we have now. I don't think he understands that side of things, or at least I don't think he can empathise with me.

LegacyUser

Gruffalox wrote: »

You get to the gym twice a week. Ye have enjoyed nights away together. Ye are both working hard. He is messy in the house. He bites back when you bite. He is a great Dad. Loves his son and minds him.

A lot of this is good and the bad parts are normal.

You admit you can be angry. There is not a lot of affection between ye. You say things. He says things. Intimacy is probably an issue. Sounds like there are two of ye in it. If you give out to someone a lot expect them to criticise you right back or do whatever is their version of not lying down like a doormat. If he criticises you he should expect you to be hurt and cross.

Get a cleaner. 3 hours a week is worth the 50 quid and they do so much in that time. Start letting some things go - his messiness, his laxness re housework. Appreciate what he does do. I honestly have no idea how people who put in huge days at work manage to do any housework or cooking.

It sounds like you love him. Recognise ye are both at this jibing and undermining each other due to stress, but maybe he is better at getting the digs in. If on your part you honestly stop all that for a good while, bite your tongue, let things go etc, emphasise the good ye have by saying it, and if he keeps up with his crap then that is completely different.

Thanks. Your post is pretty much what I'm trying to explain! I think its like with kids, know when to pick your battles and what isn't worth the hassle! I need to let go of some things that just aren't worth having a row over!

Gruffalux

heneverlistens wrote: »

Thanks. Your post is pretty much what I'm trying to explain! I think its like with kids, know when to pick your battles and what isn't worth the hassle! I need to let go of some things that just aren't worth having a row over!

Honest to god knowing which battles to pick and which to sidestep is one of the secrets to life. Plus, every home needs one fvuking eegit is another of life's secrets. Once you accept that things improve vastly. We have 2 bathrooms for example. Since the kids left home he has one and I have the other. I clean mine. Like, obviously! He grows new life forms in his, until spurred into feverish cleaning bursts when even he is ashamed of it. This for me is the empirical proof that if I was not the fcuking eegit in our home we would be living in a mud-encrusted hovel full of dust-covered eccentric junk. Meh. The scales balances in different ways. How your fella minds his boy is a big plus, for example.
Still....keep an eye on him talking nasty if he does. Just calmly point it out every time. But keep an eye.

redfox123

heneverlistens wrote: »

I know men think women just nag, but that's not what I feel I am doing. I don't keep criticising him or telling him to move his shoes. I don't go on about the small things around the house, Its not day to day 'please tidy up' stuff. I have said to him about clearing out wardrobes full of old clutter and clearing the attic or garage. I can assure you I don't say it on a daily basis, I probably don't say it on a monthly basis. Its just when I suggest we do a clear out etc I get the reluctance. I have tried to suggest I would do the clear out of his old clothes etc, but I then get told not to touch anything. If I have tried to he doesn't like it and I wish I hadn't bothered to help.

I take on most tasks around the house, if I don't it won't get done. I could wreck his head about it and be the nagging wife, but that isn't the case. I don't expect him to do loads around the house, just help on some things...especially cooking, which I hate with a passion! I would love to come home and have someone make me dinner for a change, but the only time that happens is when we get a take-away!

Having someone do things for you without being asked is nice, and I feel taken for granted.

I may sound like I am nagging him, but this isn't what this is about. Men also need to realise that its not a woman's job to look after the home and why should we?

If it seems like you never or rarely ask then how come you are arguing all the time? How does it start, and they don’t sound one off, as your levels of stress and frustration at him are very high going by your OP.

When I said take the energy you are investing in getting him to change and focus on yourself I meant all the frustration you’re feeling at him too. It’s all directed at him. That is a lost cause, it will make him worse. Again you cannot change someone. You can change you, or how you deal with a situation. If you don’t actually say it he will sense it, it’s bleeding into your affection as a couple, there is none.

If you’re exhausted and don’t want to cook for him and he never does for you, well then just get food for yourself! Look after yourself, full stop. You’re right, why should you do everything? Leave him to it. Stop doing the same things over and over and expecting a different reaction or different habits from him. If he says anything about why you won’t cook for him leave the room, say I asked you to cook sometimes, you won’t so this is only fair.

If he really wanted to or has to change he would.

I don’t know what business you’re in but do you think if a client or customer wanted to sit down and discuss a large deal involving money, he would have these ‘listening’ or ‘communication issues’? Hell no he wouldn’t. He would listen and discuss all day. He is choosing not to with you because doesn’t WANT to, there’s nothing in it for him except having to do more work around the house.

So stop doing things except for you and the child. Imagine how life would be without him there and act accordingly because you have tried communicating with him and it’s a lost cause. So change the actions not the words. Make yourself happy don’t rely on him, and when he sees how happy you are it might just change his behaviour towards you.

Lovestolisten

This is going to sound like psychoanalysis of you and the relationship but have you lost 'yourself' in the past 17 years?

The tone seems to be a lot of 'he does this' 'he doesn't do that'

This is an opportunity for you to look at where you are right now.
You have pointed out that you are run ragged and feel like it's the end, but it's not the end of you as a person.
Your relationship and marriage is only a percentage of who you are as a person.

You have unique thoughts and ideas, you have your own sense of identity, you have your own interest, motivation, intelligence, communication style, personality. These are all things that have nothing to do with being a wife or mother. Things that your husband cannot take, wreck or change.
These are your traits that you own for yourself. Build on that.

Get a diary and write down each day if you have time how you feel about yourself Nothing about your husband and what he has done.

Short lines or big long meandering paragraphs, whatever the time or mood allows.
Own yourself and your life.
Its a cliche but why are you allowing another person control who you are as person, control your happiness and ultimately make you feel run ragged?

If you have to, run the house yourself, raise your child let him be the good father but don't let him be the bad husband.
He can only be a bad husband if you let him control your emotions.

All easier said than done but it takes time, it takes effort and after 17 years some part of you will be conditioned to feel and act in certain ways.
It might be time to start undoing those learned behaviours.

Any books by Melody Beattie are good starting points, don't be put off by the theme of alcoholism as the root of the problems she is addressing in the book, it's the overall theme of the damage codependency can have on us and how we can rebuild and break free.

I'm definitely not saying run out and get divorced, you can divorce the man but you can divorce the mindset your left with.
Build yourself up first and then reflect on where you are.

"He has some sort of issue where he can't accept an answer and has to analyse things to death" - This stood out to me. My wife is on the autistic spectrum and she is like this. It can be sometimes EXTREMELY frustrating discussing anything with her, as she will often fixate on one small irrelevant detail (not irrelevant to her though) and bang on about that for hours, until you lose the will to live. For example, if I have loaded the dishwasher 99 times and she did it once, she will say "we both unload the dishwasher". If she does something 10 times and I did it 9 she will say "I always do X". So she phrases things that seem to always put her in the best light - i.e. from her perspective. She has extreme difficulty seeing things from anyone else's perspective other than her own.

However she isn't a selfish person at all, she will happily do selfless things to make me or other people happy.

It took me going to the point of divorce for her to get it checked out. I knew for years something was wrong but the diagnosis made so much sense.

I don't know if this is the case with your husband, but let me tell you it isn't good for your blood pressure.